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The Anders Thread: Flash Fic Contest! Details on Pg. 2274


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#19526
Aynslie

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ipgd wrote...

oh boy more twilight arguments

I think it's sort of sad that a slew of perfectly decent literary tropes have been effectively outlawed from ever being used again just because some ****ty, masturbatory teen abstinence porn novel executed them poorly. It's not like Twilight invented "NO WE SHOULDN'T BANG BECAUSE I KNOW I'M A DOUCHEBAG".

The problem with how Twilight handled it is that Edward is a neutered vegan prettyboy whose actions do absolutely nothing to suggest he's actually any danger to Bella at all. The book expects the reader to take him at his word that he's a heartless killer while providing nothing at all to inspire any sort of conflict or urgency; he just limps around, sparkling ineffectually, talking about how awful he is and doing nothing at all. The worst thing he does is basically stalk Bella, but all of the negative implications of that are somehow entirely ignored and/or twisted into a disturbing romanticism.

But even then, that wasn't what made it bad -- what really makes Twilight awful is that it has absolutely no self-awareness whatsoever. The creepy stalker/simpering doormat dynamic between Edward and Bella even could have been interesting if the book acknowledged that in any way, and actually explored their unhealthy codependency with cognizance that it was unhealthy codependency; instead it's extolled as some kind of virtuous True Love without any irony. And that's where the book really gets creepy, because you can tell that the author seriously and wholly does not understand any of the Unfortunate Implications of anything she's written.

Yes, Anders's romance has the same general trope, but it's handled so differently and so much better that I can't help but wonder if the people who make these negative comparisons have any why Twilight was actually bad beyond the idea that they're supposed to hate it and everthing it did because everyone else does. The trope itself had nothing to do with why Twilight's romance was bad -- it was the book's failure to delve beneath the shoddy veneer of romanticism and examine the gruesome train wreck that comprises the heart of their relationship. Anders is written in complete acknowledgement of the train wreck; it doesn't beat you over the head with the idea that you're supposed to think what he does is romantic. The game knows he's codependant, hypocritical and capriciously schizophrenic. Anders actually has legitimate reasons to think he will damage Hawke, and most importantly, he actually does.


Because this needs to be posted again! 

i love you for this, I'm going to cry :crying:

I think Im going to save this and repost it whenever Twilight comes up again!

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Image IPB

Modifié par Aynslie, 10 avril 2011 - 03:15 .


#19527
Purposeof-Flight

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Amondra wrote...

JesterPsychotica wrote...

@Amondra - I tried doing that by asking my Karl question, and because I am actually curious about people's thoughts.


I had a hard time guess his age really, I can only play one medium settings so one never knows.

But sense Anders love people for the whole, age might not such a super huge factor for him.


I agree with this assessment.
May I also add that I simply cannot imagine Karl and Anders doin' it? I just...I can't. I haven't particularly tried, but when he goes on this diatribe about him and Karl not having been together in a while, I just sit there going, ".............:blink:............" for like ten minutes.

#19528
Purposeof-Flight

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Aynslie wrote...

ipgd wrote...

oh boy more twilight arguments

I think it's sort of sad that a slew of perfectly decent literary tropes have been effectively outlawed from ever being used again just because some ****ty, masturbatory teen abstinence porn novel executed them poorly. It's not like Twilight invented "NO WE SHOULDN'T BANG BECAUSE I KNOW I'M A DOUCHEBAG".

The problem with how Twilight handled it is that Edward is a neutered vegan prettyboy whose actions do absolutely nothing to suggest he's actually any danger to Bella at all. The book expects the reader to take him at his word that he's a heartless killer while providing nothing at all to inspire any sort of conflict or urgency; he just limps around, sparkling ineffectually, talking about how awful he is and doing nothing at all. The worst thing he does is basically stalk Bella, but all of the negative implications of that are somehow entirely ignored and/or twisted into a disturbing romanticism.

But even then, that wasn't what made it bad -- what really makes Twilight awful is that it has absolutely no self-awareness whatsoever. The creepy stalker/simpering doormat dynamic between Edward and Bella even could have been interesting if the book acknowledged that in any way, and actually explored their unhealthy codependency with cognizance that it was unhealthy codependency; instead it's extolled as some kind of virtuous True Love without any irony. And that's where the book really gets creepy, because you can tell that the author seriously and wholly does not understand any of the Unfortunate Implications of anything she's written.

