57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Heidenreich]

So just a note. My best straight-male friend and I have been squeeing over DA2 for a couple weeks... and he admitted his first playthrough was a m!hawke/anders playthrough. Completely by accident. And it didn't ruin the game for him at all.


I say these guys complaining need to take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what they're really upset about. Guys who are comfortable with who they are shouldn't be bothered by gayness in a video game. srsly.

[sassperella]

Yes I don't know why they can't just take the small rivalry hit and move on. It only happens once and after that you have to actively flirt with him to initiate anything further. The rivalry is small and Anders is one of the easiest companions to get friendship on in the game.
It's not like the game forces you to jump into bed with him, it's a case of you're nice to him, he flirts, you reject him, he's embarrassed. but he gets over it fast and it doesn't affect any future friendship and he does exactly the same to female Hawkes who use the diplomatic option for that question.
That's what happens when  Bioware try to make the characters more human....sigh.

Modifié par sassperella, 09 avril 2011 - 01:18 .

[Ninche]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Ninche wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Both sides of this debate have a point really.

But Bioware really should have thought about the fact that some straight guys playing the game wouldn't want another guy flirting with them. Even if it's just mild, and just a game.

Also: Do you realise how hard it is to romance another LI when Anders is flirtng with you regardless of gender!? Do you, Bioware? Do you!?!

Especially when he pulls the kicked-puppy look and... oh geez... 
(This is WORSE than Alistair.)

I'm curious: How many women have complained that Izzy comes onto them at the end of her first quest?

That's what I said (because I had this argument with the bf yesterday) and he went: you're a woman. 
As sexist as that sounds it's sort of true. We all know getting offended at Anders flirting with you is nothing short of idiotic, but people get offended non the less. I'm just saying instead of paraphrasing our arguments and convincing each other of all the things we ALL know ANYWAY, we need to accept that straight guys can be quite basic and find a way to deal with it. I'd rather they didn't have 'more stupid reasons to hate him. Is all I'm saying. 

Ugh, there was a whole controversial thread about majority and entitlement, and I think this kind of fits right into it. Anyway I have to disagree with the "shut up and deal with it" notion, for many, many reasons, but i do not wish to elaborate because 1)i have a headache from last night and 2)i have to get ready to work my 9 hour shift 

By "find a way to deal with it" I meant we need to blow them up. Obviously. 

Haha no, I am afraid you are misunderstanding me ^^ I wouldn't change anything about Anders at all, all I am saying is I see why straight guys have issues with his sexuality and I wish they didn't because they already have other reasons to hate him. 

But yes, even I thought the reason Bioware gave us Leliana and Zevran in Origins was to be politically correct without actually embracing it. But then The Calling came out and I was like "wow they actually DO embrace homosexuality in the Thedas universe" So I'm really happy and proud with DA2. Everybody should be able to kiss everybody. 

[nekhbet]

There's the option to tell Anders that his advances are not welcome... It's right there below the two hearts when that line comes up, if someone didn't manage to tell him to back off gently earlier. I don't understand how do people not get this. It's so bloody simple, just don't encourage him when he asks if he's making Hawke uncomfortable, and it'll nip the romance at the bud and people can focus on friending him still without a major hit in friendpoints.

Ugh. Annoying.

[Dunizel]

Heidenreich wrote...


I say these guys complaining need to take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what they're really upset about. Guys who are comfortable with who they are shouldn't be bothered by gayness in a video game. srsly.

Not to mention that Anders is flirting with their character, not with them, the hell. It is some serious issue if they feel "threatened"  by a videogame character. 
I simply don't want to imagien how they would react in a real life situation...and Anders is being allusive and nothing more at the start. it's not like he just touches you if you don't want to. And before the first kiss, you have again another wheel to choose id you want to stop it. Pretty much like the Zevran's massage, with the difference that here, if you are really so dense that you can't understand, you have the heart options...

[signcherie]

My husband hasn't started DA2 yet. He's been taking forever finishing Awakening and the other DLC (he just has Witch Hunt left now). Anders was one of his favorite Awakening characters, he took him everywhere. Then he saw me watching this awesome Twix video.

