57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

leggywillow wrote...
Nope, I'm on the 360.  And it's bad.  Holy crap, it's bad.  My mage is utterly useless right now because it takes her five minutes to cast anything.    And this is the file where I'm trying to get my last achievement, so I can't give it up.  I've come too far!  If I can't fix it, I may just put it on Casual, play as Anders all the time, and let my Derp Mage cast her herp-a-derp spells in a corner while the rest of the party ignores her.

Ouch. 

See I avoid being friends with Izzy like the plague because of fear that it'll overcome the mod.  

LMAO Derp mage. 

But man I'm happy I dodged that bug. It looks horrible.  How on earth was that missed during QA? 

[shiba5]

silver-crescent wrote...

ipgd wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

I had a huge argument with a friend who insisted just such a thing - that she was a nice lady who just wanted to keep the peace between the two sides. Yeah right. I feel like he missed huge chunks of dialog or wasn't paying attention.

And that's exactly the problem with a lot of people. What Anders did is very easy to dismiss as "crazy guy randomly bombs chantry, kills nuns for the lulz" if you haven't been paying attention to the story/lore details.

This is the worst part about liking things with a modicum of depth. Being tortured by people who haven't been nerdagonizing over it for months like you have

 so true

It's sad. I wanted to strangle my friend because he wasn't nerd enough.

[mellifera]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Kolotosa wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

With regards to Chantry innocents: when you say that the Blight was obviated by the will of the Maker and not even give credit where it's due (Grey Warden/Hero of Ferelden), that's when you stop being innocent. You're allowing yourself to fall victim to sheer ignorance and blind faith instead of accepting reality as it is and doing something about it.

All I saw was Anders giving them a macabre, but much needed wake up call.

Yeah and who knows, maybe the Maker is just a gigantic jerk. Everyone assumes that He defaults to the side of the Chantry but who knows, maybe the Maker put Anders and Justice together, sent them to Kirkwall, gave them ingredients for Jenga and then was all "ROFLCOPTERS" when the world went to Hell in a handbasket.

The Maker is a giant troll.

Sebastian will be so disappointed.

Sebastian: Maker, I thought you loved us all! I thought we all had a purpose!
Maker: LOL U MAD

Some people's purpose is to get exploded, Sebastian. IT HAPPENED FOR A REASON. TO TEST YOUR FAITH BLAH BLAH.

[silver-crescent]

That maker aspect is interesting. If you befirend (but not romance) Anders at the final dialogue he actually says something among the lines of "maybe now that we have the maker on our side we will achieve something".

I think Elthina was secretly the devil

[CatOfEvilGenius]

Trophonius wrote...

With regards to Chantry innocents: when you say that the Blight was obviated by the will of the Maker and not even give credit where it's due (Grey Warden/Hero of Ferelden), that's when you stop being innocent. You're allowing yourself to fall victim to sheer ignorance and blind faith instead of accepting reality as it is and doing something about it.

All I saw was Anders giving them a macabre, but much needed wake up call.

I see a lot of ignorance and blind faith in the real world.  It irks me quite a bit.  In some cases, it leads to actual oppression of women, of homosexuals, and so on.  So, by your reasoning, I suppose I should start blowing up churches now?  (I have no intention of blowing up anything, for the record.)

Siduris wrote...

Anders did more for the cause of mage liberation by running his clinic
than by fighting templars. Just showing people how much a free mage can help them and their communities--that the chantry shouldn't have a lock on magical power because magic saves lives. He totally had dozens of normal people ready to fight to protect him. That was the work he should have built on.

This!  There were townspeople ready to defend Anders when you start looking for him in Act 1.  Would those same people still want to defend him after he blew up the Chantry where many of them probably went to pray?

[ipgd]

Siduri wrote...

This is actually what makes me want to grab him by the feathers and shake him hard. If he turns the entire population against the mages, then it doesn't matter if the Circle stands or falls--mages will be hunted everywhere by pitchfork-wielding mobs. That's no kind of freedom.

That's the point.

Everyone will hate them -- the templars, templar supporters and civilians who were previously moderate. Even mage sympathizers will have a very hard time justifying their freedom, especially if publically expressing these sentiments becomes tantamount to taboo (i.e. mages are dirty commies).

