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[Purposeof-Flight]

Sialater wrote...

sassperella wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

lamppostinwinter wrote...

Just thought I'd drop this in here, cause I know there is a lot of rage agaisnt Sebastian and thought people may be intrested given the threats he gives in reaction to keeping Anders alive. I definitly harbor rage for anyone that threatens my Anders.

Jennifer Hepler(in the Sebastian thread): "Sebastian's story is not finished yet. Don't worry."

Sebastian is coming to get you and your precious little Anders. Watch out.

I used to think Sebastian was cool with the accent and all, but now his whole presence is galling. It bothered me to hear some of his banters with other companions about how he was unwillingly sent to the Chantry and that nobody is truly free. Of course, because that means a life in the Chantry is evidently comparable to the subjugation of a group of people whose aptitude for magic is inborn. He's like a religious zealot who perceives the world in one way and seeks to indoctrinate as many people as he can.

(then again, this could be more of a personal issue because I got sick and tired of bible thumping nutcases telling me that I'm going to hell for living my life a certain way)

I totally agree with your impression of Sebastian.  I also hate bringing him anywhere, he tries to convert people, especially Fenris and I'm like ARGGGGGG stay away from Fenris!  
The stuff he tells Fenris about how the maker somehow helped him is so stupid... and Fenris' response is awesome.

Not to mention he wanted Hawke to turn Merril and Anders in to the templars 

He even says that if Hawke's a mage.  WTF is wrong with you, boy?

Awww he's not that bad. He's not my FAVORITE, but he's not that bad.
And Fenris was caught praying in the Chantry, I think that's why Sebastian pesters him about the faith. 

[YamiSnuffles]

Xewaka wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...
I hope that Seb DLC means that if Anders is alive, he'll also be in DLC. I mean, how could you have Seb attacking Kirkwall or whatever, without including the reason he's doing it? Then again, future Seb stuff could be about something entirely different I suppose. *is still hopeful in a sort of pessimistic way*

Why would Seb attack Kirkwall after Hawke killed the terrorist abomination and pacified the Circle uprising?

I see you missed the whole "if Anders is alive" part of my statement.

[DeaHamlet]

snarkycleric wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Threeparts wrote...


THERE IS NO HOPE BUT US. THERE IS NO MERCY BUT US. THERE IS NO JUSTICE. THERE IS JUST US.

That is my favourite part of any Discworld book out there, ever.

Reaper Man isn't my favourite in the series, but that whole scene still makes me shiver. And, of course, Death's eyes are blue light too. 

...ooh, fellow Pratchett fans? I love that scene as well. And that quote is really appropriate, all things considered. 

Count me in as well, love that scene.  And Death is one of my favourite all time characters.
Well... I guess it's no wonder I like Anders/Justice!!!  Geesh, never thought of that...

[DeaHamlet]

sassperella wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

lamppostinwinter wrote...

Just thought I'd drop this in here, cause I know there is a lot of rage agaisnt Sebastian and thought people may be intrested given the threats he gives in reaction to keeping Anders alive. I definitly harbor rage for anyone that threatens my Anders.

Jennifer Hepler(in the Sebastian thread): "Sebastian's story is not finished yet. Don't worry."

Sebastian is coming to get you and your precious little Anders. Watch out.

I used to think Sebastian was cool with the accent and all, but now his whole presence is galling. It bothered me to hear some of his banters with other companions about how he was unwillingly sent to the Chantry and that nobody is truly free. Of course, because that means a life in the Chantry is evidently comparable to the subjugation of a group of people whose aptitude for magic is inborn. He's like a religious zealot who perceives the world in one way and seeks to indoctrinate as many people as he can.

(then again, this could be more of a personal issue because I got sick and tired of bible thumping nutcases telling me that I'm going to hell for living my life a certain way)

I totally agree with your impression of Sebastian.  I also hate bringing him anywhere, he tries to convert people, especially Fenris and I'm like ARGGGGGG stay away from Fenris!  
The stuff he tells Fenris about how the maker somehow helped him is so stupid... and Fenris' response is awesome.

Not to mention he wanted Hawke to turn Merril and Anders in to the templars 

It's even worse if you're a mage... he talks about bringing in the apostates... And I'm RIGHT THERE!  I want to strangle him.  You bastard, I'm an apostate... you want to bring the templars at my door?
(Mind you, poor templars would get decimated... but then I'd have blood all over my pretty house... damnyou Sebastian!)

