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[Rinji the Bearded]

Sialater wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

::wails::

Is it time for our bipolar thread to shift back to talk of sex and kittens now?  Because Anders is making me saaaaad.

Feel better?

Give the man a sandwich.

[Sialater]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Sialater wrote...
How long before the end events of DA2 and Varric's questioning, anyway?

Three years.

So... that's three years in which the two of them get lost and leave their LI's frantic.  So... are they going the route that no matter what, Leliana loves the Warden, too? I know... different thread.

[Akrim_Drak]

Rheia1234 wrote...

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

Hey guys -- some days back, someone posted a comment about having shown the Anders kiss scene to non-gamer friends and having them rush out to buy DA. I can't find it -- can someone point me to where that comment is?

Hi Jennifer,

That was me. I had about 5 people who saw that and were so impressed that stuff like that even existed in video games. They loved the idea of an emotional story and were blown away by the kiss. For obvious reasons

And yes, off they went to pick up the game and/or confiscate their husbands/SO's computer.

Bored me! The quote is on page 38.

Rheia1234 wrote...
Yes, my first play-through was ridden with emotions. Man.Had to play
through the mother quest during my second play-through last night.
Ugh...I figure if I want to romance everyone at least once, I'll need 12
play-throughs or something. Since I can't seem to resist our resident
revolutionary.

I've converted 5 non-gamers today just by showing them the kiss scene.

"Wait...what? This stuff is in video games?"

[Raelis27]

My main problem with this new Anders revelation is that It seems to me now that the game implies that siding with the Templars is the more moral way. On the pro-templar path Anders understands how atrocious his action was and is encouraged to fight the Vengeance demon that posesses him; mages are revealed to be blood magic practitioners or abominations, so annulling the Circle is sort of justified. While on the pro-mage path Anders continues to believe that the murder of innocents was justified and he slowly loses himself completely to Vengeance, and there's a possibility of more innocents dying for Anders' cause. So I can't get rid of the feeling that the entire point of the game is to show us that we shouldn't sympathize with mages too much. It really bothers me.

Modifié par Raelis27, 25 mars 2011 - 09:43 .

[Ironic Discordia]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Sialater wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

::wails::

Is it time for our bipolar thread to shift back to talk of sex and kittens now?  Because Anders is making me saaaaad.

Snip

Feel better?

Give the man a sandwich.

Welll, I clearly picked absolutely the right time to check this thread.

[nyxocity]

leggywillow wrote...

::wails::

Is it time for our bipolar thread to shift back to talk of sex and kittens now?  Because Anders is making me saaaaad.

Something that might cheer you up? I was chatting with a friend the other night, and it basically went like this:

me: This is not a pairing that you can write fluff about.
her: Sure you can!
her: There must be some way... um...
me: Like what? They take Justice to a carnival and feed him cotton candy?
her: Yes! (other stuff about who else would be at the carnival)
me: And he gets a sugar high.
her: He feels like he could blow up TEN chantries!
me: Yes! Except, who cares about blowing up chantries and right and wrong and stuff like oppession? Because; COTTON CANDY!

And then it devolved into how Anders would have to eat cotton candy whenever he and Hawke got it on, so Justice could get high on sugar and enjoy it, too, but that's neither here nor there *G*

[Jaulen]

The Anders kiss with sounds effects is better than the Fenris kiss.

[Ryzaki]

yukidama wrote...

I kinda hate the whole "Anders fights Justice and wins" angle, though. I personally think it diminishes it if after all that he can 'get better'. I don't like the whole "he's absolved from his crimes and responsibility because Justice did it" angle too. Then again, I'm not the writer, so *shrug*. I'll stick to whatever gives me the most tragedy since I'm a sucker like that.

Frankly I like a underdog victory. Nothing wrong with angst. But I love it when there's victory and defeat. Sure Anders won for now but he and Hawke are fully aware Vengeance will always be there waiting for a moment of weakness. I like more open endings like that then just "he lost himself completely". 

I don't necessarily like it but I understand it. I don't blame Orsino for going bonkers ad attacking Hawke when he turned into Harvester 2.0. *I do blame him for using bloodmagic in the first place*. I don't blame Anders for blowing up the Chantry on the rivalpath but I do blame him for letting a spirit in friend or not. 

