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[Thaedriel]

Speaking of the ending...


From http://calisto-lynn....llows-278253953

I'm not 100% sure what's going on here, but it seems to be "GTFO my Anders!"

[BevH]

berelinde wrote...

Fun fact: If you can limit yourself to doing Sebastian's Act 1 quest, Duty, and ignore him completely from Act2 onward, he never shows up at the end to monopolize the Last Straw dialogue. It's hard missing out on the XP from his quests, but they're bugged to all get out by the latest patch anyway. When I do recruit him in Act 2, it's usually because I want somebody to point out that the person who did the deed is standing right there. It kinda underlines how far Meredith has fallen off her rocker.

Ah, so that's what happened. I've been trying to complete Sebastion's Act 2 quest and when I get to the demon it hangs up loading the cutscene. Ah, well, I'm like the rest here... he's not touching my Anders!  Plus, I rather laugh at him anyway. An army??? Really, Sebastian??? You've been trying for what, 6 years and still haven't gotten one??? I "tremble" in fear!

[Sable Rhapsody]

berelinde wrote...
Poor Sebastian. Every word Elthina said went right over his head. I don't hate the character. Or maybe that's not quite the right way to phrase it. I love to hate the character. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate him as a character, not by a long shot.

See, I love rivalry Seb.  He's more ruthless, grown-up, less idealistic.  A badass and stronger Sebastian who fully embraces an "ends justify the means" attitude toward apostates is IMO more likeable and interesting than sweeter but weaker and hypocritical friendship Seb.

I also sympathize with Sebastian because he ended up getting it the worst from my Villain Protagonist maleficar Hawke.

Thaedriel wrote...

I'm not 100% sure what's going on here, but it seems to be "GTFO my Anders!"

I always wondered why he didn't try to throw down right there after Anders blew up the Chantry.  I suppose if he'd attacked Anders and Hawke defended him, at least a few other party members would've defended Hawke out of loyalty.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 11 janvier 2013 - 05:35 .

[cowoline]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

berelinde wrote...
Poor Sebastian. Every word Elthina said went right over his head. I don't hate the character. Or maybe that's not quite the right way to phrase it. I love to hate the character. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate him as a character, not by a long shot.

See, I love rivalry Seb.  He's more ruthless, grown-up, less idealistic.  A badass and stronger Sebastian who fully embraces an "ends justify the means" attitude toward apostates is IMO more likeable and interesting than sweeter but weaker and hypocritical friendship Seb.

I also sympathize with Sebastian because he ended up getting it the worst from my Villain Protagonist maleficar Hawke.

Thaedriel wrote...

I'm not 100% sure what's going on here, but it seems to be "GTFO my Anders!"

I always wondered why he didn't try to throw down right there after Anders blew up the Chantry.  I suppose if he'd attacked Anders and Hawke defended him, at least a few other party members would've defended Hawke out of loyalty.

I like to rival Sebastian as well, but do it rarely. It's so much bloody work for me to rival people in this game! I am far to nice to EVERYONE.

Someone mentioned not having a problem slaying Velenna at the end and I might have to agree with that decision. Beneath his vengeance Anders is still one of the most self-deprecating people in the entire series. And though I liked him in Awakening, when Lirene told me about him for this first time I was SOLD! I have romanced Fenris two times, but I always go back to Anders and it's so hard to see him falling for you and you then choosing to be with the elf :snifffles:

Anyway got sidetracked; Velenna is just bitter and I have a hard time picturing her having the least bit og regret for blowing up the Chantry. But it still made me go "Aaaaah, so that's why!" and "And then the pin the deed on Anders? Bastards!"

[berelinde]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

berelinde wrote...
Poor Sebastian. Every word Elthina said went right over his head. I don't hate the character. Or maybe that's not quite the right way to phrase it. I love to hate the character. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate him as a character, not by a long shot.

See, I love rivalry Seb.  He's more ruthless, grown-up, less idealistic.  A badass and stronger Sebastian who fully embraces an "ends justify the means" attitude toward apostates is IMO more likeable and interesting than sweeter but weaker and hypocritical friendship Seb.

