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[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Sjofn wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sialater wrote...

There were quite a few in Darktown.

You know... where the Chantry won't go.

So that gives the guy who wishes mages to rule the world wielding fear the moral high ground?

He never said he wanted mages to rule the world.  In fact, he said the very opposite.

At one point he says he's never met a mage that wanted to rule the world. And I swear ten minutes later, I did a quest where a mage states that mages should, in fact, rule the world. It cracked me up.

The thing about Anders is he gets more and more "I have to rationalize the hell out of all these stupid blood mages," which of course he does, but I think an awful lot of people actually buy into it, which I think is unfortunate. Yes, the way mages get treated, especially in Kirkwall, is crappy, but that doesn't excuse blood magic and demons and turning templars into abominations for the lulz and blowing up public buildings to start a holy war. "The templars are meeeeean" is not going to fly with ordinary people when you pull crap like that. But who cares about them, right?

No kidding. I mean, Keran wasn't a bad Templar. He was doing it to feed his sister. I'm not going to assume all Templars are terrible people. It's like police officers. Yeah, you'll meet horrible ones that treat people like crap because they know they have the power and abuse it. There are those who become officers though because they want to make a difference. They're all people.

[cleosilver]

Jaulen wrote...

I'm just getting into Act 3, and playing an anti-blood mage mage....and will be doing a ton of saves and talking to Elthina a lot this game to verify that myself or not.

Becuase if that's true....Anders was SO right in what he did.

Yay. someone else playing a non blood mage mage Mine won't touch blood magic with a barge pole. She just merrily plays with the nice spirits. After all, Compassion, Hope and the rest aren't anything like demons. What could possibly go wrong:P

[greatbriton]

OraVelnoria87 wrote...

Anders' stance on blood magic changes throughout the game. I thought it was kinda creepy the way he went from being so loving and just wanting equality, to being a full out revolutionary.
Earlier in the game he saw no excuse for blood magic, and later on he justified it as something brought on by the templars. I was like whoa Anders we need to talk.

I kinda feel like he's always had that opinion.  That at points mages are pushed to the point that they feel they only have one option and that's to turn to blood magic.   Just at times he's more offended by it than other times because using blood magic does not help people see mages as non-dangerous.   He wants for all mages to turn away from using it choosing it as the last ditch effort but he can also see that sometimes the blame cannot be put entirely on the mage's shoulders.

*shrug*

[Herr Uhl]

ipgd wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

But removing all compromise, and at the same time painting a bullseye on the backs of mages doesn't seem ideal if he doesn't want mages to rule or just make their situation worse.

He just wants them to fight. He doesn't seem to have any contingency plans in plans in place. He was fully expecting to die when he destroyed the chantry, I don't think he had any visions of leading a mage rebellion to dominate Thedas.

At any rate, he never seems to indicate that he wants mages to rule, he just wants them to be free. He never talks about any sort of reform or new system, just that he thinks the current one is horrid.

So what is the point of turning the populace against them, "removing all compromise"? If there is no compromise it is either win or loose.

Win - Mages rule, Loose - Mages have it worse than ever.

What is it he wants to accomplish? Did he have no plan other than forcing mages to unite due to everyone turning against them?

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

No point in being a blood mage if people don't react to it. It would be far more interesting if they did.XD

Anders: Why!? Why did you turn to blood magic!?
Hawke: I was feeling repressed by our Templar overlords.

[Sjofn]

OraVelnoria87 wrote...

Anders' stance on blood magic changes throughout the game. I thought it was kinda creepy the way he went from being so loving and just wanting equality, to being a full out revolutionary.
Earlier in the game he saw no excuse for blood magic, and later on he justified it as something brought on by the templars. I was like whoa Anders we need to talk.

As early as the ... quest where you meet Grace (I can't remember the name, Act of Mercy?) he's starting to rationalize it with "templars are meeeeean." You fight some undead and he's all "omg they must be desperate, we're not going to make them go back to the Circle, right?" So it's not reeeeally surprising he starts to get all "blood magic is bad, but it's UNDERSTANDABLE, because templars, am i rite? But you're still a terrible person, Merril," by the end.

I forget if he does this on the friend path, but if you rival him, even as late as Act 3 he still gets angry mages do it because it's easy, and will talk to you about how it's understandable but man it does not help the cause at all. But in practice, he is a giant rationalization machine, because he's just so zealous that blood magic bad, TEMPLARS STILL WORSE. Dude is a mess. Poor guy.

[ReallyRue]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

No point in being a blood mage if people don't react to it. It would be far more interesting if they did.XD

Anders: Why!? Why did you turn to blood magic!?
Hawke: I was feeling repressed by our Templar overlords.

