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[nyxocity]

leggywillow wrote...

Rheia1234 wrote...

Has anyone successfully gotten him to side with the templars on a Rivalmance? I've heard that people are having trouble and/or bugs.

No, I tried it just now out of curiosity and couldn't get him to do it.  I rival-manced him and got the whole "what have I done, I'm sorry" conversation where he rethinks his actions but then Justice takes over.  But then when I asked him to side with the templars, he just said "Aw hell no".  Maybe it's because that character supported the templars the entire time?  Maybe if you support the mages up to that point you can talk him into it.

I wouldn't ever keep that ending, because I think it seems out-of-character and strange, but I had to try it FOR SCIENCE!  Couldn't get it to work, though.

Was he at 100% rivalmance? I think the key is 100% rivalmance and the final conversation before the Chantry scene? I'm not exactly sure of the chain of events since I've never rivalmanced him. This is how she broke it down:

If you get to full rivalry with Anders and convince him that it was wrong to merge with Justice, then you have the option to get him to side with the Templars with you. It is only available if you complete the final rivalry.

[Anarya]

SurelyForth wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Wait wait, so you CAN get Anders to side with the templars? I don't like this, not one bit. I find myself frequently wanting a "side with Varric" option, which would look something like this:

[_]side with mages
[x]to hell with all of you! I need a drink.
[_]side with templars

Seriously! My ideal response to that moment would be for my Hawke to throw down her sword in disgust, spit on the ground in front of Orsino and Meredith, and catch the next boat back to Sanity.

I wrote this yesterday, but this is how I'd hope that the others would react to Anders siding with the templars:

Anders: Hey, guys. So I thought...well, I missed you and thought you could use some help.
Hawke: You're going to aid in the Annulment?
Anders: Maybe?
Aveline: **** no, you're not. Not after 7 YEARS of EVERY conversation being templars are horrible, this and mages are slaves, that.
Varric: She's right, Blondie. We did put up with a lot of your rhetoric.
Aveline: And the only tolerable thing about it was that at least you were sincere in your beliefs.
Aveline: Without that, you're just an ass.
Varric: And crazy.
Anders: Fine. Let's fi-
Fenris: *wipes off blade* It is done.

Lol! *high-fives Fenris*

If it makes Anders feel any better, I'd plan on burying him with all 800 copies of his manifesto I found in various locations around my estate.

Modifié par Anarya, 25 mars 2011 - 05:33 .

[Sialater]

It just goes to show he really is obsessed with Hawke.

[DeaHamlet]

lamppostinwinter wrote...

I find it really intresting that someone had to go into the debug to find out about this whole Anders' siding with the Templars business. Which means no one went full rivalry, kept him alive, then sided with the Templars. Or at least no one said anything about it, which is extreamly unlikely because stumbling on something that crazy is not something you keep quiet about.

Still trying to process the idea of this. I'm going to have to do a playthrough with that path before I really decide how I feel about it. It's kind of breaking my brain right now though.

However, it is messed up that you only get a kiss from Anders if are a total jerk to him the whole game and then you force him to kill the people he had been fighting for. Forget about Hawke being emotionally abused by him, seems like Anders' is the one with battered wife syndrome.

I agree that it's unfair friendmancers do not get a kiss.
I demand a kiss, damn it!!!!
Fenris kisses me either way, it's unfair!  Prejudice!

[crotti]

lamppostinwinter wrote...

I find it really intresting that someone had to go into the debug to find out about this whole Anders' siding with the Templars business. Which means no one went full rivalry, kept him alive, then sided with the Templars. Or at least no one said anything about it, which is extreamly unlikely because stumbling on something that crazy is not something you keep quiet about.

Still trying to process the idea of this. I'm going to have to do a playthrough with that path before I really decide how I feel about it. It's kind of breaking my brain right now though.

However, it is messed up that you only get a kiss from Anders if are a total jerk to him the whole game and then you force him to kill the people he had been fighting for. Forget about Hawke being emotionally abused by him, seems like Anders' is the one with battered wife syndrome.

I agree.
But it sounds so crazy that even I have to do a playthrough like that (T_T it's going to be hard... I haven't watched the youtube-vids with Anders as a rival yet so I have no idea what will happen "xD)... But... seriously... Anders and the templars? Poor Anders. I really don't know what is worse - the friendship or the rivalry path.
But I won't kill him. <_< It's his own fault. He shouldn't be able to get out of this by dying.  
... No... Wait... if all of this happened because of Justice I can't blame Anders....
My head hurts.

