57020 réponses à ce sujet

[YamiSnuffles]

I just flat out disagree that Anders is unaware of what's happening if you take the friendship path. No matter which way you go, he mentions numerous times how much Vengeance/Justice has taken over who he is. It's just, one way, he has his lover supporting his struggle to free the mages of Thedas, and the other way, he's torn apart because he wants one thing but the person he loves doesn't support him in that.

So, in one case, he retains a little more sanity because he and Justice want similar things and in the other case, he is torn apart because he doesn't know what he wants anymore.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 18 mars 2011 - 12:07 .

[catabuca]

Galagraphia wrote...

I think merging with Justice further may be a good thing. When the border between them will disappear there will be also no internal conflict. Anders will become something like Flemeth, if we assume that she was once an abomination as a legend says. And Flemeth seems a pretty solid personality.

That's a really interesting point, one I hadn't considered before. Before that point though, there has to be a battle of wills between Anders and Justice though. And it seems Justice is winning to a lot of people, which would be a shame. The selfless healer who believes in equality is still there -- it would remain to be seen what a complete merger would look like. It wouldn't necessarily be good, but it needn't be bad either. you could certainly argue that it's gone too far now for Anders to try to be separated from Justice, and if it did happen a new essential part of Anders would be lost. There would be repercussions for his personality and sense of self if he was to suddenly be without this part of him that urged him forward in his cause.

[Ryzaki]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I just flat out disagree that Anders is unaware of what's happening if you take the friendship path. No matter which way you go, he mentions numerous times how much Vengeance/Justice has taken over who he is. It's just, one way, he has his lover supporting his struggle to free the mages of Thedas, and the other way, he's torn apart because he wants one thing but the person he loves doesn't support him in that.

Well everyone isn't going to agree. To me the friendship path was filled with much naivity on Anders part. In regards to mage freedoms and the spirit within. 

I saw my rival path trying to tell Anders that freedom for mages just wouldn't work in theory the way he was proposing. Anders just plain refuses to compromise (a result of Justice's hold on him). That's not healthy. No one will win that way. 

His "freedom" would end up causing more harm for the mages than the Circles ever did. 

Sometimes we have to reign people in when they're doing things that are self destructive. Not supporting a lover can sometimes be better for them. 

Doesn't help that I think the blowing up the Chantry was mainly Justice's idea. Yes of course the best way to get Justice is to get a large group of people to think your terrorists. That'll go over swimmingly.   

As for sanity: Anders didn't seem insane to me on the rivalrymance path. Just very tormented and losing himself to Justice while being aware of it. 

Either way Anders loses himself. The friendship path is just less blatant about it. Anders will never be the same again. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2011 - 12:16 .

[SgtElias]

catabuca wrote...

 you could certainly argue that it's gone too far now for Anders to try to be separated from Justice, and if it did happen a new essential part of Anders would be lost. There would be repercussions for his personality and sense of self if he was to suddenly be without this part of him that urged him forward in his cause.

Anyone but me hoping for a "Witch Hunt" esque DLC for Anders? Complecated, especially if your PC chose to kill him. I suppose he could always be resurrected twice?

Elias is grasping at straws here. Yes, I do know it.

[YamiSnuffles]

Ryzaki wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I just flat out disagree that Anders is unaware of what's happening if you take the friendship path. No matter which way you go, he mentions numerous times how much Vengeance/Justice has taken over who he is. It's just, one way, he has his lover supporting his struggle to free the mages of Thedas, and the other way, he's torn apart because he wants one thing but the person he loves doesn't support him in that.

Well everyone isn't going to agree. To me the friendship path was filled with much naivity on Anders part. In regards to mage freedoms and the spirit within. 

I saw my rival path trying to tell Anders that freedom for mages just wouldn't work in theory the way he was proposing. Anders just plain refuses to compromise (a result of Justice's hold on him). That's not healthy. No one will win that way. 

His "freedom" would end up causing more harm for the mages than the Circles ever did. 

Sometimes we have to reign people in when they're doing things that are self destructive. Not supporting a lover can sometimes be better for them. 

I agree that it's good to disagree with a lover if they're doing something destructive. I guess it just comes down to how you feel about what Anders is doing. Other than blowing up the Chantry, I agreed with just about everything he was doing. That didn't stop my Hawke from reigning him in when he went too far. It's not like in the friendship path you have to encourage everything he does.'

