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[YamiSnuffles]

VampOrchid wrote...

I am happy with the end of the game.

The whole warden and champion dissapearing though, what's with that? I'm sure we will find out in either DLC or DA3, but what I don't want is a story telling us what happened to them. I want to be a part of it. I want to be able to take part of that story and see what happens with our Anders. I'm still hoping for a 'good' ending with Justice. Don't want no Angst, Anders must die to free justice so that he can die sane crap.

Seconded. I think anyone who romanced and stuck with Anders til the end deserves a little something. I fully expect him and Hawke to have a hard life, but honestly, can't they get some sort of break? Even without Justice, they'd still be on the run with all sorts of other problems.

[maselphie]

nenosronhir wrote...

Maker, but this thread moves so fast! *trying to catch up, failing miserably!*

Made a couple of banners in the meanwhile because I felt like it - so feel free to nab if any strike your fancy. If anyone's got a preferred image/screencap/quote/what-have-you they'd wanna see, gimme a heads up and I'll do my best to comply (but I'm pretty bad at gifs, so no promises there in regards to non-craptasticalness XD). A few I've already posted but I might as well compile 'em since they're kinda scattered XD

I'll piggyback and share what I posted in the Anders' Admirers group:

static static

Also ... I don't want to sound weird ... Can we NOT use the banner with the chantry blowing up? A major spoiler in a sig doesn't sound like a good idea ... and most of why it was awesome was that it was a surprise (to me, at least) ... Just a thought!

[Sarah1281]

I see your point about that, at least for the next few weeks until people have finished the game.

[BlastedLands]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

VampOrchid wrote...

I am happy with the end of the game.

The whole warden and champion dissapearing though, what's with that? I'm sure we will find out in either DLC or DA3, but what I don't want is a story telling us what happened to them. I want to be a part of it. I want to be able to take part of that story and see what happens with our Anders. I'm still hoping for a 'good' ending with Justice. Don't want no Angst, Anders must die to free justice so that he can die sane crap.

Seconded. I think anyone who romanced and stuck with Anders til the end deserves a little something. I fully expect him and Hawke to have a hard life, but honestly, can't they get some sort of break? Even without Justice, they'd still be on the run with all sorts of other problems.

as much as i'd like that i  (sadly) suspect that's not the way bioware rolls...
but i always hope for the best, the heartstabbing wears of a bit:lol:

[Lady Dino]

 So I was reading the guide and apparently there are mages in Rivian who do the whole "nice spirit possession" thing. I bet they'd know more about controlling the spirit within and what have you.


I don't actually want Justice to separate from Anders though. Anders has been irreparably changed by their joining, and even Merrill's Keeper says that exorcising a spirit will damage the host's soul forever. As if Anders' poor soul wasn't already damaged enough. 

Modifié par Lady Dino, 17 mars 2011 - 04:46 .

[nenosronhir]

Yeah, someone asked for (or mentioned) wanting a general gif of the Chantry going asplodey, so I obliged - didn't expect anyone to pop it in their sigs yet. I certainly had no intention of it - I can absolutely remove them for now, though, if they are/have been a problem somewhere?

I your banners, btw maselphie. *3*

[Sialater]

Lady Dino wrote...

 So I was reading the guide and apparently there are mages in Rivian who do the whole "nice spirit possession" thing. I bet they'd know more about controlling the spirit within and what have you.


I don't actually want Justice to separate from Anders though. Anders has been irreparably changed by their joining, and even Merrill's Keeper says that exorcising a spirit will damage the host's soul forever. As if Anders' poor soul wasn't already damaged enough. 

They just need to find a better balance.  Justice doesn't get certain things in the material world.  Like compassion and mercy.  Anders needs to be the one in charge and not eclipsed.

[Lady Dino]

Sialater wrote...

Lady Dino wrote...

 So I was reading the guide and apparently there are mages in Rivian who do the whole "nice spirit possession" thing. I bet they'd know more about controlling the spirit within and what have you.


I don't actually want Justice to separate from Anders though. Anders has been irreparably changed by their joining, and even Merrill's Keeper says that exorcising a spirit will damage the host's soul forever. As if Anders' poor soul wasn't already damaged enough. 

They just need to find a better balance.  Justice doesn't get certain things in the material world.  Like compassion and mercy.  Anders needs to be the one in charge and not eclipsed.

