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[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Anarya wrote...

Anders just makes me really sad. I can't hate him. I can't forgive him either, but I can't hate him. He's so far gone ;_;

This. It's a weird feeling. I like it.

[Magaloo]

He is a terrorist and he is a freedom fighter... he is a deeply polarizing character. The way people get so emotionally involved in all this on one side or the other just proves that the writing is excellent no matter what side you pick.

[Ryzaki]

shaneho78 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

People calling Anders a terrorist aren't dehumanizing him. They're calling a spade a spade.

And I agree with Lucy.

To the mages, he's a freedom fighter. 

True one person's terrorist is another's hero. 

Still stupid Vengeance. 

[Rinji the Bearded]

Kawamura wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

People calling Anders a terrorist aren't dehumanizing him. They're calling a spade a spade.

And I agree with Lucy.

When you apply negative group terms to people I ... begin to get nervous.

It's a difficult one.

But... he is a terrorist. He committed an act of terrorism. That's all it means.

Doesn't mean he isn't an awesome lovable character at other times.

It's... difficult. It's one of those words I'm uncomfortable with. In my personal experience, it's never been that plain of a word. So, difficult.

Many revolutionaries in our history have been terrorists by definition.  Try to think of it that way.  The fact they are revolutionaries does not change the fact that they were also terrorists.

[nyxocity]

Kawamura wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Just came in to add my 2 pence.

Props to the writers for making conjuring such emotions in me when Anders did what he did. I officially hate him, and I think I will be executing him every playthrough. Shame, for I was planning to romance him next playthrough, but now that won't be happening. Or it might, but I will have to kill him and that would be difficult. Who knew Anders to be a terrorist? It's so sad... if only we could have saved him from Justice.

Anyway, that's all, really. A true shame Anders had come to that.

Why not a terrorist? You keep pushing people into a corner, they react. Often violently.

It's a bit sad to see this word applied to him, because I've often seen it as a dehumanizer. It's not a person who is scared, or a person who is so convinced they're right, or a person that wants the world to change, or a person at all. It's a terrorist. It's no longer a human.

Agreed. I prefer the terms freedom-fighter or revolutionist in this particular case. I'll even take vigilante or paramilitary. The thing is, terrorism is often relative; it's common for both parties in a conflict to describe each other as terrorists.

BW really hit a nerve using this particular instance. Blowing up the Chantry--both what it symbolizes and the particular imagery they used--invokes a specific feeling in many people. I still don't know whether to admire their courage for going there or not. But it's effective; it's drawn a definite line in the sand between many players of the game and leaves us all with a lot to consider.

[snarkycleric]

 Here we go again... 

You know what, let's see if cats defuse the situation. It seems like the Anders thread goes in these cycles anyway. 

[Anarya]

I think the word terrorist just comes with a whole lot of baggage nowadays and people feel uncomfortable applying the label to DA characters, especially if they like the character.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Terrorist doesn't mean "bad guy." Terrorist means he committed an act of terrorism.

Anarya wrote...

I think the word terrorist just comes with
a whole lot of baggage nowadays and people feel uncomfortable applying
the label to DA characters, especially if they like the character.

True.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 24 mars 2011 - 07:39 .

[DeaHamlet]

thenyxie wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

thenyxie wrote...
Yeah, that bites. I always hate having to kill party members. I'm always "Noooooooooooo!" And then I try to go back and see if I can avoid it. 

Heh. Any canon I have at all will feature Anders as a romance. Your Hawke is very pretty! That's my Hawke I used on my first playthrough on my icon, too.

Your Hawke is so pretty.  All my follow-up Hawkettes are much more bad-ass looking and less adorable feminine stuff... ah, we shall see.
May dark skin, white hair for Anders and white skin, dark hair for Fenris?  Or the other way around?
I have such a thing for the white hair option in this game, it's not even funny!

