57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Magaloo]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm kind of curious as to what what have happened if Elthina hadn't been in the Chantry that day. If she had been gone when Anders had blown it up and Meredith had gone all Rite of Annulment on everyone, what would she have done? I mean, if nothing else she'd have to interpret the bombing as a sign to actually do something. Would she have tried to reign Meredith in? Would Meredith have listened?

I think creepy idol or not, Chantry being empty or filled to the ears with little Andrastians... it was the symbol that the chantry represented.  Elthina could have been in the Gallows with everyone saying "My flock! its just a building!!" and no one would have listened.  A little like no one listens to Sebastian when he is screaming that the one resposible is RIGHT THERE!!!

Modifié par Magaloo, 27 mars 2011 - 05:06 .

[Kawamura]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Kawamura wrote...
No, I kinda feel bad for the guy. I mean, Hawke's (at least my Hawke) not a bad guy. He's generally good. He has a weird response to law, mostly that it makes him snicker and roll his eyes, and he is an apostate, but he's not awful. It's just that stupid abomination is rubbing off on him.

I'm in the same camp.  I'm replaying in Act 3 now (for the third time lol), and I feel really bad for Seb.  He and my Hawke were on the rivalry path, and the relationship really sours in Act 3, especially if you're romancing Anders.

I feel bad because he's the one decent guy running around with all these crazy people, and he doesn't know how to deal with them.  Someone like Sebastian can't handle people like Anders and Hawke, can't understand why they must do what they do.  

I ... don't know that I'd say he's "decent". But I got a definition of decent that starts really excluding people that see things too much in black and white.

He's not a bad guy. He's usually  good. He could do with some empathy, but sometimes religious fervour makes you forget that. And no, he can't handle folks like Anders and Hawke. To be fair, I don' t know that I'd be able to handle folks like Anders.

And if we're talking about Discworld... *points down to signature* I love Vimes. And Vetinari. And DEATH. And --

Well. I like them all.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Magaloo wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm kind of curious as to what what have happened if Elthina hadn't been in the Chantry that day. If she had been gone when Anders had blown it up and Meredith had gone all Rite of Annulment on everyone, what would she have done? I mean, if nothing else she'd have to interpret the bombing as a sign to actually do something. Would she have tried to reign Meredith in? Would Meredith have listened?

I think creepy idol or not, Chantry being empty or filled to the ears with little Andrastians... it was the symbol that the chantry represented.  Elthina could have been in the Gallows with everyone saying "My flock! its just a building!!" and no one would have listened.  A little like no one listens to Sebastian when he is screaming that the one resposible is RIGHT THERE!!!

Everyone in the city has an IQ of 50. That's what I felt like the whole time and I was actually frustrated because of it. I like a little of self-awareness in my NPCs.

[MorningBird]

SurelyForth wrote...
I think that even in Act 1, Hawke helps the templars enough that they're willing to give him/her a pass, as long as s/he doesn't do anything too crazy. I think it's recognized from the beginning that Hawke is a rare individual who is able to Get Stuff Done, so being a mage is secondary to that.

It's also the justification I use for why you can parade all over Kikrwall with Anders/Bethany/Merrill in tow and there are never any attempts to arrest them. Especially Anders, since he's apparently pretty notorious. ****** off Hawke, and you risk alienating the one person crazy/strong/crazy enough to help every man, woman, mage, templar and donkey in Kirkwall and that's not good for anyone. 

Just ask Petrice.

There have been instances in the past where mages are granted certain... freedoms based on past services, academic contributions, and possibly social standing.

Example:  Wilhelm, Shale's past owner.  He fought in both Queen Moira and King Meric's rebel armies, and helped oust the Orlesian's from Ferelden.  I would assume that his contribution in the war was both noted and honored by Maric, as Welhelm was not only allowed to live a peaceful life outside of the circle in Honnleath, but marry a mundane and raise a family as well.

Furthermore, the circle and templars knew of his existence there, as he was corresponding academically with other mages in the circle.