Yeah, exactly. That's why I'm thinking a trip to Rivian is forth coming. Or the Tevinter Imperium I guess. <_<

[PlayxDead88]

 This is completely random- but on my way to school today, I was listening to music on my iPod and the new Within Temptation song "Where is the Edge?" came on, and the lyrics instantly reminded me of Anders and what he goes through up until he blows up the Chantry:



I listened to it on repeat a couple of times and in my head I was thinking "This is the song that would go through my head on my second playthrough when talking with Anders."

[YamiSnuffles]

Sialater wrote...

Lady Dino wrote...

 So I was reading the guide and apparently there are mages in Rivian who do the whole "nice spirit possession" thing. I bet they'd know more about controlling the spirit within and what have you.


I don't actually want Justice to separate from Anders though. Anders has been irreparably changed by their joining, and even Merrill's Keeper says that exorcising a spirit will damage the host's soul forever. As if Anders' poor soul wasn't already damaged enough. 

They just need to find a better balance.  Justice doesn't get certain things in the material world.  Like compassion and mercy.  Anders needs to be the one in charge and not eclipsed.

I don't have a problem with Justice staying if they can find a nice balance. I just don't want Anders to have to die in order for things to work out with Justice. Personally I think it would be cool if they could find a way to restore Justice to his former non-Vengeancy self and Anders could have extra spirit powers in the process. Like, when he temporarily undid Karl's tranquility. I think this would be the best way for him to atone for the damage he's done.

I don't think asking Anders to not have to go completely insane/be killed is asking too much is it. Not like a relationship with him would be a walk in the park at any rate.

[panamakira]

haha~ I love how you can't tell how I feel about the game and the Anders romance with my sigs.....really who knew?

Anyway, I made some new siggies to cheer me up!









Feel free to use them!

Modifié par panamakira, 17 mars 2011 - 05:11 .

[nenosronhir]

Hrm, I'd argue that Justice was beginning/capable of grasping compassion and mercy in Awakening, and that it's Anders' hatred and frustration that ultimately stunts any emotional growth Justice might have had. More than just finding a balance, Anders needs to get a grip on his anger before he can begin controlling Justice, if that makes any sense?

The impression I get is that ultimately he can't devote himself to putting up a fight against Justice's will because he's blinded by his own hatred of the Chantry and the Templars. He can't fight it because he feels in his gut, because of his anger, that this is the course of action that needs to be taken, right or not.

I get the sense that after the Chantry debacle he feels he's finally taken that step into doing something, so maybe he can begin working towards letting some of that anger go? fhjdkalf at least I really hope so, but that might just be my optimism talking. ;-;

[maselphie]

@nenosronhir: Oh, I see! I don't think there's any way not to spoiler people anymore, I just wish we could not. If they're coming on the forum ... that's your death sentence. And thank you. You, too.

As for whether I would want Justice out of him or not ... Personally ... argh. No. And yes. Yes because he clearly doesn't like it. He has changed too much, and he blacks out and someone else controls him. Who wants to lose control like that? Who wants to lose passion for the things they love, like drinking? Or even love itself, since Justice disapproved?

And no, because once Justice is gone, Anders will likely be a different man. A man that my char didn't fall in love with. It's for his happiness, but it might mean we ... fall out of love? We might have to end it, especially considering the circumstances with the whole blowing up stuff and running away bit. Him saying he's now "in balance" with his abomination will likely not slate anyone. MORE TRAGEDY! Is there a happy ending for him? I get possessed by a spirit of Justice, too?

[nenosronhir]

@maselphie ;-; I'm pretty sure Anders says something like "[...]strip me of that, and what is left?" in regards to Justice and his vendetta - it seems like removing Justice now would just leave him as a shell of a man. It's undeniable that the two of them have become so much more together than they ever were apart.

I'm curious, though - does he only mention the black-outs during the Rivalry path/romance, or does he mention them during the Friendship as well? The reason I wonder is because when compating the little descriptions (which may not mean much) on the Friendship/Rivalry meter, it seems like friendship-path keeps him focused, and Rivalry-path encourages his vengeance.

I wonder if antagonizing him drives him further off the deep end, and supporting him keeps him stable...

