57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Camilladilla]

silver-crescent wrote...

Did anyone else find it odd that in 2 or 3 years apparently no one found out it had been Anders who blew up the Chantry?

I guess it must have been because out of the little group that saw his confession, everyone ended up either dead or gone, but still it's a bit odd.

I was under the impression that it was widely known that Anders was responsible, but at the very least, a part of the Chantry, the seekers mainly, know that it was Anders.

Just seems like the Champion 'legends' are widespread, I wonder how much of it was accurate in the depiction of Anders' deed.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Sialater wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

ipgd wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.

I think he was pretty well aware of that. He wasn't trying to save the mages of Kirkwall by blowing up the chantry, he was trying to spark a confrontation that would escalate into a full-scale war where the mages would have no choice but to fight and free themselves or die trying. It's a foregone conclusion that many of them would be killed because of what he did, but it seems like he believes those deaths would be well worth the chance for freedom.

Well it's clear he wasn't trying to save anyone. He says so himself. It's fine if he believes those deaths will be worth it but he's not exactly of sound mind to be making decisions for everyone. That's what I'm trying to get at. MLK didn't gain equality by blowing up Capital Hill.

Let's not bring real world examples into this.  Thedas is an entirely different reality.

Why not? Writting is inspired by the real world. You take what you know and build upon it.

[Trophonius]

silver-crescent wrote...

Did anyone else find it odd that in 2 or 3 years apparently no one found out it had been Anders who blew up the Chantry?

I guess it must have been because out of the little group that saw his confession, everyone ended up either dead or gone, but still it's a bit odd.

If I remember correctly, Varric mentions Anders blowing up the chantry in the epilogue so it's widely known he was responsible.

Unless you mean something else?

Modifié par Trophonius, 29 mars 2011 - 09:43 .

[Threeparts]

Periph wrote...

Part of his point was that there will never stop being new child mages and there won't be a good time for a revolution. Waiting for everyone to agree or master their magic is the same as deciding to never make a move.

O HAI ELTHINA.

The Viscount sat on his hands with the Qunari; Elthina just kept telling everyone to be patient and wait it out; the Arishok was right about the nobles: none of them bothered to look around and try to fix the situation. Meredith refused to allow a new viscount to step up, Orsino was trying to hold his own but was incapable to stop the abuse or the escapes.

Is it bad that the one person whose advice I ended up taking in this game was Flemeth? People were incapable or unwilling to solve these problems, so Hawke ended up being the one to take the leap, over and over. The Witch told the truth, after all: thrown into the chaos, Hawke fought, and never really stopped. 

[ipgd]

silver-crescent wrote...

Did anyone else find it odd that in 2 or 3 years apparently no one found out it had been Anders who blew up the Chantry?

I guess it must have been because out of the little group that saw his confession, everyone ended up either dead or gone, but still it's a bit odd.

Does anyone give any indication that people don't know who was reponsible for the destruction of the chantry? Cassandra certainly used Anders's name with enough disdain to know what he did, but it's never addressed directly in the prior interrogation sequences for the obvious reason of "it would spoil the game".

I'd be pretty surprised if Anders doesn't end up a huge figure in future sequels, whether he's a revolutionary or a martyr.

[Sialater]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Sialater wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

ipgd wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.

I think he was pretty well aware of that. He wasn't trying to save the mages of Kirkwall by blowing up the chantry, he was trying to spark a confrontation that would escalate into a full-scale war where the mages would have no choice but to fight and free themselves or die trying. It's a foregone conclusion that many of them would be killed because of what he did, but it seems like he believes those deaths would be well worth the chance for freedom.

Well it's clear he wasn't trying to save anyone. He says so himself. It's fine if he believes those deaths will be worth it but he's not exactly of sound mind to be making decisions for everyone. That's what I'm trying to get at. MLK didn't gain equality by blowing up Capital Hill.

Let's not bring real world examples into this.  Thedas is an entirely different reality.

Why not? Writting is inspired by the real world. You take what you know and build upon it.

Because peaceful marches, sit-ins, and hunger-strikes wouldn't work in a medieval society where might makes right.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

RinjiRenee wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Did anyone else find it odd that in 2 or 3 years apparently no one found out it had been Anders who blew up the Chantry?