I also don't think he was being naive. He knew his path would mean a lot of mages would die (and would probably mean he would die) but he thought it was worth it. I think it would have been more naive of him if he thought change would be easy. He never does.

And I don't think that somehow he magically retains more of himself in the friendship path. I fully get that he gets eaten up either way. I would still argue he seems a little more sane when he's not blacking out all the time and fighting with himself.

Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I can see where people are coming from with the rivalmance, I just happen to not agree.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 18 mars 2011 - 12:19 .

[catabuca]

Ryzaki wrote...

Well everyone isn't going to agree. To me the friendship path was filled with much naivity on Anders part. In regards to mage freedoms and the spirit within. 

I saw my rival path trying to tell Anders that freedom for mages just wouldn't work in theory the way he was proposing. Anders just plain refuses to compromise (a result of Justice's hold on him). That's not healthy. No one will win that way. 

His "freedom" would end up causing more harm for the mages than the Circles ever did. 

Sometimes we have to reign people in when they're doing things that are self destructive. Not supporting a lover can sometimes be better for them. 

Doesn't help that I think the blowing up the Chantry was mainly Justice's idea. Yes of course the best way to get Justice is to get a large group of people to think your terrorists. That'll go over swimmingly.   

As for sanity: Anders didn't seem insane to me on the rivalrymance path. Just very tormented and losing himself to Justice while being aware of it. 

I think I see the issue here: it's all down to whether you believe Anders was right to blow up the Chantry or not. I support him in that, something that no doubt clouds my view of whether being a friend to him or not was the best thing to do. You don't support him in it, so for you being a rival makes more sense. If I didn't believe what he did was right, I would probably want to make him question his actions too, and would think getting him to see how Justice was ruining him would be a good thing. However, I do believe it was a necessary move, so having him tear himself apart seems more cruel than simply being there offering what support I can. Your approach is equally as valid, it just requires a different interpretation of Anders' actions.

[jab19782010]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I just flat out disagree that Anders is unaware of what's happening if you take the friendship path. No matter which way you go, he mentions numerous times how much Vengeance/Justice has taken over who he is. It's just, one way, he has his lover supporting his struggle to free the mages of Thedas, and the other way, he's torn apart because he wants one thing but the person he loves doesn't support him in that.

So, in one case, he retains a little more sanity because he and Justice want similar things and in the other case, he is torn apart because he doesn't know what he wants anymore.

I have to agree with you. This morning when I woke up and watched the rivarly romance videos I kind of thought my supporting him in my friendship path made him worse. And at first I felt bad about it. But now that I have had some time to think about it I think my friendship path is better for him. Even in the codex it says my Hawke is the only thing keeping him sane. With the rivarly path he has Justice, oppression of the Mages, AND a lover who is against him to deal with. Even if it makes him worse, adding more fuel to the fire to have my support, at least he can look at my female Hawke and know she is loving him...ALL of him...taking the good and the bad.

[snarkycleric]

Well everyone isn't going to agree. To me the friendship path was filled with much naivity on Anders part. In regards to mage freedoms and the spirit within.

To me the very fact that he merged with Justice is naive: he should never have made that pact in the first place. But I do think he's aware of the fact that he's struggling with Justice/Vengeance: there's that bit where he gets upset because he kills/nearly kills the mage girl. I can definitely see where you're coming from; I just feel that his eyes are opened either way and so I'd rather take the kinder way out because I think rivalmance is like to drive him completely mad.

[Ryzaki]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

I agree that it's good to disagree with a lover if they're doing something destructive. I guess it just comes down to how you feel about what Anders is doing. Other than blowing up the Chantry, I agreed with just about everything he was doing. That didn't stop my Hawke from reigning him in when he went too far. It's not like in the friendship path you have to encourage everything he does.'

I also don't think he was being naive. He knew his path would mean a lot of mages would die (and would probably mean he would die) but he thought it was worth it. I think it would have been more naive of him if he thought change would be easy. He never does.

It is destructive. He turned the Chantry a powerful force completely against the mages. That is far more than *his* life he is screwing with. He has endangered and killed countless lives because of his decision. He suffers from "I know better than you." syndrome. He's going to make mages free whether they agree with it or not. That's not noble.

He wants to force his change down everyone's throat. Not cool. If a mage feels better in the circle he/she should be able to go to a circle. 

