57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Cantina]

There were many issues with Dragon Age 2, what made the game so bad was the fact they were trying to take the game in a different direction. The truth however is the game did not need to be taken in a different direction. All the things in Origins, such as the number of choices you made DID have an impact, the characters, the stories, being able to speak to your companion anywhere. Then when you remove all that and have something completely different it makes you scratch your head and wonder, “What the hell happen to the Dragon Age I feel in love with?”

I only broke down and played Dragon Age 2 because Anders was in the game. However even though he was in the game, I was disappointed in the direction the writers chose to take him. I do not care who set this stage up, I do not care who wrote it, the bottom line it was a poor choice to make. I am all for people changing, but when you take someone and do a complete “rewrite” of his or her character it pisses me off. Anders had a lot of hate for the Chantry and the Templars, but I fail to see he would go so far as to let a spirit inside him. Anders was by far not stupid, I am sure he was well aware of spirit and demonic possession; I fail to see how he would be blind by these facts much less just go with it.

My theory is they had an idea of how the game was going to end and used Anders as a means to get there no matter how badly they had to cut apart his character. This is why there is no choice to stop him completely, no choice other than one direct path. Even though this path ends with your choice, it may not stick. You could save Anders but the next game the writers could come out and say, “Oh he is dead and by the way Justice is using his corpse now.”

Now if Anders was the same old smart mouth mage as he was in Awakening and then slowly descended into this path, I may change my mind. However, it is still a hard pill to swallow he would go as far as he did with Justice.

As someone mentioned you have these years cut away not knowing what happened. What did my Hawke do for three years before Act 2 came about? Did she sit at home knitting booties for her future offspring? What happened in the years following the Qunari attack to the Mage Rebellion? Sure, were told in tid bits but we never actually experience those years.

I could sit here for hours and rant on about this, especially the lack of how far I am willing to go for Mage Freedom, but there is nothing that can be done. My only hope is the next game goes back to the meat and potatoes of what made Origins the best game I have ever played.

[CuriousArtemis]

BevH wrote...

hobbit_of_the_shire wrote...

But then it makes you think, though, that if everything is clouded by Varric, then essentially DA2 is Varric-centric.  I'd like to get to know the PC better and not from another source.

I believe, and perhaps it's just me, that DA2 is essentially the story of Hawke and Anders (no matter who Hawke romances) as told by Varric. And while I liked aspects of the framed narrative, I found myself missing the ability to interact with your companions whenever you wished as in DA:O.

I think it all depends on which you played first. I played DA2 first, so when I finally played DA:O I found it a bit silly that you could just run from person to person, chatting them and getting them to love you almost immediately xD But I don't mind it so much now. I do wish we could talk to NPCs more in DA2. Just get to know them... there are the Questioning Beliefs "quests" and such but somehow it doesn't seem enough. I'm sure DA3 will be a happy medium of the two.

Although I love Anders to pieces, I don't think the narrative of DA2 is all about Hawke and Anders. It's about Hawke. Cassandra keeps pressing Varric, wanting to know how s/he became involved with this and that and so on. And I think the framed narrative idea was really neat, but the tremendous time skips really didn't work when it came to relationships and friendships, and tha'ts a problem because that's BW's strength in any game.

I think Varric's transitions between the years could have been longer. We could have seen scenes of Hawke going here and there, talking to people, being with his/her LI, etc. I think that would have worked. Maybe little scenes from each companion, Anders in his clinic, Aveline being promoted, Merrill getting to know her new neighborhood, etc..

I'm pretty sure DA3 will be the best of both worlds. And if Anders shows up I will be tickled pink  He of course makes it through every one of my playthroughs; even Eirik Hawke, staunch Circle supporter (but not necessarily pro-Templar), who was shocked and repulsed by what Anders did... he couldn't kill the guy. I guess I just can't help but play characters with soft hearts. Every time Sebastian starts fussing about how Anders should just die, I wish there were an option for Hawke to walk up to him and give him a little slap and say, "Hush, you!" LOL Even though, yes, Sebastian's anguish makes perfect sense, I know, I know xD

Modifié par motomotogirl, 12 octobre 2012 - 08:56 .

