57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Anarya]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Just came in to add my 2 pence.

Props to the writers for making conjuring such emotions in me when Anders did what he did. I officially hate him, and I think I will be executing him every playthrough. Shame, for I was planning to romance him next playthrough, but now that won't be happening. Or it might, but I will have to kill him and that would be difficult. Who knew Anders to be a terrorist? It's so sad... if only we could have saved him from Justice.

Anyway, that's all, really. A true shame Anders had come to that.

Don't condemn him yet. Rival!Mance him. Hepler wrote in saying that if you Rival!Mance him, Anders has been trying insufferably to disconnect Justice from his head, and that in the end what happens to the Chantry was not really Anders at work - it was Justice. (Anders tries to undo it over and over again, but Justice keeps foiling him).

Its a really good romance too. But I'm all for Rival!Mance.

Really? Where did she say that? I should do this sometime soon.

[Kawamura]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Easy labels are easy for a reason. Once you start getting into more complex ideas it becomes... difficult?

That's what I've always found.

Every label is easy, because every label has a set of criteria for its correct application.

I would believe that more if I didn't get in trouble acting on that assumption.

As far as I've ever been aware, language has very, very often been subjective (outside of simple words) and words are difficult to correctly apply. And it has a way of shaping thought processes. The idea of conflicting definitions or people holding definitions differently would not get such problems in other languages.

Modifié par Kawamura, 24 mars 2011 - 08:26 .

[Sialater]

Oh, and for the record, Language is both connotative and denotative.

Claiming one invalidates the other is just stupid.

[Reverie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Is it wrong that I wasn't moved at all by the exploding Chantry other than "Wow. Big explosion. Sucks to be whoever was inside." ?  

I mean I was all like O_O for three seconds but I didn't feel anything once the cutscene ended. 

I think I might've felt more remorse if the whole rite of annullment thing hadn't come out of nowhere. Siding with the templars, cutting down those circle mages that made me sick to my stomach.

Exploding chantry with nameless NPCs and one NPC I found irritating didn't move me.

I'm with you on that. I'm not feeling whatever other people are with that scene, and it's not that scene in the game never moved me (i.e. Hawke losing theri mother - sad).

[Purposeof-Flight]

I CANNOT RIVALMANCE.
It's impossible, HE'S impossible. My rivalry with him is pretty well-established...I sent Feynriel to the Circle and didn't help the mages escape in Act of Mercy. So that pretty much set the rivalry for me.
Then I go to give him the Tevinter Chantry Amulet and pick ALL mean answers and I STILL get +15 Friendship. This is crazzzyyy.

[Ryzaki]

Sialater wrote...
Heh, thanks, Ryz.  As a Kaidan fangirl, I've seen too many trolls to count.

*Huggles*

Sorry I'm a bit bouncy, eager to give hugs and kisses and silly. You'll get used to it.  If you haven't already.  

That said. 

On the friendship path of his romance (I only did the friendship path once a while ago) can you tell him you agreed with his choice to blow the Chantry up? I know you could tell him you would've understood if only he told you (which you can still do on the rivalry path wasn't expecting that option). 

And does he still have the same "let's run away and be fugitives" speech at the end? 

I mean...I would've liked a kiss a touch on the cheek...anything. Everyone else gets a kiss.  

[mellifera]

There's a difference between saying Anders is a terrorist (as in, committed an act of terrorism) and whether or not you think his actions were justified, acceptable, necessary, pointless, deluded, criminal, etc etc.

Which is what I think Shorts is going for right now, as opposed to an argument over whether you condemn or support/condone the act and whether he deserves to die for it or not.

[Ryzaki]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

I CANNOT RIVALMANCE.
It's impossible, HE'S impossible. My rivalry with him is pretty well-established...I sent Feynriel to the Circle and didn't help the mages escape in Act of Mercy. So that pretty much set the rivalry for me.
Then I go to give him the Tevinter Chantry Amulet and pick ALL mean answers and I STILL get +15 Friendship. This is crazzzyyy.

LOL that amulet always gives you friendship not sure if it's a bug. Just don't give it to him until you've maxed out his rivalry. 

Easiest way to do that is to avoid giving it to him until act 3. Try to sleep with him before doing A bitter pill. 

[Rinji the Bearded]

yukidama wrote...

There's a difference between saying Anders is a terrorist (as in, committed an act of terrorism) and whether or not you think his actions were justified, acceptable, necessary, pointless, deluded, criminal, etc etc.

Which is what I think Shorts is going for right now, as opposed to an argument over whether you condemn or support/condone the act and whether he deserves to die for it or not.

Exactly.  Calm down, guys, and partake of a sandwich.

