57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...

@Ryzaki, the hardening mechanic drives me bonkers too. But I'm not referring to rivalry vs. friendship path. I haven't completed either since I haven't done his romance or had him around so as to get the numbers high enough. So in my case Anders has apparently done the deed willingly. I just don't like the idea that Hawke is responsible for whether or not he fights against Justice.

Hawke is still responsible for whether or not Fenris fights Danarius, Isabela kills Castillo, and many other things. 

The PC always is responsible for a lot of the NPC choices. This is no different. It has nothing to do with who Hawke is having sex with and everything to do with how you treat Anders. It's only natural that he would take a lover's concern for him over that of a dude he respects but doesn't get along with well. 

My only issue with your comment was the snip about who Hawke was having sex with. Struck me as overly snippy and I tend to jump on things like that. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2011 - 09:19 .

[Kawamura]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Sialater wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

The Kirkwall Chantry failed the mages by allowing the Knight-Commander/Templars to subjugate and terrorize the mages. Orsino was also to blame for his inability to guide and protect his charges.  

When we were introduced to Anders he was a revolutionary and rebel, what he did at Act 3 made him an anarchist.  Guy Fawkes, anyone?   

That's kind of where I'm with Anders.  I'll wait for DA3 to decide if I'm being too lenient or hard on him.

But Guy Fawkes failed and was executed.

Guy Fawke's was missing something.  A key component.... Hawke.

Yeah, all Guy needed was a stooge looking for friendship points.

Remember remember, the fifth of novemeber, the day Hawke finally managed to max out friendship.

I wonder what he thinks about his name being used as an excuse to blow your hand off with a firework.

You think that's bad, imagine how St. Patrick feels about being an excuse to get drunk off your ass through the whole world.

... probably pretty good, actually. I remember Catholic school.

My condolences.

Hey, if I keep drinking, I might not.

Better than the southern baptists I was with at first. Now those guys were --

Well, they were. But I showed them. Now I shtoop guys in my video games.

[Herr Uhl]

jab19782010 wrote...

I'm curious, do you consider early American revolutionists terrorists or patriots?

What I'm wondering is why they're seen as patriots by some, as what they did was against their own country.

[HolyJellyfish]

Addai67 wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...
The PC is also responsible for whether or not Isabela will betray you. whether or not Merrill will destroy the mirror. If Aveline gets married. If Fenris gets returned to his master as a slave.

The PC is responsible for all of the characters. This is just a larger role s/he plays.

Isabela always betrays you, but sometimes she changes her mind and comes back.  Merrill can sit in front of the mirror all the day long because I'm not helping her.  In these cases, apathy means pretty much the status quo.  In Anders' case, apathy has much more dire consequences.

As they should. From the very beginning, anders warns you that he is an abomination. On top of that, Anders is a revolutionary idealist who is an abomination.

That's like if one of your buddies had a really bad drinking problem and likes to race cars. You can either sit in the passenger seat with him and help that boy out, you can leave him to his own devices, or you can take the keys and say "NO!!!!".

So yeah. I really don't have an issue with the PC having to keep an eye on Anders.

[upsettingshorts]

OT: Until the Second Continental Congress, anyway.

[TripLight]

LOL @ Kawamura.
Oh, and Anders fan art dump time.

By Mistiqarts


By Syberfox


By runaire

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

In Anders case regardless of whether you help him or not, he still makes sure Elthina's last sermon is a blast.


YYYYYEAAAAAHHHHHH.......!

[DeaHamlet]

thenyxie wrote...



....

Was someone talking...?

Who did that?  I must plant myself at their feet to thank them forever for such... omg hotness!
I am flustered... and blushing... at work.  o.O  Bad thread, bad!

[Addai]

HolyJellyfish wrote...
As they should. From the very beginning, anders warns you that he is an abomination. On top of that, Anders is a revolutionary idealist who is an abomination.

That's like if one of your buddies had a really bad drinking problem and likes to race cars. You can either sit in the passenger seat with him and help that boy out, you can leave him to his own devices, or you can take the keys and say "NO!!!!".

So yeah. I really don't have an issue with the PC having to keep an eye on Anders.

I do try to help him out, but I also take him with me on mage-savey kinds of missions so apparently whatever else I say about "vengeance BAD" means squat.

I'm simply responding to the same futlity I've heard Anders fans discuss, i.e. that nothing you do helps him anyway.  So why bother?  He's pretty much a train wreck and knowing you can save a little bit of his will just so he can watch himself blow the Chantry up isn't exactly motivating to help him, either.

Modifié par Addai67, 24 mars 2011 - 09:27 .

[EnchantedEyes1]

TripLight wrote...

LOL @ Kawamura.
Oh, and Anders fan art dump time.