On the opposite end, this will force conservative mages to rethink their position on the Circle. They will not be able to take the path of least resistance as they had before. And that's part of the reason why the Circle hasn't been overthrown already; mages allow it to exist. The mages who want to overthrow the Circle belong to fringe groups and are considered extremists. Mages who do want to be free often don't fight for it because there is a very good chance they will be killed if they do, and staying locked up alive is good enough for most of them.

Anders's actions have ensured that they will not be able to do that anymore. There will be no middle ground; if you are a mage, you will either fight to be free or be killed. That's a very compelling reason to join the rebellion.

A peaceful revolution could very well fail entirely due to lack of participation from mages. With the political climate in Thedas, I highly doubt any sort of peaceful revolution would be successful. For peaceful revolutions to work, the public's opinions would have to be far more liberal than they are during the events of DA2. There is way too much overt hostility towards mages for most mages to feel like it would be worth it to try; it would take many decades of relaxation, probably longer than Anders has left, and forcing the hostility into overdrive is a far more expedient method than waiting it out. It's certainly more risky, and if it goes wrong, it will go very wrong, but it could work.

[Purposeof-Flight]

silver-crescent wrote...

That maker aspect is interesting. If you befirend (but not romance) Anders at the final dialogue he actually says something among the lines of "maybe now that we have the maker on our side we will achieve something".

I think Elthina was secretly the devil

Secretly?

[shiba5]

Kolotosa wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

I wonder who had to chug when the Jenga fell?

Andraste, definitely. Meanwhile Maker's all "I can't believe those noobs are chaste. this is AWESOME"

Now I can picture them all sitting around the Jenga as Andraste pulls out the piece that just says "Anders" on it.

Maker: OHHHhhhhhh YEAH!

*CRASH*


Sebastian:  Elthina, NOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Modifié par shiba5, 01 avril 2011 - 07:06 .

[Purposeof-Flight]

shiba5 wrote...

Kolotosa wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

I wonder who had to chug when the Jenga fell?

Andraste, definitely. Meanwhile Maker's all "I can't believe those noobs are chaste. this is AWESOME"

Now I can picture them all sitting around the Jenga as Andaste pulls out the piece that just says "Anders" on it.

Maker: OHHHhhhhhh YEAH ****es!

*CRASH*


Sebastian:  Elthina, NOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

He had some mad love for Elthina. MAD LOVE.
I mean, seriously...while I'm trying to decide which side I should be on, he's behind me going, "HEY! WE SHOULD BE KILLING ANDERS! KILL ANDERS! **** THE MAGES LET'S KILL ANDERS! WHY ISN'T ANDERS' HEAD ON THE GROUND? I SEE NO BLOOD ON HIS ROBES! HELLLOOOOO?! ANDERS STABBITY STAB KILL STAB!"

Meanwhile, Hawke is like, "Shut the **** up, Sebastian, PLEASE."

[silver-crescent]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

That maker aspect is interesting. If you befirend (but not romance) Anders at the final dialogue he actually says something among the lines of "maybe now that we have the maker on our side we will achieve something".

I think Elthina was secretly the devil

Secretly?

Actually she does look somewhat devilish.

Also this saying comes to mind: "idle hands are the devil's playthings"

[Sialater]

CatOfEvilGenius wrote...

Trophonius wrote...

With regards to Chantry innocents: when you say that the Blight was obviated by the will of the Maker and not even give credit where it's due (Grey Warden/Hero of Ferelden), that's when you stop being innocent. You're allowing yourself to fall victim to sheer ignorance and blind faith instead of accepting reality as it is and doing something about it.

All I saw was Anders giving them a macabre, but much needed wake up call.

I see a lot of ignorance and blind faith in the real world.  It irks me quite a bit.  In some cases, it leads to actual oppression of women, of homosexuals, and so on.  So, by your reasoning, I suppose I should start blowing up churches now?  (I have no intention of blowing up anything, for the record.)

Siduris wrote...

Anders did more for the cause of mage liberation by running his clinic
than by fighting templars. Just showing people how much a free mage can help them and their communities--that the chantry shouldn't have a lock on magical power because magic saves lives. He totally had dozens of normal people ready to fight to protect him. That was the work he should have built on.

This!  There were townspeople ready to defend Anders when you start looking for him in Act 1.  Would those same people still want to defend him after he blew up the Chantry where many of them probably went to pray?