[EnchantedEyes1]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

I CANNOT RIVALMANCE.
It's impossible, HE'S impossible. My rivalry with him is pretty well-established...I sent Feynriel to the Circle and didn't help the mages escape in Act of Mercy. So that pretty much set the rivalry for me.
Then I go to give him the Tevinter Chantry Amulet and pick ALL mean answers and I STILL get +15 Friendship. This is crazzzyyy.

I believe I read somewhere on these boards that it may be a bug. If you are in a Rivalry relationship the gifts should help going in that direction, according to David Gaider.

[Purposeof-Flight]

Ryzaki wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

I CANNOT RIVALMANCE.
It's impossible, HE'S impossible. My rivalry with him is pretty well-established...I sent Feynriel to the Circle and didn't help the mages escape in Act of Mercy. So that pretty much set the rivalry for me.
Then I go to give him the Tevinter Chantry Amulet and pick ALL mean answers and I STILL get +15 Friendship. This is crazzzyyy.

LOL that amulet always gives you friendship not sure if it's a bug. Just don't give it to him until you've maxed out his rivalry. 

Easiest way to do that is to avoid giving it to him until act 3. Try to sleep with him before doing A bitter pill. 

Well that means I'm gonna have to turn around and reload. Awesome.
Thank you.

[HolyJellyfish]

Anarya wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Just came in to add my 2 pence.

Props to the writers for making conjuring such emotions in me when Anders did what he did. I officially hate him, and I think I will be executing him every playthrough. Shame, for I was planning to romance him next playthrough, but now that won't be happening. Or it might, but I will have to kill him and that would be difficult. Who knew Anders to be a terrorist? It's so sad... if only we could have saved him from Justice.

Anyway, that's all, really. A true shame Anders had come to that.

Don't condemn him yet. Rival!Mance him. Hepler wrote in saying that if you Rival!Mance him, Anders has been trying insufferably to disconnect Justice from his head, and that in the end what happens to the Chantry was not really Anders at work - it was Justice. (Anders tries to undo it over and over again, but Justice keeps foiling him).

Its a really good romance too. But I'm all for Rival!Mance.

Really? Where did she say that? I should do this sometime soon.

I think its at page 200. This thread moves so fast its hard to keep track of posts.

But throughout the Rivalmance, Anders is constantly struggling against Justice. In the Codex, it says he keeps having major blackouts, Justice holds his hand over him like a control freak, and Anders really can't do much.

From the Rivalmance clip of Anders blacking out and Justice taking over (The last romance scene before the Gallows, if you don't have 100% rival with him), its pretty clear that Anders wants to reverse the damage Justice is about to commit but can't.

[SurelyForth]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Own the word, ladies and gents, or it's going to be a long, LONG, string of trolls into our Anders haven.

Does the fact that I'll stop making a big deal of it the second the thread does honestly own the word make me a troll?  Because that's always been the plan.

Is this something where the majority rules? Like the moment we get a 50.000000001% Rate of Owning, we can move on to talking about  frivolous things, like how little control Anders has over his own mind and whether or not his actions were, ultimately, more humane than what the Divine would have done? Because I'm thinking about that latter one now and I'm interested in hearing other perspectives (as I am not terribly smart, and like to steal opinions for my own).

[Ryzaki]

Reverie wrote...

I'm with you on that. I'm not feeling whatever other people are with that scene, and it's not that scene in the game never moved me (i.e. Hawke losing theri mother - sad).

Nice to know I'm not alone.  

Yeah the mother scene would've been sadder if I didn't get that stupid bug where te battle music plays over her speaking. So yeah whole moment is ruined by the blaring DUN DUN DUNNN DUN DUN DUNNN "I love you dear-" DUNDUUUUNNNNN 

Bleh. Stupid bug. 

[leggywillow]

Sialater wrote...
Heh, thanks, Ryz.  As a Kaidan fangirl, I've seen too many trolls to count.

We Kaidan fangirls are indeed a persecuted people. 

[upsettingshorts]

yukidama wrote...

There's a difference between saying Anders is a terrorist (as in, committed an act of terrorism) and whether or not you think his actions were justified, acceptable, necessary, pointless, deluded, criminal, etc etc.

Which is what I think Shorts is going for right now, as opposed to an argument over whether you condemn or support/condone the act and whether he deserves to die for it or not.

It's what I've always been going for.  Because:

"Anders is a freedom fighter and I support him!" is different in many ways from "Anders is a terrorist and I support him!"  Though they're both true, so denying one or the other is problematic.

I get why people would be more uncomfortable with the latter, but that's the point of having him blow up the Chantry as opposed to say, Meredith's office.  It's the same reason people ought to be uncomfortable supporting Meredith even if they believe in the Templar's point of view, because she represents the police state.

SurelyForth wrote...