By Mistiqarts


By Syberfox


By runaire

This one is quite beautiful!

[Kawamura]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

In Anders case regardless of whether you help him or not, he still makes sure Elthina's last sermon is a blast.


YYYYYEAAAAAHHHHHH.......!

God. I wanted so bad one of the options Hawke says to Anders when he asks for his "potion ingredients" to be like "sala petre and drakestone? Sounds like a blast!"

And then get a nice little moment of almost justice and a nervous "hahah, yeah, right, blast, sure. hah."

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...
I do try to help him out, but I also take him with me on mage-savey kinds of missions so apparently whatever else I say about "VENGEANCE BAD" means squat.

I'm simply responding to the same futlity I've heard Anders fans discuss, i.e. that nothing you do helps him anyway.  So why bother?  He's pretty much a train wreck and knowing you can save a little bit of his will just so he can watch himself blow the Chantry up isn't exactly motivating to help him, either.

Ah. LOL

Because that small bit of his will is still his, personally I dislike "Justice" (I liked old Justice. New one is just an uptight prig with none of Justice's good points). Then again it is personal taste. I can't stomach letting him merge with Justice. Not when they both seem so wrong to me. 

Some people can't stomach having him so tormented. I guess it's just what you can bare to see more. In the rivalrymance he maybe a prisoner in his own body (for the moment) but there's always a chance he can overcome 
"Justice". With the friendship path they just...merge. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2011 - 09:30 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Since we're having the terrorist discussion again, my two cents on the issue:

The bombing is part of who Anders is now (assuming you don't off him that is). Did he blow up a building with innocent people? Yes  Anders views himself as a freedom fighter and a revolutionary (and a would-be martyr), but the bombing was an act of terrorism. Back when the IRA (irish Republican Army) was heavily into bombings, etc., I'm sure that they considered themselves freedom fighters, fighting the good fight for the Irish in Northern Ireland. It still doesn't change what they did into anything other than terrorism. Terrorism doesn't begin and end with Al-Qaeda, although there's the obvious parallel with 9/11.

I empathize with Anders and sympathize with him, but he committed a terrorist act to try to jumpstart a revolution. In my opinion, you can hate the deed but still care about the man. I think it's great that the writers made the situation so complicated actually. It forces you to consider how important your principles are versus your emotions, and the extent to which you'e willing to compromise your beliefs if you think what he did was wrong.

Maybe you support mage freedom and see what he did as being necessary, even right, because you despise the Chantry and the templars? Then you're gold. Maybe you're conflicted about it like I am, in which case, you support mage freedom but think Anders was off his rocker when he set off the bomb - yet you still believe he deserves a second chance. Each person has his/her own reasons behind his/her decision.

EDIT: Darn you, painting of Anders with his wrists bound, for making me drool again! Err, pretend you never saw this edit. <.< 

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 24 mars 2011 - 09:33 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Addai67 wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...
As they should. From the very beginning, anders warns you that he is an abomination. On top of that, Anders is a revolutionary idealist who is an abomination.

That's like if one of your buddies had a really bad drinking problem and likes to race cars. You can either sit in the passenger seat with him and help that boy out, you can leave him to his own devices, or you can take the keys and say "NO!!!!".

So yeah. I really don't have an issue with the PC having to keep an eye on Anders.

I do try to help him out, but I also take him with me on mage-savey kinds of missions so apparently whatever else I say about "vengeance BAD" means squat.

I'm simply responding to the same futlity I've heard Anders fans discuss, i.e. that nothing you do helps him anyway.  So why bother?  He's pretty much a train wreck and knowing you can save a little bit of his will just so he can watch himself blow the Chantry up isn't exactly motivating to help him, either.

I quite like knowing my PC is not to blame for encouraging, and that Anders is incredibly reluctant and powerless in those circumstances. It cleared my conscious and made it more tragic for me.

So yes. If your decisions profoundly change the character and how you react to said event, I don't consider that futile.

[Sjofn]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

In Anders case regardless of whether you help him or not, he still makes sure Elthina's last sermon is a blast.


YYYYYEAAAAAHHHHHH.......!

Bwahaha. <3

I have to admit, the picture of Anders watching Hawke sleep ... I get the intent, but I apparently have issues with people watching me sleep, because Leliana got dumped HARD for watching me sleep (especially since when my boyelf was like "Uh, that's creepy," all she did was laugh ), and Alistair almost got dumped for the same reason.

DONUT WATCH SJOFN SLEEP KK

Modifié par Sjofn, 24 mars 2011 - 09:33 .

[Addai]

Herr Uhl wrote...

jab19782010 wrote...

I'm curious, do you consider early American revolutionists terrorists or patriots?

What I'm wondering is why they're seen as patriots by some, as what they did was against their own country.

Because Britain was no longer treating Americans as British citzens with the same rights as other British citizens.