I also sympathize with Sebastian because he ended up getting it the worst from my Villain Protagonist maleficar Hawke.

Thaedriel wrote...

I'm not 100% sure what's going on here, but it seems to be "GTFO my Anders!"

I always wondered why he didn't try to throw down right there after Anders blew up the Chantry.  I suppose if he'd attacked Anders and Hawke defended him, at least a few other party members would've defended Hawke out of loyalty.

Most of them, I should think.

Most of the time, I do rival Sebastian, but he actually irritates me more that way. Having him loudly proclaiming that mages should be put down while mage Hawke is helping him gets old pretty quick. At least Fenris appreciates the irony of it.

But it's worth it for the ending. Having a hardened rival Sebastian shouting that he'll raze Kirkwall to exact vengeance on Anders and telling him "Good luck with that" is priceless!

I've got a pro-templar game in Act 3 right now, and I'm planning on executing Anders. I did the game on a bet against my sister, who didn't think I'd go through with a hypocritical dirtbag mage Hawke. I'm curious to see what Sebastian's Gallows Courtyard dialogue is like. I've never actually heard it before.

Modifié par berelinde, 11 janvier 2013 - 01:23 .

[Renmiri1]

Good luck berelinde. I did pro-templar + sebastian friendly once and was in tears after shiving Anders But is going to have a surprise at the end for you that is neat. Won't make up for breaking Anders' heart but is still fun

[berelinde]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Good luck berelinde. I did pro-templar + sebastian friendly once and was in tears after shiving Anders But is going to have a surprise at the end for you that is neat. Won't make up for breaking Anders' heart but is still fun

A surprise? Well! As you say, it won't make up for having to endure the rest of the game, but it's nice to know that something good will come of it. This Hawke isn't romancing either Anders or Sebastian. I had never done a Fenris friendship romance, so I figured this was probably as good a chance as I was going to get. I'm not enjoying it much. Diff'rent strokes, etc. But yeah, I'm finding it hard to motivate myself to play. Part of that is that I've played the game too many times to really enjoy it anymore, but part of it is that I just hate this Hawke. She is really a loathsome human being and I find myself hoping that the reason no one ever hears about her again after she has become viscount is because somebody shanked her and left her corpse rotting in a dung heap.

[cowoline]

berelinde wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Good luck berelinde. I did pro-templar + sebastian friendly once and was in tears after shiving Anders But is going to have a surprise at the end for you that is neat. Won't make up for breaking Anders' heart but is still fun

A surprise? Well! As you say, it won't make up for having to endure the rest of the game, but it's nice to know that something good will come of it. This Hawke isn't romancing either Anders or Sebastian. I had never done a Fenris friendship romance, so I figured this was probably as good a chance as I was going to get. I'm not enjoying it much. Diff'rent strokes, etc. But yeah, I'm finding it hard to motivate myself to play. Part of that is that I've played the game too many times to really enjoy it anymore, but part of it is that I just hate this Hawke. She is really a loathsome human being and I find myself hoping that the reason no one ever hears about her again after she has become viscount is because somebody shanked her and left her corpse rotting in a dung heap.

You are in for a treat then. I love romancing Fenris on friendly. On rival he is just a bitter arse... IMO

[Thaedriel]

Renmiri1 wrote...

...hoping that the reason no one ever hears about her again after she has become viscount is because somebody shanked her and left her corpse rotting in a dung heap.

Wait ... she becomes viscount? How did you manage that?

I've currently got an aggressive/direct Hawke warrior but I still haven't been able to get myself to play pro-templar. Bethany's too cute. Although I'm thinking this might be the Hawke that finally doesn't romance Anders because it's super weird listening to Bethany obsess over him. I suspect the sad eyes will win out in the end, though. 

I don't have any real interest in romancing Fenris or Merrill. I do have a male Hawke (whom I made look like Anders ) and plan on romancing Isabela with him. Can't see him going pro-templar either. Oh well!

Modifié par Thaedriel, 11 janvier 2013 - 05:05 .