[Cantina]

motomotogirl wrote...

Every time Sebastian starts fussing about how Anders should just die, I wish there were an option for Hawke to walk up to him and give him a little slap and say, "Hush, you!" LOL Even though, yes, Sebastian's anguish makes perfect sense, I know, I know xD

Hell with a slap, I wanted to throw a dagger at the back of his head as he is walking away. Cannot stand Seabass.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

I wouldn't mind Sebastian throwing a hissy fit (which quite frankly, was damn hilarious. (Maker noooooooooo...)) after all he did just lose his home and mother-figure.

What I take issue with (other than his entire personality) is the fact that after insisting that Hawke kill Anders (again making him/her do his dirty work for him, because Maker forbid you actually get your hands dirty with your own murders, eh Chantry boy?) he vows to bring an army and level the city.
The city full of innocent people who never did anything wrong. The city that's already crippled and falling apart.
Disproportionate Retribution, much!?

Honestly, you want him dead that much just (try to) kill Anders yourself. Heck, he probably wouldn't try to stop Sebastian.
Oh, wait. I forgot that Sebastian is a spineless hypocritical coward. Whoops!

[Cantina]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

I wouldn't mind Sebastian throwing a hissy fit (which quite frankly, was damn hilarious. (Maker noooooooooo...)) after all he did just lose his home and mother-figure.

What I take issue with (other than his entire personality) is the fact that after insisting that Hawke kill Anders (again making him/her do his dirty work for him, because Maker forbid you actually get your hands dirty with your own murders, eh Chantry boy?) he vows to bring an army and level the city.
The city full of innocent people who never did anything wrong. The city that's already crippled and falling apart.
Disproportionate Retribution, much!?

Honestly, you want him dead that much just (try to) kill Anders yourself. Heck, he probably wouldn't try to stop Sebastian.
Oh, wait. I forgot that Sebastian is a spineless hypocritical coward. Whoops!

Don't forget the best part about Seabass is you can marry him and never have sex! Awesome, right? Right?


When Seabass says "Why are we debating the Right of Annulment when the monster who did this is right here. I swear to you, I will kill him!"

First of all I laughed my ass off the first time I heard this and every time after. Second if my character had the chance, she would have told him "Right, you try to kill him and you'll be kissing the Maker's feet before you blink."

Hey if Seabass thought of the Grand Cleric as his mom, well he must have been desperate, that woman deserved what she got. Stupid dumb bent.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Cantina wrote...

Don't forget the best part about Seabass is you can marry him and never have sex! Awesome, right? Right?

That part didn't really bother me so much. I personally would be fine dating a completely asexual person and never having sex with them... but that's just me.

It doesn't matter anyway because no DA2 love-interest can match Anders and his smirk.<3

When Seabass says "Why are we debating the Right of Annulment when the monster who did this is right here. I swear to you, I will kill him!"

First of all I laughed my ass off the first time I heard this and every time after. Second if my character had the chance, she would have told him "Right, you try to kill him and you'll be kissing the Maker's feet before you blink."

I never believed he would do it. I don't think Hawke took him seriously either.

Hey if Seabass thought of the Grand Cleric as his mom, well he must have been desperate, that woman deserved what she got. Stupid dumb bent.

I could have liked her. She seemed to be hellbent on remaining neutral and I liked that.
But then we had these problems:
1) Petrice.
2) Petrice, for Andraste's sake! Who the hell in their right minds gives that xenophobic LUNATIC a PROMOTION!?!
3) The way she talked down to everybody.
4) Part of her job was to keep Meredith under control, and she downright refused to do so.


Oh, and I believe this to be appropriate:

Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 13 octobre 2012 - 11:46 .

[Cantina]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

I could have liked her. She seemed to be hellbent on remaining neutral and I liked that.
But then we had these problems:
1) Petrice.
2) Petrice, for Andraste's sake! Who the hell in their right minds gives that xenophobic LUNATIC a PROMOTION!?!
3) The way she talked down to everybody.
4) Part of her job was to keep Meredith under control, and she downright refused to do so.

