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[SurelyForth]

ipgd wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

@Ryzaki I would be absolutely amazed if there is some way the writers could make Anders siding with the Templars remotely believable. We can moan about it all we want because we can't see the ending ourselves, but truly, there is NOTHING I can think of they can do that would make me believe Anders could possibly do that.

It's not that hard to believe, honestly, if you see just how mentally unstable he is on the rivalry path. At that point, it's pretty clear he's not in the state of mind to be making any sort rational decision. It's certainly not a very pleasant outcome for Anders, but I can see how he could get there. Depressing, but possible.

*cough*Ketojan*cough* I so wish I was talented enough to write a fic about Anders as a bas'saarebas. Can an Anders that's unable to speak even be considered an Anders anymore?

This thread needs more naked Anders.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 31 mars 2011 - 01:43 .

[Kawamura]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

I keep hoping more people will do Justice/Anders.

The thought of this makes me laugh way more than it should. It is kind of begging to be written though. What with how they have the most super intimate relationship ever.

Pretty much. Just what Anders needs: Justice taking over his sexuality as well.

That doesn't seem very fair.

[Ryzaki]

Miri1984 wrote...
In a word, yes. I can't see how they can manage it. If they do, I will be forced to admit I'm wrong. And I'm quite happy to do that, it happens often.

Eh. Ignore me. I'm in a bad mood. 

I need fooooood. 

Bah. 

Still I want to see the unbugged dialogue. The rivalrypath doesn't make much sense at the ending as is. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 31 mars 2011 - 01:41 .

[Lady Jess]

Sjofn wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Sjofn wrote...

I assumed the reason all the people who should know way better in the Fade still screw up is because we're in Feynriel's dream, and his being a ... whatever-the-fancy-word-for-it-was makes everything even more murky and hard to resist or whatever, because it feels more "real." I especially didn't fault Fenris for screwing up because he's presumably never even been tempted by a demon before, he doesn't belong in the Fade at all (as he will point out before you go there), and has no idea what being tempted even feels like.

When you talk to your companions about it, they try to explain that it's not just words that swayed them, there was something else that made everything the demon said ring true. It's hard to get because obviously we, the player, are not actually in the Fade and there's not gonna be a gameplay way to get that across, but I never thought "aw man, weaksauce" after that scene, just "man, demons are dicks."

Or it's because the writers didn't have time/couldn't be bothered to play out two scenarios for each character. Whether you had enough points on either side of the scale.

<shrug> I don't feel the need to call it laziness at every turn, personally.


Also am I the only one on the planet who has zero problem not making Alistair king? I had no idea he dumped your ass until I read it on the boards, because my first two playthroughs, I was like "Oh, you don't want to be king? OK then." And then my third playthrough was a city elf dude who was never ever going to let Anora rule by herself, as her "the last five years? All me!" was not the proof of awesome she probably thought it was to an ELF who has spent his whole life getting pooped on. So while I finally made him king, we were obviously not INVOLVED.

I mean, I know he winds up being a good king, and I always was like "you'd be better than you think" when he'd be all "fuss fuss I don't wanna," but I never felt like I had to make the guy king. Anora is not the nicest lady I've ever met, but my non-city-elf characters seriously see no reason not to let her keep on keepin' on. The "she isn't royalty" thing isn't compelling, not even to my dwarf noble.

Alistair only dumps you if you don't A: harden him (shut up pervs!) and B: convince him to keep the relationship by saying "noone can tell a king what to do (with enough points in persuasion, I'm not sure how many or even if it's needed, it's been a while). And before anybody says "Mistress" no. Not unless he's married to Anora. As far as the end of the game and awakening go he's NOT married unless you put him with Anora, and obviously in DA2 he's still single. You're no more a mistress than Anders is In Character siding with Templars.   This goes well with the chancellor boon by the way.

[Elsariel]

Is this the Youtube video everyone is talking about? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOIfAJXAXX8

Modifié par Elsariel, 31 mars 2011 - 01:42 .

[Lady Jess]

Ryzaki wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...
Even if he mentions it was Vengeance who planted the bomb, and I know that dialogue exists, that still doesn't explain how he could side with the Templars. The bomb isn't the issue. I can see him being broken about that being a terrible thing to have done. I can see him agreeing with Hawke that he is irrational, controlled and dangerous. But in no way can I see that transforming into "I will now help you kill mages". 

Alrighty then. 

The dialogue you've never seen can't possibly justify him siding with the templars. 

And this reminds me of why I don't try to get into this discussion, my bizzare self can't explain things well. 

It doesn't have to be "I will help you kill mages" as much as "I don't trust myself to make good decisions right now so I'll go along with whatever you say." 

Which in the context of said missing ending is what?...oh right. Killing his fellow mages.

[Ryzaki]

I will never understand the hatred of being a mistress. Love in marriage looks to be rare in Thedas. Why is being a mistress so horrible?

[Ryzaki]

Lady Jess wrote...

Which in the context of said missing ending is what?...oh right. Killing his fellow mages.