I can't agree with everything he's doing. It's too...idealistic. Mages will revert to bloodmagic to stay safe, they will turn into abominations, I'm pro-mage and I'm aware of this. It has constantly happened. Whenever a mage feels cornered and fearful the claws come out. And what time to feel corned and fearful than when everyone hates you? The only thing Anders successfully did was place the Chantry in shambles and make a war happen. A war that if the Qunari get involved in he'll have successfully screwed everyone over.

Well except the Qunari.  

And I don't think that somehow he magically retains more of himself in the friendship path. I fully get that he gets eaten up either way. I would still argue he seems a little more sane when he's not blacking out all the time and fighting with himself.

Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I can see where people are coming from with the rivalmance, I just happen to not agree.

To me he seemed a little more sane with the sorrow and regret. He knows what he's doing is wrong and he's floudering. To me that hit harder than the friendship path. But of course opinions are like a**holes. (Parden the crude analogy) everyone has one. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2011 - 12:33 .

[Ryzaki]

catabuca wrote...

I think I see the issue here: it's all down to whether you believe Anders was right to blow up the Chantry or not. I support him in that, something that no doubt clouds my view of whether being a friend to him or not was the best thing to do. You don't support him in it, so for you being a rival makes more sense. If I didn't believe what he did was right, I would probably want to make him question his actions too, and would think getting him to see how Justice was ruining him would be a good thing. However, I do believe it was a necessary move, so having him tear himself apart seems more cruel than simply being there offering what support I can. Your approach is equally as valid, it just requires a different interpretation of Anders' actions.

I <3 you catabuca. 

This is very true. 

[Ryzaki]

jab19782010 wrote...
I have to agree with you. This morning when I woke up and watched the rivarly romance videos I kind of thought my supporting him in my friendship path made him worse. And at first I felt bad about it. But now that I have had some time to think about it I think my friendship path is better for him. Even in the codex it says my Hawke is the only thing keeping him sane. With the rivarly path he has Justice, oppression of the Mages, AND a lover who is against him to deal with. Even if it makes him worse, adding more fuel to the fire to have my support, at least he can look at my female Hawke and know she is loving him...ALL of him...taking the good and the bad.

You can love someone and not agree with them...you can love the bad parts of a person and still want them to get better. 

My Hawkes do love Anders. They just want Vengeance to chill. They want Anders in control. 

As for the Codex. How does it change in a rivalry romance? Or is it the same? 

[YamiSnuffles]

catabuca wrote...

I think I see the issue here: it's all down to whether you believe Anders was right to blow up the Chantry or not. I support him in that, something that no doubt clouds my view of whether being a friend to him or not was the best thing to do. You don't support him in it, so for you being a rival makes more sense. If I didn't believe what he did was right, I would probably want to make him question his actions too, and would think getting him to see how Justice was ruining him would be a good thing. However, I do believe it was a necessary move, so having him tear himself apart seems more cruel than simply being there offering what support I can. Your approach is equally as valid, it just requires a different interpretation of Anders' actions.

Agreed. As I said, I think your feelings on Anders' beliefs/actions is the core of it. I might not agree entirely with the Chantry bombing, but I entirely agree with his cause.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ryzaki wrote...

It is destructive. He turned the Chantry a powerful force completely against the mages. That is far more than *his* life he is screwing with. He has endangered and killed countless lives because of his decision. He suffers from "I know better than you." syndrome. He's going to make mages free whether they agree with it or not. That's not noble.

Actually, at least the Seekers are ... "seeking" a more peaceful resolution with the mages, as evident from the epilogue.  The Templars are the ones who have betrayed the Chantry and are hunting the mages.  I imagine the Divine, who might have considered an Exalted March, is now quite afraid of making a move because ALL the Circles have rebelled.  Now that idea almost seems to be ridiculous, especially when part of their army has openly rebelled against them.  Hawke was the one person they thought could talk them all down, but unfortunately, he/she is gone, just like the Warden.  

Tevinter must be quite pleased, though...

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 18 mars 2011 - 01:22 .

[Ryzaki]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It is destructive. He turned the Chantry a powerful force completely against the mages. That is far more than *his* life he is screwing with. He has endangered and killed countless lives because of his decision. He suffers from "I know better than you." syndrome. He's going to make mages free whether they agree with it or not. That's not noble.