I would not go that far and say she was neutral. She clearly supported the Templars but refused to come out and say so, knowing IF she did sh!t would hit the fan. But it did so anyways.

Also I beleive the reason why the Grand Cleric refused do anything was because she was the one who gave Meridith her promotion to Knight Commander. Kind of makes you look like an ass when you demote the person you promoted, no? LOL!

[Gyrefalcon]

mmachvz wrote...

Thanks! Well I'm sort researching right now and made realize that the Ander pepz could possibly be armaic? I've search images and some actually has Anders features except the hair (or wait he sometimes resembles the germans or slavics...his face is very difficult to decipher T_T) And yea, I agree with you about the savannah-african thingy, logic seems to go that way; or if Antiva is somewhat the same to italy/mediterreanean then mongolian anderfels is quite possible...Maybe Thedas rotate/position/whatever diffrently than earth....geography is making my head hurt.... But thanks berelinde, think i'll go for mongolia now. ))

I have not posted a pic in too long and have forgotten how.  :/  But if you copy the link below, it should get you my photo album and a helpful image of an Anders look-alike posted by another Anders forum member previously.  But I could not tell you on which of the pages it is so I uploaded it again here.  If someone else knows the page, I will edit this and substitute that in.  I do not claim any rights to the image, but I do think it will help you in determining a rough heritage type to draw on.  As for the Anderfels, I had the impression it was mountainous.  I would agree with the Mongol steppes assessment.  It is a harsh place, poor soil, likely a land of stark beauty.  I believe Anders mentioned it had a giant statue of Andraste carved into one of the mountains in Awakenings.  (Or it may be fan-fic, too close for me to call!)  We do know his parents were threatened with jail if they tried to contact him, which means they asked if they could stay in touch, or at least his mother wanted to.  And we know she either pressed her hand-embroidered pillow into his hands before they took him away or he took one himself to remember him by.  That's about all I have for you.

http://social.biowar.../1298090/233398

(Could someone refresh us in how to do a proper image insert?  Thanks.)

[Nilfalasiel]

Gyrefalcon wrote...

I believe Anders mentioned it had a giant statue of Andraste carved into one of the mountains in Awakenings.  (Or it may be fan-fic, too close for me to call!)

That's actually in the Codex entry for Anderfels in DAO.

We do know his parents were threatened with jail if they tried to contact him, which means they asked if they could stay in touch, or at least his mother wanted to.

Didn't know about that one. Where is this from? 

As for the image, you'd need its entire name, including the extension (.jpg, .png, .bmp or w/e; just right-click on it and look up Properties), and then put image tags around it ([ img] [/ img] without the extra spaces).



Like so.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 15 octobre 2012 - 09:53 .

[Gyrefalcon]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Gyrefalcon wrote...

I believe Anders mentioned it had a giant statue of Andraste carved into one of the mountains in Awakenings.  (Or it may be fan-fic, too close for me to call!)

That's actually in the Codex entry for Anderfels in DAO.

We do know his parents were threatened with jail if they tried to contact him, which means they asked if they could stay in touch, or at least his mother wanted to.

Didn't know about that one. Where is this from? 

As for the image, you'd need its entire name, including the extension (.jpg, .png, .bmp or w/e; just right-click on it and look up Properties), and then put image tags around it ([ img] [/ img] without the extra spaces).


Like so.

Ah, thanks!  I would suggest the Dragon Age Wiki to get easier access to some of the information for writing about the Anderfels.  I had to have seen it there because I can't imagine I remembered it from DA:  Origins.  Ha ha ha.  Anyway, I am doing a bit of inference.  Anders himself says, in a rather bitter tone, that if you try to get in touch with mages they threaten to throw you into prison.  It sounded very much like he was actually drawing off of his own personal experiences.  It may also be that the voice actor delived the line especially well.  But we have that and the personal object made by Anders mother.  I have not seen ANY other mage go on about their one trinket from home as though this were a survival tv show or The Hunger Games.  And because he cherishes it and has kept it hidden and protected all of this time, he clearly feels his mother still loves him or at least she still did then.  And he is holding onto that.  If she asked if she could go and see him at the Circle and was told no, it would not only account for the bitterness of the tone, but also for why he has clung so tightly to the one pillow, because there would be no more.

