MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
To be fair, it's pretty horrible what he does. You don't necessarily avoid condemning a murderer just because by day he helped orphans.
Camilladilla wrote...
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
To be fair, it's pretty horrible what he does. You don't necessarily avoid condemning a murderer just because by day he helped orphans.
It's reprehensible, but at the same time the level of seething hatred some of the forumers have towards Anders just boggles my mind. It's the "I want him to come back so I can murder-knife him again, lawl" levels of vitriol that makes me sigh.
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.
ekkaja.marta wrote...
I actually thought that Sebastian presence in the scene after Chantry was destroyed added to the drama. Him promising to show Anders the true vengeance got me thinking - so he will have to go after Hawke, you know her being the most important thing in Anders life. Well Sebastian, better have tried and failed... terribly.
ipgd wrote...
The joke will be on him when Anders ends up exactly like Andraste, with his own creepy cult to boot :innocent:Trophonius wrote...
I second this alternative. That's what's so unattractive about Sebastian. He's vastly moralistic with only one narrow view of the world. When he told Anders that the Chantry will kill him, he goes on to pompously declare that Anders shouldn't compare himself to Andraste. Anders is doing something worthwhile for an ENTIRE group of people, while Sebastian sits idly, following Chantry principles and not doing a damn thing to change its injustices.
Camilladilla wrote...
I really like how so many people on these forums are so quick to condemn him for that one horrible act, which may or may not have been completely his fault, when he's spent at least seven years saving/helping people with little to no reward while putting his neck on the line at the same time.
Sialater wrote...
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.
1) An Exalted March had been called on Kirkwall.
2) He gave the mages in Kirkwall's circle a chance to fight, which they didn't have before because Orsino's a dick.
3) No one has ever said Anders' actions were tactically sound.
4) His goal was removing compromise. His timing SUCKED.
5) None of this was selfish.
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
Sialater wrote...
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.
1) An Exalted March had been called on Kirkwall.
2) He gave the mages in Kirkwall's circle a chance to fight, which they didn't have before because Orsino's a dick.
3) No one has ever said Anders' actions were tactically sound.
4) His goal was removing compromise. His timing SUCKED.
5) None of this was selfish.
It was selfish because he took it upon himself to make the decision regardless of his intentions. I'm sure not all those mages volunteered to go against an angry templar army, namely children that hadn't grown into their skill yet. It's unfair of him to decide for everyone.
Camilladilla wrote...
ekkaja.marta wrote...
I actually thought that Sebastian presence in the scene after Chantry was destroyed added to the drama. Him promising to show Anders the true vengeance got me thinking - so he will have to go after Hawke, you know her being the most important thing in Anders life. Well Sebastian, better have tried and failed... terribly.
My issue with Sebastian during that particular scene was actually how jarring his presence was since he didn't mesh well with the conversations. It was so painfully obvious to me that he was thrown in there that it ruined my sense of immersion knowing that he was a DLC and was cut and pasted into the whole affair.
And those weeeeeird faces he was making during the entire thing too <_<
I think he was pretty well aware of that. He wasn't trying to save the mages of Kirkwall by blowing up the chantry, he was trying to spark a confrontation that would escalate into a full-scale war where the mages would have no choice but to fight and free themselves or die trying. It's a foregone conclusion that many of them would be killed because of what he did, but it seems like he believes those deaths would be well worth the chance for freedom.MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.
Modifié par RinjiRenee, 29 mars 2011 - 09:38 .
Magaloo wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
Wake up in the morning feeling like Bill Nye. Brush my teeth with coffee black 'cause I ain't coming back until really late because I've got preform centrifugation and run my sample through gel electrophoresis. Sad my phone knew that word after only a few letters. :sobs:
there there it's ok...
Totally OT Bill Nye is awesome, I saw him once at Cornell and he was super cool /end fangirl but keep hummin Bill Bill Bill
Edit Because Threeparts: I like Sebastian. I admire is dedication in a way and though I feel like **** slapping him probably more than even he deserve I enjoy having him around. I also think that is little tantrum adds to the whole dramatic feel of the last showdown. It puts the feeling of Hawke for Anders even more on the line.
Sialater wrote...
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
Sialater wrote...
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.
1) An Exalted March had been called on Kirkwall.
2) He gave the mages in Kirkwall's circle a chance to fight, which they didn't have before because Orsino's a dick.
3) No one has ever said Anders' actions were tactically sound.
4) His goal was removing compromise. His timing SUCKED.
5) None of this was selfish.
It was selfish because he took it upon himself to make the decision regardless of his intentions. I'm sure not all those mages volunteered to go against an angry templar army, namely children that hadn't grown into their skill yet. It's unfair of him to decide for everyone.