Actually, at least the Seekers are ... "seeking" a more peaceful resolution with the mages, as evident from the epilogue.  The Templars are the ones who have betrayed the Chantry and are hunting the mages.  I imagine the Divine, who might have considered an Exiled March, is now quite afraid of making a move because ALL the Circles have rebelled.  Hawke was the one person they thought could talk them down, but unfortunately, he/she is gone, just like the Warden.  

Tevinter must be quite pleased, though...

Ah I see. 

Tevinter would be pleased. Not as pleased as the Qunari probably are though. 

I have a feeling that's why the Chantry won't go to full out war. The amount of devestation would be immense and the Qunari would know just when to roll on in. 

Edit totally unrelated to quoted post: Just checked the codex. He remains X kept me sane even with a rivalry mance. 

He does have moodswings if that makes any difference. 

From Codex 

After his attack on Ella, Anders lost interest in the case of mage revolution. Convinced he
was no better than an abomination, Anders was determined to gain mastery over he spirit inside
him...or die trying. It is increasingly apparent that he is losing this struggle. Prone to wild moodswings between deep melancholy and manic determination, Anders has again taken up the mantle of mage freedom--though it is unclear whether this decision came from Anders or Justice.

Garrett's status as Champion has protected Anders from the attentions of the templars, despite his increasing notoriety. Though they have lived openly together for some time, Anders remains uncomfortable in the spotlight Garrett's prescence has cast him into. In private, though, he remains a tender and devoted lover; he has repeatedly declared that Garrett is the only reason he's retained any sanity at all. 

A rivalry manced Anders. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2011 - 12:46 .

[Galagraphia]

The dalish keeper said an interesting thing about the possession: even if you free a mage from a demon, his soul will be damaged, scarred. He will never be the same again, an easy prey to spirits. So, after her words I just don't see the possibility of separating Anders and Justice. They are one, as Anders keeps saying, even after you ask him if the boom was Justice's idea. I don't think that merging means Justice will take over completely. Justice will gain from that union too. The first thing he got from Anders was anger, but Anders is so much more than just anger! I'm sure if given time Justice will see other sides of being mortal. But Hawke will have to keep him from seeing unjust things long enough to open his eyes to that. Well, that is my dream of their future, sort of. I don't know if it's possible, but in the end Anders was full of hope and looked happy.

[Ryzaki]

Galagraphia wrote...

The dalish keeper said an interesting thing about the possession: even if you free a mage from a demon, his soul will be damaged, scarred. He will never be the same again, an easy prey to spirits. So, after her words I just don't see the possibility of separating Anders and Justice. They are one, as Anders keeps saying, even after you ask him if the boom was Justice's idea. I don't think that merging means Justice will take over completely. Justice will gain from that union too. The first thing he got from Anders was anger, but Anders is so much more than just anger! I'm sure if given time Justice will see other sides of being mortal. But Hawke will have to keep him from seeing unjust things long enough to open his eyes to that. Well, that is my dream of their future, sort of. I don't know if it's possible, but in the end Anders was full of hope and looked happy.

Conner seemed not to suffer any ill effects. 

I think it depends on how the demon came in. With Conner the demon was allowed in. Maybe a forced possession is the one where the spirit ends up damaged? 

Anders does say they are one, but then he turns around and calls Justice "he" and seperates the two of them. I think Anders is trying to convince himself that they are one being so he doesn't feel so helpless. 

The memory loss, the blanks, the fact that Justice does take over completely for a second and according to Anders its been happening more and more leds me to believe that Justice will if not completely take over be extremely dominant. As for Justice being just anger he's had years to feel love and compassion from Anders and hasn't been moved. Yet Justice (the real Justice not this fake imitatior) was moved by Kristoff's wife. That was far less than a year and he was moved. This...thing that masquerades as Justice has shown no such emotions. 

Then again I'm a bit of a downer so I don't see a happy ending to this unless Justice either turns back to JUSTICE and not Justice's evil twin brother, or the two are forcibly seperated or Ander's manages to dominate Justice. 

Edit: I admit I'm bias though. I miss the old Justice. He was a stick in the mud yeah but he wasn't a complete douche like the new Justice. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2011 - 12:54 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Considering that both paths have him stated as being "determined to gain mastery over the spirit inside him... or die trying" I continue not to see the argument that Anders is somehow oblivious to what Vengeance is doing to him in the friendship route. And he is stated as being at least a little sane only because of Hawke both ways. So yes, as I said, I think both are valid depending on how you feel about Anders' cause.