And Merrill can do the same thing? Fellow mages is said as though they should have a bond for just being mages. Hawke can be a mage. He/She can kill their "fellow mages" Bethany can do the same thing. Their bonds with Hawke just happen to be stronger. 

Have you ever had everything in your life fall to pieces around you? (I'm not trying to be nasty or uppity just asking) Did you have someone there telling you anything? Were you manipulated into doing something you wouldn't ordinarily do? 

People do strange things when they feel all hope is lost. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 31 mars 2011 - 01:48 .

[Miri1984]

Lady Jess wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...
Even if he mentions it was Vengeance who planted the bomb, and I know that dialogue exists, that still doesn't explain how he could side with the Templars. The bomb isn't the issue. I can see him being broken about that being a terrible thing to have done. I can see him agreeing with Hawke that he is irrational, controlled and dangerous. But in no way can I see that transforming into "I will now help you kill mages". 

Alrighty then. 

The dialogue you've never seen can't possibly justify him siding with the templars. 

And this reminds me of why I don't try to get into this discussion, my bizzare self can't explain things well. 

It doesn't have to be "I will help you kill mages" as much as "I don't trust myself to make good decisions right now so I'll go along with whatever you say." 

Which in the context of said missing ending is what?...oh right. Killing his fellow mages.

I can see him agreeing with Hawke but then refusing to do anything in battle and committing suicide by inaction. That's as far as I'm willing to go.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ryzaki wrote...

I will never understand the hatred of being a mistress. Love in marriage looks to be rare in Thedas. Why is being a mistress so horrible?

Agreed.  Though my Amell chose to just run off with Alistair as Wardens instead.

Dunizel wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Also, why is it that the decent guys (Nate, Seb) always turn into creepy stalker rapists on the kink meme?  *is confuzzled*

Because the more they look repressed, the more they inspire.

Although Nate didn't give me that impression, but oh well xD

Haha.  Fair enough.  Something tells me Seb wouldn't have been nearly pissed off as he was in Act 3 if someone had just bought him a few nights at the Blooming Rose 

[Miri1984]

Ryzaki wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

Which in the context of said missing ending is what?...oh right. Killing his fellow mages.

And Merrill can do the same thing? 

Have you ever had everything in your life fall to pieces around you? 

Merrill hasn't spent the entire game trying to free the people you're now asking her to kill.

[DeaHamlet]

So if it turns out Anders is so broken that he defers to Hawke to an unhealthy extent... okay, remember I said IF...

How is getting Anders away from Justice's influence only to blindly follow Hawke... anywhere near a good thing?

Poor Anders.

[SurelyForth]

Ryzaki wrote...

I will never understand the hatred of being a mistress. Love in marriage looks to be rare in Thedas. Why is being a mistress so horrible?

Because some people don't like the idea of the person they love being with another person, even if it's just for procreation? Mistress Cousland is my canon ending, but I can totally see why people don't choose it.

[mellifera]

DeaHamlet wrote...

So if it turns out Anders is so broken that he defers to Hawke to an unhealthy extent... okay, remember I said IF...

How is getting Anders away from Justice's influence only to blindly follow Hawke... anywhere near a good thing?

Poor Anders.

Yeah, ultimately this is what bugs me the most.

[Sjofn]

Ryzaki wrote...

It doesn't have to be "I will help you kill mages" as much as "I don't trust myself to make good decisions right now so I'll go along with whatever you say." 

With a potential side of "And doing this is completely and utterly something Vengeance would never let me do, so it will prove to myself that I can still control him sometimes."

[Lady Jess]

Ryzaki wrote...

I will never understand the hatred of being a mistress. Love in marriage looks to be rare in Thedas. Why is being a mistress so horrible?

I wouldn't say rare. Bryce loved Eleanor, Eamon loved Isolde, The City Elf dad loved the mom, even if she had died, and it was an arranged marriage. Maric loved Rowan. aand it's hated because it's by default granted the connotation of TODAY which is negative. you hear Mistress and think "you bastard!" it happens *shrugs*

Anyhow HANDERS!...

[Kawamura]

DeaHamlet wrote...

So if it turns out Anders is so broken that he defers to Hawke to an unhealthy extent... okay, remember I said IF...

How is getting Anders away from Justice's influence only to blindly follow Hawke... anywhere near a good thing?

Poor Anders.

Because my Hawke's awesome?

*sparkle pose*

Or possibly Hawke asks him to do less bad things. Not ... here exactly. But elsewhere.

[ipgd]

Lady Jess wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...
Even if he mentions it was Vengeance who planted the bomb, and I know that dialogue exists, that still doesn't explain how he could side with the Templars. The bomb isn't the issue. I can see him being broken about that being a terrible thing to have done. I can see him agreeing with Hawke that he is irrational, controlled and dangerous. But in no way can I see that transforming into "I will now help you kill mages". 

Alrighty then. 

The dialogue you've never seen can't possibly justify him siding with the templars. 

And this reminds me of why I don't try to get into this discussion, my bizzare self can't explain things well. 

It doesn't have to be "I will help you kill mages" as much as "I don't trust myself to make good decisions right now so I'll go along with whatever you say." 