[DeaHamlet]

Anarya wrote...

Wait wait, so you CAN get Anders to side with the templars? I don't like this, not one bit. I find myself frequently wanting a "side with Varric" option, which would look something like this:

[_]side with mages
[x]to hell with all of you! I need a drink.
[_]side with templars

HAHAHA Even my goody-two-shoes rogue was so sick of it all by that point she'd have gone for that.  For sure!  
Hawke rogue so wanted to just wash her hands of the whole thing.  I'm not surprised she disappeared eventually after they begged her to be in charge.  

[Herr Uhl]

SurelyForth wrote...

No, because Anders was being threatened when he Vengeanced out and killed the templar and other Wardens. Up until that point, the implication was that he always went willingly back to the Tower when he was captured. So he wasn't cornered in his home, but he was defending himself from someone who was going to kill him otherwise.

And this only happened because Justice became corrupted inside of him. Normal Anders would not have allowed himself to be possessed by a demon in self-defense, and his merging with Justice was not compelled by a desire to go on a templar killing spree.

He had the destruction of the chantry in mind when merging, and he was ready to kill anyone to make that happen. Granted, that was after the merge and possibly not his original intention (the killing anyone to make it happen part).

Might not have been a desire to kill templars, but he couldn't have expected to bring down the chantry without killing a few. He made that change willingly, sans any corruption other than talking to Justice.

[DeaHamlet]

Kolotosa wrote...

lamppostinwinter wrote...

I find it really intresting that someone had to go into the debug to find out about this whole Anders' siding with the Templars business. Which means no one went full rivalry, kept him alive, then sided with the Templars. Or at least no one said anything about it, which is extreamly unlikely because if stumbling on something like that is not something you keep quiet about.

Still trying to process the idea or this. I'm going to have to do a playthrough with that path before I really decide how I feel about it. It's kind of breaking my brain right now though.

However, it is messed up that you only get a kiss from Anders if are a total jerk to him the whole game and then you force him to kill the people he had been fighting for. Forget about Hawke being emotionally abused by him, seems like Anders' is the one with battered wife syndrome.

I agree, on all accounts. The conditions for this even coming up as a possibility are apparently so specific that it's an incredibly rare outcome.

I don't really know what to make of it. It seems unwholesome, but at the same time, I'm morbidly curious enough to want to see it for myself. In my head I just can't see any way in which this is a "good" result for anyone, not Hawke, not Anders, certainly not the mages... the only benefit I can see at all is the possibility for  good coming of Hawke assuming the Viscount's seat, but I can't see that making up for the path taken to get there, or the virtual disassembly of one of the game's most key figures.

I just don't know about all this. 

And the kiss thing is just weird.

"I am utterly destroyed and have lost all sense of self. Let's kill mages together, omnomnomnomnom"

makes more sense than

"You've stuck by me in spite of what I did, and have agreed to run away into the hills with me because you presumably still love me, let's kill templars together omnomnomnomnom."?

I don't buy it. <_<

I wrote in another thread that I think Anders would be pretty pissed off eventually, LOL.
Oh yeah, you got me to kill mages to stop a war... and ahem... THE WAR STARTED ANYWAY, so what now? Do I keep killing mages so you'll continue to love me?  UGH.

[leggywillow]

thenyxie wrote...

leggywillow wrote...
No, I tried it just now out of curiosity and couldn't get him to do it.  I rival-manced him and got the whole "what have I done, I'm sorry" conversation where he rethinks his actions but then Justice takes over.  But then when I asked him to side with the templars, he just said "Aw hell no".  Maybe it's because that character supported the templars the entire time?  Maybe if you support the mages up to that point you can talk him into it.

I wouldn't ever keep that ending, because I think it seems out-of-character and strange, but I had to try it FOR SCIENCE!  Couldn't get it to work, though.

Was he at 100% rivalmance? I think the key is 100% rivalmance and the final conversation before the Chantry scene? I'm not exactly sure of the chain of events since I've never rivalmanced him. This is how she broke it down:

If you get to full rivalry with Anders and convince him that it was wrong to merge with Justice, then you have the option to get him to side with the Templars with you. It is only available if you complete the final rivalry.