I would turn blood mage for that dialogue. Especially if Hawke said it with a totally straight face.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

I'm about halfway done with a short comic with Anders and Hawke. I'll post it when I'm done.

[Sjofn]

PS: I never pick blood magic either. My one mage playthrough thus far, I was a giant jerk to blood mages (including Merril) because they were the reason we can't have nice things, and it makes MANHAWKE ANGRY.

[silver-crescent]

Trophonius wrote...

So hmm.. sauce?

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

I'm a force mage. Just so I can yell "Use the force!"

[ipgd]

Herr Uhl wrote...

So what is the point of turning the populace against them, "removing all compromise"? If there is no compromise it is either win or loose.

Win - Mages rule, Loose - Mages have it worse than ever.

What is it he wants to accomplish? Did he have no plan other than forcing mages to unite due to everyone turning against them?

Mages ruling won't necessarily be the outcome. It'll be different from Tevinter; the magisters rebelled specifically because they wanted to be put back into power, and all the mages of southern Thedas are going to want are freedom and the chance to live. By forcing people who weren't previously wrapped up in the idea of revolution in the first place, the revolution may have a much more moderate outcome than it might otherwise.

But that depends on whoever ends up organizing and leading the revolution that was seeded in Kirkwall. If it's Anders, or someone going by his manifesto and using him as a martyr, freedom may by the perogative. If someone takes charge who does want to bring back the way of the Imperium, it could end differently.

OraVelnoria87 wrote...

Anders' stance on blood magic changes throughout the game. I thought it was kinda creepy the way he went from being so loving and just wanting equality, to being a full outrevolutionary. Earlier in the game he saw no excuse for blood magic, and later on he justified it as something brought on by the templars. I was like whoa Anders we need to talk.

I don't think he ever came to see blood magic as justifiable, he just feels obligated to fight the claim that mages should be imprisoned because they can turn to blood magic. It just comes down to who he's talking to; if you look at how he is with Merrill, he's gung-ho anti-demon and anti-blood magic, but when he's arguing with Meredith, it's "the only reason they're using blood magic is because you're such a ****, ******". His compulsion to be contradictory to templar supporters is stronger than his disdain for blood magic.

Modifié par ipgd, 01 avril 2011 - 09:53 .

[Purposeof-Flight]

So is my MageHawke.
A force mage, and then I forgot to give her a second specialization. Shame on me.

[silver-crescent]

I went Force Mage/Spirit Healer.

TBH I didn't really love any of the Mage specs this time around. Bring back Keeper/quality Blood Magic/non-hindering Spirit Healing.

Modifié par silver-crescent, 01 avril 2011 - 09:56 .

[mellifera]

silver-crescent wrote...

I went Force Mage/Spirit Healer.

TBH I didn't really love any of the Mage specs this time around. Bring back Keeper/quality Blood Magic/non-hindering Spirit Healing.

I adore force spec, but I threw my other point in spirit healing only because it bothered me to see that point lying there unused. I was the damager, Anders was the support mage. Worked well, though I couldn't resist giving him fireball and chain lightning. Just because.

[Herr Uhl]

ipgd wrote...

Mages ruling won't necessarily be the outcome. It'll be different from Tevinter; the magisters rebelled specifically because they wanted to be put back into power, and all the mages of southern Thedas are going to want are freedom and the chance to live. By forcing people who weren't previously wrapped up in the idea of revolution in the first place, the revolution may have a much more moderate outcome than it might otherwise.

But that depends on whoever ends up organizing and leading the revolution that was seeded in Kirkwall. If it's Anders, or someone going by his manifesto and using him as a martyr, freedom may by the perogative. If someone takes charge who does want to bring back the way of the Imperium, it could end differently.

The Tevinter mages didn't turn against the chantry, they changed it. That is a huge difference. The population followed along and fought with them when the other chantry led lands started exhalted marches. The country rebelled, not the mages.

What manifesto? The one that led him to start a war on behalf of all mages with no clear goal other than a vague sense of that freedom was needed? Meh, we'll see what happens with that in the next game probably.

[Sialater]

It's Friday afternoon and I'm about to crack open the wine. I'm tired of seriousness.

Modifié par Sialater, 01 avril 2011 - 10:02 .

[Sjofn]

yukidama wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

I went Force Mage/Spirit Healer.

TBH I didn't really love any of the Mage specs this time around. Bring back Keeper/quality Blood Magic/non-hindering Spirit Healing.