Mages like Wilhelm and Hawke are rare though.  I imagine Hawke was allowed to roam free because (by the end of act 1) the Viscount (who has political sway) had taken notice of his/her accomplishments and services to Kirkwall.  He seems to hold Hawke in high-regard by the time act 2 rolls around, in any case.

Modifié par MorningBird, 27 mars 2011 - 05:17 .

[Ashwraith]

Kim Shepard wrote...

That sounds like Justice. xD And speaking of Hawke's siblings... I've realized that Kaya promised to help Justice kill all of the templars when her brother was a templar. Awkward family reunion, for sure.

Poor Kaya. She loves Justice as much as Anders, but he's only interested in the mission. I can see her friends trying to help her out, with only a little success.

Kane Amell: Kaya does what you want, but you don't do anything she wants? That's not fair. You're doing her an injustice.
Justice: *sadface*
-snip-

Alas, poor us- Justice is already spoken for.
What? You mean giving him that lyrium ring in Awakening did not equal a proposal? ;3;
(kidding, kidding.)
Cal, at least, gets off easy in that she gets to be all, "Join me, sis! together, we can rule the Empire take revenge on the Harkonnen free the mages and make those bastards pay for forcing us to live in fear!"
I'm fairly certain there's a dramatic thunderclap in there somewhere.
And then various people (excedpt for Varric) tell her to quit being a large ham.
Because they're no fun at all.

And her own dear, sweet cousin Amell (who I'm fairly certain is an evil mastermind under that shy, sunny exterior) would just slap Justice's aforementioned lyrium ring into her hand.
Because if Origins and Awakening taught me anything, it's that nothing spells 'love' like giftspam.


EDIT: Also, dear sweet jeezus, the "All That Remains" quest gives me nightmares. Actual nightmares. I am not even kidding.
Hawke, you are way more stoic than I would ever be in that situation. I imagine that in my case, there would be a whole lot more screaming, vomiting, and attempting to claw my way onto Anders' shoulders. ;3;

Modifié par Ashwraith, 27 mars 2011 - 05:21 .

[Ninche]

fhr_1100 wrote...

Hey there, I've been attempting to read through a lot of this thread, but there are over 300 pages and I couldn't quite catch everything. Stop me if this has already been discussed, but...does anybody have any theories on how Ander's bond with Justice might affect his lifespan as a Grey Warden? Will being an abomination save him from the 30 years sentence that the joining has? Or is it pointless to consider him even surviving that long anyway, given how unstable he is now?

This is of course assuming he survives. If he dies by your hand in the game then it's all a bit moot really!

Heya,

yeah I've been thinking about that stuff alot too. I already mentioned my theory that maybe Anders is immune to tranquility since he's got a piece of the fade living inside of him. Or maybe like someone mentioned the rite of tranquility might separate him from Justice. 

As for lifespan, Wynne was basically dead when her spirit saved her and she wasn't sure she would stay alive for much longer but she seems to have stayed alive for quite sometime. However her spirit didn't really interfere with her mind in any way, it just sort of kept her body working. With Anders I'm not sure Justice has anything to do with his health (except that short story in which he gets stabbed in the chest and survives, so maybe when justice takes over he is practically immortal?) his nightmares havent gone away so I'm guessing the taint rages inside of him despite Justice. 

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

MorningBird wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...
I think that even in Act 1, Hawke helps the templars enough that they're willing to give him/her a pass, as long as s/he doesn't do anything too crazy. I think it's recognized from the beginning that Hawke is a rare individual who is able to Get Stuff Done, so being a mage is secondary to that.

It's also the justification I use for why you can parade all over Kikrwall with Anders/Bethany/Merrill in tow and there are never any attempts to arrest them. Especially Anders, since he's apparently pretty notorious. ****** off Hawke, and you risk alienating the one person crazy/strong/crazy enough to help every man, woman, mage, templar and donkey in Kirkwall and that's not good for anyone. 

Just ask Petrice.

There have been instances in the past where mages are granted certain... freedoms based on past services, academic contributions, and possibly social standing.

Example:  Wilhelm, Shale's past owner.  He fought in both Queen Moira and King Meric's rebel armies, and helped oust the Orlesian's from Ferelden.  I would assume that his contribution in the war was both noted and honored by Maric, as Welhelm was not only allowed to live a peaceful life outside of the circle in Honnleath, but marry a mundane and raise a family as well.

