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[SurelyForth]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I'm not sure if people are already aware about the bug, but here goes -

So I got in touch with Jennifer Hepler via message. She sent out a note to the debuggers about how everyone is unable to access the Rivalry Pro-Templar Anders decision in Act 3 (I personally want this for my final game. I like seeing Anders realize just how bad things are, and I don't feel justified keeping him alive in any other situation unless it is to actually clean up his mess) - So they should be releasing a patch with that issue.

Just as a heeaadz up.

So Anders really is just a murderer. And one with a perfect scapegoat.

****. Well, that was fun while it lasted.

[Ninche]

- Songlian - wrote...

Ninche wrote...

Adding a broken Anders who can't tell what he's doing or who he's fighting for anymore just breaks my heart. 

Ah, we have a very different view on it, then. I wouldn't see it as breaking him, but convinving him that perhaps he's been acting rashly. Which he did, if you think about it objectively. 

Convincing him he has been acting rashly, or even wrongly is one thing, making him kill the innocents who were not responsible for his or Meredith's actions doesn't make any sense. Two wrongs don't make a right. 

[shiba5]

SurelyForth wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I'm not sure if people are already aware about the bug, but here goes -

So I got in touch with Jennifer Hepler via message. She sent out a note to the debuggers about how everyone is unable to access the Rivalry Pro-Templar Anders decision in Act 3 (I personally want this for my final game. I like seeing Anders realize just how bad things are, and I don't feel justified keeping him alive in any other situation unless it is to actually clean up his mess) - So they should be releasing a patch with that issue.

Just as a heeaadz up.

So Anders really is just a murderer. And one with a perfect scapegoat.

****. Well, that was fun while it lasted.

This ending makes zero sense to me unless he delievers the last line with his head slowing rotating around 360 degrees.  <_<

[SurelyForth]

Ninche wrote...

- Songlian - wrote...

Ah, we have a very different view on it, then. I wouldn't see it as breaking him, but convinving him that perhaps he's been acting rashly. Which he did, if you think about it objectively. 

Convincing him he has been acting rashly, or even wrongly is one thing, making him kill the innocents who were not responsible for his or Meredith's actions doesn't make any sense. Two wrongs don't make a right. 

This. God, I truly hate that they did this because it basically nullifies his character. It makes all of his conviction and brooding and anguish completely pointless and it turns his third act self from an **** to the biggest ****, and one with no justification for his ****ry.

[Jean]

www.youtube.com/watch

And he pretty much expects to die in the battle/be killed after the fact too if he goes that way.

I do want anyone who rivaled him to get a different speech from him at the end, but siding with the Templars?

I... Just don't get it.

[cleosilver]

Batteries wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

And he pretty much expects to die in the battle/be killed after the fact too if he goes that way.

I do want anyone who rivaled him to get a different speech from him at the end, but siding with the Templars?

I... Just don't get it.

Me neither. Convincing Anders to side with templars while they slaughter mages because of his actions makes even less sense than convincing Sebastian to agree not to kill Anders

[shiba5]

Batteries wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

And he pretty much expects to die in the battle/be killed after the fact too if he goes that way.

I do want anyone who rivaled him to get a different speech from him at the end, but siding with the Templars?

I... Just don't get it.

I think it would be one thing if he truly acted broken or insane in that scene, but no, he's all "whatever, let's go kill some mages, dear. I feel great."
It makes me hate the character.

[Camilladilla]

Batteries wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

And he pretty much expects to die in the battle/be killed after the fact too if he goes that way.

I do want anyone who rivaled him to get a different speech from him at the end, but siding with the Templars?

I... Just don't get it.

Yeah...

When I first heard of trying to get Anders to side with the templars I scoffed at the idea because well, it makes no friggin sense. Even back in Awakenings Anders preferred seeing templars dead... this is just... it kinda goes back to the issue I have with most bioware games. The fact that the PC can force characters to make decisions that flies in the face of everything they stand for. 

[SurelyForth]

Batteries wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

And he pretty much expects to die in the battle/be killed after the fact too if he goes that way.

I do want anyone who rivaled him to get a different speech from him at the end, but siding with the Templars?

I... Just don't get it.

Yeah, I think that the rival romance should get a totally different ending if you side with the mages, but that it should be ended if you go with the templars. This does NOT feel like it was done for the character (unless it's supposed to show how absolutely broken he can become) but for the players themselves. I guess they got a lot of **** over Alistair leaving if Loghain is spared, even though it was perfectly in character.

And, again, I have to ask: how would it make sense if Hawke is made Viscount and Anders is still alive and with him? It makes Kirkwallians the dumbest people on the planet, and it makes Hawke the biggest hypocrite ever that he would annul the Circle to help "set things right" but keep Anders around and so close to power despite the fact that it flies into the face of the Divine and should absolutely undo any goodwill garnered by...annuling the Circle.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 30 mars 2011 - 11:47 .

[Jean]

SurelyForth wrote...

Batteries wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

And he pretty much expects to die in the battle/be killed after the fact too if he goes that way.

I do want anyone who rivaled him to get a different speech from him at the end, but siding with the Templars?

