57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Inzhuna]

That brings us back to my question, dantares. Is Anders even able to die? I really don't think so. Justice can keep him alive as long as he wants. That's the horror of it. Anders wants to die so much by the endgame, but Justice won't let him.

[Ninche]

Batteries wrote...

Ninche wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Kim Shepard wrote...

Batteries wrote...

I approve seeing Justice at some point if you killed Anders. Justice from Awakenings, I mean. Not what he turned into, assuming his transformation into Vengeance isn't kinda permanent.

Or maybe he'll stay Vengeance and come after Hawke for killing him. o_o

It would be cool to see Awakening Justice again. But also really sad, if Anders had to be killed for that to happen.

I'd love to hear what Awakenings Justice would of thought about what happened.

I still think that the moment when tranquil Karl experiences emotion again because of Justice bursting out of Anders is key. I know that tranquility is Anders'worst fear and it would be horrible to put him through it but maybe it would mean separation from Justice. 

I don't even know if it's possible to make Anders tranquil.
But in my own game, I'd never do that to him. I'd rather kill him before that.

We obviously wouldn't but we know who would. If it does happen and Anders gets captured by The Chantry and they attempt to make him tranquil and it turns out he is immune or it doesnt sever his connection to the fade but kills Justice, I think it will make for a beautiful irony and turn the whole merging with Justice thing very bitter-sweet.

[Ninche]

Inzhuna wrote...

That brings us back to my question, dantares. Is Anders even able to die? I really don't think so. Justice can keep him alive as long as he wants. That's the horror of it. Anders wants to die so much by the endgame, but Justice won't let him.

Well it would be good for Hawke to give him a reason to keep living!

[Hellosanta]

Trophonius wrote...

Kim Shepard wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

Rivalmance felt more rewarding to me. I guess you could call it a preference for tempestuous relationships, but friendmancing Anders was too....accordant. As if you're agreeing with almost everything he does, without question, which could start to look like blind devotion. With rivalmance, you get the sense that Anders is fighting harder to control Justice rather than admitting defeat by allowing Justice to swallow him whole. No doubt, there's still love and understanding, but it doesn't always have to be the cooperative kind.

When my Hawkes agree with Anders, it's because they have the same views as he does, not because of blind devotion. Naturally, they wouldn't question following through with something they believed in before they even met Anders...

It just felt that way by Act 2 when he starts going on about you making him feel better about leading a revolution. Hawke can say, "together we'll win this fight", which only serves to encourage the things Anders does later on. One of the only few times you can call him out on it is by saying, "fine, but I won't forget that you blackmailed me to get it". As opposed to a rivalmance path where you can immediately detect his lies and say that you refuse to be anyone's pawn. Rival!Hawke isn't argumentative for the sake of being a jerk. He actually does these things to protect Anders by the way he says, "I don't want to support a mad cause that will get you hanged".

What I'm trying to say is that I think rivalmance is only slightly better due to the sheer knowledge that you were able to discourage him and rethink his approach.

If you rivalmance him .. Hawke's responses are very much like pro-templar. I like that I can correct Anders that he should not have merged with Justice but I don't like that I have to say that Anders needs to give up the fight against templar. So if I do rivalmance it feels a bit awakard to side with mage at the end (in order to save Anders). Pro-templar, rivalmancing Anders and killing Anders works together, but I've felt really bad in this playthrough. 

[Periph]

Ninche wrote...

Batteries wrote...

Kim Shepard wrote...

Batteries wrote...

I
approve seeing Justice at some point if you killed Anders. Justice from Awakenings, I mean. Not what he turned into, assuming his transformation into Vengeance isn't kinda permanent.

Or maybe he'll stay Vengeance and come after Hawke for killing him. o_o

It would be cool to see Awakening Justice again. But also really sad, if Anders had to be killed for that to happen.

I'd love to hear what Awakenings Justice would of thought about what happened.

I still think that the moment when tranquil Karl experiences emotion again because of Justice bursting out of Anders is key. I know that tranquility is Anders'worst fear and it would be horrible to put him through it but maybe it would mean separation from Justice. 