I adore force spec, but I threw my other point in spirit healing only because it bothered me to see that point lying there unused. I was the damager, Anders was the support mage. Worked well, though I couldn't resist giving him fireball and chain lightning. Just because.

I am incapable of denying Anders the fireball spell. He clearly wants to know it so bad.

[Purposeof-Flight]

Sialater wrote...

It's Friday afternoon and I'm about to crack open the wine. I'm tired of seriousness.

Second pic made me drool a little.
No lie.

[SurelyForth]

Sjofn wrote...

At one point he says he's never met a mage that wanted to rule the world. And I swear ten minutes later, I did a quest where a mage states that mages should, in fact, rule the world. It cracked me up.

The thing about Anders is he gets more and more "I have to rationalize the hell out of all these stupid blood mages," which of course he does, but I think an awful lot of people actually buy into it, which I think is unfortunate. Yes, the way mages get treated, especially in Kirkwall, is crappy, but that doesn't excuse blood magic and demons and turning templars into abominations for the lulz and blowing up public buildings to start a holy war. "The templars are meeeeean" is not going to fly with ordinary people when you pull crap like that. But who cares about them, right?

Because we can't look at the game itself and find our own reasons for why we see so many blood mages (the main being because we're the hero in a video game, and people would **** if all of our quests involved visiting the Isolationists' commune on Sundermount)?

There's the issue of the Veil in Kirkwall, there's the KC being so fanatical that her second-in-command was chosen because of his fanatcism (and for being one freed Circle away from killing innocent apprentices), there's the pressure being put on the city and its leaders by the Qunari and the influx of poverty-stricken refugees AND there's the whole thing where mages who are sent to the Kirkwall Circle have to live in a literal prison, built on the lives of slaves, and have a significantly higher than normal chance of being made Tranquil.

It's an utterly hopeless situation for most Kirkwallians, but especially for the mages. And since the mages have no rights, they can't even depend on the law to protect them and they can't even safely turn to their families for aid, lest they risk their loved ones, too. I think, for the most part, the average blood mage we meet is either just another run of the mill jackhole thug (and no better or worse than any of the other jackhole thugs it fights with) OR someone driven to desperation by circumstance.

So, on the one hand, yeah there are idiots like Terhone, that elf from On the Loose, and Quentin who are crazy and abuse their magic. But there are also idiots like that elf who poisoned a street of innocents and Petrice and Kelder who are all varying degrees of harmful to society (and who probably have comparable body counts, all told) who have no magic at all. Everyone sucks in this game. A lot. However, I can see why most of the mages suck. They're backed into a corner with nothing better to hope for. And, oh. Guess what? That corner has a demon in it waiting to drag them down.

So that's my justification for all the blood magic. I kill all the ones I can, of course, but that doesn't stop me from understanding why it happens so much in Kirkwall, and independently of being told by Anders why I should.

[Amondra]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Sialater wrote...

It's Friday afternoon and I'm about to crack open the wine. I'm tired of seriousness.

Second pic made me drool a little.
No lie.

Already started on my ale lol and the second pic is sheer hotness, the first one, is just an overload os sexy, I am surprised the paper didn't burst into flames because of it<3

[Sjofn]

I get that Kirkwall is a hellmouth and that's why there are so many blood mages. It doesn't change the fact that blood mages are exactly why stuff like the Circle exists. But handwaving it with "the templars are mean, therefore it's all good" is just a rationalization that doesn't carry a lot of weight with me. They use it because it's easy. It's understandable, I have absolutely no doubt people would act that way. People love the easy path. But that is exactly the reason mages are so horribly oppressed.

Until they knock that off, until they show they themselves have little tolerance for people who do that, no one is ever going to believe them when they insist they're just being oppressed and would totally do nothing but conjure cute kittens for orphans if left to their own devices.

[Purposeof-Flight]

Don't forget Emile!
He was the scariest blood mage. I was flippin' out over that man.

[leggywillow]

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Don't forget Emile!
He was the scariest blood mage. I was flippin' out over that man.

He was certainly the creepiest blood mage, that's for sure.  Seriously.  He skeezed me out big time.  The dude offered to give Lady Hawke a tongue bath.  ::shudders::

[Purposeof-Flight]

leggywillow wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Don't forget Emile!
He was the scariest blood mage. I was flippin' out over that man.

He was certainly the creepiest blood mage, that's for sure.  Seriously.  He skeezed me out big time.  The dude offered to give Lady Hawke a tongue bath.  ::shudders::

Where does he say that?
I just got a line about his stout lance, then I told him I was carting him off to the templars...but we made a deal. He got one night of pleasure with a waitress (or whatever) then off to the Gallows with him. In my pro-templar playthrough.