EDIT: Although I do find it fascinating that the codex is identical no matter what romance route is taken, considering how different the actual romance scenes play out.

Anyhoo, I think we can all agree something must be done about Justice. What that something is, I honestly can't decide.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 18 mars 2011 - 01:03 .

[Ryzaki]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Considering that both paths have him stated as being "determined to gain mastery over the spirit inside him... or die trying" I continue not to see the argument that Anders is somehow oblivious to what Vengeance is doing to him in the friendship route. And he is stated as being at least a little sane only because of Hawke both ways. So yes, as I said, I think both are valid depending on how you feel about Anders' cause.

Anyhoo, I think we can all agree something must be done about Justice. What that something is, I honestly can't decide.

And I don't see the arguement that's he's suffering more on the rivalry path because of the codex. He has moodswings on both it seems. Maybe with a friend he suffers more quietly then with a rival he lets it out infront of them? 

I could see why he wouldn't want Hawke to see him losing to Vengeance after he/she said they believed in him and his cause. 

Though yes my arguement that Anders is somehow oblivious to Vengeance isn't very strong. I still get that impression from the friendship path though. To me it just seems that he doesn't question why he's doing something as much as he does on the rivalry path. He doesn't seem to realize maybe just maybe Vengeance is the one who wants this and not him. 

And yeah I want old Justice back. I liked old Justice.  The new one is just an uptight ****** as the Shade said. 

Though I had no problems with Anders blowing up the Chantry. My problem is that it wasn't Anders who made that decision. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mars 2011 - 01:14 .

[Nivilant]

I reckon you know a good RPG not from graphics or models, but how much it makes you think about it after the credits roll... and I've been thinking about it for a good long while now.

I'm actually really glad there isn't a compromise option. With Meredith, Anders/Justice and potentially a very opinionated and forceful Hawke (not to mention the idol itself) the idea of compromise after so much has happened just doesn't seem that plausible. Hawke isn't the Warden, who it seemed could persuade the world to stop turning with enough coercion skill. I also agree with what was said earlier about not comparing this to our real world. It'd be nice to be able to do so, but in our world there aren't dragons or lyrium idols, and in our world there are usually more than two options with each being extremes in their own right.

Do I agree with Anders nuking the chantry? Yes I do, for the most part. Not because I think terrorism is cool but because in that dramatised setting with those extreme characters there is no other way to get the ball rolling again. Meredith's reaction is telling enough, idol or no idol. Mass slaughter when the one responsible is within reach (Not that Hawke would let her get her mitts on Anders anyway).

I really hope Bioware don't abandon this plotline. I've not been so utterly enthralled by a story since Legend of Dragoon on the old PS1. Particularly since we did get a DLC for Leliana of all people (not a fan, but I don't begrudge her fans their content. Not going to whine because it isn't tailor-made for me). I think Anders is the most interesting LI option I've ever had the pleasure (pun not intended) of interacting with. I could walk straight past Fenris and Izzy and Merrill and not care.

Yes, okay, escaped slave with a tragic past. Pretty cool, and he glows? Oh, okay that's kinda neat I guess. What's that? He's moody all the time... okay. White hair you say? Um... so he was designed specifically for the fangirls/boys yes? Now I don't hate Fenris so don't jump on me, but that was always what went through my head. That and the utter lack of compassion for mages. At least Anders did try to acknowledge a good Templar when he saw one. (apologies if Fenris did the same and I missed it, hence making me wrong)

Isabela surprised me in how soft and understanding she could be, but I never really fall in with the bad girls. She was Hawke's drinking buddy along with Varric, but I never had the inclination for a romance.

And Merrill was just a bit... I don't know. It didn't feel right romancing her.

Now I freely admit I was revved up about this from the start because Anders was my favourite Awakening companion, but the sheer amount of tragedy and potential disaster in his plotlines was just...ugh. Heartrending, and it takes quite a bit to move me beyond 'aww, that's sad. Oh look backpack must buy!' So when I got past thinking 'oh, here we go. The Edward Cullen 'I'll only hurt you' romance is coming up' and started to see the fallout, I was sitting there stunned. Only happened to me about three times in my life.

Also, forget slamming into walls, give me desperate panting kisses anyday... and it makes me feel very wrong to wonder, if he's that vocal about a kiss.... then what about...other stuff...?


Yaaaay, I jumped on the longpost bandwagon with my ukelele and my straw hat.