And that line makes no sense in Kirkwall as Hawke's family state that they go and visit Bethany, and fairly regularly.  Thus it was from one of his previous Circles that the rule came from.  And with all of his escapes, he does not mention ever going home.  To harbor a mage can mean death, yet he was...entertained by Isabela and she wasn't killed for aiding and abetting him, nor was the bar to our knowledge.  Add that to the fact that Anders wasn't killed on sight even after several escapes, and it implies that the Templars and the Ferelden Circle were not as harsh as the one that he is making the comment about.

That means it is from before Ferelden as he has gone to Kirkwall after Ferelden.  He spent years in the Ferelden Circle and he was entering his teens, I believe, when his powers manifested.  Given how dangerous mages are considered, I don't think they move them about very frequently.  Too much chance of them getting away.  So I would infer that it is strongly implied that this quote from him is actually about his own life experience in being taken from his own family in the Anderfels.  You are welcome to counter-argue my logic if you came to a different conclusion.  My biggest conclusion:  I really spend too much time thinking about this! 

[mmachvz]

@gyrefalcon: thanks I appreciate it! I need further reference since I was planning on re-designing him a bit. I mean, it wouldn't make sense if he still looks the same after the tolls of being a wandering fugitive. So i was hoping I could make him look recognizable but not blatantly obvious at the same time

I actually kind of liked Elthina... she was nice to my Hawke. And to me, her passivity made sense. If she sided against Meredith, it would have caused a rift in the relationship between the Chantry and her templars, which she tried to keep in bay because it may cause a sort of civil war, especially if the Templars won't heed the Chantry's authority (but still happened anyway) And it was obvious that she was incapable of making a difficult choice. She may have been a good person but it's obvious she's not a good leader. So for me, she's more like an unfortunate victim of fate. I was sad that he had to kill her but I also see why he did. I also like Meredith as an antagonist, she was a well-intentioned extremist, if the idol didn't exist she could have rivaled Loghain as a somewhat morally gray character, because some of what she says makes sense.

[Nilfalasiel]

Gyrefalcon wrote...

Thus it was from one of his previous Circles that the rule came from.

According to the Wiki, the only Circle he was ever in was the Ferelden one.

[Cantina]

Anders family IS from the Anderfels, but it is unclear if they came to Ferelden before or after Anders was born. His father was the one who contacted the Templars after Anders accidently set fire to a barn. He was then chained and dragged to the Circle Tower. Even though Anders was still a boy, he tried to escape. His most noteable escape was when he swan across the lake during a training excerise outside.

You have to remeber the Ferelden Circle is not as bad as others, nor even close as to how bad as Kirkwall's Circle become. No doubt they allowed every Mage a personal object of their choosing to take with them. Anders so happened to take his mother's pillow.  Even though the Ferelden Circle was more lenant then others, it does not however make it any less of a prison.

As for visting Bethany in the Gallows, I assume it is to do Hawke's status that allows them to visit her on occassion.

Modifié par Cantina, 15 octobre 2012 - 07:17 .

[Gyrefalcon]

Cantina wrote...

Anders family IS from the Anderfels, but it is unclear if they came to Ferelden before or after Anders was born. His father was the one who contacted the Templars after Anders accidently set fire to a barn. He was then chained and dragged to the Circle Tower. Even though Anders was still a boy, he tried to escape. His most noteable escape was when he swan across the lake during a training excerise outside.

You have to remeber the Ferelden Circle is not as bad as others, nor even close as to how bad as Kirkwall's Circle become. No doubt they allowed every Mage a personal object of their choosing to take with them. Anders so happened to take his mother's pillow.  Even though the Ferelden Circle was more lenant then others, it does not however make it any less of a prison.

As for visting Bethany in the Gallows, I assume it is to do Hawke's status that allows them to visit her on occassion.

Hmm, interesting, Nilfalasiel.  I had rather thought he was taken to the one in the Anderfels and that they were full or didn't want to deal with him so sent him on to the Ferelden Circle fairly quickly. 