[Sialater]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Sialater wrote...

sassperella wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

lamppostinwinter wrote...

Just thought I'd drop this in here, cause I know there is a lot of rage agaisnt Sebastian and thought people may be intrested given the threats he gives in reaction to keeping Anders alive. I definitly harbor rage for anyone that threatens my Anders.

Jennifer Hepler(in the Sebastian thread): "Sebastian's story is not finished yet. Don't worry."

Sebastian is coming to get you and your precious little Anders. Watch out.

I used to think Sebastian was cool with the accent and all, but now his whole presence is galling. It bothered me to hear some of his banters with other companions about how he was unwillingly sent to the Chantry and that nobody is truly free. Of course, because that means a life in the Chantry is evidently comparable to the subjugation of a group of people whose aptitude for magic is inborn. He's like a religious zealot who perceives the world in one way and seeks to indoctrinate as many people as he can.

(then again, this could be more of a personal issue because I got sick and tired of bible thumping nutcases telling me that I'm going to hell for living my life a certain way)

I totally agree with your impression of Sebastian.  I also hate bringing him anywhere, he tries to convert people, especially Fenris and I'm like ARGGGGGG stay away from Fenris!  
The stuff he tells Fenris about how the maker somehow helped him is so stupid... and Fenris' response is awesome.

Not to mention he wanted Hawke to turn Merril and Anders in to the templars 

He even says that if Hawke's a mage.  WTF is wrong with you, boy?

Awww he's not that bad. He's not my FAVORITE, but he's not that bad.
And Fenris was caught praying in the Chantry, I think that's why Sebastian pesters him about the faith. 

But he is that bad in that instance.  I mean really?  You're following an apostate and you want to turn in her fellow apostates?    One of which she may be in love with?

[fhr_1100]

Hey there, I've been attempting to read through a lot of this thread, but there are over 300 pages and I couldn't quite catch everything. Stop me if this has already been discussed, but...does anybody have any theories on how Ander's bond with Justice might affect his lifespan as a Grey Warden? Will being an abomination save him from the 30 years sentence that the joining has? Or is it pointless to consider him even surviving that long anyway, given how unstable he is now?

This is of course assuming he survives. If he dies by your hand in the game then it's all a bit moot really!

[DeaHamlet]

I wish Fenris had an option to remark on the fact that Hawke is an apostate too. It's a little disappointing that the conversation doesn't change if Hawke is an apostate.
I love the fact that no matter how much Fenris HATES Anders and distrusts Merrill, he respects Hawke enough never to consider turning either over to the templars.
Not that I can understand why the templars keep away from Hawke before she becomes the champion... I mean, it's glaringly obvious she's an apostate.

I like to think that Varric greased a few palms to keep Hawke safe, not just Anders and Merrill. He's just that kind of bro *gives Varric many hugs to his chargrin*

[YamiSnuffles]

fhr_1100 wrote...

Hey there, I've been attempting to read through a lot of this thread, but there are over 300 pages and I couldn't quite catch everything. Stop me if this has already been discussed, but...does anybody have any theories on how Ander's bond with Justice might affect his lifespan as a Grey Warden? Will being an abomination save him from the 30 years sentence that the joining has? Or is it pointless to consider him even surviving that long anyway, given how unstable he is now?

This is of course assuming he survives. If he dies by your hand in the game then it's all a bit moot really!

I've wondered this myself. You know, assuming he survives everything else. I honestly can't think of what effect it would have, but you would think it would change things in some way.

[SurelyForth]

DeaHamlet wrote...

I wish Fenris had an option to remark on the fact that Hawke is an apostate too. It's a little disappointing that the conversation doesn't change if Hawke is an apostate.
I love the fact that no matter how much Fenris HATES Anders and distrusts Merrill, he respects Hawke enough never to consider turning either over to the templars.
Not that I can understand why the templars keep away from Hawke before she becomes the champion... I mean, it's glaringly obvious she's an apostate.

I like to think that Varric greased a few palms to keep Hawke safe, not just Anders and Merrill. He's just that kind of bro *gives Varric many hugs to his chargrin*

I think that even in Act 1, Hawke helps the templars enough that they're willing to give him/her a pass, as long as s/he doesn't do anything too crazy. I think it's recognized from the beginning that Hawke is a rare individual who is able to Get Stuff Done, so being a mage is secondary to that.