Tranquility seems to pretty much remove the personality from the body though. Karl got it back briefly, sure, but
otherwise he and Anders seemed to agree that he was incurably gone. If Anders was made Tranquil and he wasn't somehow immune, it could possibly render Anders tranquil normally and release Justice, separating them back out, but I keep wondering if it might instead sever the combined Venganderstice being, and then who knows what could happen. Or it could leave an Anders-tainted Justice separate from a Justice-tainted tranquil Anders, or any number of other variations. I suppose it all depends on how much Anders and Justice really have blended, and I'm not sure even they actually know that.

Modifié par Periph, 29 mars 2011 - 10:43 .

[dantares83]

Inzhuna wrote...

That brings us back to my question, dantares. Is Anders even able to die? I really don't think so. Justice can keep him alive as long as he wants. That's the horror of it. Anders wants to die so much by the endgame, but Justice won't let him.

if you romanced him, he will see the errors of his way. I do believe that the expansion will be about him and Justice. Because it is such a major cliffhanger. Did Justice leave him or not (if you stabbed him)? Nobody knows. We know that Faith can bring Wynne back to life a number of times (e.g. appearing in DAA when u have actually killed her) and also in the game itself.

So with the Anders's Valentine Day Story and the game never actually showing us that Justice had left, I made to believe that he is still alive.

[Sjofn]

I never once said Anders should give up the fight against the templars when I rivaled him. In fact, one time I straight up shamed him into continuing the fight (he was all "waaaaah I almost killed that mage" and I was all "suck it up, princess" and he was like "goddammit I hate when you're right"). I mostly focused on "You are doing it the crazypants way" and "PS: You seriously are an abomination, let's not mince words here."

Some of my actions were pro-templar, sure, like telling mages that seemed wishywashy on escaping the Circle to just go back and handing Feynriel over to the Circle instead of the Dalish (given he hates blood mages and Merril trained as a mage with the Dalish and look how THAT turned out), but I was actually pretty middle of the road.

It helped, of course, when he started to realize that 98% of the apostates in Kirkwall apparently love demons and blood magic. And he's a hardass, all that "boo hoo they're being pushed to it" doesn't work on him.

[Inzhuna]

Sjofn wrote...

I never once said Anders should give up the fight against the templars when I rivaled him. In fact, one time I straight up shamed him into continuing the fight (he was all "waaaaah I almost killed that mage" and I was all "suck it up, princess" and he was like "goddammit I hate when you're right"). I mostly focused on "You are doing it the crazypants way" and "PS: You seriously are an abomination, let's not mince words here."

Some of my actions were pro-templar, sure, like telling mages that seemed wishywashy on escaping the Circle to just go back and handing Feynriel over to the Circle instead of the Dalish (given he hates blood mages and Merril trained as a mage with the Dalish and look how THAT turned out), but I was actually pretty middle of the road.

It helped, of course, when he started to realize that 98% of the apostates in Kirkwall apparently love demons and blood magic. And he's a hardass, all that "boo hoo they're being pushed to it" doesn't work on him.

Agree so much.
Also on the topic of Anders being a hardass, I LOVED when my aggressive!Hawke told him 'Give me the maps or else', he replied in the most hardass way possible 'Don't threaten me, little girl'.
I swooned so much.

[Dunizel]

dantares83 wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

That brings us back to my question, dantares. Is Anders even able to die? I really don't think so. Justice can keep him alive as long as he wants. That's the horror of it. Anders wants to die so much by the endgame, but Justice won't let him.

if you romanced him, he will see the errors of his way. I do believe that the expansion will be about him and Justice. Because it is such a major cliffhanger. Did Justice leave him or not (if you stabbed him)? Nobody knows. We know that Faith can bring Wynne back to life a number of times (e.g. appearing in DAA when u have actually killed her) and also in the game itself.

So with the Anders's Valentine Day Story and the game never actually showing us that Justice had left, I made to believe that he is still alive.