Being a silly guy, the next time he loaded up Awakening, he walked his little dwarf up to Anders and said, "Listen, bro, I'm not interested in any biscuits and chocolate."

And I said, "He won't hit on you, you know. Well...he might hit on you---"

To which my husband interrupted, "Oh, I don't care if he does. That doesn't bother me. I think the dude's awesome."

And I was very proud.

Modifié par signcherie, 09 avril 2011 - 01:25 .

[Threeparts]

I think some of the problem might come from those who are injecting a little too much of themselves into the character. They're not playing Garrett Hawke, they're playing themselves in Hawke's world, and by that point in the story they're so immersed that they are personally offended by something that happens to the character.
Might also explain why Anders gets such a raw deal in the end: the immediate reaction is one of betrayal and hatred, and at that point he's betrayed you, not your Hawke, and it becomes difficult to examine objectively.

I wonder if people who are experienced in roleplaying beyond computer RPGs - whether text-based, table-top or LARP - are better at separating what happens to the character versus their own personal take on it. Hawke has every reason to dislike Anders, but having it spill over into the actual players taking it personally just screams of crossing the IC/OOC line.


Also: this is not meant to come across as judgey as it might sound; I'm genuinely curious about that last point.

Modifié par Threeparts, 09 avril 2011 - 01:29 .

[Ninche]

nekhbet wrote...

There's the option to tell Anders that his advances are not welcome... It's right there below the two hearts when that line comes up, if someone didn't manage to tell him to back off gently earlier. I don't understand how do people not get this. It's so bloody simple, just don't encourage him when he asks if he's making Hawke uncomfortable, and it'll nip the romance at the bud and people can focus on friending him still without a major hit in friendpoints.

Ugh. Annoying.

It's not even that they're afraid he'll ninja kiss them or whatever. It's that they now see him as the GAY character. And that just ruins him for many many straight guys - they just won't be able to look beyond that. It's a real shame - Anders is such a COOL character - he looks cool, he sounds cool, he GLOWS! All that awesomeness goes unappreciated because people are retarded. 


<_<

[nekhbet]

Threeparts wrote...

I think some of the problem might come from those who are injecting a little too much of themselves into the character. They're not playing Garrett Hawke, they're playing themselves in Hawke's world, and by that point in the story they're so immersed that they are personally offended by something that happens to the character.
Might also explain why Anders gets such a raw deal in the end: the immediate reaction is one of betrayal and hatred, and at that point he's betrayed you, not your Hawke, and it becomes difficult to examine objectively.

I wonder if people who are experienced in roleplaying beyond computer RPGs - whether text-based, table-top or LARP - are better at separating what happens to the character versus their own personal take on it. Hawke has every reason to dislike Anders, but having it spill over into actual gamers taking it personally just screams of crossing the IC/OOC line.

I can't say I've noticed much difference, it's more of a personality trait thing . I run an RP server for NWN so got a bit of experience in that department... some people just take stuff personally and others don't, regardless of their RP background.

[Ninche]

signcherie wrote...

My husband hasn't started DA2 yet. He's been taking forever finishing Awakening and the other DLC (he just has Witch Hunt left now). Anders was one of his favorite Awakening characters, he took him everywhere. Then he saw me watching this awesome Twix video.

Being a silly guy, the next time he loaded up Awakening, he walked his little dwarf up to Anders and said, "Listen, bro, I'm not interested in any biscuits and chocolate."

And I said, "He won't hit on you, you know. Well...he might hit on you---"

To which my husband interrupted, "Oh, I don't care if he does. That doesn't bother me. I think the dude's awesome."

And I was very proud.

Haha that's awesome ^^ I wish people like your husband were the majority of game players. My boyfriend knows I'm obsessed with Anders so now he likes to tease me and say Anders was 100 times more keen to be with his Hawke than mine. None of the "I will hurt you go away" stuff =(

[ekurian]

Ninche wrote...

nekhbet wrote...