Which in the context of said missing ending is what?...oh right. Killing his fellow mages.

In the context of what is probably a mental breakdown, the severity of what he's doing probably isn't clear to him. Having him stay with Hawke after the fact and not go totally mad/kill himself gets a little harder to believe, yeah, but making the decision in the moment to go along with whatever Hawke says when he's at his most unstable? I can see that.

[Lady Jess]

Miri1984 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

Which in the context of said missing ending is what?...oh right. Killing his fellow mages.

And Merrill can do the same thing? 

Have you ever had everything in your life fall to pieces around you? 

Merrill hasn't spent the entire game trying to free the people you're now asking her to kill.

Yes. Merill spent the whole game trying to get back some Dalish history, though maybe via the wrong way. But we didn't then make her go and kill the clan.

[Ryzaki]

Lady Jess wrote...
I wouldn't say rare. Bryce loved Eleanor, Eamon loved Isolde, The City Elf dad loved the mom, even if she had died, and it was an arranged marriage. Maric loved Rowan. aand it's hated because it's by default granted the connotation of TODAY which is negative. you hear Mistress and think "you bastard!" it happens *shrugs*

Anyhow HANDERS!...

CE dad loved the mom yes but it was still arranged at first. They were lucky. (Heck if you ask around it's pretty much said they were lucky as were you). 

Hm. I'm strangeI suppose. I think of marriage for economic benefits first then love second. 

Miri1984 wrote...

Merrill hasn't spent the entire game trying to free the people you're now asking her to kill.

No she hasn't. 

Ah well. *shrugs* I just don't see it as so character breaking. I never will. 

SurelyForth wrote...
Because some people don't like the idea of the person they love being with another person, even if it's just for procreation? Mistress Cousland is my canon ending, but I can totally see why people don't choose it.

Heh. I should've figured. I have no issues with an open marriage so I should've seen it stemming from that. 

Sjofn wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It doesn't have to be "I will help you kill mages" as much as "I don't trust myself to make good decisions right now so I'll go along with whatever you say." 

With a potential side of "And doing this is completely and utterly something Vengeance would never let me do, so it will prove to myself that I can still control him sometimes."

A very good point. What better way to prove to himself Vengeance can't control him than by destroying years of work. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 31 mars 2011 - 01:55 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Kawamura wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

I keep hoping more people will do Justice/Anders.

The thought of this makes me laugh way more than it should. It is kind of begging to be written though. What with how they have the most super intimate relationship ever.

Pretty much. Just what Anders needs: Justice taking over his sexuality as well.

That doesn't seem very fair.

I would like to imagine it as Anders takes over Justice's sexuality... or lack there of. First Anders teaches Justice to hate and now he teaches him to love!

... Okay, I'm going to stop thinking about this or joking about this before it breaks some part of my brain,

[Sjofn]

Lady Jess wrote...

Alistair only dumps you if you don't A: harden him (shut up pervs!) and B: convince him to keep the relationship by saying "noone can tell a king what to do (with enough points in persuasion, I'm not sure how many or even if it's needed, it's been a while). And before anybody says "Mistress" no. Not unless he's married to Anora. As far as the end of the game and awakening go he's NOT married unless you put him with Anora, and obviously in DA2 he's still single. You're no more a mistress than Anders is In Character siding with Templars. This goes well with the chancellor boon by the way.

Oh, I know the different ways to keep with him, I've done all those variations (I almost always harden him, even though I hate the one dialogue option for doing so). Although being a mistress didn't sit well with me, just from a pride standpoint for that character, so she left Alistair's butt at the gates and fed herself to the archdemon instead.

[Russalka]

I am still lobbying for this to be official anthem of the Anders romance.

Ignore the stereotypical video, but it was the best quality and it shows the lyrics. This is from Prince of Persia: Two Thrones.

All of the lyrics fit Anders.

Modifié par Russalka, 31 mars 2011 - 01:55 .

[Sylph_14]

Dunno if this has been linked before, it's impossible for me to keep up with this thread XD But I remember Anders' line when Hawke falls in combat being mentioned like, 150 pages ago or so, and a friend of mine linked me the youtube video with it.

First time I got it in-game, he sounded so freaked out that I actually felt guilty ;[

[Sable Rhapsody]

Lady Jess wrote...

I wouldn't say rare. Bryce loved Eleanor, Eamon loved Isolde, The City Elf dad loved the mom, even if she had died, and it was an arranged marriage. Maric loved Rowan. aand it's hated because it's by default granted the connotation of TODAY which is negative. you hear Mistress and think "you bastard!" it happens *shrugs*

It's not exactly rare, but it's usually not the first consideration in political marriage among the rich/important.  Remember that Leandra was supposed to marry the Comte du Launcet.  And then she ran off and fell in love with Malcolm.

Anyway, back to Anders.  Again, I'm reserving judgment on the rivalry thing until I see it.  And everyone's entitled to their own friendship/rivalry preferences.  But for me as a player, one of the most painful things to see is Anders' mental unraveling.  Seeing it get to the point on the rivalry ending where he can no longer even hold to his ideals would break my heart.