Cantina, thanks for the further tidbit that Anders family had moved to Ferelden.  It makes Anders' line about 'hating that bastard' towards First Enchanter Irving make more sense.  Sounds like Irving was probably much harsher when he was younger or that he took a dislike towards the rebellious teenager, Anders.  I really have not heard Anders hate anyone else that wasn't a templar, especially when speaking of mages.  And I didn't have Anders bad experience when playing a mage in the Ferelden Circle, I rather liked Irving. 

As for Ethina, she was mostly nice, but if you talk to...Cullen or one of the other templars and talk to them about her stance on mages, one of the NPC's says something to the effect that 'it's cruel how she eggs them on into thinking they have a chance at freedom'.  It rather skewed my view of her and made me look at her twice.  If you take her words as an attempt to get the templars and mages riled up, it adds a level of creepyness to the storyline.  But overall, I think she was more ineffective.  She tried to be kind to everyone and NOT take sides, but in trying not to favor anyone, she allowed atrocities to continue that she should have spoken out against.  And the fact that she didn't reign in the Sister who was speaking out against the Qunari in her sermons implies she approved of them for she did not ask the Sister to stop or to change her tone.  So Bioware did a nice job of making Ethina seem gentle but also had the possibility of playing others as her cats paws. 

I do think Dragon Age:  Asunder helps clarify a bit of what Ethina's limits were for dealing with the Templars given how things go for the head of the entire Chantry.  But I still can't shake how Ethina is viewed by other NPC's in the game.  Clever, clever bits.

Edit:  I looked on David Gaider's Twitter feed for someone and caught this tidbit:
Susanne Saville[/b]
‏@SusanneSaville




@davidgaider Going to read this as confirmation Cullen is in DA3 and be VERY HAPPY.



Mind you someone else pointed out that David might be bluffing, but I know that another fan got to meet him for lunch some time after DA2 came out and made him aware of the huge Cullen following out there.  So I do think there is a good chance of seeing Cullen again in DA3. 

Modifié par Gyrefalcon, 16 octobre 2012 - 11:34 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Gyrefalcon wrote...

Hmm, interesting, Nilfalasiel.  I had rather thought he was taken to the one in the Anderfels and that they were full or didn't want to deal with him so sent him on to the Ferelden Circle fairly quickly.

I guess his family moved to Ferelden before they discovered his magical talents. Or, as you say, the Anderfels Circle wasn't an option for whatever reason (overcrowding, too far, the templars who took him were headed towards Ferelden, etc.)

Cantina, thanks for the further tidbit that Anders family had moved to Ferelden. It makes Anders' line about 'hating that bastard' towards First Enchanter Irving make more sense. Sounds like Irving was probably much harsher when he was younger or that he took a dislike towards the rebellious teenager, Anders. I really have not heard Anders hate anyone else that wasn't a templar, especially when speaking of mages.  And I didn't have Anders bad experience when playing a mage in the Ferelden Circle, I rather liked Irving.

I don't seem to remember that line. Is this from Awakening? It sounds strange, as you say, since Irving appears rather sympathetic in DAO and since he seems to have been the reason why Anders was never executed (as per his DA2 Codex entry), despite having escaped so many times. Then again, I guess being put in solitary confinement for a year isn't exactly a motive for endearment, even if the alternative is death.

[berelinde]

Bashful self-promotion: Kindred Spirits updated. It's a bit rough, but it seemed to add necessary perspective.

[Cantina]

Sorry double post.

Modifié par Cantina, 16 octobre 2012 - 09:50 .

[Cantina]

Anders did say that line in Awakening.

Anders "I wish the First Enchanter could see me now. I hate that bastard."

Mind you its not exactly what Anders said, but I know its pretty close too it.


Irving did NOT hate Anders, if he did, Anders would be dead or tranquil. Irving found Anders to be nothing more then a reckless (young) scamp and not dangerous. Irving liked his laid back attitude and sense of humor.



As for Anders family, I am going to assume they moved here BEFORE Anders was born and that Anders was born in Ferelden.

[Cantina]

Managed to find the line about Irving.

IF you wish to skip ahead, it is at 1:32

[berelinde]

Cantina wrote...