Yes, Anders's romance has the same general trope, but it's handled so differently and so much better that I can't help but wonder if the people who make these negative comparisons have any why Twilight was actually bad beyond the idea that they're supposed to hate it and everthing it did because everyone else does. The trope itself had nothing to do with why Twilight's romance was bad -- it was the book's failure to delve beneath the shoddy veneer of romanticism and examine the gruesome train wreck that comprises the heart of their relationship. Anders is written in complete acknowledgement of the train wreck; it doesn't beat you over the head with the idea that you're supposed to think what he does is romantic. The game knows he's codependant, hypocritical and capriciously schizophrenic. Anders actually has legitimate reasons to think he will damage Hawke, and most importantly, he actually does.


Because this needs to be posted again! 

i love you for this, I'm going to cry :crying:

I think Im going to save this and repost it whenever Twilight comes up again!


That's because ipgd is a big bucket of awesomesauce, topped off with superwhippedcream.

#19529
Miri1984

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@ipgd EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS TRUE AND I LOVE YOU.

Also, Karl, not a creeper IMO. I think he's a lovely guy. He sounds really nice when he briefly gets his personality back.

#19530
Amondra

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yukidama wrote...

Now, now. Anders loves and creeps on everyone. HE'S AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY CREEPER
Image IPB
See, he likes Lady Hawke too. Even if she's a templar, rainbows abound NO MATTER WHAT GUIZE LOLOL


....My brain is stilling trying to get around this picture....

#19531
JesterPsychotica

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Anders loves people as a whole now, but I don't know if he had that same outlook as a young teenager in the Circle. But he may have, in Awakenings though, it seems like that revelation is relatively new, because he was pretty selfish until meeting Justice.

#19532
Purposeof-Flight

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Sexy Hawke you've got there, Yuki. -perv wink-

#19533
Sarielle

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Amondra wrote...

JesterPsychotica wrote...

@Amondra - I tried doing that by asking my Karl question, and because I am actually curious about people's thoughts.


I had a hard time guess his age really, I can only play one medium settings so one never knows.

But sense Anders love people for the whole, age might not such a super huge factor for him.


Yeah, I got the sense age is just another thing that wasn't that big of a stumbling block for Anders.

#19534
Mxcl

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ipgd wrote...
*awesome snip*


Where is your fanclub and how do I join?

#19535
Purposeof-Flight

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Anders doesn't care if you're 90 or 20, skinny or fat, redheaded or blonde....as long as you've got an open window he can stare through at night, he's yours.

#19536
SurelyForth

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yukidama wrote...

Now, now. Anders loves and creeps on everyone. HE'S AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY CREEPER
Image IPB
See, he likes Lady Hawke too. Even if she's a templar, rainbows abound NO MATTER WHAT GUIZE LOLOL


This is the best picture. I love you. 

#19537
Tasmen

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yukidama wrote...

Now, now. Anders loves and creeps on everyone. HE'S AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY CREEPER
Image IPB
See, he likes Lady Hawke too. Even if she's a templar, rainbows abound NO MATTER WHAT GUIZE LOLOL


You are a person after my heart...  Your shading abilities are to die for.

#19538
JesterPsychotica

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Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Anders doesn't care if you're 90 or 20, skinny or fat, redheaded or blonde....as long as you've got an open window he can stare through at night, he's yours.



Image IPB AND he blows up churches? I keep wondering where he has been all my life.

#19539
Aynslie

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Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Aynslie wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Zep Rowsdower wrote...

I LOVE TWILIGHT, IT IS THE BEST OKAY. It's comedy gold. Speaking of which, I still need to get around to reading Breaking Dawn. (CHESTBURSTER VAMPIRE BABY YES)

phantomdragoness wrote...

I HATE it when people compare
Anders to Edward Cullen. Yes, there are some similarities, but I agree
with what the above posts stated. Anders does not want to hurt Hawke,
and he resists for as long as anyone is mentally able to before they
realize: "I love this person too much to just pass up the chance."

That's pretty much what Edward does though. He doesn't really want to mardar Bella and dine on her delicious lavender-scented (seriously) blood, he's just afraid he will because ~*he is a monster and can't control himself around her*~.

And come on, calling Anders a creepy panty-sniffing stalker who jizzes in Hawke's mayo is okay, but saying he's like Edward is what irritates you guys?