They might.  The Chantry ignored their plight while Anders continued to heal them day after day, year after year.

[Ashwraith]

silver-crescent wrote...

That maker aspect is interesting. If you befirend (but not romance) Anders at the final dialogue he actually says something among the lines of "maybe now that we have the maker on our side we will achieve something".

M'kay, sort of unrelated. But I was playing DA2 the other day, and I had my headphones in. Sometimes when I'm replaying a scene I've already watched, I'll listen to music instead, because I've heard it all before.
I had my MP3 player on shuffle, and I was playing Anders' 'Dissent' quest.
And this song started playing, and I just started bawling. For no readily apparent reason.
I am a giant wuss, people.
A giant wuss.

[Ninche]

Siduri wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Elthina IS in charge of the templars, but Anders struck against her for her status as a symbol as much as he did for her connection to the templars. Anders ensured that by destroying a sacred religious leader and place of worship, he would galvanize the public as well as the templars against the mages, giving the mages no option for peaceful submission

This is actually what makes me want to grab him by the feathers and shake him hard. If he turns the entire population against the mages, then it doesn't matter if the Circle stands or falls--mages will be hunted everywhere by pitchfork-wielding mobs. That's no kind of freedom.

Anders did more for the cause of mage liberation by running his clinic than by fighting templars. Just showing people how much a free mage can help them and their communities--that the chantry shouldn't have a lock on magical power because magic saves lives. He totally had dozens of normal people ready to fight to protect him. That was the work he should have built on.

A smart magical resistance movement would focus on "winning hearts and minds." The mages would travel around, passing out Anders' manifestos and offering free healing services to the towns they passed through. Soon ordinary people would be downright eager to shelter apostates--they would be clamoring to have a rogue mage come through their town. The templars couldn't hunt mages effectively if the entire population was aiding the underground.

Instead, in one stroke Anders/Vengeance sacrificed the years of goodwill he'd built up among the people of Kirkwall. I understand his reasoning, and maybe in the long run it could even turn out to be the right choice--if, now that he's succeeded in getting the mages to rise up, they all start doing some serious outreach work among the wider population--and quickly, too. A resistance movement cannot prevail without a lot of support from the people.

I think you underestimate the control the templars have over mages. Anders is a rather unique case - having escaped so many times and evaded them for so many years. And Hawke is totally the exception that prooves the rule. There aren't that many mages who manage to stay free long enough fo form any sort of aliances without risking being hunted down and made tranquil - even if they were gathering together to heal or preech lovely things they are still not allowed to form any organizations whatsoever and the more mages in the same place the higher the risk one of them will get tracked down which would lead to the discovery of them all. And as for spreading manifestoes and teaching people not to fear mages - do you think a small group of apostates can break hundreds of years of chantry brainwashing? Most of these people you talk about are simple peasants - the only thing they know is their local chantry and their chants, there is no way anyone would be able to make them see things the way we see them, definitely not in a short period of time. And let's not forget that Anders ran his clinic and sat idly for 6 years - and yet the mages in kirkwall were just being more and more oppressed and harmed unjustly. Even if the plan with mages teaching the ordinary person not to fear them COULD work it would have been waay too late for the mages in Kirkwall. Anders had big plans for all of Thedas but he was mainly and firstly concerned about the mages he could get in direct contact with - Kirkwall was his home for a time too. 

Your theory is lovey as a concept and trust me, I was as shocked and baffled by the chantry blowing up at first as the most pious love spreading prist girl. I couldn't get my head around it and I actually PHYSICALLY hurt me to let go of that whole idea of "there is always a peaceful solution violence is never the answer" and see beyond the boundaries of my own principles. Thedas is fictional - their political and social situation can not and should not be compared to ours at all. They have established their own rules and history and in their universe what Anders did was pretty much what had to be done. Ideally, we would have all preffered if it wasn't our LI who did it. But you have to accept people as they are and stand by them right? 

Modifié par Ninche, 01 avril 2011 - 07:10 .

[Kawamura]

shiba5 wrote...


Sebastian:  Elthina, NOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Jesus christ that no. I was totally like "oh, **** me, Anders" and then Sebastian did that and it was like, "oh, well, emotional moment over."