Furthermore, the circle and templars knew of his existence there, as he was corresponding academically with other mages in the circle.

Mages like Wilhelm and Hawke are rare though.  I imagine Hawke was allowed to roam free because (by the end of act 1) the Viscount has taken notice of his/her accomplishments and services to Kirkwall.  He seems to hold Hawke in high-regard by the time act 2 rolls around, in any case.

See, I'm not buying it because before you do anything for anyone in the game you're blowing up angry refugees in the streets and working for mercenaries. Seriously, Hawke basically was a walking billboard for apostates.

[Magaloo]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Magaloo wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm kind of curious as to what what have happened if Elthina hadn't been in the Chantry that day. If she had been gone when Anders had blown it up and Meredith had gone all Rite of Annulment on everyone, what would she have done? I mean, if nothing else she'd have to interpret the bombing as a sign to actually do something. Would she have tried to reign Meredith in? Would Meredith have listened?

I think creepy idol or not, Chantry being empty or filled to the ears with little Andrastians... it was the symbol that the chantry represented.  Elthina could have been in the Gallows with everyone saying "My flock! its just a building!!" and no one would have listened.  A little like no one listens to Sebastian when he is screaming that the one resposible is RIGHT THERE!!!

Everyone in the city has an IQ of 50. That's what I felt like the whole time and I was actually frustrated because of it. I like a little of self-awareness in my NPCs.

True...

Right now I am starting to think that elthina wants to be the sacrificial lamb.  She knows its coming... even with her "no one would dare to hurt me" I feel its crossing her mind and maybe she sees no other way to go about it.  The chantry will be hurt one way or another and she knows she will pay the consequence.  Her death in her mind may be a way to lance the wound.

[shiba5]

Kawamura wrote...

And if we're talking about Discworld... *points down to signature* I love Vimes. And Vetinari. And DEATH. And --

Well. I like them all.

I always liked Rincewind, the "Wizzard",and his Luggage, but he doesn't write them into the new books too often anymore.

[Kawamura]

shiba5 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

And if we're talking about Discworld... *points down to signature* I love Vimes. And Vetinari. And DEATH. And --

Well. I like them all.

I always liked Rincewind, the "Wizzard",and his Luggage, but he doesn't write them into the new books too often anymore.

Ah, Rincewind.

I like the Watch-centric books more, so it works for me. First Discworld book I read was Small Gods, so it's not even that it's a "I like the storyline I came across first" thing. Though reading Small Gods then the Watch books makes both Constable Visit and Vetinari waaaaay better. Visit's just funnier then, and Vetinari -- well, I can see what a world where Vetinari doesn't like people looks like.

[Threeparts]

Ha, I haven't seen that before. On this run I slept with Fenris, then Isabela, and now I'm worming my way into Anders' affections. I put off visiting him for any of his Act II quests until I had bedded those two, and now that I go for Visit Anders, he's treating Seneschal Bran for an 'itch' instead of Izzy. Hawke is going to smirk so hard next time she sees him at the Keep.

I can't help but imagine Izzy and Fenris, both of whom are wearing Hawke's favours and standing around in the background, feeling slightly uncomfortable as I'm telling Anders I want to keep him safe and getting the "drown us in blood" line in return. Sorry guys, the prettiest hobo is far too irresistible.

[Kawamura]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...



See, I'm not buying it because before you do anything for anyone in the game you're blowing up angry refugees in the streets and working for mercenaries. Seriously, Hawke basically was a walking billboard for apostates.

At least Meredith noticed.

Not gonna lie. When she was like "I'll overlook your use of magic", I wanted to be like "heh, it's not magic, it's, uh, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors and a tiny dragon, really."

[MorningBird]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

See, I'm not buying it because before you do anything for anyone in the game you're blowing up angry refugees in the streets and working for mercenaries. Seriously, Hawke basically was a walking billboard for apostates.