[BevH]

Thaedriel wrote...
Wait ... she becomes viscount? How did you manage that?

I've currently got an aggressive/direct Hawke warrior but I still haven't been able to get myself to play pro-templar. Bethany's too cute. Although I'm thinking this might be the Hawke that finally doesn't romance Anders because it's super weird listening to Bethany obsess over him. I suspect the sad eyes will win out in the end, though. 

I don't have any real interest in romancing Fenris or Merrill. I do have a male Hawke (whom I made look like Anders ) and plan on romancing Isabela with him. Can't see him going pro-templar either. Oh well!

Yes, if you go pro-templar, your Hawke will become viscount at the end. I've only done it once myself... a "for science" run on a rivalmance Anders. I will never do it again!

[Sable Rhapsody]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Good luck berelinde. I did pro-templar + sebastian friendly once and was in tears after shiving Anders But is going to have a surprise at the end for you that is neat. Won't make up for breaking Anders' heart but is still fun

I did a somewhat pro-templar playthrough while friending Sebastian and rivaling Anders, but I actually rather liked that Hawke.  He was snarky, cheerful, and had more like a 60% rate of helping the templars rather than being 100% pro-templar.  I will never be able to get that stupid achievement.

But I still only sided with Meredith FOR SCIENCE, then went back and reloaded.  I'd never be able to play a Hawke who could actually condone murdering a bunch of innocent mages for what Anders did.  I will say that after all the angst Anders put me through in my first playthrough, it felt kind of cathartic to shiv him 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:51 .

[Renmiri1]

 ya the surprise is all templars bowing to the new viscount  which is kind of neat Fenris kiss is also awesome so another treat there

Modifié par Renmiri1, 11 janvier 2013 - 11:46 .

[berelinde]

Oh, that. Believe it or not, I'm actually a Cullen fan, so I spend a fair amount of time in that fan thread and I've seen the screenshots of the pro-templar endgame. I even did a pro-templar playthrough once before, but my computer crashed and I lost the save. My profile has the achievement. Mostly, I'm enjoying the loathing I feel for this particular Hawke. Maybe I'm weird, but I enjoy creating characters and do not necessarily need to *like* the characters in order to enjoy them. Mind you, if I could create nothing but characters I don't like (e.g. if siding with the templars were the only option), I would not enjoy it at all, but as one choice of many, I can appreciate it.

[Nilfalasiel]

Oh, I love the hyper-protective Hawke from the ToP pic: "MY MAGE! Hands off!!" Even Anders looks scared "Uhhh...honey? Would you mind terribly not holding the pointy daggers so near my throat...?"

I've only friended Sebass once, with my pro-Templar Hawke, and I'm never doing it again. In the end, he's just as spineless in both cases, but at least, as a rival, he tries to sound decisive. And yes, his spiel about razing the city just to get to Anders is priceless. Tantrum much? Don't think he'd ever have the guts to "throw down" anything, though, as Sable put it.

I've never tried any rivalmances, so Fenris friendmance (with a mage Hawke, no less) is the only one I have experience with. I quite enjoyed it, because I like Fenris a lot, but I have irreconcilable issues with the 3-year gap, so I'm not sure I'll ever manage to redo one. Besides, nothing quite makes sense to me as much as the Andersmance does, within the overarching scope of the storyline. Mind you, I've heard good things about Fenris' rivalmance, it's just that I'm not sure the man needs more aggression in his life, considering his history. Especially aggression of the emotional kind.

Damsel-in-distress Anders! That's a lovely little scene...but I don't think I'd be able to let Carver die. I've gone to the trouble of installing Sophie's Choice just so I could have him on non-mage Hawkes as well, so it would be counterintuitive. Besides, again, it just makes sense to me for Hawke to bring Anders to the Deep Roads, regardless of personal affinity: he's a Warden, he has maps, he's been there before. Practical, if nothing else.