Thank you! I was actually surprised, because while she looks feminine and pretty in the pic, in the game she manages to look tough, too. I've totally got a thing for the white hair option, too *G* Either way, I vote for contrast between skin and hair. I like stark contrast

Yeah, the contrast is so awesome.  The newest mage has dark skin (which made her brother look too hot for comfort!!!) and white short bob hair... so cute and yet so tough.  She just doesn't feel as feminine as my first mage... maybe it's the long hair or the soft angles *shrug*

[mellifera]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Anders just makes me really sad. I can't hate him. I can't forgive him either, but I can't hate him. He's so far gone ;_;

This. It's a weird feeling. I like it.

Exactly.

I'm just like "I LOVE THIS STORY SO MUCH.... FFFFFF I HATE IT SO MUCH.... YOU ARE TEARING ME APART, LISA BIOWARE"

*has more moodswings than Fenris and Anders combined*

[Kawamura]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

People calling Anders a terrorist aren't dehumanizing him. They're calling a spade a spade.

And I agree with Lucy.

When you apply negative group terms to people I ... begin to get nervous.

It's a difficult one.

But... he is a terrorist. He committed an act of terrorism. That's all it means.

Doesn't mean he isn't an awesome lovable character at other times.

It's... difficult. It's one of those words I'm uncomfortable with. In my personal experience, it's never been that plain of a word. So, difficult.

Many revolutionaries in our history have been terrorists by definition.  Try to think of it that way.  The fact they are revolutionaries does not change the fact that they were also terrorists.

"By definition" implies a very rigid idea of the word to me. I ... don't get that? I've heard it used quite often.

It's a difficult word to me. That's just how it is. I generally try to avoid it because it's very side exclusive.

[Rinji the Bearded]

We hit this depressive, morbid low every couple of days or so. Give it a few hours and we'll be laughing our ***es off about Manwich nights and how Justice is hard.

[Eydris Ivo]

RinjiRenee wrote...

We hit this depressive, morbid low every couple of days or so. Give it a few hours and we'll be laughing our ***es off about Manwich nights and how Justice is hard.

You called it a few days ago

<3

Oh the Anders thread.

[Ryzaki]

RinjiRenee wrote...

We hit this depressive, morbid low every couple of days or so. Give it a few hours and we'll be laughing our ***es off about Manwich nights and how Justice is hard.

lmao. 

Still I really do wish Justice didn't tell rivalry Hawke off. 

And then Anders just walks away all hopeless. 

[Herr Uhl]

Ryzaki wrote...

shaneho78 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

People calling Anders a terrorist aren't dehumanizing him. They're calling a spade a spade.

And I agree with Lucy.

To the mages, he's a freedom fighter. 

True one person's terrorist is another's hero. 

Still stupid Vengeance. 

The terrorist keeps on being a terrorist though. It is like how a fireman stays a fireman if you dislike them or not.

I prefer to call firemen Freedom Haters.

[Kawamura]

Anarya wrote...

I think the word terrorist just comes with a whole lot of baggage nowadays and people feel uncomfortable applying the label to DA characters, especially if they like the character.

Yes. This is the problem.

If it was more plain of a word, I would use it. But when I see it used, it's a way of shutting things down. Sorta like "unpatriotic".

It can be a plain word. But ... I don't see it used like that so often. So it is difficult.

[AtreiyaN7]

Kolotosa wrote...

When you click on the lute in the bedroom after romancing Anders, Hawke will say "Anders has many talents; playing the lute is not one of them."

I've never gotten an of the bed ambient dialog, though. Only the stupid paw prints one. Sadface.

Aeowyn wrote...

I've always played mages. Have like 8 Mage Wardens and 1 rogue that I created but got bored of. So my first and second Hawke are mages, but I'm currently playing a 2H - warrior and I'm loving it so far She is very protective of Bethany and Anders hehe

I usually played rogues, and to a lesser extent warriors, in DA:O but this time around I just can't stop making mages. They're fun as heck to play, sure, but I just get so much more out of the story as a mage, I can't help myself. I've been meaning to make a Stabby Rogue for a while but I just can't stop making mages! Is there a support group for this?