It does have some application.  I think there's a theory that war agitators provoked the Boston Massacre on purpose.  If so, that was also abhorrent, if not on quite the same scale as causing a massive explosion of a religious institution.

[Sarah1281]

Addai67 wrote...

@Ryzaki, the hardening mechanic drives me bonkers too. But I'm not referring to rivalry vs. friendship path. I haven't completed either since I haven't done his romance or had him around so as to get the numbers high enough. So in my case Anders has apparently done the deed willingly. I just don't like the idea that Hawke is responsible for whether or not he fights against Justice.

I don't have a problem with it. On his own, Anders decided that merging with Justice was a good idea. Going only by his own judgement, he seems to continue to think it's a good idea except after he freaks out and kills/almost kills Ella but by Act 3 he's regained his sense of purpose. On his own, Anders thinks blowing up the Chantry is the best way to accomplish his goals.

All of this is done with him relying on only his own compromised judgement. If Hawke does nothing, he continues to believes he's doing the right thing. If Hawke encourages him then of course he's going to continue to believe it's right. If Hawke challenges him then he's being forced to seriously consider what he's been doing have heard the opposition. He thinks it over again and decides he may be being too extre-Justice comes out. Hawke just gives him reason to second-guess himself. Hawke's not a miracle-worker. She makes him doubt but ultimately, it happens.

[nyxocity]

DeaHamlet wrote...

thenyxie wrote...



....

Was someone talking...?

Who did that?  I must plant myself at their feet to thank them forever for such... omg hotness!
I am flustered... and blushing... at work.  o.O  Bad thread, bad!

Um... I found it in a random Google image search which took me an older forum thread here on the boards, and the person who posted it didn't say who did it. So I don't know, alas.

But it sure is nice to stare at

Did you see THIS one from earlier (not-quite NSFW, but close): http://towim.deviant...shful-202121184

AJKSKALKFJLSFJLS. BE STILL MY HEART.

Modifié par thenyxie, 24 mars 2011 - 09:37 .

[Addai]

HolyJellyfish wrote...
I quite like knowing my PC is not to blame for encouraging, and that Anders is incredibly reluctant and powerless in those circumstances. It cleared my conscious and made it more tragic for me.

So yes. If your decisions profoundly change the character and how you react to said event, I don't consider that futile.

And apparently my PC is to blame for Anders not being able to resist Justice at all, because she saved a few apostates but challenged him about his course in their off hours.  You don't see how that could be frustrating?

[signcherie]

RinjiRenee wrote...

I feel uncomfortable rivalmancing Anders because I feel like I'm messing with a feral cat.

You have just killed me with this. I am lying here, dead, from lulz.

[leggywillow]

TripLight wrote...
By Syberfox

D'aww!  This is awesome.

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...
And apparently my PC is to blame for Anders not being able to resist Justice at all, because she saved a few apostates but challenged him about his course in their off hours.  You don't see how that could be frustrating?

I felt the same way about Fenris thinking mages were all generally bad on the friendship path. 

Sure I said the circle didn't work but he seemed to think that meant I believed in the status quo. 

Even going as far to suggest Hawke blamed rogue mages for Hawke's mother's death. 

Limitations in the system. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2011 - 09:40 .

[DeaHamlet]

Ryzaki wrote...

Is it wrong that I wasn't moved at all by the exploding Chantry other than "Wow. Big explosion. Sucks to be whoever was inside." ?  

I mean I was all like O_O for three seconds but I didn't feel anything once the cutscene ended. 

I think I might've felt more remorse if the whole rite of annullment thing hadn't come out of nowhere. Siding with the templars, cutting down those circle mages that made me sick to my stomach.

Exploding chantry with nameless NPCs and one NPC I found irritating didn't move me.

Is it horrible of me that I laughed at your post?
I remember a movie about people playing table-top D&D killing NPCs willy-nilly cause they felt like it... it was hilarious.

[Ryzaki]

DeaHamlet wrote...
Is it horrible of me that I laughed at your post?
I remember a movie about people playing table-top D&D killing NPCs willy-nilly cause they felt like it... it was hilarious.

No. 

What made the movie funny? 

[Addai]

Ryzaki wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
And apparently my PC is to blame for Anders not being able to resist Justice at all, because she saved a few apostates but challenged him about his course in their off hours.  You don't see how that could be frustrating?

I felt the same way about Fenris thinking mages were all generally bad on the friendship path. 

Sure I said the circle didn't work but he seemed to think that meant I believed in the status quo. 

Even going as far to suggest Hawke blamed rogue mages for Hawke's mother's death. 

Limitations in the system. 

He still thinks all mages are inherently dangerous no matter whether you romance, rival, friend or whatever.  That's his conviction and he doesn't change it.