As for Anders family, I am going to assume they moved here BEFORE Anders was born and that Anders was born in Ferelden.

I got that impression, too. Anders seems to identify himself as Fereldan. Given his negative feelings about the Circle in Ferelden, I think that if there were any way he could claim any other nationality, he would have done so.

[Nilfalasiel]

Cantina wrote...

Managed to find the line about Irving.

IF you wish to skip ahead, it is at 1:32

Cool, thanks. Still don't know when he says it, but at least I can hear it.

berelinde wrote...

I got that impression, too. Anders seems to identify himself as Fereldan. Given his negative feelings about the Circle in Ferelden, I think that if there were any way he could claim any other nationality, he would have done so.

And yet he uses a name that idenfies him as Anders (the nationality). Would that mean that it was a nickname given the templars/other mages at the Circle? Because if it was self-chosen, it would be contradictory.

On the other hand, if his family moved to Ferelden before he was born, it would explain both the fact that he got taken to the Fereldan Circle and that he doesn't have an accent.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 16 octobre 2012 - 10:50 .

[berelinde]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

berelinde wrote...

I got that impression, too. Anders seems to identify himself as Fereldan. Given his negative feelings about the Circle in Ferelden, I think that if there were any way he could claim any other nationality, he would have done so.

And yet he uses a name that idenfies him as Anders (the nationality). Would that mean that it was a nickname given the templars/other mages at the Circle? Because if it was self-chosen, it would be contradictory.

On the other hand, if his family moved to Ferelden before he was born, it would explain both the fact that he got taken to the Fereldan Circle and that he doesn't have an accent.

In my headcanon, he was given the nickname by the templars/other mages (probably because he stubbornly refused to give his birth name) and he chooses to continue using it because it is who he has become. If that makes any sense.

Mistress Woolsey doesn't have an accent, either, and she's from the Anderfels. Just in case it needed to be more confusing.

[Nilfalasiel]

berelinde wrote...

In my headcanon, he was given the nickname by the templars/other mages (probably because he stubbornly refused to give his birth name) and he chooses to continue using it because it is who he has become. If that makes any sense.

Yeah, it definitely makes sense. I was just curious, since both options have been mentioned previously.

Mistress Woolsey doesn't have an accent, either, and she's from the Anderfels. Just in case it needed to be more confusing.

Heh. Honestly, I think the devs just couldn't be bothered creating an accent, since we only ever meet two Ander characters. Besides, I would've expected both kossith and Tevinters to have accents, and they don't. And the Dalish went from plain American to a mix of Welsh and Irish. Just about the only people who have consistent accents are the Orlesians and the dwarves.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 16 octobre 2012 - 11:50 .

[Cantina]

My guess is Anders was born in Ferelden and not the Anderfels.

I assume his parents still had a thick accent from where they were orginally from. However IF Anders was born in Ferelden then he could not aquire the accent. Or when they moved here was still to young to even maintain the accent much less keep it, even IF he had one at all.  Then again it is possiable, his father/mother was Fereldan, moved to the Anderfels then chose to come back to Fereldan for whatever reason.

While the Templars/Circle MAY have given him the nickname, it was probably do to Anders (as mentioned previous) not wanting to use his real name because it may have been the same as his father. Beyond that there could also be a possiably he chose to keep/use the name Anders out of respect for his mother. Which appears he had a close bond with her.

While Anders does hate the Circle, he does consider Fereldan his home and not the Anderfels. I doubt he would even go there do to the Warden Outpost.

Modifié par Cantina, 17 octobre 2012 - 02:27 .

[BevH]

berelinde wrote...
In my headcanon, he was given the nickname by the templars/other mages (probably because he stubbornly refused to give his birth name) and he chooses to continue using it because it is who he has become. If that makes any sense.

I don't remember if I read this in game or if I just made it up, but I think the reason Anders is called Anders is because that's what the templars called him on the way to the tower. Anders obviously doesn't have an accent from the Anderfels, but his parents most likely did, hence the reason the templers named him such. Also, it's feasible that Anders refused to give his given name and the templers had to call him something, so Anders it was.