No one told the other Circles to rebel and make him/Hawke their own Guy Fawkes.
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
Sialater wrote...
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.
1) An Exalted March had been called on Kirkwall.
2) He gave the mages in Kirkwall's circle a chance to fight, which they didn't have before because Orsino's a dick.
3) No one has ever said Anders' actions were tactically sound.
4) His goal was removing compromise. His timing SUCKED.
5) None of this was selfish.
It was selfish because he took it upon himself to make the decision regardless of his intentions. I'm sure not all those mages volunteered to go against an angry templar army, namely children that hadn't grown into their skill yet. It's unfair of him to decide for everyone.
Camilladilla wrote...
ekkaja.marta wrote...
I actually thought that Sebastian presence in the scene after Chantry was destroyed added to the drama. Him promising to show Anders the true vengeance got me thinking - so he will have to go after Hawke, you know her being the most important thing in Anders life. Well Sebastian, better have tried and failed... terribly.
My issue with Sebastian during that particular scene was actually how jarring his presence was since he didn't mesh well with the conversations. It was so painfully obvious to me that he was thrown in there that it ruined my sense of immersion knowing that he was a DLC and was cut and pasted into the whole affair.
And those weeeeeird faces he was making during the entire thing too <_<
ipgd wrote...
I think he was pretty well aware of that. He wasn't trying to save the mages of Kirkwall by blowing up the chantry, he was trying to spark a confrontation that would escalate into a full-scale war where the mages would have no choice but to fight and free themselves or die trying. It's a foregone conclusion that many of them would be killed because of what he did, but it seems like he believes those deaths would be well worth the chance for freedom.MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.
I think that was part of the point. He was creating a situation where even the most conservative, non-confrontational mages wouldn't be able to sit by the sidelines. He made certain that mages would now have exactly two options, fight or die. I certainly wouldn't call it "fair", but he seems to believe it "necessary".MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
It was selfish because he took it upon himself to make the decision regardless of his intentions. I'm sure not all those mages volunteered to go against an angry templar army, namely children that hadn't grown into their skill yet. It's unfair of him to decide for everyone.
Modifié par ipgd, 29 mars 2011 - 09:38 .
See I thought that scene made more sense with Sebastian in it. And yes, more drama- him falling to his knees etc.Camilladilla wrote...
ekkaja.marta wrote...
I actually thought that Sebastian presence in the scene after Chantry was destroyed added to the drama. Him promising to show Anders the true vengeance got me thinking - so he will have to go after Hawke, you know her being the most important thing in Anders life. Well Sebastian, better have tried and failed... terribly.
My issue with Sebastian during that particular scene was actually how jarring his presence was since he didn't mesh well with the conversations. It was so painfully obvious to me that he was thrown in there that it ruined my sense of immersion knowing that he was a DLC and was cut and pasted into the whole affair.
And those weeeeeird faces he was making during the entire thing too <_<
Let's not bring real world examples into this. Thedas is an entirely different reality.MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
ipgd wrote...
I think he was pretty well aware of that. He wasn't trying to save the mages of Kirkwall by blowing up the chantry, he was trying to spark a confrontation that would escalate into a full-scale war where the mages would have no choice but to fight and free themselves or die trying. It's a foregone conclusion that many of them would be killed because of what he did, but it seems like he believes those deaths would be well worth the chance for freedom.MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.
Well it's clear he wasn't trying to save anyone. He says so himself. It's fine if he believes those deaths will be worth it but he's not exactly of sound mind to be making decisions for everyone. That's what I'm trying to get at. MLK didn't gain equality by blowing up Capital Hill.
silver-crescent wrote...
Did anyone else find it odd that in 2 or 3 years apparently no one found out it had been Anders who blew up the Chantry?
I guess it must have been because out of the little group that saw his confession, everyone ended up either dead or gone, but still it's a bit odd.
Modifié par RinjiRenee, 29 mars 2011 - 09:41 .
ipgd wrote...
I think that was part of the point. He was creating a situation where even the most conservative, non-confrontational mages wouldn't be able to sit by the sidelines. He made certain that mages would now have exactly two options, fight or die. I certainly wouldn't call it "fair", but he seems to believe it "necessary".MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
It was selfish because he took it upon himself to make the decision regardless of his intentions. I'm sure not all those mages volunteered to go against an angry templar army, namely children that hadn't grown into their skill yet. It's unfair of him to decide for everyone.
silver-crescent wrote...
Did anyone else find it odd that in 2 or 3 years apparently no one found out it had been Anders who blew up the Chantry?
I guess it must have been because out of the little group that saw his confession, everyone ended up either dead or gone, but still it's a bit odd.
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