There's the option to tell Anders that his advances are not welcome... It's right there below the two hearts when that line comes up, if someone didn't manage to tell him to back off gently earlier. I don't understand how do people not get this. It's so bloody simple, just don't encourage him when he asks if he's making Hawke uncomfortable, and it'll nip the romance at the bud and people can focus on friending him still without a major hit in friendpoints.

Ugh. Annoying.

It's not even that they're afraid he'll ninja kiss them or whatever. It's that they now see him as the GAY character. And that just ruins him for many many straight guys - they just won't be able to look beyond that. It's a real shame - Anders is such a COOL character - he looks cool, he sounds cool, he GLOWS! All that awesomeness goes unappreciated because people are retarded. 


<_<

I think the whole labeling Anders as the gay one is ridiculous; he's just more open about it than Fenris. Too many sheltered people ><

Also slightly relevant, I did a picture of my Miriel Amell clicky

Also, I recently decided to NOT click the star option to stop Anders/Vengence from killing Ella, and now I feel bad D: He's just so torn up about it, and hates himself for it. I'M SORRY I SACRIFICED YOUR SANITY FOR DRAMA ANDERS.

[nekhbet]

Ninche wrote...
It's not even that they're afraid he'll ninja kiss them or whatever. It's that they now see him as the GAY character. And that just ruins him for many many straight guys - they just won't be able to look beyond that. It's a real shame - Anders is such a COOL character - he looks cool, he sounds cool, he GLOWS! All that awesomeness goes unappreciated because people are retarded. 


<_<

Anders being bisexual was a big surprise to me, too... I just always assumed he's a closet gay. His antics in DAA triggered my gaydar big time.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Threeparts wrote...

I think some of the problem might come from those who are injecting a little too much of themselves into the character. They're not playing Garrett Hawke, they're playing themselves in Hawke's world, and by that point in the story they're so immersed that they are personally offended by something that happens to the character.
Might also explain why Anders gets such a raw deal in the end: the immediate reaction is one of betrayal and hatred, and at that point he's betrayed you, not your Hawke, and it becomes difficult to examine objectively.

I wonder if people who are experienced in roleplaying beyond computer RPGs - whether text-based, table-top or LARP - are better at separating what happens to the character versus their own personal take on it. Hawke has every reason to dislike Anders, but having it spill over into the actual players taking it personally just screams of crossing the IC/OOC line.

Good point. Silly people...
Hmm... I've been RPing for eight years, but I never noticed an issue seperating myself and my characters.
I love the cast, and I love my characters, but my characters aren't me.
God, I'd hate to be my Hawke (can you spell naive?) or the Warden (Sten has more of a sense of humour!). XD

Like come Act III, Hawke was angry/upset, and I was choking on laughter. 

[signcherie]

Ninche wrote...

signcherie wrote...

My husband hasn't started DA2 yet. He's been taking forever finishing Awakening and the other DLC (he just has Witch Hunt left now). Anders was one of his favorite Awakening characters, he took him everywhere. Then he saw me watching this awesome Twix video.

Being a silly guy, the next time he loaded up Awakening, he walked his little dwarf up to Anders and said, "Listen, bro, I'm not interested in any biscuits and chocolate."

And I said, "He won't hit on you, you know. Well...he might hit on you---"

To which my husband interrupted, "Oh, I don't care if he does. That doesn't bother me. I think the dude's awesome."

And I was very proud.

Haha that's awesome ^^ I wish people like your husband were the majority of game players. My boyfriend knows I'm obsessed with Anders so now he likes to tease me and say Anders was 100 times more keen to be with his Hawke than mine. None of the "I will hurt you go away" stuff =(

ROFL your boyfriend sounds awesome as well.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

ekurian wrote...

Ninche wrote...

nekhbet wrote...

There's the option to tell Anders that his advances are not welcome... It's right there below the two hearts when that line comes up, if someone didn't manage to tell him to back off gently earlier. I don't understand how do people not get this. It's so bloody simple, just don't encourage him when he asks if he's making Hawke uncomfortable, and it'll nip the romance at the bud and people can focus on friending him still without a major hit in friendpoints.