Yep, he was definitely at 100% rival.  I think I had him there by the beginning of Act 2; that Hawke was remarkably pro-templar. XD

[Anarya]

DeaHamlet wrote...

I agree that it's unfair friendmancers do not get a kiss.
I demand a kiss, damn it!!!!
Fenris kisses me either way, it's unfair!  Prejudice!

You know, I can't claim to know why friendmancers don't get a kiss, but Anders is such a controversial and divisive character, and what he does can turn what you feel for him into rage and disgust rather easily. A kiss might have felt uncomfortable at that moment.

I realize that most people who reacted with disgust to Anders probably killed him, but I had such mixed emotions about him during the endgame. I couldn't kill him but I was definitely not happy with what he did, and a kiss would have felt weird. I dunno.

[LastFadingSmile]

You know what, I think I'm just going to continue on my merry way as if none of this happened, because to do otherwise makes me sad. I'll remember as time as far back as yesterday, when the biggest challenge I had to face was eyebrows.

[Miss Greyjoy]

Anarya wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

I agree that it's unfair friendmancers do not get a kiss.
I demand a kiss, damn it!!!!
Fenris kisses me either way, it's unfair!  Prejudice!

You know, I can't claim to know why friendmancers don't get a kiss, but Anders is such a controversial and divisive character, and what he does can turn what you feel for him into rage and disgust rather easily. A kiss might have felt uncomfortable at that moment.

I realize that most people who reacted with disgust to Anders probably killed him, but I had such mixed emotions about him during the endgame. I couldn't kill him but I was definitely not happy with what he did, and a kiss would have felt weird. I dunno.

I think making it player-initiated would have been the way to go. There are people who feel strongly on both sides of the argument.

[leggywillow]

Kolotosa wrote...

Ser Pouts-A-Lot!  That's great!  XD

The Anders pout certainly wins me over every time.  Can't resist it.

[DeaHamlet]

Miss Greyjoy wrote...

Anarya wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

I agree that it's unfair friendmancers do not get a kiss.
I demand a kiss, damn it!!!!
Fenris kisses me either way, it's unfair!  Prejudice!

You know, I can't claim to know why friendmancers don't get a kiss, but Anders is such a controversial and divisive character, and what he does can turn what you feel for him into rage and disgust rather easily. A kiss might have felt uncomfortable at that moment.

I realize that most people who reacted with disgust to Anders probably killed him, but I had such mixed emotions about him during the endgame. I couldn't kill him but I was definitely not happy with what he did, and a kiss would have felt weird. I dunno.

I think making it player-initiated would have been the way to go. There are people who feel strongly on both sides of the argument.

See?  Why do WE have to keep fixing it for them?  Give me a side option that says "Kiss me fool, I love you still".

[Aigyl]

*shamelessly pokes into Anders thread*

Just to say that on my game this was bugged. Had the fellow at full rivalry and had convinced him that he was wrong. After siding with the Templars he wouldn't budge from his seat to come join the party again.

*pokes out*

[nyxocity]

leggywillow wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

leggywillow wrote...
No, I tried it just now out of curiosity and couldn't get him to do it.  I rival-manced him and got the whole "what have I done, I'm sorry" conversation where he rethinks his actions but then Justice takes over.  But then when I asked him to side with the templars, he just said "Aw hell no".  Maybe it's because that character supported the templars the entire time?  Maybe if you support the mages up to that point you can talk him into it.

I wouldn't ever keep that ending, because I think it seems out-of-character and strange, but I had to try it FOR SCIENCE!  Couldn't get it to work, though.

Was he at 100% rivalmance? I think the key is 100% rivalmance and the final conversation before the Chantry scene? I'm not exactly sure of the chain of events since I've never rivalmanced him. This is how she broke it down:

If you get to full rivalry with Anders and convince him that it was wrong to merge with Justice, then you have the option to get him to side with the Templars with you. It is only available if you complete the final rivalry.

Yep, he was definitely at 100% rival.  I think I had him there by the beginning of Act 2; that Hawke was remarkably pro-templar. XD

Huh. Did you ever get him to admit that merging with Justice was wrong? 

I'm thinking this is either incredibly difficult to do and requires much more detailed decisions/conversation choices than she's giving in her explanation, or it's bugged. Is it sad that I rather hope it's the latter? Of course, if it is, they'll just fix it.

[Threeparts]

Anarya wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

I agree that it's unfair friendmancers do not get a kiss.
I demand a kiss, damn it!!!!
Fenris kisses me either way, it's unfair!  Prejudice!