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

I hope and pray to god that someone compares Anders to Edward Cullen anywhere near me.
I've been needing an outlet for my anger...you know, for those crappy days. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

do you still love me, chicken


Yesssssss. <3 :D


I am less irritated with Edward in that series and more so with Bella.  She has to be the dumbest girl ever born.  I couldn't get pass the first book because of her, and I want to throttle her every time my friend makes me watch thoes damn movies...but he has girl night with me so if he is willing to watch romantic comedies with me I can endure Bella Swan's dumb ass for 2 hours.

And I identify Edward with Fenris' broody ass than Anders.  I just imagine them having the same attitude....you know.....broody.




Fenris: I hate everyone. I was a slave.
Edward: I mope all the time, because I want to suck the blood of the girl I love.
Fenris: I moved too fast for myself and slept with the girl I love, then when I left, she decided to move in my mortal enemy and now they spend all their time playing kissy face. In front of me.
Edward: Oh yeah? Well I had a group of bloodthirsty vampires seeking to destroy me. And the woman I love also loves a werewolf.
Fenris: OH YEAH? WELL MY FORMER MASTER HUNTS MY EVERY FOOTSTEP AND I CAN NEVER TRUST A MAGE.
Edward: OH YEAH? WELL I HAD TO TURN THE GIRL I LOVE INTO A VAMPIRE SO WE COULD GET MARRIED AND I COULD FINALLY HAVE SOME SEX.
Isabela: How about you both shut the **** up?


lol!  yes that is how I picture them!  you got it dead on.

#19540
ipgd

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Karl didn't even look old to me. Some people go grey early.

#19541
Ryzaki

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Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Anders doesn't care if you're 90 or 20, skinny or fat, redheaded or blonde....as long as you've got an open window he can stare through at night, he's yours.


Heh. He even watches Hawke and Izzy. 

#19542
AquilaChrysaetos86

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@Ipgd: Yes. Everything you said is brilliantly put! Hence my comment about it ruining everything. Can't even use a perfectly good trope any more without comparisons. *sigh*

Sarielle wrote...

AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...

@Payroo and Ryzaki: Dear lord, you actually managed to sit through that much? I gave up after the first page!
It probably didn't help that my creepy ex bought them for me because he thought I needed to learn about real romance. :sick:


I know this probably wasn't funny to you, but I'm laughing my head off. I actually watched the first two movies (Rifftrax versions, but still) and all I could thing was "hellooooooo stalker" the whole first movie. Because apparently following you around when you don't know he's there, and watching you sleep (also when you don't know he's there) is romantic.

:?

Eh, don't worry about it. It's far enough away now that I can see the massive amounts of stupid and fail and laugh my head off too!

Just to lighten the mood:
Buffy vs Edward (incase you haven't seen it)

MOAR Anders!!

#19543
Purposeof-Flight

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Ryzaki wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Anders doesn't care if you're 90 or 20, skinny or fat, redheaded or blonde....as long as you've got an open window he can stare through at night, he's yours.


Heh. He even watches Hawke and Izzy. 


Oh Anders, you lovely creepy man.
You can stand outside the door and watch/listen all you want when me and....whomever are gettin' busy.

#19544
Kawamura

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ipgd wrote...

Karl didn't even look old to me. Some people go grey early.


I also thought his general colour pallete was, like, to show HE'S GONE COMPLETLY EMOTIONLESS, HE HAS NO COLOURS LEFT IN HIM AT ALL, SAD SAD SAD.

So. I tend to think of him as having darker hair/skin/etc.

#19545
Kaioku

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... i'm ashamed for enabling a twilight discussion. ;A;

#19546
leggywillow

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Kawamura wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Karl didn't even look old to me. Some people go grey early.


I also thought his general colour pallete was, like, to show HE'S GONE COMPLETLY EMOTIONLESS, HE HAS NO COLOURS LEFT IN HIM AT ALL, SAD SAD SAD.

So. I tend to think of him as having darker hair/skin/etc.


So Anders was kinda like Rainbow Brite, bringin' color back into the world (albeit temporarily)!

#19547
Sylph_14

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Amondra wrote...

 Image IPB

To help break up the Twilight...Also I don't think Anders likes Twlight on his thread....


I can't help it. Everytime I see him all glowy like that, I think it looks a bit like Justice is leaking out his nose :?

#19548
JesterPsychotica

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#19549
Purposeof-Flight

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JesterPsychotica wrote...


Awww.
-passes away from cuteness-

#19550
Aynslie

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I put Karl in his 30s. Older than Anders but not like could be his father older.