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[Amondra]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Still, I'm glad you agree with me. The background stuff should've definitely been worked into the foreground as you said

Seriously.  If you don't pay attention to every little detail, you don't get the whole picture.  Let's say you don't have Seb's DLC.  You know nothing about the Exalted March.  Let's say Ser Kerras died in your playthrough/you don't listen to the ambient dialogue.  You don't know that Meredith calls for the Right BEFORE Anders goes crazysauce.

Uh...BioWare?  These things are kind of important to know.  They change so much about Act 3.

Little late.  Anders and Seb also go into this banter and Anders mentions rape and beatings from Templar's he kinda makes it sound like a commen thing in the circles, and he just got lucky.  I wonder if Anders wasn't always in the Fereldan circle.  If he is from the Anderfels and from what I read the are hardcore into the Chantry(but not as much as the Gray Wardens) I can imagine the circle there must be brutal, might even make Kirkwall seem like a walk in the park.

Edit for the top:

Modifié par Amondra, 07 avril 2011 - 11:07 .

[Sjofn]

They do make it sound like the Circles sometimes shuffle mages around (it's how Karl wound up in Kirkwall, after all), but I remember Finn talking about Anders as an apprentice, so I kinda think he was probably at the Fereldan one all along.

Of course, to me, that banter more sounds like "Our Circle wasn't that bad, but that isn't the point." Nor should it be, really. "You guys aren't being raped, what's the big deal" is uh. Not the argument you probably want to be making if you're pro-templar.

[phantomdragoness]

Amondra wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Still, I'm glad you agree with me. The background stuff should've definitely been worked into the foreground as you said

Seriously.  If you don't pay attention to every little detail, you don't get the whole picture.  Let's say you don't have Seb's DLC.  You know nothing about the Exalted March.  Let's say Ser Kerras died in your playthrough/you don't listen to the ambient dialogue.  You don't know that Meredith calls for the Right BEFORE Anders goes crazysauce.

Uh...BioWare?  These things are kind of important to know.  They change so much about Act 3.

Little late.  Anders and Seb also go into this banter and Anders mentions rape and beatings from Templar's he kinda makes it sound like a commen thing in the circles, and he just got lucky.  I wonder if Anders wasn't always in the Fereldan circle.  If he is from the Anderfels and from what I read the are hardcore into the Chantry(but not as much as the Gray Wardens) I can imagine the circle there must be brutal, might even make Kirkwall seem like a walk in the park.

When Anders mentioned this, it made me want to side with him even more. I never considered rape would occure, so hearing this was a shock to me. Boy did I feel naive then. lol  I can understand why Daddy Hawke wanted to keep his daughter(s)/and son out of the Circle so badly.

[Amondra]

Yeah sounds like Fereldan circle is the only sane one -.-

I never go pro-templar. However some of Seb's arguments to Anders were stupid, I was like "You know he is winning Seb right?"

When Anders had that banter with him, my heart felt like breaking. It is sad to think stuff like that happens and they have no one to turn to who will actually listen.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Sjofn wrote...
Of course, to me, that banter more sounds like "Our Circle wasn't that bad, but that isn't the point." Nor should it be, really. "You guys aren't being raped, what's the big deal" is uh. Not the argument you probably want to be making if you're pro-templar.

Especially since Sebastian's counterargument makes no freaking sense.

"You were given to the Circle.  I was given to the Chantry.  Hawke was driven from home by the Blight.  None of us are free."

Uh...Seb, I love you to bits, but you have a dumb-dumb.  Elthina gave you a huge bag of money and gave you the choice to walk away.  Anders was taken away from his parents at age twelve, shipped off to the Circle, and at one point imprisoned for a YEAR in solitary.  How is that at all the same thing?

[Kawamura]

Yeah. Anders seems to have a lot of presence at the Fereldan circle, including notes in their books. I think he's been there the whole time, just like the Warden and Jowan.

[Miri1984]

@Amondra Indeed. And I think the whole Uldred Rebellion is partly to blame for the Kirkwall situation. As Cullen says, look what treating the mages nicely in Ferelden got them . Which is unfair, because Uldred was a dick.

[Ryzaki]

It would odd for Anders to have been in the Fereldan Circle the whole time yet not metion the insanity that occurred under Uldred.

Or am I missing a conversation?

And Uldred was a douche spurred on by Dumbgain. Ugh. All he collatoral damage Loghain caused. I might reload a landsmeet save just to take his head off again. Paranoid idiot.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 07 avril 2011 - 11:16 .