You know, I can't claim to know why friendmancers don't get a kiss, but Anders is such a controversial and divisive character, and what he does can turn what you feel for him into rage and disgust rather easily. A kiss might have felt uncomfortable at that moment.

I realize that most people who reacted with disgust to Anders probably killed him, but I had such mixed emotions about him during the endgame. I couldn't kill him but I was definitely not happy with what he did, and a kiss would have felt weird. I dunno.

I know that my Hawke - even after getting her fierce on and vowing to kill anyone that would come for him, and then agreeing to go on the run with him for the sake of their cause - would have pushed him away had he tried kissing her then.
Sure, she loves him and will fight by his side until the end, but it doesn't change how angry, upset and shocked she is in that moment. Maybe someone will throw in a mod to make it an option on the wheel instead of the whole speech about their children, but I don't think my canon would ever go for it.
Maybe in a day or two she'll be able to be civil to him again, but at that moment she's far more likely to punch him in the face than look for smooches.

[Purposeof-Flight]

lamppostinwinter wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

lamppostinwinter wrote...

I find it really intresting that someone had to go into the debug to find out about this whole Anders' siding with the Templars business. Which means no one went full rivalry, kept him alive, then sided with the Templars. Or at least no one said anything about it, which is extreamly unlikely because stumbling on something that crazy is not something you keep quiet about.

Still trying to process the idea of this. I'm going to have to do a playthrough with that path before I really decide how I feel about it. It's kind of breaking my brain right now though.

However, it is messed up that you only get a kiss from Anders if are a total jerk to him the whole game and then you force him to kill the people he had been fighting for. Forget about Hawke being emotionally abused by him, seems like Anders' is the one with battered wife syndrome.

I agree that it's unfair friendmancers do not get a kiss.
I demand a kiss, damn it!!!!
Fenris kisses me either way, it's unfair!  Prejudice!

So unfair. How is slaughtering mages more romantic than "let's run away and be fugitives together"? I had no idea the genocide of the people he had sacrificed his sanity for got Anders hot and bothered. What the hell.

Welcome to Anders-Contradiction-Land.
Where you're confused as hell 90% of the time.

[DeaHamlet]

lamppostinwinter wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

lamppostinwinter wrote...

I find it really intresting that someone had to go into the debug to find out about this whole Anders' siding with the Templars business. Which means no one went full rivalry, kept him alive, then sided with the Templars. Or at least no one said anything about it, which is extreamly unlikely because stumbling on something that crazy is not something you keep quiet about.

Still trying to process the idea of this. I'm going to have to do a playthrough with that path before I really decide how I feel about it. It's kind of breaking my brain right now though.

However, it is messed up that you only get a kiss from Anders if are a total jerk to him the whole game and then you force him to kill the people he had been fighting for. Forget about Hawke being emotionally abused by him, seems like Anders' is the one with battered wife syndrome.

I agree that it's unfair friendmancers do not get a kiss.
I demand a kiss, damn it!!!!
Fenris kisses me either way, it's unfair!  Prejudice!

So unfair. How is slaughtering mages more romantic than "let's run away and be fugitives together"? I had no idea the genocide of the people he had sacrificed his sanity for got Anders hot and bothered. What the hell.

Yeah, that made so little sense to me, sigh.  Maybe he was looking for some sort of encouragement, support... but still, so unfair we get no kiss for friendmancing him!
I support you, we agree in wanting to free mages, I even forgive you for blowing up the damn chantry and take you with me so we can defend mages... and THAT doesn't turn you on?
Bastard.

[crotti]

I can't help thinking "Assuming direct control" all the time. I don't know why.
Good job, Anders. Now I'm completely insane. Just like you.

T_T Ser Pouts-A-Lot is evil.

[nyxocity]

lamppostinwinter wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

lamppostinwinter wrote...

I find it really intresting that someone had to go into the debug to find out about this whole Anders' siding with the Templars business. Which means no one went full rivalry, kept him alive, then sided with the Templars. Or at least no one said anything about it, which is extreamly unlikely because stumbling on something that crazy is not something you keep quiet about.

Still trying to process the idea of this. I'm going to have to do a playthrough with that path before I really decide how I feel about it. It's kind of breaking my brain right now though.

