57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Ah I save Anders because metagaming I need a healing ho. I'm gonna start letting Beth be a warden so I can kill him without feeling like I'm gimping myself.

As for why non-metagamey. My Hawkes love Anders (most of them) and the others are friends with him and don't want to kill their friend.

[Ryzaki]

Ashwraith wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Wait... she actually DISSES an Elf Warden?  I know she disses a mage Warden.  (Moira is a Surana, after all.)

Yes, she does. My Warden was Dalish. It pissed me off something fierce, believe you me.

Oh I heard that with my City Elf and was not pleased. 

"Even an elf?" 
FU 

It's just the way she says it that made me wanna strangle her. 

[LastFadingSmile]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...


Anders was more complex than "I CRAZY! I BLOW UP CHANTRIES! I WANT MAGES FREE! WEEEE!"
I played the whole game with one eyebrow raised...utterly confused over his character. He wants mages free, yet he takes a spirit into his body and tries to justify it when the spirit becomes Vengeance? He blows up a Chantry to make a point, then practically begs you to kill him?

Anders is a pretty tragic, tortured character. And those who played Awakening REALLY feel that, because they all remember who Anders used to be and how funny and downright ridiculous he was. There are times in DA2 where that shines through, but most of the time he just runs around being uber-paranoid and uber- mage rights.

When I found out Anders was in DA2, I was stoked. But when I actually played the game, I just ended up feeling terrible throughout the whole thing.

Totally. I completed another Awakening playthrugh just days before DA2 came out 'cause I was in all crazy DA mode, and I was psched to see Anders again, even though I knew going in from what I'd read that he was going to be a different character. 

He absollutely captivated me. His downward spiral is the saddest thing to behold. I went into my first game knowing that Hawke was going to romance him and I was a freaking emotional wreck by the time I got done. I think that on my first playthrough I didn't think much about the whys or hows of his actions, I was just so sad for him, for hawke -- for me! -- that I just said "oh of course I'll let you live, oh of course I'll run away with you :crying:"


I guess there are a lot of people who don't care or can't appreciate WHY he's such a different person in DA2, and they're disappointed from the get-go and they let that colour their opinion of him as much as his actions speak for themselves.




Also anyone want a FOR FREE cat, mine is being a total jerk. He's not an orange tabby and he's occasionally constipated, but otherwise...a jackass. Anyone? No... fine. <_<

[Purposeof-Flight]

leggywillow wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

So, now I'm wondering... are people missing that the Grand Cleric and Co. are in charge of the Templars? That would explain some of the terrorist talk.

THIS.  This drives me absolutely insane.  Meredith and the templars answer directly to Elthina!  Why does no one remember this?  Yes, Meredith has established herself as the de facto power, but Elthina is still her boss.  If you try to point this out to Elthina, she just brushes Hawke off with a "You think I have more power than I do".  At this point that may be true, but who's fault is it if Elthina made her own office so weak that her Knight-Commander now has more power?

The more I play the game, the more irritated I get at Elthina.  She does NOTHING and she stands up for NOTHING.  Another example is during the "Offered and Lost" quest.  The first few times I played the game, I secretly cheered and thought Elthina was awesome when she just let Petrice get murdered by the Qunari right there in the Chantry.  But in later playthroughs, I started thinking "WTF?!"

Yes, Petrice deserved to die and I hated that conniving woman.  But really, Elthina?  You just said her fate would be decided in court, according to Chantry law or whatever.  And then you watched (and possibly saw the Qunari in the shadows beforehand and knew what was about to happen) as Petrice instead took an arrow to the brain.  And did NOTHING.  And she seemed to know that Petrice was up to something shady before that and did NOTHING.

It seems to me that there are two possibilities for Elthina.  One is that she has her own strong opinions and agendas and allows them to be served by willfully ignoring the duties demanded by her position.  The other is that she is truly an ineffectual ruler who would rather stick her head in the sand than fulfill her responsibilities.  So many problems could have been avoided if she had just done her job.

I rather liked the scene where Sebastian shoots an arrow through the paper in her hand.
And the party banter where Anders is like, "How can you keep sticking up for that doddering old biddy of a grand cleric?"
I rather liked her....until I actually talked to her. How come all religious figureheads in Thedas are complete a-holes?

[leggywillow]

When does Elthina comment on the Warden?  I've tried to get that dialogue and haven't been able to yet.

(And it looks like I'm going to be replaying a massive section of Act 2 later because I got that STUPID AWFUL Isabela speed glitch.  DAMN IT ALL.)

[ipgd]

silver-crescent wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

I had a huge argument with a friend who insisted just such a thing - that she was a nice lady who just wanted to keep the peace between the two sides. Yeah right. I feel like he missed huge chunks of dialog or wasn't paying attention.