Is this something where the majority rules? Like the moment we get a 50.000000001% Rate of Owning, we can
move on to talking about  frivolous things, like how little control Anders has over his own mind and whether or not his actions were, ultimately, more humane than what the Divine would have done? Because I'm thinking about that latter one now and I'm interested in hearing other perspectives (as I am not terribly smart, and like to steal opinions for my own).

Heh, it's not like I sit here CTRL-F5 waiting for someone to dance around the terrorism thing.  People link me to this thread and point at specific posts. (Blame them! Those who shall remain nameles... anyway) I suppose I'll eventually just get bored of it either way.  Or maybe the Anders thread community for what it's worth will "own" the term.  Who knows?

That being said, I post on the subject a lot - here and elsewhere - because it interests me and as a character I like Anders.  It's not hate, really, even when it seems like it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 24 mars 2011 - 08:37 .

[Kim Shepard]

Ryzaki wrote...

Is it wrong that I wasn't moved at all by the exploding Chantry other than "Wow. Big explosion. Sucks to be whoever was inside." ?

Not at all. I read about it quite some time before the game was released (probably right after people figured out how to hack the demo), and my thoughts were, "Wow, Anders went crazy revolutionary in an act of vengeance. Awesome. He fits right in with my group of favorite characters now."

It's a game. Both sides were morally wrong at times. People side with whichever one they agree with or whatever fits the character they're playing. But neither decision is wrong. It's an option in a videogame that was made to allow us the choice...

[LastFadingSmile]

Ryzaki wrote...

And does he still have the same "let's run away and be fugitives" speech at the end? 

I mean...I would've liked a kiss a touch on the cheek...anything. Everyone else gets a kiss.  

Wait, what? Anders has been giving out extra kisses and I didn't get one? That's IT, that sucker DIES.


vvv RE: Kaidan; Plus, you've got to respect a man who's not too macho to allow himself to be slung over his girlfriend's shoulder, I guess?

Modifié par Kolotosa, 24 mars 2011 - 08:36 .

[Kawamura]

leggywillow wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Heh, thanks, Ryz.  As a Kaidan fangirl, I've seen too many trolls to count.

We Kaidan fangirls are indeed a persecuted people. 

I rather liked Kaidan.

Boringest man ever. Probably why I was so fond of him.

[Anarya]

Kolotosa wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And does he still have the same "let's run away and be fugitives" speech at the end? 

I mean...I would've liked a kiss a touch on the cheek...anything. Everyone else gets a kiss.  

Wait, what? Anders has been giving out extra kisses and I didn't get one? That's IT, that sucker DIES.

I think she meant the other LIs give kisses. I didn't get one with a friendmance from Anders.

[Ryzaki]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Well that means I'm gonna have to turn around and reload. Awesome.
Thank you.

Well you could always make up the points. 

But if you really don't want to...

I usually drag my healin ho everywhere so he's maxed out one way or the other early. 

[nyxocity]

Khali Khan wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

*snipped pic*

....

Was someone talking...?

Wanted to say something about terrorists, but I guess I'm going to drool for a while  I know what Anders thinks about locking him up, but tying him up is whole 'nother thing, right? Right? 

Tying him up is TOTALLY different *G*

I miss his earring. If Justice lets Hawke tie Anders up, surely he can be convinced to put the earring back in, right?

[dpMeggers]

Did anyone else wonder how Anders managed to remotely detonate the bomb that he planted? Or is it just me? If it was by magic wouldn't at least ONE of the templars who were hanging around Meredith notice and try to do something about it? Or were they all too distracted by...I don't know birds or something?

[Rinji the Bearded]

Kim Shepard wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Is it wrong that I wasn't moved at all by the exploding Chantry other than "Wow. Big explosion. Sucks to be whoever was inside." ?

Not at all. I read about it quite some time before the game was released (probably right after people figured out how to hack the demo), and my thoughts were, "Wow, Anders went crazy revolutionary in an act of vengeance. Awesome. He fits right in with my group of favorite characters now."

It's a game. Both sides were morally wrong at times. People side with whichever one they agree with or whatever fits the character they're playing. But neither decision is wrong. It's an option in a videogame that was made to allow us the choice...

I think Isabela and I were kind of standing back and doing this when it happened:



Hah.

[Ryzaki]

Anarya wrote...

Kolotosa wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And does he still have the same "let's run away and be fugitives" speech at the end? 

I mean...I would've liked a kiss a touch on the cheek...anything. Everyone else gets a kiss.  

Wait, what? Anders has been giving out extra kisses and I didn't get one? That's IT, that sucker DIES.

I think she meant the other LIs give kisses. I didn't get one with a friendmance from Anders.

^ Please don't kill poor Anders.  

 

He doesn't give a kiss on the rivalry mance either. Not even a caress. He could've cupped my cheek and gave me a soft smile or something.