I am also persuaded that if they need him, or want him, they can easily bring him back to whatever kind of *life* they want. Even as a Vengeance driven body (not Anders anymore). As you say, we have seen Wynne, who was much more tired and exhausted than him, and we have his short story. Sure, you can say this time he wanted to die...but did Vengeance agree? I was already worried by the increasing appeal the world outside the Fade was having on Justice in Awakening. I doubt he would go back to the Fade (and seems like he can't...or at least it was somewhat implied at the beginning that he is trapped outside). We have seen how thay explained his dead body at Vigil's Keep (it was epic btw, he died surrounded but hundreds of Darkspawn...the explaination he gives Nate just doesn't stand, there weren't many mages who could pull out that stunt, and I'm sure Nate would recognize him...he just gives up arguing in the Deep Roads).

The only problem is that bringing him back negates such an important choice in the playthrough of people who killed him. I don't think that killing Leliana was such an important moment in Origins to be honest...while killing Anders is like the climax of DA2.

Still, as long as he doesn't turn in a Vengeance zombie, moar Anders is fine for me!

Camilladilla wrote...

Found new dialogue for Anders!

Okay... I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.

I can't stop looking at it.

[Inzhuna]

@ Camilladilla
I died laughing XD I want to see the actual commercial though! And now I am craving for a Twix...

[YamiSnuffles]

Okay, so catching up on what I've missed while sleeping. Friendship vs. Rivalry has come up again? Seriously? I think I have mastered just blanking out whenever this conversation comes up.

Kim Shepard wrote...

I think that would work for all of my Hawkes, trying out daredevil stunts and making Carver all worried. He must have hated the family visits from my Kane Amell more than anything though.

Kane: Of course I can levitate Carver!
Carver: Noooooo. D:
Bethany: Hey Kane, look at the pretty bird!
Kane: Where? *concentration broken, drops Carver*

And so his resentment towards mages begins.

Love it.

Considering I had similar, non-magical things happen with my siblings, this will now be part of my head-canon. Except... slightly different since my canon Hawke was a warrior. I'll just imagine she encouraged Bethany to try levitating Carver, then spaced on what they were doing.

Adelynne: Beth, try levitating Carver.
Bethany: Hey, I'm doing it!
Carver: Aaargh!
Adelynne: I'm hungry. Let's see if supper's ready.
*Bethany drops Carver without thinking as they prance off in search of food*

Camilladilla wrote...

Found new dialogue for Anders!

Okay... I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.

I laughed so hard. My husband just shook his head and said, "I don't know what to think about that."

XD

[cleosilver]

Ninche wrote...

Sorry to dive into a topiv from twopages back, but am I the only person who actually ENJOYED being a beacon of light and hope for Anders? First playthrough my mage was a sarcastic tough girl who cared little for people beyond the circle of her family and closest friends. All the way up to the end of Act 3 she didn't really care she was a hope and idol for mages or w/e but it made her happy she was the living proof that her partner's dreams coudl come true. I also enjoyed being lavished in his affections and I really don't get why you'd say you don't feel his love. If anything I feel his love more than I felt Alistair's when he dumped me because I couldn't make any babies. You could call Anders weak in that respect -he knows you would be better off without him, he doesn't want to involve you and make you a fugitive but his love makes him weak with need so he asks you to be with him over and over again. I find that beautiful - he will become a historical figure and a legend of great importance for Thedas in the future, he will be almost inhuman in the stories they will be telling about him in a 100 years. But the man who did exist was in love and that love was the most importaint thing in his life. Unfortunately at the time there were things more importaint than them both, but it didn't mean they couldn't have a loving and meaningful relationship while fighting. That's how I see it

There's a line in one of the dialogues that pretty much summed up my magehawke's attitude. Something like " I don't care about the politics. I just don't want to see the templars lock you up"

On another note. I must figure out how to capture the cut scenes. I realy want to get a shot of the chantry blowing up followed by the scene from awakenings where Anders turns round and goes "Uh.. I didn't do it" 

[Inzhuna]

cleosilver, search for a program called FRAPS. I think that's what most people use. It's free.

And LOL your idea is so wrong... but I wanna see it XD

[Rinji the Bearded]

At first I was all at that sound clip of devastated!Anders.