Ugh. Annoying.

It's not even that they're afraid he'll ninja kiss them or whatever. It's that they now see him as the GAY character. And that just ruins him for many many straight guys - they just won't be able to look beyond that. It's a real shame - Anders is such a COOL character - he looks cool, he sounds cool, he GLOWS! All that awesomeness goes unappreciated because people are retarded. 


<_<

I think the whole labeling Anders as the gay one is ridiculous; he's just more open about it than Fenris. Too many sheltered people ><

Also slightly relevant, I did a picture of my Miriel Amell clicky

Also, I recently decided to NOT click the star option to stop Anders/Vengence from killing Ella, and now I feel bad D: He's just so torn up about it, and hates himself for it. I'M SORRY I SACRIFICED YOUR SANITY FOR DRAMA ANDERS.

Angsty drama...?

Involving Anders...?

OMG! I must go and let him kill her.
RIGHT NOW.

(Yes, I'm an evil angst-addicted sadist! )

[Thiefy]

@Ninche - that's my bad then, apparently my reading comprehension skills arent quite up to par this early in the morning.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

signcherie wrote...

Ninche wrote...

signcherie wrote...

My husband hasn't started DA2 yet. He's been taking forever finishing Awakening and the other DLC (he just has Witch Hunt left now). Anders was one of his favorite Awakening characters, he took him everywhere. Then he saw me watching this awesome Twix video.

Being a silly guy, the next time he loaded up Awakening, he walked his little dwarf up to Anders and said, "Listen, bro, I'm not interested in any biscuits and chocolate."

And I said, "He won't hit on you, you know. Well...he might hit on you---"

To which my husband interrupted, "Oh, I don't care if he does. That doesn't bother me. I think the dude's awesome."

And I was very proud.

Haha that's awesome ^^ I wish people like your husband were the majority of game players. My boyfriend knows I'm obsessed with Anders so now he likes to tease me and say Anders was 100 times more keen to be with his Hawke than mine. None of the "I will hurt you go away" stuff =(

ROFL your boyfriend sounds awesome as well.

...I recently made my first male Hawke.
I was going to romance Fenris for the first time in  play throughs...

...and now I just know that I'm going to end up asking Anders to stay over.
Again.

Damnit you crazy, sexy, cat-obsessed mage!!!

[Ninche]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

@Ninche - that's my bad then, apparently my reading comprehension skills arent quite up to par this early in the morning.

Oh it's probably me, I am lying in bed with the most massive hangover ever - I needed to forget I was getting older last night. So it's hard to structure my thoughts. Also, my boyfriend's arguments made perfect sense right until I got on the forums today - I don't even remember why I was arguing in the first place So I'm 100% on your side. 

[aquaticidioticus]

I don't know if this has been posted, but it made me giggle.
http://whipyohair.de...llery/#/d39c011

Also, not really Anders related and I'm not the biggest Fenris fan... but I LOVE this. Thought I would share.
http://purple-meow.d...t.com/#/d3die4j

[ekurian]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
Angsty drama...?

Involving Anders...?

OMG! I must go and let him kill her.
RIGHT NOW.

(Yes, I'm an evil angst-addicted sadist! )

You can be all 'I don't hate you for it' and 'I'll help you control this!'

And it gets all fluffy and d'awwww with Anders being thankful you're not running away from him~

[Ninche]

ROFL your boyfriend sounds awesome as well.


...I recently made my first male Hawke.
I was going to romance Fenris for the first time in  play throughs...

...and now I just know that I'm going to end up asking Anders to stay over.
Again.

Damnit you crazy, sexy, cat-obsessed mage!!!

I am trying to ignore Anders in my new playthrough just long enough to get it on with Fenris (I've never done it), but he is making it SO DAMN HARD! Just when I've managed to convince myself Fenris is sort of sexy and I wouldn't mind hitting that Anders comes along with something like "You are a good friend. Better than I deserve" and I'm back to square one. -.- 

[ekurian]

Ninche wrote...