[AquilaChrysaetos86]

Ryzaki wrote...

It would odd for Anders to have been in the Fereldan Circle the whole time yet not metion the insanity that occurred under Uldred.

Or am I missing a conversation?

Maybe he was on the run again during that whole mess? I dunno, just a guess.

[mellifera]

Lol Anders is like Gollum.

[Darowyn]

AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It would odd for Anders to have been in the Fereldan Circle the whole time yet not metion the insanity that occurred under Uldred.

Or am I missing a conversation?

Maybe he was on the run again during that whole mess? I dunno, just a guess.

I'm pretty sure that was when he was solitary confinement. Esp with the Mr. Wiggums comment in Awakenings. He probably escaped in the mess before folks remembered he was locked up.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ryzaki wrote...

And Uldred was a douche spurred on by Dumbgain. Ugh. All he collatoral damage Loghain caused. I might reload a landsmeet save just to take his head off again. Paranoid idiot.  

I lol'd.

And since I played a Amell, nothing Loghain did (except the enslavement of the city elves) made me angrier than his interference at the Circle.  Betraying the Wardens?  Meh.  Seizing the throne?  *yawn*

F---ing with my fellow mages and causing the whole tower to go kaput?  RAEEEEEEG <_<

[phantomdragoness]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Sjofn wrote...
Of course, to me, that banter more sounds like "Our Circle wasn't that bad, but that isn't the point." Nor should it be, really. "You guys aren't being raped, what's the big deal" is uh. Not the argument you probably want to be making if you're pro-templar.

Especially since Sebastian's counterargument makes no freaking sense.

"You were given to the Circle.  I was given to the Chantry.  Hawke was driven from home by the Blight.  None of us are free."

Uh...Seb, I love you to bits, but you have a dumb-dumb.  Elthina gave you a huge bag of money and gave you the choice to walk away.  Anders was taken away from his parents at age twelve, shipped off to the Circle, and at one point imprisoned for a YEAR in solitary.  How is that at all the same thing?

Sebastian hides behind the Maker and hopes only his silent deity can fill in the gaps of his logic.

[YamiSnuffles]

Ryzaki wrote...

It would odd for Anders to have been in the Fereldan Circle the whole time yet not metion the insanity that occurred under Uldred.

Or am I missing a conversation?

And Uldred was a douche spurred on by Dumbgain. Ugh. All he collatoral damage Loghain caused. I might reload a landsmeet save just to take his head off again. Paranoid idiot.  

Maybe he was in his year of solitary at the time? Or had already escaped? I dunno. It is weird that it didn't really come up. Although, I seem to recall the end of his "the Ferelden Circle was more fun" speech ending with him saying, "until the abominations."

[TripLight]

[Amondra]

Ryzaki wrote...

It would odd for Anders to have been in the Fereldan Circle the whole time yet not metion the insanity that occurred under Uldred.

Or am I missing a conversation?

And Uldred was a douche spurred on by Dumbgain. Ugh. All he collatoral damage Loghain caused. I might reload a landsmeet save just to take his head off again. Paranoid idiot.  

No you didn't I found it odd to considering his nickname Anders comes from him being from the Anderfels, and I would assume they have a circle there.  I mean if was born and lived in Fereldan there would be no need for the Anders nickname.

The Uldred thing was just a plot move for you to find conflict in the tower honestly.  However, if you remember when you have the war meeting Uldred offers to light the becan and the mother there shoots him down with some venomess words, maybe that started his movement into madness.

[Sjofn]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Sjofn wrote...
Of course, to me, that banter more sounds like "Our Circle wasn't that bad, but that isn't the point." Nor should it be, really. "You guys aren't being raped, what's the big deal" is uh. Not the argument you probably want to be making if you're pro-templar.

Especially since Sebastian's counterargument makes no freaking sense.

"You were given to the Circle.  I was given to the Chantry.  Hawke was driven from home by the Blight.  None of us are free."

Uh...Seb, I love you to bits, but you have a dumb-dumb.  Elthina gave you a huge bag of money and gave you the choice to walk away.  Anders was taken away from his parents at age twelve, shipped off to the Circle, and at one point imprisoned for a YEAR in solitary.  How is that at all the same thing?