[Sarah1281]

I didn't hear anything about blackouts during his friendship romance. Does he mention them in his rivalry romance aside from the time he blacks out right in front of you because Justice doesn't want you talking Anders out of blowing up the Chantry?

Modifié par Sarah1281, 17 mars 2011 - 05:41 .

[tallon1982]

I think rather than strip Justice from Anders there should be a way to calm Justice so he's no longer Vengeance but it could just be a lost cause in the end.

[Eydris Ivo]

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if separating the two is a good idea at this point as they have become so intertwined...

[Sialater]

I think it really would do to remind him of Kristoff and Aura.

[tallon1982]

Yea it really would at that...I think Aura could talk some sense into Justice considering what happened with Kristoff. Justice was able to feel all those emotions and you'd think he'd understand this isn't the best course of action but then again Justice seemed to be hellbent on getting revenge for Kristoff in the end as well. I sort of wonder if he was corrupted before even getting to Anders.

[nenosronhir]

@Sarah Yeah, there's a conversation a Rivalmance can have with him where you can almost convince him he's gone down the wrong path, and Justice takes him over and snarls at Hawke - when Anders comes back to himself he mentions he's been blacking out a lot lately. Youtube link is a couple of pages back (I'm sure someone has the link more readily available than I - I'm on my netbook without my bookmarks D: )

@tallon Well, the reason Justice has become Vengeance is because of Anders' own anger (or at least, that's where it started). Perhaps getting Anders to let go of that post-Kirkwall might be a step in the right direction, if he can. The situation in Kirkwall was just so volatile that it's little wonder trying to control his hatred was a losing battle. :\\

[Sialater]

Then there was that idol adding a match to that kindling...

[tallon1982]

Yes but in Awakening Justice stays only to get 'justice' for Kristoff's death and if you decide to side with the Architect he goes off on the Warden about it even if you tell him it will help etc. To me there's already a fine line between justice and revenge. Sure Anders had his own anger in regards to the mage treatment but the Awakening dialogues show that Anders didn't want to get too involved because he was being selfish. Anders even says he wishes he could be selfish again lol.

[nenosronhir]

Anders also points out that the Fade is a place ruled by emotions, and that Justice doesn't know how to stand down and wait for an opportune moment to strike. We get a kind of sense of that in Awakening. He feels Kristoff's love for Aura though he doesn't understand it, but he recognises it as a powerful emotion and says he's envious of what the two share - he can't let it rest and throws himself into fighting darkspawn immediately because that's the only way to right the wrong that's been done to Kristoff.

It also comes across when the Warden first comes across him in the Fade; he's seen the injustice done to the people of the Blackmarsh and is ready to jump in head first, right now to exact his pound of flesh (though he does mention he's been watching for a while, and can stand by no more - maybe because of his nature as a spirit and his disinclination to get involved with humans?). He's impulsive and he can't understand compromise. That Anders actually controls him for that many years through the escalating mistreatment of mages is kind of a wonder, now that I think about it.

As for the Architect - again, that comes into Justice being uncompromising. Do or don't. Justice has decided on the DOWN WITH DARKSPAWN!!1! do, so treating with the Architect is in direction opposition with his vision of justice.

There's definitely a fine line, and Justice definitely crosses it in DA2, but he's being as consumed by Anders' hatred as Anders is being overtaken in turn. It's a nasty cycle. ;-;

[EnchantedEyes1]

tallon1982 wrote...

Yes but in Awakening Justice stays only to get 'justice' for Kristoff's death and if you decide to side with the Architect he goes off on the Warden about it even if you tell him it will help etc. To me there's already a fine line between justice and revenge. Sure Anders had his own anger in regards to the mage treatment but the Awakening dialogues show that Anders didn't want to get too involved because he was being selfish. Anders even says he wishes he could be selfish again lol.

I tend to agree that Justice was treading a fine line. In DAA Justice was fairly aggressive. Anders' anger may have been the catalyst but Justice wasn't too far from vengeance to begin with.

[Lady Dino]

Perhaps Justice was calmer in Kristoff's body because it was a corpse. He was only feeling the echo of the man's emotions. Reliving memories and the like, not actually feeling them.

Where as Anders is alive, acting and reacting, carrying poor Justice along for the ride. Justice might have become overwhelmed and driven mad by the full force of human emotions.