I... Just don't get it.

Yeah, I think that the rival romance should get a totally different ending if you side with the mages, but that it should be ended if you go with the templars. This does NOT feel like it was done for the character (unless it's supposed to show how absolutely broken he can become) but for the players themselves. I guess they got a lot of **** over Alistair leaving if Loghain is spared, even though it was perfectly in character.

And, again, I have to ask: how would it make sense if Hawke is made Viscount and Anders is still alive and with him? It makes Kirkwallians the dumbest people on the planet, and it makes Hawke the biggest hypocrite ever that he would annul the Circle to help "set things right" but keep Anders around and so close to power despite the fact that it flies into the face of the Divine and should absolutely undo any goodwill garnered by...annuling the Circle.

^Suicide.

Modifié par Batteries, 30 mars 2011 - 11:48 .

[Dunizel]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I'm not sure if people are already aware about the bug, but here goes -

So I got in touch with Jennifer Hepler via message. She sent out a note to the debuggers about how everyone is unable to access the Rivalry Pro-Templar Anders decision in Act 3 (I personally want this for my final game. I like seeing Anders realize just how bad things are, and I don't feel justified keeping him alive in any other situation unless it is to actually clean up his mess) - So they should be releasing a patch with that issue.

Just as a heeaadz up.

Thanks!
I think I'll just stop my playthrough for now then 
I doubt I will side with the Templars, but since I am in a rivalmance, I would like to be able to see that scene with the correct dialogues too. At least I would like to have the correct dialogues for a rivalmance when siding with mages.

To be honest, I'll never ask him to fight the mages. If I wanted, for some strange reasons, to side with the templars, my Hawke would just  tell him to go away. Maybe later they can talk about it, but really, I could never ask him to fight the mages. He might be completely broken and follow Hwake whatever he says, but it is just not right to force him in that way. In my head at least...

But, the people in Kirkwall ARE stupid. And maybe, someone will even remember the apostate that ran the clinic and wouldn't believe it was him. I can perfectly imagine them simply bowing to the Champion and not questioning anything. If Hawke is Viscount, he will let Anders train mages or such...

It's nice to know they are working, I hope they fix even the LI cameos >.< Zevran, at the best, thinks my Warden is dead ç_ç But he is so sweet ç_ç

I'll just drop here a fanfic I read the other day, it was touching

Modifié par Dunizel, 30 mars 2011 - 11:59 .

[Jean]

If you side with the Templars and tell him to leave, he'll come back a little bit later and you have to kill him.

Whether or not that scenario will play out differently when this bug if fixed, I have no idea. But that is the way it's working now.

Modifié par Batteries, 30 mars 2011 - 11:59 .

[Dunizel]

Batteries wrote...

If you side with the Templars and tell him to leave, he'll come back a little bit later and you have to kill him.

Whether or not that scenario will play out differently when this bug if fixed, I have no idea. But that is the way it's working now.

Yeah, I was more talking about my "head scenario". My Hawke would never tell him to go away after the Chantry. But even keeping him by his side, he would never make him fight the mages...it could probably go something like "Wait for me somewhere safe, we will talk about this later"

[Ninche]

I think if there should be any kiss at the Gallows it should be after you have spared Anders AND protected him from Sebastian - when you have basically put your love for him above everything else, the ending with Anders killing mages should NOT get any kiss - it makes no sense whatsoever! Someone should write to Hepler and demand she swaps the kisses dammit!

[shiba5]

Ninche wrote...

I think if there should be any kiss at the Gallows it should be after you have spared Anders AND protected him from Sebastian - when you have basically put your love for him above everything else, the ending with Anders killing mages should NOT get any kiss - it makes no sense whatsoever! Someone should write to Hepler and demand she swaps the kisses dammit!

Yep!!

[SurelyForth]

Ninche wrote...

I think if there should be any kiss at the Gallows it should be after you have spared Anders AND protected him from Sebastian - when you have basically put your love for him above everything else, the ending with Anders killing mages should NOT get any kiss - it makes no sense whatsoever! Someone should write to Hepler and demand she swaps the kisses dammit!

I don't think there should be a kiss anywhere, and I get little nauseous when people heavily imply that they will do this end just to get a kiss, especially since it's about 2 seconds long and comes after he makes it obvious that he knows he's turning against his people and he fully expects to die and soon. It's just too much character assassination to go through for something that would be inappropriate under those circumstances to begin with.

Or maybe I'm weird because I don't long for my avatar to be showered with affection at any cost.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 30 mars 2011 - 12:15 .

[Jean]

Ninche wrote...

I think if there should be any kiss at the Gallows it should be after you have spared Anders AND protected him from Sebastian - when you have basically put your love for him above everything else, the ending with Anders killing mages should NOT get any kiss - it makes no sense whatsoever! Someone should write to Hepler and demand she swaps the kisses dammit!

I can actually understand the deal with the lack of kissing, or heck, any kind of psychical contact with Hawke at the end. I doubt Anders would want to breach any personal space boundries with Hawke at that point who sided with the mages and decided to run away with him. Complications abound.
With the Templar siding, the kiss looked hesitant... but also final. More so with his "I'll always love you" line.
It's how I interpret it.