I guess it must have been because out of the little group that saw his confession, everyone ended up either dead or gone, but still it's a bit odd.

Oh, I think they *knew,* but somehow thought that it was all part of Hawke's plan, and the he/she was ultimately responsible.

And hey, maybe they are!

Yeah, they know. What they want to find out is Hawke's level of involvement is in the events of Kirkwall.

[Sjofn]

silver-crescent wrote...

Did anyone else find it odd that in 2 or 3 years apparently no one found out it had been Anders who blew up the Chantry?

I guess it must have been because out of the little group that saw his confession, everyone ended up either dead or gone, but still it's a bit odd.

Hm, I was under the impression they knew it was Anders, they just didn't know what really lead up to it, and they thought Hawke knew wtf was going on.

[silver-crescent]

I guess you are right. Now that I think about people probably did know Anders was involved, but thought it was Hawke's plan all along.

[Sialater]

Threeparts wrote...

Periph wrote...

Part of his point was that there will never stop being new child mages and there won't be a good time for a revolution. Waiting for everyone to agree or master their magic is the same as deciding to never make a move.

O HAI ELTHINA.

The Viscount sat on his hands with the Qunari; Elthina just kept telling everyone to be patient and wait it out; the Arishok was right about the nobles: none of them bothered to look around and try to fix the situation. Meredith refused to allow a new viscount to step up, Orsino was trying to hold his own but was incapable to stop the abuse or the escapes.

Is it bad that the one person whose advice I ended up taking in this game was Flemeth? People were incapable or unwilling to solve these problems, so Hawke ended up being the one to take the leap, over and over. The Witch told the truth, after all: thrown into the chaos, Hawke fought, and never really stopped. 

Margaret Hawke:  "I fight scared better than most people do angry."

[leggywillow]

silver-crescent wrote...

Did anyone else find it odd that in 2 or 3 years apparently no one found out it had been Anders who blew up the Chantry?

I guess it must have been because out of the little group that saw his confession, everyone ended up either dead or gone, but still it's a bit odd.

Oh, I think everyone knows.  Remember the pure disgust in Cassandra's voice when she mentions " that Warden, Anders"?

[Periph]

RinjiRenee wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Did anyone else find it odd that in 2 or 3 years apparently no one found out it had been Anders who blew up the Chantry?

I guess it must have been because out of the little group that saw his confession, everyone ended up either dead or gone, but still it's a bit odd.

Oh, I think they *knew,* but somehow thought that it was all part of Hawke's plan, and the he/she was ultimately responsible.

That's the impression I got. Cassandra's mention of "that warden, Anders" has enough contempt to it that I'm pretty sure she knew he was behind the bombing. She assumes that Hawke was behind Anders, though. The main thing Varric's explaining is that Hawke didn't go to Kirkwall to "spread subversion against the Chantry" and somehow orchestrate everything that happened.

ETA: Heh, sniped several times over. This thread moves fast.

Modifié par Periph, 29 mars 2011 - 09:48 .

[Kawamura]

Threeparts wrote...

Periph wrote...

Part of his point was that there will never stop being new child mages and there won't be a good time for a revolution. Waiting for everyone to agree or master their magic is the same as deciding to never make a move.

O HAI ELTHINA.

The Viscount sat on his hands with the Qunari; Elthina just kept telling everyone to be patient and wait it out; the Arishok was right about the nobles: none of them bothered to look around and try to fix the situation. Meredith refused to allow a new viscount to step up, Orsino was trying to hold his own but was incapable to stop the abuse or the escapes.

Is it bad that the one person whose advice I ended up taking in this game was Flemeth? People were incapable or unwilling to solve these problems, so Hawke ended up being the one to take the leap, over and over. The Witch told the truth, after all: thrown into the chaos, Hawke fought, and never really stopped. 

I know my Hawke did, too.

He kept muttering to himself, "is it chance or is it fate, I can never decide" and then he decided he hated his ****ty strory and wanted to petition for a lead role in something like Hard in Hightown: Seige Harder.

[Rinji the Bearded]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Sialater wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

ipgd wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.

I think he was pretty well aware of that. He wasn't trying to save the mages of Kirkwall by blowing up the chantry, he was trying to spark a confrontation that would escalate into a full-scale war where the mages would have no choice but to fight and free themselves or die trying. It's a foregone conclusion that many of them would be killed because of what he did, but it seems like he believes those deaths would be well worth the chance for freedom.