It's also the justification I use for why you can parade all over Kikrwall with Anders/Bethany/Merrill in tow and there are never any attempts to arrest them. Especially Anders, since he's apparently pretty notorious. ****** off Hawke, and you risk alienating the one person crazy/strong/crazy enough to help every man, woman, mage, templar and donkey in Kirkwall and that's not good for anyone. 

Just ask Petrice

[DeaHamlet]

I don't think if this can be considered Anders related or not... but since we were going on about Sebastian... and it seems a lot of people that hate Anders are big fans of Elthina and how she was the only peace-loving soul there blah blah...

This playthrough I clicked on Elthina many times. Just to see what she'd say to the **** going on.
I just told her about sister, sorry MOTHER Petrice... and the qunari and you know what Elthina says?

That she'll intervene at the right time.

Which by the way is AFTER the qunari delegates are killed. AFTER a whole city block dies from gas poisoning.
This... clicking on that chantry woman... makes me really really really... angry with her.
It feels like she has just as much hand allowing things to get to a tipping point with the qunari as with the Meredith business...

That lady makes me seethe.

[shiba5]

DeaHamlet wrote...

I don't think if this can be considered Anders related or not... but since we were going on about Sebastian... and it seems a lot of people that hate Anders are big fans of Elthina and how she was the only peace-loving soul there blah blah...

This playthrough I clicked on Elthina many times. Just to see what she'd say to the **** going on.
I just told her about sister, sorry MOTHER Petrice... and the qunari and you know what Elthina says?

That she'll intervene at the right time.

Which by the way is AFTER the qunari delegates are killed. AFTER a whole city block dies from gas poisoning.
This... clicking on that chantry woman... makes me really really really... angry with her.
It feels like she has just as much hand allowing things to get to a tipping point with the qunari as with the Meredith business...

That lady makes me seethe.

Her right time is never.

[DeaHamlet]

SurelyForth wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

I wish Fenris had an option to remark on the fact that Hawke is an apostate too. It's a little disappointing that the conversation doesn't change if Hawke is an apostate.
I love the fact that no matter how much Fenris HATES Anders and distrusts Merrill, he respects Hawke enough never to consider turning either over to the templars.
Not that I can understand why the templars keep away from Hawke before she becomes the champion... I mean, it's glaringly obvious she's an apostate.

I like to think that Varric greased a few palms to keep Hawke safe, not just Anders and Merrill. He's just that kind of bro *gives Varric many hugs to his chargrin*

I think that even in Act 1, Hawke helps the templars enough that they're willing to give him/her a pass, as long as s/he doesn't do anything too crazy. I think it's recognized from the beginning that Hawke is a rare individual who is able to Get Stuff Done, so being a mage is secondary to that.

It's also the justification I use for why you can parade all over Kikrwall with Anders/Bethany/Merrill in tow and there are never any attempts to arrest them. Especially Anders, since he's apparently pretty notorious. ****** off Hawke, and you risk alienating the one person crazy/strong/crazy enough to help every man, woman, mage, templar and donkey in Kirkwall and that's not good for anyone. 

Just ask Petrice

LOLz.  This playthrough I'm being an evil blood mage and kill a whole bunch of templars... the fools try to exact revenge by setting up a clandestine meeting with me.  All my evil blood mage has to say is "yey, more templars to kill.".  Did not turn out too well for them.
Still... all evil blood mage and nobody has tried to arrest me.  Kill me on the sly?  Sure.  Arrest me... noperz.
Maybe they're afraid?  But then they wouldn't be trying to kill me either.  *shrug* I dunno.

[DeaHamlet]

shiba5 wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

I don't think if this can be considered Anders related or not... but since we were going on about Sebastian... and it seems a lot of people that hate Anders are big fans of Elthina and how she was the only peace-loving soul there blah blah...

This playthrough I clicked on Elthina many times. Just to see what she'd say to the **** going on.
I just told her about sister, sorry MOTHER Petrice... and the qunari and you know what Elthina says?

That she'll intervene at the right time.

Which by the way is AFTER the qunari delegates are killed. AFTER a whole city block dies from gas poisoning.
This... clicking on that chantry woman... makes me really really really... angry with her.
It feels like she has just as much hand allowing things to get to a tipping point with the qunari as with the Meredith business...