And then I was all at the twix commercial video edit.

Thank you Anders thread for making my morning a bipolar one.

[LastFadingSmile]

Camilladilla wrote...

Found new dialogue for Anders!

Okay... I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.

Hooooooo boy.  :happy:  This link shall live on in perpetuity in my signature.

[YamiSnuffles]

RinjiRenee wrote...

At first I was all at that sound clip of devastated!Anders.

And then I was all at the twix commercial video edit.

Thank you Anders thread for making my morning a bipolar one.

I keep going back and forth between them now. It has made for a truly spastic morning.

[SidheKate]

Inzhuna wrote...

Hey, everyone! I just re-read the short story about Anders. And it says there he can't die by normal means. One of the grey wardens runs him through with a sword and it does nothing. How then can Hawke kill him?
On a related note, how can Justice leave Anders's body, how exactly does that work, if anyone knows? As I recall, Justice could only leave Kristoff's body once it was so rotten it couldn't function anymore. Anders says, once he dies, at least Justice will be free. But if his soul is intertwined with Justice so much that you can't tell where one begins and the other ends, how can Justice ever be separated, even after Anders's death (who according to the short story apparently can't die?)

This is hurting my brain.

The beauty of fantasy writing is that the writing team can do anything they want to with the situation. 

The way I personally read it is that Anders/Justice/Vengeance was ready to let go at the moment when Hawke makes the decision to kill him (or not, as the case may be).  Anders and Justice made a deal - they would work together to do whatever it took to free the mages from the Circle.  I think that either 1) on the friendship track, the two of them have merged and the being called "Anders" has concluded that this action is the one he must do, whatever the consequences or 2) on the rivalry track, Vengeance on his own has concluded that this is the required action.   In either event, the successful removal of compromise fulfills the objective, and it is okay if death comes. 

So, I personally believe if Anders dies at Hawke's hand, that Vengeance's grasp on him is released (by choice) and Anders is, in the saddest way possible, set free. 

The way that the writers have set up the world, I agree with you that it is not the required outcome. The spirit could certain choose to keep the body animated even after the heart has stopped beating.  Furthermore, as a healer, Anders is probably capable (with the spirit's power helping out) to heal himself through mortal wounds.  But I think Justice/Vengeance is ready to let go once the goal has been accomplished.   Not that I can stand killing him, but I'm not convinced the writers made it the wrong option, even for those who adore Anders.  Hurray for morally ambiguous choices! It's why I love Bioware.

Modifié par SidheKate, 29 mars 2011 - 01:24 .

[Inzhuna]

@ SidheKate
"But I think Justice/Vengeance is ready to let go once the goal has been accomplished."
What bugs is - can he even let go? They are merged now. Can Justice even separate himself from Anders's soul?
But yeah, I agree, that this situation is pretty much unprecedented so writers can take it any direction they want in a way that will make sense. And yes, I love the grey and grey morality of Dragon Age. I know a lot of people here feel strongly that supporting mages is a morally right thing to do, but I don't know. I think Bioware have managed to make the choice very complex and morally ambiguous.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Camilladilla wrote...

Found new dialogue for Anders!

Okay... I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.

What is this I don't even.

Bahahaha.

[Rinji the Bearded]

I don't know either but man I really, really want a Twix right now.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Not even Anders can make me want crappy candy.

[Rinji the Bearded]

DUDE IT'S ON NOW

I TOLERATED YOUR HAIRSTYLE BUT THEM'S FIGHTING WORDS

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

<-- "B*tch, please."

*z-snap*

Meanwhile Anders is in the corner munching Twix with big wibbly animoo eyes all excited about men fighting over him.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 29 mars 2011 - 02:10 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

<--- My baby-face is not nearly as fierce. ;_;

[cleosilver]

Inzhuna wrote...

cleosilver, search for a program called FRAPS. I think that's what most people use. It's free.

And LOL your idea is so wrong... but I wanna see it XD

I don't think anyone will actually believe him though


www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par cleosilver, 29 mars 2011 - 02:12 .