Well it's clear he wasn't trying to save anyone. He says so himself. It's fine if he believes those deaths will be worth it but he's not exactly of sound mind to be making decisions for everyone. That's what I'm trying to get at. MLK didn't gain equality by blowing up Capital Hill.

Let's not bring real world examples into this.  Thedas is an entirely different reality.

Why not? Writting is inspired by the real world. You take what you know and build upon it.

Because MLK wasn't fighting for the rights of people with extranormal powers who were being ripped from their families and being forced to live in prison conditions while at any one moment one person could make the decision to kill them all out of fear and no one outside the situation would question it because of religious doctrine and etc etc etc?

Yeah, kind of a poor example.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 29 mars 2011 - 09:46 .

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Sialater wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Sialater wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

ipgd wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.

I think he was pretty well aware of that. He wasn't trying to save the mages of Kirkwall by blowing up the chantry, he was trying to spark a confrontation that would escalate into a full-scale war where the mages would have no choice but to fight and free themselves or die trying. It's a foregone conclusion that many of them would be killed because of what he did, but it seems like he believes those deaths would be well worth the chance for freedom.

Well it's clear he wasn't trying to save anyone. He says so himself. It's fine if he believes those deaths will be worth it but he's not exactly of sound mind to be making decisions for everyone. That's what I'm trying to get at. MLK didn't gain equality by blowing up Capital Hill.

Let's not bring real world examples into this.  Thedas is an entirely different reality.

Why not? Writting is inspired by the real world. You take what you know and build upon it.

Because peaceful marches, sit-ins, and hunger-strikes wouldn't work in a medieval society where might makes right.

Or when you have a whole city whose whos collective intelligence was retarded by the writing staff.

[Camilladilla]

Sialater wrote...

Because peaceful marches, sit-ins, and hunger-strikes wouldn't work in a medieval society where might makes right.

Except in Thedas there's at least has been one documented success of peaceful sit-in, ironically concerning the founding of the Circle itself. A bunch of mages sat in the rafters of some building and refused to come down until the Chantry threw up their hands and let them stay isolated from the rest of the society. Someone with more codex-fu can expand on this more XD

Modifié par Camilladilla, 29 mars 2011 - 09:49 .

[Celestria129]

Just read "The Anderfets"(sp) codex and it says that Anders are People of Extremes.........

Anders blowing up the chantry..........would that be considered an "Extreme"........

anyway heres a Smiling Anders for everyone:

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

RinjiRenee wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Sialater wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

ipgd wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.

I think he was pretty well aware of that. He wasn't trying to save the mages of Kirkwall by blowing up the chantry, he was trying to spark a confrontation that would escalate into a full-scale war where the mages would have no choice but to fight and free themselves or die trying. It's a foregone conclusion that many of them would be killed because of what he did, but it seems like he believes those deaths would be well worth the chance for freedom.

Well it's clear he wasn't trying to save anyone. He says so himself. It's fine if he believes those deaths will be worth it but he's not exactly of sound mind to be making decisions for everyone. That's what I'm trying to get at. MLK didn't gain equality by blowing up Capital Hill.

Let's not bring real world examples into this.  Thedas is an entirely different reality.

Why not? Writting is inspired by the real world. You take what you know and build upon it.

Because MLK wasn't fighting for the rights of people with extranormal powers who were being ripped from their families and being forced to live in prison conditions while at any one moment one person could make the decision to kill them all out of fear and no one outside the situation would question it?

Yeah, kind of a poor example.

Powers aside they often lived in poor conditions due to being second class citizens and if history is any indication law enforcement turned the other cheek in many situations. The man who bombed the church is Alabama in the 60s wasn't brought to justice for like 40 years. People didn't question until many years later. There were no culling of the masses but lets be fair, they were treated like dirt.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Camilladilla wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Because peaceful marches, sit-ins, and hunger-strikes wouldn't work in a medieval society where might makes right.

Except in Thedas there's at least has been one documented success of peaceful sit-in, ironically concerning the founding of the Circle itself. A bunch of mages sat in the rafters of some building and refused to come down until the Chantry threw up their hands and let them stay isolated from the rest of the society. Someone with more codex-fu can expand on this more XD

Lol. You're right. I remember reading that one.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Celestria129 wrote...