That lady makes me seethe.

Her right time is never.

*sigh* Yes.  And even people who say that she doesn't have the power blah blah... actually, that's what she's there for.  To be above the templars, who work for the chantry.  She doesn't want to exert her power, but she has it.  And even if it fails, she ought to try.  As to mother Petrice (I cannot believe she made that lunatic a mother!!!), Elthina has full power over her... yet doesn't put a swift stop to it.

But, I mean, it never sounds like they give two ****s about anyone other than those in Hightown.  Elthina gets all googoo eyes and lovey-dovey at Hawke cause her family used to be nobility.  What is it to them that a block in lowtown dies?  Or that people in Darktown are dying and starving?  
SIGH.

[SurelyForth]

I dislike Elthina, but I've decided that my Hawke is honoring her when she spares Anders in the end. After all, Elthina herself will say that "Death is never justice" in Act 2, so...

Anders: You're...not going to kill me?
Hawke: I might strangle you later, but I'm not going to kill you now.
Anders: I deserve to die. It would be the just thing.
Hawke: "Death is never justice."
Anders: Wait...you didn't...
Hawke: I did.
Anders: Ironic.
Hawke: And fitting.
Anders: Tell that to Sebastian.
Hawke: I would have, but he'd just need me to tell him how he should feel about it and we have more important things to do.

[DeaHamlet]

SurelyForth wrote...

I dislike Elthina, but I've decided that my Hawke is honoring her when she spares Anders in the end. After all, Elthina herself will say that "Death is never justice" in Act 2, so...

Anders: You're...not going to kill me?
Hawke: I might strangle you later, but I'm not going to kill you now.
Anders: I deserve to die. It would be the just thing.
Hawke: "Death is never justice."
Anders: Wait...you didn't...
Hawke: I did.
Anders: Ironic.
Hawke: And fitting.
Anders: Tell that to Sebastian.
Hawke: I would have, but he'd just need me to tell him how he should feel about it and we have more important things to do.

Love that line, love it.

[shiba5]

SurelyForth wrote...

I dislike Elthina, but I've decided that my Hawke is honoring her when she spares Anders in the end. After all, Elthina herself will say that "Death is never justice" in Act 2, so...

Anders: You're...not going to kill me?
Hawke: I might strangle you later, but I'm not going to kill you now.
Anders: I deserve to die. It would be the just thing.
Hawke: "Death is never justice."
Anders: Wait...you didn't...
Hawke: I did.
Anders: Ironic.
Hawke: And fitting.
Anders: Tell that to Sebastian.
Hawke: I would have, but he'd just need me to tell him how he should feel about it and we have more important things to do.

She also says she hopes Anders finds a bomb so I feel like sparing him is honoring her last wishes.

Oh, she said "balm"?

[Sialater]

SurelyForth wrote...

I dislike Elthina, but I've decided that my Hawke is honoring her when she spares Anders in the end. After all, Elthina herself will say that "Death is never justice" in Act 2, so...

Anders: You're...not going to kill me?
Hawke: I might strangle you later, but I'm not going to kill you now.
Anders: I deserve to die. It would be the just thing.
Hawke: "Death is never justice."
Anders: Wait...you didn't...
Hawke: I did.
Anders: Ironic.
Hawke: And fitting.
Anders: Tell that to Sebastian.
Hawke: I would have, but he'd just need me to tell him how he should feel about it and we have more important things to do.

This.  So much.  

[DeaHamlet]

shiba5 wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

I dislike Elthina, but I've decided that my Hawke is honoring her when she spares Anders in the end. After all, Elthina herself will say that "Death is never justice" in Act 2, so...

Anders: You're...not going to kill me?
Hawke: I might strangle you later, but I'm not going to kill you now.
Anders: I deserve to die. It would be the just thing.
Hawke: "Death is never justice."
Anders: Wait...you didn't...
Hawke: I did.
Anders: Ironic.
Hawke: And fitting.
Anders: Tell that to Sebastian.
Hawke: I would have, but he'd just need me to tell him how he should feel about it and we have more important things to do.

She also says she hopes Anders finds a bomb so I feel like sparing him is honoring her last wishes.

Oh, she said "balm"?