[catabuca]

@Nivilant -- the long posts are the best ;-)

catabuca: proud member of the wall-of-text club.

[Galagraphia]

@Ryzaki, I think their merging is more complicated. I can see that they are becoming one personality. Mostly because I was playing Awakening just before I got DAII and when I started DAII I realised that Anders actually talks like Justice did in Awakening. But at the same time they exist in two dimensions: Thedas and Fade. Irving and Morrigan in Origins said that Connor didn't have a demon inside of him, demon was controlling him from the Fade. Justice in DAII, when you go to Fade, says that he hasn't been in the Fade for quite some time and in Awakening he said that he missed the Fade too. Which means he exists in physical world. Still, when Justice assumes direct control, he sort of opens a portal to the Fade, according to Karl. And Merrill says that Fade is like a different kingdom. So, maybe there is a Fade part of Justice, like body in this world, that part remains in the Fade but can be brought to this world through a tear Justice creates when Anders' eyes glow. The part of the Fade Karl felt. Well then, if they will continue merging, Justice may eventually lose that connection with his Fade "body" and Anders' blackouts will stop. Justice will completely become a part of Anders.

Gosh, me and my crazy theories.

[YamiSnuffles]

The way I see it, Friendship path Anders doesn't question why he wants this much, because he actually does agree with Justice to some extent (after all, he says loving Hawke is one of the few things they disagree on). He wants a mage revolution and Justice is helping him get that. Whereas he questions it more in the Rivalry path because Hawke is changing his mind on what he wants. Hawke convinces him that perhaps revolution isn't the way or, at least, this isn't the way to do it. Thus, when he starts to want something else, he starts to get into conflict with Justice.

So, again, it just comes down to what you/Hawke feel about the revolution. If you agree, support him. If not, I agree that it is entirely within rights to get him to see that there is another way. I still think this causes more of an inner divide just because Justice is very single minded. I don't think that is a bad thing, if you feel strongly that Anders is doing the wrong thing.

[Ryzaki]

Galagraphia wrote...

@Ryzaki, I think their merging is more complicated. I can see that they are becoming one personality. Mostly because I was playing Awakening just before I got DAII and when I started DAII I realised that Anders actually talks like Justice did in Awakening. But at the same time they exist in two dimensions: Thedas and Fade. Irving and Morrigan in Origins said that Connor didn't have a demon inside of him, demon was controlling him from the Fade. Justice in DAII, when you go to Fade, says that he hasn't been in the Fade for quite some time and in Awakening he said that he missed the Fade too. Which means he exists in physical world. Still, when Justice assumes direct control, he sort of opens a portal to the Fade, according to Karl. And Merrill says that Fade is like a different kingdom. So, maybe there is a Fade part of Justice, like body in this world, that part remains in the Fade but can be brought to this world through a tear Justice creates when Anders' eyes glow. The part of the Fade Karl felt. Well then, if they will continue merging, Justice may eventually lose that connection with his Fade "body" and Anders' blackouts will stop. Justice will completely become a part of Anders.

Gosh, me and my crazy theories.

 

Sounds like a pretty cool theory though. 

I do miss the old Justice though. 

[Nivilant]

catabuca wrote...

@Nivilant -- the long posts are the best ;-)

catabuca: proud member of the wall-of-text club.

The irony of this does not escape me.

[catabuca]

Galagraphia wrote...

@Ryzaki, I think their merging is more complicated. I can see that they are becoming one personality. Mostly because I was playing Awakening just before I got DAII and when I started DAII I realised that Anders actually talks like Justice did in Awakening. But at the same time they exist in two dimensions: Thedas and Fade. Irving and Morrigan in Origins said that Connor didn't have a demon inside of him, demon was controlling him from the Fade. Justice in DAII, when you go to Fade, says that he hasn't been in the Fade for quite some time and in Awakening he said that he missed the Fade too. Which means he exists in physical world. Still, when Justice assumes direct control, he sort of opens a portal to the Fade, according to Karl. And Merrill says that Fade is like a different kingdom. So, maybe there is a Fade part of Justice, like body in this world, that part remains in the Fade but can be brought to this world through a tear Justice creates when Anders' eyes glow. The part of the Fade Karl felt. Well then, if they will continue merging, Justice may eventually lose that connection with his Fade "body" and Anders' blackouts will stop. Justice will completely become a part of Anders.

Gosh, me and my crazy theories.

I quite like this crazy theory