[Ninche]

Modifié par Ninche, 01 avril 2011 - 07:10 .

[shiba5]

Kawamura wrote...

shiba5 wrote...


Sebastian:  Elthina, NOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Jesus christ that no. I was totally like "oh, **** me, Anders" and then Sebastian did that and it was like, "oh, well, emotional moment over."

It's comedy gold to me. I'm sure they didn't mean it that way, but I can never tell with Bioware.

Modifié par shiba5, 01 avril 2011 - 07:11 .

[LT123]

I'm pretty sure I said, "Bring it!" to my computer monitor when Seb went into the "coming after your precious Anders with an army" rant.

[ipgd]

Ninche wrote...

Ideally, we would have all preffered if it wasn't our LI who did it.

Hey, speak for yourself. What about those of with pain addictions!? I wish all of my Bioware LIs would suddenly commit horrible atrocities and stomp all over my heart.

[shiba5]

LT123 wrote...

I'm pretty sure I said, "Bring it!" to my computer monitor when Seb went into the "coming after your precious Anders with an army" rant.

Why can't we have a star option to stabbity stab him right there so he can't come back to mardar us?

[mellifera]

shiba5 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

shiba5 wrote...


Sebastian:  Elthina, NOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Jesus christ that no. I was totally like "oh, **** me, Anders" and then Sebastian did that and it was like, "oh, well, emotional moment over."

It's comedy gold to me. I'm sure they didn't mean it that way, but I can never tell with Bioware.

What got me was the "your precious Anders~~" thing, since the first thing I thought was "I'll get you, my pretty, and your little dog too!"

Modifié par yukidama, 01 avril 2011 - 07:12 .

[LastFadingSmile]

shiba5 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

shiba5 wrote...


Sebastian:  Elthina, NOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Jesus christ that no. I was totally like "oh, **** me, Anders" and then Sebastian did that and it was like, "oh, well, emotional moment over."

It's comedy gold to me. I'm sure they didn't mean it that way, but I can never tell with Bioware.

It's the combination of the scream and the bug-eyed kissy lips.

Seriously, is Starkhaven the Thedas equivalent of Jersey Shore?


WE GOT A SEBAST-UATION HERE!

Modifié par Kolotosa, 01 avril 2011 - 07:14 .

[Purposeof-Flight]

LT123 wrote...

I'm pretty sure I said, "Bring it!" to my computer monitor when Seb went into the "coming after your precious Anders with an army" rant.

I'm pretty sure my middle finger was in the air.
Damn right, "my precious Anders".
And then he asks me if it were him in there would I be waffling? My answer: "No....I would've already let him live and we'd all be high fiving on our way to the Gallows by now."

[cleosilver]

leggywillow wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

So, now I'm wondering... are people missing that the Grand Cleric and Co. are in charge of the Templars? That would explain some of the terrorist talk.

It seems to me that there are two possibilities for Elthina.  One is that she has her own strong opinions and agendas and allows them to be served by willfully ignoring the duties demanded by her position.  The other is that she is truly an ineffectual ruler who would rather stick her head in the sand than fulfill her responsibilities.  So many problems could have been avoided if she had just done her job.

I got the feeling that she definitely had her own agenda but had to ensure she was percieved as neutral. I can easily see her saying "Who will bring me the heads of these troublesome Qunari" in Petrice's hearing for example

[Mxcl]

shiba5 wrote...

LT123 wrote...

I'm pretty sure I said, "Bring it!" to my computer monitor when Seb went into the "coming after your precious Anders with an army" rant.

Why can't we have a star option to stabbity stab him right there so he can't come back to mardar us?

This. A thousand times this.

[shiba5]

yukidama wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

shiba5 wrote...


Sebastian:  Elthina, NOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Jesus christ that no. I was totally like "oh, **** me, Anders" and then Sebastian did that and it was like, "oh, well, emotional moment over."

It's comedy gold to me. I'm sure they didn't mean it that way, but I can never tell with Bioware.

What got me was the "your precious Anders~~" thing, since the first thing I thought was "I'll get you, my pretty, and your little dog too!"

Or, how about his question on whether you would still leave Anders alive if Seb had been in the Chantry that night? Leave Anders alive? Hell, I'd not only leave him alive, it'd be like Mardi gras out in the streets!