I think it makes sense from a certain angle. People get given to the Chantry all the time, and while they technically have the choice to walk away (not Sebastian himself, I'm talking kids whose parents dump them there), they aren't really equipped to do anything else. It's a little like how Gaider explains the Tranquil don't have to stay at the Circle, but they do because it's the least crappy option. Nothing but crappy options plus a single less crappy option is hardly a choice at all. All Sebastian is really saying is that no one is completely, utterly free to do whatever they want. And we aren't.

And it's not like Anders did nothing to get that year in solitary. He was merrily choosing to run away again and again and again, even though he knew he'd eventually be caught. He was willing to take that risk. Yeah, solitary is terrible and overdoing it, but it wasn't like Anders was just quietly reading a book when the templars decided to pick him to be a dick to.

[AquilaChrysaetos86]

Darowyn wrote...

AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It would odd for Anders to have been in the Fereldan Circle the whole time yet not metion the insanity that occurred under Uldred.

Or am I missing a conversation?

Maybe he was on the run again during that whole mess? I dunno, just a guess.

I'm pretty sure that was when he was solitary confinement. Esp with the Mr. Wiggums comment in Awakenings. He probably escaped in the mess before folks remembered he was locked up.

Mm, that makes more sense with the timelines actually. Rather ironic that his punishment kept him safe though.

[Tasmen]

yukidama wrote...

Lol Anders is like Gollum.

Cannot shake image in my head now...

Anders stroking his "manifesto"...  "My precious...."

[Sjofn]

And I think Anders DOES mention Uldred? He definitely mentions the abominations, at least. I could be high about Uldred though.

[Amondra]

Sjofn wrote...

And I think Anders DOES mention Uldred? He definitely mentions the abominations, at least. I could be high about Uldred though.

He does.  He says "It's not about the Uldreds, it's not about being raped or beaten by a Templar.  It's about having the rights all living beings have."

Something to that nature.

[phantomdragoness]

Sjofn wrote...

And I think Anders DOES mention Uldred? He definitely mentions the abominations, at least. I could be high about Uldred though.

It was in Awakening he mentioned Mr. Wiggums (however the heck you spell that) turning into an abomination and taking down a few templars when Uldren took over.

[Ryzaki]

YamiSnuffles wrote...
Maybe he was in his year of solitary at the time? Or had already escaped? I dunno. It is weird that it didn't really come up. Although, I seem to recall the end of his "the Ferelden Circle was more fun" speech ending with him saying, "until the abominations."

Perhaps. But wouldn't he have been prime bait in solitary? It is weird. 

Though hm...maybe I have to play through that part again. 

Amondra wrote...
No you didn't I found it odd to considering his nickname Anders comes from him being from the Anderfels, and I would assume they have a circle there.  I mean if was born and lived in Fereldan there would be no need for the Anders nickname.

The Uldred thing was just a plot move for you to find conflict in the tower honestly.  However, if you remember when you have the war meeting Uldred offers to light the becan and the mother there shoots him down with some venomess words, maybe that started his movement into madness.

 

There wouldn't be. 

Frankly that irritated me. Stupid Chantry people. (And let's not get into that b**** who called you a heathen for not wanting her blessing. Ugh). 

I think Uldred was mad before that. 

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I lol'd.

And since I played a Amell, nothing Loghain did (except the enslavement of the city elves) made me angrier than his interference at the Circle.  Betraying the Wardens?  Meh.  Seizing the throne?  *yawn*

F---ing with my fellow mages and causing the whole tower to go kaput?  RAEEEEEEG <_<

Yeah my first (and most played) was a Cousland. So yeah. Him being in bed with Howe led to Cousland RAGE. decapitated both him and Loghain. Couldn't help it.   

Still ugh. So many people screwed over. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Sjofn wrote...
All Sebastian is really saying is that no one is completely, utterly free to do whatever they want. And we aren't.

That's true, but some people in Thedas are a lot less free than others.  Sebastian comparing his situation to Anders or Hawke is IMO oversimplification.  Seb had a whole array options when that sack of gold hit his hand.  Anders' options upon entering the Circle were much more narrow; accept or resist, much like the qunari.

[Ryzaki]

phantomdragoness wrote...

Sjofn wrote...

And I think Anders DOES mention Uldred? He definitely mentions the abominations, at least. I could be high about Uldred though.

It was in Awakening he mentioned Mr. Wiggums (however the heck you spell that) turning into an abomination and taking down a few templars when Uldren took over.

Odd that Mr. Wiggums doesn't turn on him then.