However, it is messed up that you only get a kiss from Anders if are a total jerk to him the whole game and then you force him to kill the people he had been fighting for. Forget about Hawke being emotionally abused by him, seems like Anders' is the one with battered wife syndrome.

I agree that it's unfair friendmancers do not get a kiss.
I demand a kiss, damn it!!!!
Fenris kisses me either way, it's unfair!  Prejudice!

So unfair. How is slaughtering mages more romantic than "let's run away and be fugitives together"? I had no idea the genocide of the people he had sacrificed his sanity for got Anders hot and bothered. What the hell.

I don't think it is that. I think what it is (and this is what disturbs me most about this entire reveal), is that maybe at the end of the rivalmance, you're dealing with pure ANDERS, no Justice. So you get a human reaction. At the end of the friendmance, he has merged with Justice completely and nothing is more important than the mission of saving the mages. Kissing you would be a distraction from the mission.

I... really don't like that explanation. But it's the only one that makes sense to me.

[DeaHamlet]

Threeparts wrote...

Anarya wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

I agree that it's unfair friendmancers do not get a kiss.
I demand a kiss, damn it!!!!
Fenris kisses me either way, it's unfair!  Prejudice!

You know, I can't claim to know why friendmancers don't get a kiss, but Anders is such a controversial and divisive character, and what he does can turn what you feel for him into rage and disgust rather easily. A kiss might have felt uncomfortable at that moment.

I realize that most people who reacted with disgust to Anders probably killed him, but I had such mixed emotions about him during the endgame. I couldn't kill him but I was definitely not happy with what he did, and a kiss would have felt weird. I dunno.

I know that my Hawke - even after getting her fierce on and vowing to kill anyone that would come for him, and then agreeing to go on the run with him for the sake of their cause - would have pushed him away had he tried kissing her then.
Sure, she loves him and will fight by his side until the end, but it doesn't change how angry, upset and shocked she is in that moment. Maybe someone will throw in a mod to make it an option on the wheel instead of the whole speech about their children, but I don't think my canon would ever go for it.
Maybe in a day or two she'll be able to be civil to him again, but at that moment she's far more likely to punch him in the face than look for smooches.

I don't see how siding with the templars would change how hurt or angry and upset Hawke is at the moment.
So if it's weird for him to initiate a kiss for one, it's weird for both ocasions. 
All I wanted was a side wheelie option or something... 
Or you know... like every other RPG... TO SLEEP WITH HIM BEFORE THE BIG FIGHT.
Damn it, I'm not dying without a last minute nookie.

[Threeparts]

Kolotosa wrote...

You know what, I think I'm just going to continue on my merry way as if none of this happened, because to do otherwise makes me sad. I'll remember as time as far back as yesterday, when the biggest challenge I had to face was eyebrows.

Why eyebrows? The part where they're darker than his hair? So are mine in real life (brown hair, black eyebrows), and my BFFs husband has ginger eyebrows and beard with blonde hair. 

[Anarya]

Threeparts wrote...

Anarya wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

I agree that it's unfair friendmancers do not get a kiss.
I demand a kiss, damn it!!!!
Fenris kisses me either way, it's unfair!  Prejudice!

You know, I can't claim to know why friendmancers don't get a kiss, but Anders is such a controversial and divisive character, and what he does can turn what you feel for him into rage and disgust rather easily. A kiss might have felt uncomfortable at that moment.

I realize that most people who reacted with disgust to Anders probably killed him, but I had such mixed emotions about him during the endgame. I couldn't kill him but I was definitely not happy with what he did, and a kiss would have felt weird. I dunno.

I know that my Hawke - even after getting her fierce on and vowing to kill anyone that would come for him, and then agreeing to go on the run with him for the sake of their cause - would have pushed him away had he tried kissing her then.
Sure, she loves him and will fight by his side until the end, but it doesn't change how angry, upset and shocked she is in that moment. Maybe someone will throw in a mod to make it an option on the wheel instead of the whole speech about their children, but I don't think my canon would ever go for it.
Maybe in a day or two she'll be able to be civil to him again, but at that moment she's far more likely to punch him in the face than look for smooches.

Yeah my Hawke #1 was similar, but she told him she wouldn't be running away with him. She still loves him but can't forgive him. Ahhh so wonderfully tragic! But yeah, she would not have been up for kissyface.

All of my Hawkes have been sorely tempted by Isabela's pirate life offer, though, I must say. <_<