As for Velanna being initially planned to return instead of Anders...I don't think it would've worked. Her reaction to anything non-Dalish was indifference at best, so I don't think she would've taken any interest in purely human Chantry-related squabbles. Nor do I think she would've merged with Justice. She was never about the injustice done to mages. All that mattered to her were issues that pertained to the Dalish. So much as I question the merger decision, I really think that Anders is the only person from the DAO+A crew it could've worked with. That being said, I would have had zero problems shanking Velanna at the end. Never mind DA, she's one of my most disliked characters in any videogame.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 12 janvier 2013 - 11:50 .

[berelinde]

I sometimes wonder how my DA2 preferences would have shaped up with Velanna/Justice merger. I've always had a soft spot for the mages, but I wonder if I would have as many pro-mage playthroughs with such an unsympathetic character as the spokesperson. It would have been very, very different. On a character level, my Hawkes would have had a harder time dealing with a person with a ground state of "abrasive". They would have sought any means of avoiding her, or if that could not be arranged, of thwarting her at every turn. As a player on a meta-game level, I would have had no difficulty siding with the templars if it meant ridding the world of her.

But, if Velanna had taken Merrill's place, possibly with Justice on board, and if Anders had remained just Anders and had led the mage rebellion as a normal, unpossessed spirit healer... It would have been a different game, but it might have been entertaining. Don't get me wrong! I adore Merrill and I'm glad she's in DA2, but Velanna in that role would have definitely changed some things around.

[cowoline]

berelinde wrote...

I sometimes wonder how my DA2 preferences would have shaped up with Velanna/Justice merger. I've always had a soft spot for the mages, but I wonder if I would have as many pro-mage playthroughs with such an unsympathetic character as the spokesperson. It would have been very, very different. On a character level, my Hawkes would have had a harder time dealing with a person with a ground state of "abrasive". They would have sought any means of avoiding her, or if that could not be arranged, of thwarting her at every turn. As a player on a meta-game level, I would have had no difficulty siding with the templars if it meant ridding the world of her.

But, if Velanna had taken Merrill's place, possibly with Justice on board, and if Anders had remained just Anders and had led the mage rebellion as a normal, unpossessed spirit healer... It would have been a different game, but it might have been entertaining. Don't get me wrong! I adore Merrill and I'm glad she's in DA2, but Velanna in that role would have definitely changed some things around.

I agree. I adore Merrill, but having Velenna/Justice would have been interresting. Especially if we got to keep Anders. Alas unless we travell to a different dimension where Bioware did this. We will never know.

[Nilfalasiel]

berelinde wrote...
But, if Velanna had taken Merrill's place, possibly with Justice on board, and if Anders had remained just Anders and had led the mage rebellion as a normal, unpossessed spirit healer... It would have been a different game, but it might have been entertaining. Don't get me wrong! I adore Merrill and I'm glad she's in DA2, but Velanna in that role would have definitely changed some things around.

Hmm...It would certainly have been different, but since I also strongly dislike Merrill, all it would've done is made me more ready to rival her.

I still don't think Justice would've had any luck at all even trying to convince Velanna to take a stand for mages in general, though.

[cowoline]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

berelinde wrote...
But, if Velanna had taken Merrill's place, possibly with Justice on board, and if Anders had remained just Anders and had led the mage rebellion as a normal, unpossessed spirit healer... It would have been a different game, but it might have been entertaining. Don't get me wrong! I adore Merrill and I'm glad she's in DA2, but Velanna in that role would have definitely changed some things around.

Hmm...It would certainly have been different, but since I also strongly dislike Merrill, all it would've done is made me more ready to rival her.

I still don't think Justice would've had any luck at all even trying to convince Velanna to take a stand for mages in general, though.

Perhaps not the mages in general, but to ****** off the Chantry? Certainly.

[cowoline]

Got a cute in game screeny and I had no one to share it with, so now you are my victims! Say hello to Mira Hawke and Anders.

[ReiKokoFuuu]

berelinde wrote...