I... didn't blow up any refugees.  I told them I was from Ferelden and they let me be.  Most of the street fights I had were either at night (very few people around), in Darktown (which Anders says is the best place to be if you want to disappear, due to the surplus of refugees), or in a sewer/underground/in a warehouse (out of sight.)

The only fight I remember occurring in broad daylight was the one at the docks (rescuing Harrowmont.)

If you're blowing up people in broad daylight (and refugees at that) it's possible the templars simply believed Hawke to be 'above' the danger level of run-of-the-mill apostates, and that they were putting together a plan of action to corner him/her when/where they'd be at the most disadvantage, only to have him/her disappear into the Deep Roads before they could move in.

That's essentially what they do to Bethany.  They wait until she's separated from her entourage (giving them the advantage of numbers) and surrounded by family (people SHE would endanger if she engaged the templars in a fight.)

Modifié par MorningBird, 27 mars 2011 - 05:37 .

[shiba5]

Kawamura wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

And if we're talking about Discworld... *points down to signature* I love Vimes. And Vetinari. And DEATH. And --

Well. I like them all.

I always liked Rincewind, the "Wizzard",and his Luggage, but he doesn't write them into the new books too often anymore.

Ah, Rincewind.

I like the Watch-centric books more, so it works for me. First Discworld book I read was Small Gods, so it's not even that it's a "I like the storyline I came across first" thing. Though reading Small Gods then the Watch books makes both Constable Visit and Vetinari waaaaay better. Visit's just funnier then, and Vetinari -- well, I can see what a world where Vetinari doesn't like people looks like.

If Anders had The Luggage, he wouldn't have needed to blow up the chantry. The Luggage would have eaten the Grand Cleric... and Sebastian.

(I got like 3 hours of sleep last night so I am feeling silly.)

[Kawamura]

shiba5 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

And if we're talking about Discworld... *points down to signature* I love Vimes. And Vetinari. And DEATH. And --

Well. I like them all.

I always liked Rincewind, the "Wizzard",and his Luggage, but he doesn't write them into the new books too often anymore.

Ah, Rincewind.

I like the Watch-centric books more, so it works for me. First Discworld book I read was Small Gods, so it's not even that it's a "I like the storyline I came across first" thing. Though reading Small Gods then the Watch books makes both Constable Visit and Vetinari waaaaay better. Visit's just funnier then, and Vetinari -- well, I can see what a world where Vetinari doesn't like people looks like.

If Anders had The Luggage, he wouldn't have needed to blow up the chantry. The Luggage would have eaten the Grand Cleric... and Sebastian.

(I got like 3 hours of sleep last night so I am feeling silly.)

Heeeeh.

Yes, and not only would  he not need to, I assure you, Vetinari wouldn't let him. Neither would Vimes. Christ. Vimes would be preeeeeeeety upset if someone tried to blow up his city.

[cinderburster]

Kawamura wrote...
I ... don't know that I'd say he's "decent". But I got a definition of decent that starts really excluding people that see things too much in black and white.

He's not a bad guy. He's usually  good. He could do with some empathy, but sometimes religious fervour makes you forget that. And no, he can't handle folks like Anders and Hawke. To be fair, I don' t know that I'd be able to handle folks like Anders.

And if we're talking about Discworld... *points down to signature* I love Vimes. And Vetinari. And DEATH. And --

Well. I like them all.

Off-topic, but I just had to /highfive another Discworld fan.   You have good taste in characters, oh yes.

[Kawamura]

cinderburster wrote...

Off-topic, but I just had to /highfive another Discworld fan.   You have good taste in characters, oh yes.

High-fives!

I imagine reading Discworld makes all characters more difficult to hate. Nothing teaches empathy like Discworld.

Oh, and remembering we're all sorta the same material. But, Discworld!

[elenilote]

shiba5 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

And if we're talking about Discworld... *points down to signature* I love Vimes. And Vetinari. And DEATH. And --

Well. I like them all.

I always liked Rincewind, the "Wizzard",and his Luggage, but he doesn't write them into the new books too often anymore.

Ah, Rincewind.