Just read "The Anderfets"(sp) codex and it says that Anders are People of Extremes.........

Anders blowing up the chantry..........would that be considered an "Extreme"........

anyway heres a Smiling Anders for everyone:

I know he was taken away when he was young but I wish they kept the German accent.

[leggywillow]

Sialater wrote...

Because peaceful marches, sit-ins, and hunger-strikes wouldn't work in a medieval society where might makes right.

Plus that would be one hell of a boring video game.  No epic battles, no devastating explosions, no massive bloodshed?  Who would want to play that?

Edit: And no, I'm not being sarcastic.  Watching Anders organize a sit-in would have been hella dull.

Modifié par leggywillow, 29 mars 2011 - 09:52 .

[ipgd]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Why not? Writting is inspired by the real world. You take what you know and build upon it.

If you have to bring real life examples in it, Anders is a lot closer to lolche than MLK.

Lots of revolutions are started by acts of terrorism or violence, anyway. The only ones that get written off as evil by history are the ones that fail. If Anders's plan works, people will just conveniently forget how many people had to die in the process.

[Rinji the Bearded]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Sialater wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

ipgd wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I feel Anders was selfish taking upon such a drastic direction all on his own without considering the widespread consequences. He was aware he wasn't expected to survive but didn't consider the effect on his fellow mages. Granted he could not have predicted Meredith's insanity derived from the idol but it seems like he didn't think out the possibility that he may be signing a death warrant for his fellows. Like with Isabella I am forced to pick up the pieces of a poor decision my companions decided in their infinite wisdom to make. He said he preferred a quick death rather than a slow one but where did he get the ego to make that decision for everyone else. That alone doesn't sit well with me.

I think he was pretty well aware of that. He wasn't trying to save the mages of Kirkwall by blowing up the chantry, he was trying to spark a confrontation that would escalate into a full-scale war where the mages would have no choice but to fight and free themselves or die trying. It's a foregone conclusion that many of them would be killed because of what he did, but it seems like he believes those deaths would be well worth the chance for freedom.

Well it's clear he wasn't trying to save anyone. He says so himself. It's fine if he believes those deaths will be worth it but he's not exactly of sound mind to be making decisions for everyone. That's what I'm trying to get at. MLK didn't gain equality by blowing up Capital Hill.

Let's not bring real world examples into this.  Thedas is an entirely different reality.

Why not? Writting is inspired by the real world. You take what you know and build upon it.

Because MLK wasn't fighting for the rights of people with extranormal powers who were being ripped from their families and being forced to live in prison conditions while at any one moment one person could make the decision to kill them all out of fear and no one outside the situation would question it?

Yeah, kind of a poor example.

Powers aside they often lived in poor conditions due to being second class citizens and if history is any indication law enforcement turned the other cheek in many situations. The man who bombed the church is Alabama in the 60s wasn't brought to justice for like 40 years. People didn't question until many years later. There were no culling of the masses but lets be fair, they were treated like dirt.

African-Americans also did not have a special police force designed exactly to take them down.  I'm not saying that African-Americans were not mistreated, but their situation in no way can be compared to the mages in a fictional story.

How well would Anders would have been received if he were to march up to the Chantry and try to rouse public support?  He'd be branded a lunatic apostate and arrested on the spot, and the Chantry would have supported this and assured the public that he had been apprehended and absolutely nothing would have changed.  Anders cannot even reach out to his fellow mages because of how scared they are.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 29 mars 2011 - 09:54 .

[Sialater]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Camilladilla wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Because peaceful marches, sit-ins, and hunger-strikes wouldn't work in a medieval society where might makes right.

Except in Thedas there's at least has been one documented success of peaceful sit-in, ironically concerning the founding of the Circle itself. A bunch of mages sat in the rafters of some building and refused to come down until the Chantry threw up their hands and let them stay isolated from the rest of the society. Someone with more codex-fu can expand on this more XD

Lol. You're right. I remember reading that one.

I remember that.  I also don't think it applies on a hellmouth.

[silver-crescent]

Since I can't find the correct thread - are there any updates on the whole "getting Anders to side with the templars if you get full rivalry and convince him he was wrong" deal?