ROFL your boyfriend sounds awesome as well.


...I recently made my first male Hawke.
I was going to romance Fenris for the first time in  play throughs...

...and now I just know that I'm going to end up asking Anders to stay over.
Again.

Damnit you crazy, sexy, cat-obsessed mage!!!

I am trying to ignore Anders in my new playthrough just long enough to get it on with Fenris (I've never done it), but he is making it SO DAMN HARD! Just when I've managed to convince myself Fenris is sort of sexy and I wouldn't mind hitting that Anders comes along with something like "You are a good friend. Better than I deserve" and I'm back to square one. -.- 

I went in to DA2 fully convinced I'd go Fenris.

Then he said 'I HATE MAGES'.

As much as I love him, and think he's stupidly sexy, I can't get over his 'MAGES ARE EVIL ARRRG'.

[Dunizel]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

I think some of the problem might come from those who are injecting a little too much of themselves into the character. They're not playing Garrett Hawke, they're playing themselves in Hawke's world, and by that point in the story they're so immersed that they are personally offended by something that happens to the character.
Might also explain why Anders gets such a raw deal in the end: the immediate reaction is one of betrayal and hatred, and at that point he's betrayed you, not your Hawke, and it becomes difficult to examine objectively.

I wonder if people who are experienced in roleplaying beyond computer RPGs - whether text-based, table-top or LARP - are better at separating what happens to the character versus their own personal take on it. Hawke has every reason to dislike Anders, but having it spill over into the actual players taking it personally just screams of crossing the IC/OOC line.

Good point. Silly people...
Hmm... I've been RPing for eight years, but I never noticed an issue seperating myself and my characters.
I love the cast, and I love my characters, but my characters aren't me.
God, I'd hate to be my Hawke (can you spell naive?) or the Warden (Sten has more of a sense of humour!). XD

Like come Act III, Hawke was angry/upset, and I was choking on laughter. 

Sometimes I tend to play like it is me in the virtual world all right. Sometimes my characters just play like I would play in that world. 
But in DA2 I found it was very easy to "detach" my self from Hawke. To be honest I felt like my choices, aside the last one, and maybe not even that one, didn't make much difference. Probably it is even for the ten years story that had so many holes that didn't make much sense to me. Or better, ten years were passing and there was really nothing showing it, aside a few dialogues. Hell, fenris still didn't clean the corpses from his mansion, and they didn't even turn to skeltons xD

Overall, it felt more like a was watching a story in which the protagonist wasn't me, but Hawke. And to be even more honest, the protagonist was Anders in the end of the day. 

Talking about the sense of betrayal...I didn't feel at all a personal betrayel. Maybe my Hawke was all /facepalm when the Chantry exploded, maybe he wanted to kick him just for the sake of it. But I understood, or at least I tried to understand, his character and his motivation and what he has been going through all that years (again, the years which many probably don't feel passing, so Ander's action are a bit out of the blue).
I felt more betrayed by Isabela, since her motivations were really not so important in my opinion...

[silver-crescent]

aquaticidioticus wrote...

Also, not really Anders related and I'm not the biggest Fenris fan... but I LOVE this. Thought I would share.
http://purple-meow.d...t.com/#/d3die4j

Wow, just wow.

That's BEAUTIFUL

[Thiefy]

Ninche wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

@Ninche - that's my bad then, apparently my reading comprehension skills arent quite up to par this early in the morning.

Oh it's probably me, I am lying in bed with the most massive hangover ever - I needed to forget I was getting older last night. So it's hard to structure my thoughts. Also, my boyfriend's arguments made perfect sense right until I got on the forums today - I don't even remember why I was arguing in the first place So I'm 100% on your side. 

haha hell yeah. i dont quite have a massive hangover but i was out with my girls last night too and may or may not have had some whiskey, and rum and other stuffs get into my bloodstream as well. blows because i want to roll over in my nice comfy bed but i can't. instead i'm getting ready at a snail pace and inbetween stuff i am posting here on the forums. maybe its better to say that inbetween posts i am getting ready.