I like the Watch-centric books more, so it works for me. First Discworld book I read was Small Gods, so it's not even that it's a "I like the storyline I came across first" thing. Though reading Small Gods then the Watch books makes both Constable Visit and Vetinari waaaaay better. Visit's just funnier then, and Vetinari -- well, I can see what a world where Vetinari doesn't like people looks like.

If Anders had The Luggage, he wouldn't have needed to blow up the chantry. The Luggage would have eaten the Grand Cleric... and Sebastian.

(I got like 3 hours of sleep last night so I am feeling silly.)

They should have sent Cohen to sort out the templars ("may I venture to suggest therefore that you refrain from phrases like "I would rather die than betray my Emperor" or "Go ahead and do your worst" unless you redly, really[/i] mean them...")  

[shiba5]

Kawamura wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...



See, I'm not buying it because before you do anything for anyone in the game you're blowing up angry refugees in the streets and working for mercenaries. Seriously, Hawke basically was a walking billboard for apostates.

At least Meredith noticed.

Not gonna lie. When she was like "I'll overlook your use of magic", I wanted to be like "heh, it's not magic, it's, uh, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors and a tiny dragon, really."

After the finally battle, I was kinda hoping there would be a chance where she might beg for her life and I could say something about not being able to overlook her use of magic. "I could have looked the other way, but then you flew 100 feet up into the air and did a backflip. Die hypocrite."

[Kawamura]

shiba5 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...



See, I'm not buying it because before you do anything for anyone in the game you're blowing up angry refugees in the streets and working for mercenaries. Seriously, Hawke basically was a walking billboard for apostates.

At least Meredith noticed.

Not gonna lie. When she was like "I'll overlook your use of magic", I wanted to be like "heh, it's not magic, it's, uh, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors and a tiny dragon, really."

After the finally battle, I was kinda hoping there would be a chance where she might beg for her life and I could say something about not being able to overlook her use of magic. "I could have looked the other way, but then you flew 100 feet up into the air and did a backflip. Die hypocrite."

"'The Order dictates' ... that I gotta kill a crazy biatch.

Sorry 'bout that."

Though, arguably, Templars are doing something magic-like anyways. They drink lyrium and do anti-magic. Which is magic-y.

[Threeparts]

Kawamura wrote...

Though, arguably, Templars are doing something magic-like anyways. They drink lyrium and do anti-magic. Which is magic-y.

But they do it in the name of the Maker, which makes it all right. <_<

[Sylph_14]

That makes me wonder. The Harrowing basically sicks a demon onto a young mage, but how exactly do they get that done? Does the First Enchanter or somesuch summon it?

[Kawamura]

Threeparts wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Though, arguably, Templars are doing something magic-like anyways. They drink lyrium and do anti-magic. Which is magic-y.

But they do it in the name of the Maker, which makes it all right. <_<

Magic shall serve man, and never rule over him.

Unless it's mages. Because, srsly, **** mages.

I'm already used to double standards. I live my life with doublestandards. I probably wouldn't know how to breathe without double standards. So it's not so bad.

[ipgd]

Kawamura wrote...

Magic shall serve man, and never rule over him.

Tell me I'm not the only one who always hears this quote in the voice of that old chanter lady in Denerim.

[pagerunner]

cinderburster wrote...

Kawamura wrote...
I ... don't know that I'd say he's "decent". But I got a definition of decent that starts really excluding people that see things too much in black and white.

He's not a bad guy. He's usually  good. He could do with some empathy, but sometimes religious fervour makes you forget that. And no, he can't handle folks like Anders and Hawke. To be fair, I don' t know that I'd be able to handle folks like Anders.

And if we're talking about Discworld... *points down to signature* I love Vimes. And Vetinari. And DEATH. And --

Well. I like them all.

Off-topic, but I just had to /highfive another Discworld fan.   You have good taste in characters, oh yes.

Now I'm imagining a drunken Anders in the Hanged Man singing "A Wizard's Staff Has a Knob on the End" and I can't stop giggling.

And I can only imagine what Aveline and Vimes would think of each other....  (or, for that matter, Angua.  Or anyone else in the Watch, really. 

Modifié par pagerunner, 27 mars 2011 - 06:03 .