But I agree with above a kiss being there at all is more than a little strange to me.

Modifié par Batteries, 30 mars 2011 - 12:18 .

[Kawamura]

Batteries wrote...

Ninche wrote...

I think if there should be any kiss at the Gallows it should be after you have spared Anders AND protected him from Sebastian - when you have basically put your love for him above everything else, the ending with Anders killing mages should NOT get any kiss - it makes no sense whatsoever! Someone should write to Hepler and demand she swaps the kisses dammit!

I can actually understand the deal with the lack of kissing, or heck, any kind of psychical contact with Hawke at the end. I doubt Anders would want to breach any personal space boundries with Hawke at that point who sided with the mages and decided to run away with him. Complications abound.
With the Templar siding, the kiss looked hesitant... but also final. More so with his "I'll always love you" line.
It's how I interpret it.


But I agree with above a kiss being there at all is more than a little strange to me.

Yeeeeah. Touching is never good when you've forced a revolution on someone. Or, even if they're with you 100%, have just murdered folks for The Cause.

In fact, I'd consider that bad touching.

Hell. Anything after "Justice" is probably bad touching.

Modifié par Kawamura, 30 mars 2011 - 12:24 .

[Aeowyn]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ninche wrote...

I think if there should be any kiss at the Gallows it should be after you have spared Anders AND protected him from Sebastian - when you have basically put your love for him above everything else, the ending with Anders killing mages should NOT get any kiss - it makes no sense whatsoever! Someone should write to Hepler and demand she swaps the kisses dammit!

I don't think there should be a kiss anywhere, and I get little nauseous when people heavily imply that they will do this end just to get a kiss, especially since it's about 2 seconds long and comes after he makes it obvious that he knows he's turning against his people and he fully expects to die and soon. It's just too much character assassination to go through for something that would be inappropriate under those circumstances to begin with.

Or maybe I'm weird because I don't long for my avatar to be showered with affection at any cost.

No I agree with this. And I'm on the side who don't think that Anders should stay if Hawke chooses to side with the Templars no matter what. It does not make any sense whatsoever. 7 years of making it better for mages and going against the Templars and then he just changes his mind and agrees to kill the mages? Eh. Ok....

[Ninche]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ninche wrote...

I think if there should be any kiss at the Gallows it should be after you have spared Anders AND protected him from Sebastian - when you have basically put your love for him above everything else, the ending with Anders killing mages should NOT get any kiss - it makes no sense whatsoever! Someone should write to Hepler and demand she swaps the kisses dammit!

I don't think there should be a kiss anywhere, and I get little nauseous when people heavily imply that they will do this end just to get a kiss, especially since it's about 2 seconds long and comes after he makes it obvious that he knows he's turning against his people and he fully expects to die and soon. It's just too much character assassination to go through for something that would be inappropriate under those circumstances to begin with.

Or maybe I'm weird because I don't long for my avatar to be showered with affection at any cost.

Fair enough! No kiss at all is much better than a kiss only when you make him slaughter mages. Is there any videos of it by the way? Also, I would like to hear Hepler's reasoning behind it, I just can't get my head around making Anders go against the cause he's been fighting for for a decade = kiss...

[Jean]

www.youtube.com/watch

That's all it is right there.^

[shiba5]

If there's going to be a kiss, an "I just saved your life" one makes more sense than the "let's go kill some mages" one. The last one is just repulsive and jarring to me.
The mage-siding romance doesn't need a kiss but at least it makes sense.

[Ninche]

Batteries wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

That's all it is right there.^

Oh... I am so cofused right now. Maybe I don't understand Anders at all. He seems so resigned and calm in this scene I don't even know what to make of it anymore. it's like he has lost all will over himself and will just follow you blindly. And also somehow killing the mages is supposed to make up for what he's done? And set things right? Hooow?

[sabreene]

Watching the templar-siding cutscene made me feel a little ill. It feels all wrong to me, everything from his words to his facial expressions.

If there had to be a rivalmance ending where you could convince him he was wrong to set the bomb, I would actually prefer it if he just killed himself right there instead of killing his fellow mages. Like Ketojan. And if there had to be a kiss, it would make more sense to me in that scenario. Kiss, Goodbye, Suicide.

But this? Being able to make him kill the ones he's been fighting to save for so many years? That's not justice or vengeance and actually compounds the killing of innocents instead of doing anything to make up for it.

I really don't like even knowing it exists.

Modifié par sabreene, 30 mars 2011 - 12:39 .

[shiba5]

Ninche wrote...

Batteries wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

That's all it is right there.^

Oh... I am so cofused right now. Maybe I don't understand Anders at all. He seems so resigned and calm in this scene I don't even know what to make of it anymore. it's like he has lost all will over himself and will just follow you blindly. And also somehow killing the mages is supposed to make up for what he's done? And set things right? Hooow?

It's either poorly executed or a giant troll. I just don't know how else to parse it.

sabreene wrote...

I really don't like even knowing it exists.

Ditto.

Modifié par shiba5, 30 mars 2011 - 12:40 .