I sometimes wonder how my DA2 preferences would have shaped up with Velanna/Justice merger. I've always had a soft spot for the mages, but I wonder if I would have as many pro-mage playthroughs with such an unsympathetic character as the spokesperson. It would have been very, very different. On a character level, my Hawkes would have had a harder time dealing with a person with a ground state of "abrasive". They would have sought any means of avoiding her, or if that could not be arranged, of thwarting her at every turn. As a player on a meta-game level, I would have had no difficulty siding with the templars if it meant ridding the world of her.

But, if Velanna had taken Merrill's place, possibly with Justice on board, and if Anders had remained just Anders and had led the mage rebellion as a normal, unpossessed spirit healer... It would have been a different game, but it might have been entertaining. Don't get me wrong! I adore Merrill and I'm glad she's in DA2, but Velanna in that role would have definitely changed some things around.

a velanna/justice and solo anders would've been interesting.....i wonder if anders would've stayed the same though, even without the merge.  after all, merrill's personality was completely rewritten from DAO.  i do love DA2 merrill though, cos although i find her attitude towards blood magic very naiive, her mannerisms are just far too cute.  her DAO personality was a little bland, in my opinion.  i would rather keep merrill and just nix the whole justice merge from the plot completely :/  i played DA2 first, and the only reason i ever took justice anywhere in awakening was because i knew he would merge with anders, and i wanted to get to know him on his own.  besides that, i didn't really find justice all that interesting....

i do agree though, had it been someone else who had merged with justice, it would've been a very different game.  maybe the writers decided to use anders instead of velanna because they really wanted to go for the mage/templar war and anders would've made more sense, since velanna doesn't really care anything except for the dalish.

[Thaedriel]

Ooh, an archer Hawke. I haven't seen many of those.

I don't think I'd have enjoyed DA2 as much if Anders was basically the same as he was in Awakening. I like him sobered up, even though that obviously went a bit far.

It's hard to imagine Awakening!Anders going so far as to plot a revolution without Justice's constant presence goading him into it. That's not a criticism: dude had a hard enough life before he even washed up in Kirkwall. I figure without Justice he'd just be glad to be able to hide out for a while.

[Renmiri1]

Awww.. gorgeous pic. Is that on the door of the Hanged Man ? I notice Anders has his "hardened" coat so he is probably sulking he can't drink as Justice forbids him of doing so in Act 3

[cowoline]

Thaedriel wrote...

Ooh, an archer Hawke. I haven't seen many of those.

I don't think I'd have enjoyed DA2 as much if Anders was basically the same as he was in Awakening. I like him sobered up, even though that obviously went a bit far.

It's hard to imagine Awakening!Anders going so far as to plot a revolution without Justice's constant presence goading him into it. That's not a criticism: dude had a hard enough life before he even washed up in Kirkwall. I figure without Justice he'd just be glad to be able to hide out for a while.

I imagine Awakening Anders would be stuck at either the Hanged Man or the Blooming Rose and we would only be seeing him from time to time:P

[cowoline]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Awww.. gorgeous pic. Is that on the door of the Hanged Man ? I notice Anders has his "hardened" coat so he is probably sulking he can't drink as Justice forbids him of doing so in Act 3

Actually it is in Gamlen's house and this is in act one (doggy scene). I just installed a new coat for him from Dragon Nexus. Supposedly this was what his coat looked like in the first drafts (you can see the colour scheme in some of the concept art). Prefer this one, as the original looks like he slaughtered a bunch of seaguls:P

Edit: For those who are interrested I have started a new fanfiction. It is unlike anything I have written before, so if anyone would give me some feedback I would be grateful. www.fanfiction.net/s/8900842/1/Do-No-Harm

It's called Do No Harm and is a horror/romance Anders/Female Hawke. (I apologize if anyonw finds it annoying that I have posted this. It is not my intention.)

Modifié par cowoline, 14 janvier 2013 - 07:51 .

[berelinde]

Actually, I wish more people would post links to their fics periodically. I don't often read them myself - at least not for non-AU romances I write about myself (I'm always afraid that I'll inadvertently plagiarize something) - but it is helpful to know what fics are out there. Because if I ever *do* finish a fic, I want to be able to go back and read all the good stuff I've missed!