Then again I'm a bit of a softy. I like my tragedy mixed with happiness. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2011 - 09:47 .

[heretica]

Sialater wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

::wails::

Is it time for our bipolar thread to shift back to talk of sex and kittens now?  Because Anders is making me saaaaad.

Feel better?

I think I need to pray. A lot.

[Sialater]

Jaulen wrote...

The Anders kiss with sounds effects is better than the Fenris kiss.

I must test this.  For science.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ironic Discordia wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Sialater wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

::wails::

Is it time for our bipolar thread to shift back to talk of sex and kittens now?  Because Anders is making me saaaaad.

Snip

Feel better?

Give the man a sandwich.

Welll, I clearly picked absolutely the right time to check this thread.

Have a sandwich.

[Raelis27]

I don't understand why in order to defeat Vengeance (even temporarily) Anders has to give up on all he believed was right and just. I mean, can't he defeat Vengeance just by admitting that blowing up the Chantry was wrong and expressing remorse? Why does he have to turn on his fellow mages to regain control over himself? Isn't that a little bit extreme? Or is championing for mages a wrong thing by definition?

Modifié par Raelis27, 25 mars 2011 - 09:49 .

[Ryzaki]

Raelis27 wrote...

I don't understand why in order to defeat Vengeance (even temporarily) Anders has to give up on all he believed was right and just. I mean, can't he defeat Vengeance just by admitting that blowing up the Chantry was wrong and expressing remorse? Why does he have to turn on his fellow mages to regain control over himself?

This bugs me too. 

I rivalmance him but I side with the mages. I really shouldn't have to be forced to watch him merge with Vengeance when I've been railing at him for the past 7 years that Vengeance isn't good for him and he's losing control of himself. 

That said on the templars side you do not have to kill all the mages in the circle. I believe a group of mages run up to you and beg for mercy. You can choose to then spare them and have the other templars spare mages that don't fight back as long as they're not bloodmages. 

So it's no ta complete slaughter unless you make it one. (Kind of like in Origins. You can slaughter everyone but you don't have to). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2011 - 09:53 .

[XOGHunter246]

Both Templers and Mages have innocent people just the bad leaders that can make some of them corrupt if the leader of anything has bad/good intentions there always someone who will rebel. That is life there will always be someone having different ideas no matter who leads them.

Now Anders even thought what he did was the wrong way to go about things something has made me think after reading some information. I think justice played a part in blowing up the Chantry it  was the vengeance that took over. The awakening Anders would not of gone so far it was only when he got involved with justice it awakened his true anger. Old Anders would of had these feelings but I doubt he would of went so far to kill so many innocents. Guess I could of been at fault blaming him entirely earlier, but then again he allowed Vengence to go in his body.

It is hard to make a definate decision to whos fault it was as Anders was the one who let Vengence take over him.

Modifié par XOGHunter246, 25 mars 2011 - 09:51 .

[Eydris Ivo]

Happy thoughts:

[Raelis27]

Ryzaki wrote...


This bugs me too. 

I rivalmance him but I side with the mages. I really shouldn't have to be forced to watch him merge with Vengeance when I've been railing at him for the past 7 years that Vengeance isn't good for him and he's losing control of himself. 

That said on the templars side you do not have to full kill all the mages in the circle. I believe a group of mages run up to you and beg for mercy. You can choose to then spare them and have the other templars spare mages that don't fight back as long as they're not bloodmages. 

So it's no ta complete slaughter unless you make it one. (Kind of like in Origins. You can slaughter everyone but you don't have to). 

I think I will probably do the same. I was going to friendmance him because I'm very pro-mage, but the outcome of this romance makes me very uncomfortable. The outcome of pro-Templar path makes me even more uncomfortable, though. So I guess rivalmance (to make him fight Justice) and siding with the mages is the best sort of compromise for me.

I know that you don't have to slaughter everyone when you're side with the Templars, but I just can't bring myself to pick their side. I'm such a mage sympathizer, it's scary. I would definitely agree with everything Anders says... if it wasn't for his extremist ways which I just can't support.