I got the lute in the bedroom, and I found his manifesto on a desk in the library (still Act 2).

[upsettingshorts]

thenyxie wrote...
Agreed. I prefer the terms freedom-fighter or revolutionist in this particular case. I'll even take vigilante or paramilitary. The thing is, terrorism is often relative; it's common for both parties in a conflict to describe each other as terrorists.

Your preferred terms don't tell the whole story, as they describe his motivations and ideals but not his methods - although vigilante perhaps touches on it.

That's the point I'm always making in here - well, one of them - that he is a terrorist and a revolutionary.

This post sums it up:

Magaloo wrote...

He is a terrorist and he is a freedom fighter... he is a deeply polarizing character. The way people get so emotionally involved in all this on one side or the other just proves that the writing is excellent no matter what side you pick.

The reason I take such issue with trying to relabel his actions as something more palatable and less divisive is because it does a disservice to the writing.  He's deeply polarizing because his objective was to destroy the middle ground, literally and figuratively, and he succeeded.

I'd have no problem with substitute words being used if I'd heard one that actually described the nature of his actions.  It'd be better to use this as an opportunity to start thinking of the term in an objective context.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 24 mars 2011 - 07:45 .

[Ryzaki]

Herr Uhl wrote...
The terrorist keeps on being a terrorist though. It is like how a fireman stays a fireman if you dislike them or not.

I prefer to call firemen Freedom Haters.

He stays a terrorist to the people he wronged and those that don't see his actions in a good light yeah. 

And we all know history is written by the victors. So him being remembered as a terrorist really depends on who wins. 

Frankly I'm sick of the Chantry. I understand the need for mages to train but imprisioning them? Not cool. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2011 - 07:46 .

[nyxocity]

Kawamura wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

People calling Anders a terrorist aren't dehumanizing him. They're calling a spade a spade.

And I agree with Lucy.

When you apply negative group terms to people I ... begin to get nervous.

It's a difficult one.

But... he is a terrorist. He committed an act of terrorism. That's all it means.

Doesn't mean he isn't an awesome lovable character at other times.

It's... difficult. It's one of those words I'm uncomfortable with. In my personal experience, it's never been that plain of a word. So, difficult.

The problem with the word terrorist is that it's become a politically loaded term. It's not just a descriptor, there is far more than the basic definition implied when the word is invoked. 



And now? I'm moving on...

Modifié par thenyxie, 24 mars 2011 - 07:51 .

[Anarya]

yukidama wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Anders just makes me really sad. I can't hate him. I can't forgive him either, but I can't hate him. He's so far gone ;_;

This. It's a weird feeling. I like it.

Exactly.

I'm just like "I LOVE THIS STORY SO MUCH.... FFFFFF I HATE IT SO MUCH.... YOU ARE TEARING ME APART, LISA BIOWARE"

*has more moodswings than Fenris and Anders combined*

I'm firmly on the side of "love" where the story is concerned but wow, is it a difficult story. Emotionally and morally difficult. If we go back to simplistic big bads I'll cry inside, though. I like to be challenged in this way.

[nenosronhir]

This is bad. I figured out how to recolor Anders' armor. 8|

So here's me playing around with a.. er... RedCross!Anders? XD

[marquiseondore]

My problem with the entire Anders's is a terrorist argument is that prior to all that he spent the last 6+ yrs in Kirkwall trying to peacefully help mages escape. The definition of a terrorist was someone who consistently causes harm to others. If the game had come out 11-12 yrs ago I doubt he would have been pegged as a terrorist.

For good or bad it sometimes takes a drastic move to advance a cause. I think it will take DA3 to fully define Anders as a madman or revolutionary.

Modifié par marquiseondore, 24 mars 2011 - 07:47 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

HAWKE HUNGRY.



WANT ONE?

[shaneho78]

Anders should have just strapped a salamander bomb to himself, get everyone to disperse while ordering Orsino and Meredith to stay put when they were arguing at the start of ACT 3 and then finally BOOM.