And that's exactly the problem with a lot of people. What Anders did is very easy to dismiss as "crazy guy randomly bombs chantry, kills nuns for the lulz" if you haven't been paying attention to the story/lore details.

This is the worst part about liking things with a modicum of depth. Being tortured by people who haven't been nerdagonizing over it for months like you have

leggywillow wrote...

THIS.  This drives me absolutely
insane.  Meredith and the templars answer directly to Elthina!  Why does
no one remember this?  Yes, Meredith has established herself as the de
facto power, but Elthina is still her boss.  If you try to point this
out to Elthina, she just brushes Hawke off with a "You think I have more
power than I do".  At this point that may be true, but who's fault is
it if Elthina made her own office so weak that her Knight-Commander now
has more power?

Still, even if she's in charge of
Meredith, she's also a symbol and a religious leader to the public and Anders knows this. Her death
was meant to affect the public just as much as it was meant to be a
blow against the templars. Terrorism is certainly a huge part of what he
did, even if it isn't the only thing the bombing accomplished.

Modifié par ipgd, 01 avril 2011 - 06:50 .

[Ashwraith]

Sialater wrote...

Suddenly, I feel lot better about letting Anders live... no one disses my elfmage.

Well, at least now I know why Merrill says she saw Mahariel wandering around Kirkwall: she heard someone was talking smack about her, and decided some face-rearranging was in order.
Sadly, she took a wrong turn at the Hanged Man, and by the time she'd found her way to the Chantry it had already been nuked.

Asenath: Anders! : D

Anders: Commander! : D

Asenath: ....Anders. >:C

Anders: ...Commander? :c

Asenath: STEAL MY THUNDER WILL YOU

Modifié par Ashwraith, 01 avril 2011 - 06:55 .

[Aynslie]

yukidama wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Siduri wrote...

I love these "how old is character X" arguments because it's pretty obvious that we all imagine our LIs as being around our own ages. The teens and twentysomethings believe in young Anders, the over-thirty crowd believes in an older Anders. The same exact thing happened with Alistair.

Not me, I imagine both Hawke and Anders to be older than me, and my Warden and Alistair to be younger xD

Okay, well, maybe my Hawke is about same age as me in my head, but that's purely coincidental. I'd place him at that age whether I were 14 or 40.

14 year old manly man with stubble? Who saves everyone from the Qunari before he's old enough to drink?
Talk about being a legend. LMFAO

LOL I meant I'd still place my Hawke at 23-24 even if I were 14 or 40. Right now I'm 23, which is why it matches up. But even if I weren't, yeah.

I am 28 and I place Hawke at about 23-24 at the beginning.  And Anders just a few years older.  Making Hawke and Anders older than myself by endgame.  Thats why I like Act II j/k:whistle:

[Ryzaki]

leggywillow wrote...

When does Elthina comment on the Warden?  I've tried to get that dialogue and haven't been able to yet.

(And it looks like I'm going to be replaying a massive section of Act 2 later because I got that STUPID AWFUL Isabela speed glitch.  DAMN IT ALL.)

You're not playing on PC right? Because you could fix that and there's a mod to avoid it. 

Yeah she says the Maker stepped in during the blight and even an "elf" maybe doing his work. Maybe I was just being senstive but the way she said it irked me. 

On Hawke's age. I always make my Hawke's about 20 - 21. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 avril 2011 - 06:50 .

[Purposeof-Flight]

Kolotosa wrote...
Also anyone want a FOR FREE cat, mine is being a total jerk. He's not an orange tabby and he's occasionally constipated, but otherwise...a jackass. Anyone? No... fine. <_<

I'll trade.
I have a 10 week old kitten named Anders who keeps tearing open my screen to escape and chase the birds outside....you know, before he realizes how cold it is and starts mewling.
Usually we catch him before that revelation, though. LMFAO

(What's sad? I'm not even kidding.)

[shiba5]

leggywillow wrote...

When does Elthina comment on the Warden?  I've tried to get that dialogue and haven't been able to yet.

(And it looks like I'm going to be replaying a massive section of Act 2 later because I got that STUPID AWFUL Isabela speed glitch.  DAMN IT ALL.)

I believe it's in the first act.

[Siduri]

ipgd wrote...

Elthina IS in charge of the templars, but Anders struck against her for her status as a symbol as much as he did for her connection to the templars. Anders ensured that by destroying a sacred religious leader and place of worship, he would galvanize the public as well as the templars against the mages, giving the mages no option for peaceful submission

This is actually what makes me want to grab him by the feathers and shake him hard. If he turns the entire population against the mages, then it doesn't matter if the Circle stands or falls--mages will be hunted everywhere by pitchfork-wielding mobs. That's no kind of freedom.