[Ashwraith]

Rheia1234 wrote...

Happy thoughts: -snip-

....
DAYUM.

Modifié par Ashwraith, 25 mars 2011 - 09:59 .

[Raelis27]

Have to say this is a pretty amazing thread with all the squeeing and fun and serious discussions. Very enjoyable place to be.

[griffondor]

I don't think that's the message. If you read the codex, the veil is thin in Kirkwall. Not only do mages become possessed but non mages as well. The family that killed Sebastian's family became possessed by a Desire demon and none were mages. Also, Meredith and Bartrand become corrupted by the Idol. Kirkwall is like the Blackmarsh in Awakenings... the Tevinter empire ripped the veil, plus the long history of slavery, suffering and abuse.

If you click on the Templar,Thrask---the one who had a daughter in the circle---he says some interesting things, including "Templars should protect mages, not abuse them. We should stand together and fight demons. Before Meredith, things were different..." I'm paraphrasing, but he makes an excellent point. It shouldn't be a mage/templar battle, but about fighting evil and corruption.

I am just finishing a mage playthrough and it's my favorite. There is a lot of support for mages. They are healers (Anders) and hero's in the society too (Gray Warden mages, and yourself, the Champion of Kirkwall).

I understand where you are coming from though... I wish the PC could have become Viscount at the end of Act 2 and been allowed to rule, and make changes in the city. (I loved being Warden Commander at the Vigil) But since you do not become Viscount, you might as well support the mages. It seems the most moral choice to me despite what Anders did.

[Koffeegirl]

Hmm, i rivalmanced Anders and sided with the templars in a recent playthrough and couldnt get him to join me....is this a bug?

Modifié par Koffeegirl, 25 mars 2011 - 10:16 .

[mellifera]

Apparently it is.

Modifié par yukidama, 25 mars 2011 - 10:18 .

[DeaHamlet]

In the end, no matter what... the war starts.
Nobody really wins *sigh*
I still don't see the point of arguing what is "best" for Anders. I highly doubt there is a 100% objective answer to that. I have my view, and none of the videos or the points brought up have swayed me. Nor do I see the people who are for rivalmance being swayed at all or the people who are for friendmance.

In the end, it sounds to me that people for rivalmance very much VERY much disapprove of Justice, of Vengeance, of what Anders did... well sorry, you get the luxury to claim it wasn't Anders, it was Vengeance.
I don't feel the same. I also don't feel the need to be a pushy controlling douchebag telling Anders what to think, how to think... especially to suggest that somehow the circle is working. None of my plays have convinced me in the least that it's working, that the people involved were going to resolve anything in any good way. Exalted march, right of annullment, let's wait for the Maker... blah blah blah.
Anders made a choice. My Hawke respects the man who made the choices he made, respects and loves the man that he is, Justice and all, and I am content that THAT is best for MY Hawke and Anders.

Now why do people feel the need to espouse that no matter what one way is better than the other? For all Hawkes in all existence?
I'm uncomfortable with such arrogance.

[leggywillow]

I know I've commented on this before, but it still amuses me so much to hear Brekker, since I'm 99% sure he's also voiced by Adam Howden.

I always have this reaction: "Did Anders just call me a lice-ridden refugee?  D:  So mean!  Oh wait, nevermind."

[crotti]

o_o
As long as I'm not an idiot for trying to rivalmance him with my new Hawke XD


I still think "This is SO wrong!" whenever I hear Cullen...  ;_;  I really like Anders' new voice... but... I don't know. T_T

Modifié par crotti, 25 mars 2011 - 10:48 .

[Raelis27]

Frow what I've seen, both friendmance and rivalmance are excellently written. I definitely don't beleive there is a "better" way to romance him! For me is just the matter of deciding which way is more acceptable - with friendmance I dissaprove of Justice and of what Anders did with the Chantry. With rivalmance I passionately disagree that the Circle is working, and trying to convince Anders of the "error of his ways" is OOC for my Hawke. What I want is to be a pro-mage activist who helps Anders get over his extremist ways.