I think the writers are so evil for putting that line in there

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

SurelyForth wrote...

I dislike Elthina, but I've decided that my Hawke is honoring her when she spares Anders in the end. After all, Elthina herself will say that "Death is never justice" in Act 2, so...

Anders: You're...not going to kill me?
Hawke: I might strangle you later, but I'm not going to kill you now.
Anders: I deserve to die. It would be the just thing.
Hawke: "Death is never justice."
Anders: Wait...you didn't...
Hawke: I did.
Anders: Ironic.
Hawke: And fitting.
Anders: Tell that to Sebastian.
Hawke: I would have, but he'd just need me to tell him how he should feel about it and we have more important things to do.

Hah, this is great.

Sure would have been nice if everyone else with power in this setting had simply sat back and let the cards fall where they may, as well. But nooo. Clusterf***.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 27 mars 2011 - 04:16 .

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

DeaHamlet wrote...

I don't think if this can be considered Anders related or not... but since we were going on about Sebastian... and it seems a lot of people that hate Anders are big fans of Elthina and how she was the only peace-loving soul there blah blah...

This playthrough I clicked on Elthina many times. Just to see what she'd say to the **** going on.
I just told her about sister, sorry MOTHER Petrice... and the qunari and you know what Elthina says?

That she'll intervene at the right time.

Which by the way is AFTER the qunari delegates are killed. AFTER a whole city block dies from gas poisoning.
This... clicking on that chantry woman... makes me really really really... angry with her.
It feels like she has just as much hand allowing things to get to a tipping point with the qunari as with the Meredith business...

That lady makes me seethe.

I fault her lack of action on the fact the writiers ran out of time.XD

[LupusYondergirl]

If you click on her in act two at the beginning she talks about praying to Andraste for guidance. Later on she mumbles something about how the Maker would never send her more than she could handle, sounding quite harried.

I'm getting the impression she is, to some degree, in way WAY over her head. She's a priest, she may be good at platitudes and sermons and the occasional pat on the head, but she's more useless than a ballgown on Oghren when it comes to doing anything, you know, significant or helpful.
Which is just GREAT when you belong to a religion with a huge deal of political power, and are stationed in a city where they have even more power than usual!

[YamiSnuffles]

SurelyForth wrote...

I dislike Elthina, but I've decided that my Hawke is honoring her when she spares Anders in the end. After all, Elthina herself will say that "Death is never justice" in Act 2, so...

Anders: You're...not going to kill me?
Hawke: I might strangle you later, but I'm not going to kill you now.
Anders: I deserve to die. It would be the just thing.
Hawke: "Death is never justice."
Anders: Wait...you didn't...
Hawke: I did.
Anders: Ironic.
Hawke: And fitting.
Anders: Tell that to Sebastian.
Hawke: I would have, but he'd just need me to tell him how he should feel about it and we have more important things to do.

*snerk*
But seriously, the only thing Elthina actively argues against is revenge. Instead of her usual sit back and see what happens approach, she argues again and again with Sebastian about getting revenge. No matter what anyone else might feel on the subject, I think Hawke could feel comfortable that by letting Anders live, she is following Elthina's most fervent teaching. I think Elthina would approve of the poetic justice approach.

[Purposeof-Flight]

Um, this is totally OT, but does anyone else's FemWarrior make man noises when she gets caught in a trap?
Anyone?

[Sarah1281]

I'm kind of curious as to what what have happened if Elthina hadn't been in the Chantry that day. If she had been gone when Anders had blown it up and Meredith had gone all Rite of Annulment on everyone, what would she have done? I mean, if nothing else she'd have to interpret the bombing as a sign to actually do something. Would she have tried to reign Meredith in? Would Meredith have listened?

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm kind of curious as to what what have happened if Elthina hadn't been in the Chantry that day. If she had been gone when Anders had blown it up and Meredith had gone all Rite of Annulment on everyone, what would she have done? I mean, if nothing else she'd have to interpret the bombing as a sign to actually do something. Would she have tried to reign Meredith in? Would Meredith have listened?

I think she would have stepped in but Meredith would not have listened. She was too influenced by the idol at that point to make a logical decision. I think Elthina was over her head, which is why she was biding her time on the assumption that the cities remaining influences were sane. Sadly they weren't and no one knew this until after she was sent backwards through a fireball between the pearly gates.