Anders did more for the cause of mage liberation by running his clinic than by fighting templars. Just showing people how much a free mage can help them and their communities--that the chantry shouldn't have a lock on magical power because magic saves lives. He totally had dozens of normal people ready to fight to protect him. That was the work he should have built on.

A smart magical resistance movement would focus on "winning hearts and minds." The mages would travel around, passing out Anders' manifestos and offering free healing services to the towns they passed through. Soon ordinary people would be downright eager to shelter apostates--they would be clamoring to have a rogue mage come through their town. The templars couldn't hunt mages effectively if the entire population was aiding the underground.

Instead, in one stroke Anders/Vengeance sacrificed the years of goodwill he'd built up among the people of Kirkwall. I understand his reasoning, and maybe in the long run it could even turn out to be the right choice--if, now that he's succeeded in getting the mages to rise up, they all start doing some serious outreach work among the wider population--and quickly, too. A resistance movement cannot prevail without a lot of support from the people.

[Trophonius]

With regards to Chantry innocents: when you say that the Blight was obviated by the will of the Maker and not even give credit where it's due (Grey Warden/Hero of Ferelden), that's when you stop being innocent. You're allowing yourself to fall victim to sheer ignorance and blind faith instead of accepting reality as it is and doing something about it.

All I saw was Anders giving them a macabre, but much needed wake up call.

[nodice]

Siduri wrote...

I love these "how old is character X" arguments because it's pretty obvious that we all imagine our LIs as being around our own ages. The teens and twentysomethings believe in young Anders, the over-thirty crowd believes in an older Anders. The same exact thing happened with Alistair.

Hmm well I think Alistair is, in some playthroughs, younger than Warden (Alistair maybe 21, Warden 23-24). He's young. Zev on the other hand is about 40 I think. Leliana says something like "I'm older than I look" at some point so she's at her 30s? 

I agree with you however, I think I see Warden younger than Hawke partly because when I played DAO I was younger I see Hawke a being about 30 in Act 3. Anders must be...well he escaped the circle 7 times so he was there quite a while....was a warden for some time, then 6 years with Hawke....I don't know, 35? In Act 3 I mean.

Well, I suppose that doesn't mean Warden and Hawke differ so much in ages, but Warden sort of "remains" young, when Hawke grows up. My logic 

Modifié par nodice, 01 avril 2011 - 07:00 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

yukidama wrote...

Siduri wrote...

I love these "how old is character X" arguments because it's pretty obvious that we all imagine our LIs as being around our own ages. The teens and twentysomethings believe in young Anders, the over-thirty crowd believes in an older Anders. The same exact thing happened with Alistair.

Not me, I imagine both Hawke and Anders to be older than me, and my Warden and Alistair to be younger xD

Okay, well, maybe my Hawke is about same age as me in my head, but that's purely coincidental. I'd place him at that age whether I were 14 or 40.

Me either. Everybody is older than me in Pseudo-canon. I don't like the idea that Alistair could be the right age to be my classmate in an AU. Its weird. >_> He's 26+ in my head canon and my Hawkes and Wardens are generally in their late 20s, early 30s.

Whatever I'm weird derp.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 01 avril 2011 - 06:53 .

[leggywillow]

ipgd wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

THIS.  This drives me absolutely insane.  Meredith and the templars answer directly to Elthina!  Why does no one remember this?  Yes, Meredith has established herself as the de facto power, but Elthina is still her boss.  If you try to point this out to Elthina, she just brushes Hawke off with a "You think I have more power than I do".  At this point that may be true, but who's fault is it if Elthina made her own office so weak that her Knight-Commander now has more power?

Still, even if she's in charge of Meredith, she's also a symbol and a religious leader to the public and Anders knows this. Her death was meant to affect the public just as much as it was meant to be a blow against the templars. Terrorism is certainly a huge part of what he did, even if it isn't the only thing the bombing accomplished.

Oh, definitely.  I don't think that's why Anders chose the Chantry and Elthina as a target at all... or at least, it was a much smaller factor in his decision.  He chose it for the symbolism.  And I still don't agree with the Chantry explosion and I'm not making excuses for Anders doing it.

But Elthina sucks, that's my point.  XD

[shiba5]

Anders is pushing 40. Sorry.

(And he needs a spa treatment desperately.)

[Rinji the Bearded]

Pseudocognition wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Siduri wrote...

I love these "how old is character X" arguments because it's pretty obvious that we all imagine our LIs as being around our own ages. The teens and twentysomethings believe in young Anders, the over-thirty crowd believes in an older Anders. The same exact thing happened with Alistair.

Not me, I imagine both Hawke and Anders to be older than me, and my Warden and Alistair to be younger xD

Okay, well, maybe my Hawke is about same age as me in my head, but that's purely coincidental. I'd place him at that age whether I were 14 or 40.

Me either. Everybody is older than me in Pseudo-canon. I don't like the idea that Alistair could be the right age to be my classmate in an AU. Its weird. >_> He's 26+ in my head canon and my Hawkes and Wardens are generally in their late 20s, early 30s.

Whatever I'm weird derp.

It's all about being as old as you feel!

I put a five year old on the throne of Ferelden, wheee~

[LastFadingSmile]

Trophonius wrote...

With regards to Chantry innocents: when you say that the Blight was obviated by the will of the Maker and not even give credit where it's due (Grey Warden/Hero of Ferelden), that's when you stop being innocent. You're allowing yourself to fall victim to sheer ignorance and blind faith instead of accepting reality as it is and doing something about it.

All I saw was Anders giving them a macabre, but much needed wake up call.

Yeah and who knows, maybe the Maker is just a gigantic jerk. Everyone assumes that He defaults to the side of the Chantry but who knows, maybe the Maker put Anders and Justice together, sent them to Kirkwall, gave them ingredients for Jenga and then was all "ROFLCOPTERS" when the world went to Hell in a handbasket.

The Maker is a giant troll.

[shiba5]

Kolotosa wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

With regards to Chantry innocents: when you say that the Blight was obviated by the will of the Maker and not even give credit where it's due (Grey Warden/Hero of Ferelden), that's when you stop being innocent. You're allowing yourself to fall victim to sheer ignorance and blind faith instead of accepting reality as it is and doing something about it.

All I saw was Anders giving them a macabre, but much needed wake up call.

Yeah and who knows, maybe the Maker is just a gigantic jerk. Everyone assumes that He defaults to the side of the Chantry but who knows, maybe the Maker put Anders and Justice together, sent them to Kirkwall, gave them ingredients for Jenga and then was all "ROFLCOPTERS" when the world went to Hell in a handbasket.

The Maker is a giant troll.

I wonder who had to chug when the Jenga fell?

[leggywillow]

Ryzaki wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

When does Elthina comment on the Warden?  I've tried to get that dialogue and haven't been able to yet.

(And it looks like I'm going to be replaying a massive section of Act 2 later because I got that STUPID AWFUL Isabela speed glitch.  DAMN IT ALL.)

You're not playing on PC right? Because you could fix that and there's a mod to avoid it.

Nope, I'm on the 360.  And it's bad.  Holy crap, it's bad.  My mage is utterly useless right now because it takes her five minutes to cast anything.    And this is the file where I'm trying to get my last achievement, so I can't give it up.  I've come too far!  If I can't fix it, I may just put it on Casual, play as Anders all the time, and let my Derp Mage cast her herp-a-derp spells in a corner while the rest of the party ignores her.

[Ashwraith]

Kolotosa wrote...

Yeah and who knows, maybe the Maker is just a gigantic jerk. Everyone assumes that He defaults to the side of the Chantry but who knows, maybe the Maker put Anders and Justice together, sent them to Kirkwall, gave them ingredients for Jenga and then was all "ROFLCOPTERS" when the world went to Hell in a handbasket.

The Maker is a giant troll.

U MAD, THEDAS?

[Purposeof-Flight]

Kolotosa wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

With regards to Chantry innocents: when you say that the Blight was obviated by the will of the Maker and not even give credit where it's due (Grey Warden/Hero of Ferelden), that's when you stop being innocent. You're allowing yourself to fall victim to sheer ignorance and blind faith instead of accepting reality as it is and doing something about it.

All I saw was Anders giving them a macabre, but much needed wake up call.

Yeah and who knows, maybe the Maker is just a gigantic jerk. Everyone assumes that He defaults to the side of the Chantry but who knows, maybe the Maker put Anders and Justice together, sent them to Kirkwall, gave them ingredients for Jenga and then was all "ROFLCOPTERS" when the world went to Hell in a handbasket.

The Maker is a giant troll.

Sebastian will be so disappointed.

Sebastian: Maker, I thought you loved us all! I thought we all had a purpose!
Maker: LOL U MAD

[silver-crescent]

ipgd wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

I had a huge argument with a friend who insisted just such a thing - that she was a nice lady who just wanted to keep the peace between the two sides. Yeah right. I feel like he missed huge chunks of dialog or wasn't paying attention.

And that's exactly the problem with a lot of people. What Anders did is very easy to dismiss as "crazy guy randomly bombs chantry, kills nuns for the lulz" if you haven't been paying attention to the story/lore details.

This is the worst part about liking things with a modicum of depth. Being tortured by people who haven't been nerdagonizing over it for months like you have

 so true

[LastFadingSmile]

shiba5 wrote...

I wonder who had to chug when the Jenga fell?

Andraste, definitely. Meanwhile Maker's all "I can't believe those noobs are chaste. this is AWESOME"