shiba5 wrote...
Dasha Dreyson wrote...
Seriously, where is the option to just punch her in the face (for her safety by getting her out and saving her life, yeah).
Oh, of course... to save her. :innocent:
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
See, that's sort of what I like about this game. It really lives up to what the Devs said about the Dragon Age verse being a low fantasy place. Sh!t happens in this world. All that really matters in the end is how you choose to deal with that.Dunizel wrote...
shiba5 wrote...
Well, due to the limitations of the game, yes. If I had been given the choice to say, knowingly help Anders take out the Chantry, I would have done it. I was hoping I could drag Elthina out of Kirkwall well before the Justice quest came about. I kinda felt like the game was one big joke on me at the end. It wasn't about me being the hero at all. It was about me dragging Anders around until he changed the world. The devs programmed Hawke to be ineffectual when it came to the Chantry.
Eh, I felt the same way. Up until the Qunari maybe, I felt I was deciding something, not so much about the Circle or the Templars/Chantry.
By the end of the game I realized Anders was the protagonist and the hero. (writing this V for Vendetta came to my mind, and his presentation in the first chapter...the villain and the hero at the same time, much like Anders)
I was just there watching the story unfold. It doesn't really change much who yu side with since anyway you disappear.
Hawke is just an average joe, who just happens to be in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time, and gets swept along by the tide. You can try to fight it, or you can go with it.
I wouldn't have said Anders was the protagonist really. More like the anti-hero, or, as you said, V from 'V for Vendetta'.
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
Oh, a manifesto justifying the slaughter of church goers? Can't wait to read it. Does it start with 'They had it coming!!' ?
-RANT-.
Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 11 avril 2011 - 01:04 .
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
See, that's sort of what I like about this game. It really lives up to what the Devs said about the Dragon Age verse being a low fantasy place. Sh!t happens in this world. All that really matters in the end is how you choose to deal with that.Dunizel wrote...
shiba5 wrote...
Well, due to the limitations of the game, yes. If I had been given the choice to say, knowingly help Anders take out the Chantry, I would have done it. I was hoping I could drag Elthina out of Kirkwall well before the Justice quest came about. I kinda felt like the game was one big joke on me at the end. It wasn't about me being the hero at all. It was about me dragging Anders around until he changed the world. The devs programmed Hawke to be ineffectual when it came to the Chantry.
Eh, I felt the same way. Up until the Qunari maybe, I felt I was deciding something, not so much about the Circle or the Templars/Chantry.
By the end of the game I realized Anders was the protagonist and the hero. (writing this V for Vendetta came to my mind, and his presentation in the first chapter...the villain and the hero at the same time, much like Anders)
I was just there watching the story unfold. It doesn't really change much who yu side with since anyway you disappear.
Hawke is just an average joe, who just happens to be in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time, and gets swept along by the tide. You can try to fight it, or you can go with it.
I wouldn't have said Anders was the protagonist really. More like the anti-hero, or, as you said, V from 'V for Vendetta'.
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
Oh, a manifesto justifying the slaughter of church goers? Can't wait to read it. Does it start with 'They had it coming!!' ?
This is a really silly argument but I have to weigh in because I'm really tired of the misrepresentations I'm seeing.
The mages are NOT enslaved. They are not forced to do labor against their will; they are confined, yes, per Chantry law, but they are allowed to study and develop their talent as long as they abide by chantry rules and prove themselves through a harrowing.
Yes, the Kirkwall mages are being unfairly abused; that is a problem with local management; blowing up the chantry and starting a war accomplishes what exactly? Mages are free. Ok, so what happens when mages are free to do as they please? Hello Tevinter Imperium and slavery of non mages.
One point so many people seem to be forgetting while donning their Che tshirts and putting templars up against the wall is that Mages are in circles for a reason. All of Thedas was enslaved under the Tevinter Imperium; blood of thousands on the hands of mages for blood magic rituals..ringing any bells there?
Left to their own devices, Mages don't seem to like to live and let live. Remember Uldred? He wiped out dozens when he was just locked up in a tower. Think of the damage he could have done in Denerim. People don't want mages free...not because Mages are bad people and need to be kept down but because they have the POTENTIAL to go very bad and kill or ENSLAVE thousands, or hundreds of thousands.
Anders may just want to live and play lightning vibrator tag at the local brothel, but lots of his brethern want a return of the Tevinter Imperium..and that's why they are quarantined. They are dangerous through no fault of their own. So please, stop the self righteous twaddle; stop the 'divine mother had it coming because she wouldn't free the mages'.
Anders' action in blowing up the Chantry was both out of character and an act of lunacy. His end game was to start a war..ok, could have been accomplished without the death of innocent people. A Grey Warden and a soldier would have found another way. But that aside, he is starting a conflict that has no good ending. Thedas is not clamoring for mages to be free because they don't want to go back to the Tevinter days; Mages who have been freeing themselves have a bad habit of turning to blood magic and doing bad things..so what happens when you take the muzzle off of all them? Screw everybody else?
Fact is, you don't know what they'll do. You're all caught up in your 'stick it to the establishment' bullcr*p'. Haven't heard much about the blood mages and what they did when they got free. Didn't see them freeing anybody; didn't see them doing much except murdering people. But I guess that's ok..it isn't murder if a mage does it cuz they're like oppressed and stuff. So how much blood should be shed? What are the mages owed? Should they have their own country? Maybe a few thousand slaves?
And what about the elves? The elves only ever wanted their land back; they didn't enslave anyone; didn't have an empire based on blood magic and slaughtering their fellow man..I have more compassion for the elves and would rather see them free than the spoiled little babies in their stupid circle towers.
So save your thoughts on justifying murder. I've laughed enough today.
I haven't forgotten that. When I consider the implications seriously, I have to sit back and realise real **** is going to break loose.
But right now I'm being silly, and having fun with it.
Also, I'm still fond of Anders.
Also, at the end of the day, we remember this: IT'S A ****ING GAME PEOPLE.
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
-rant snip-
shiba5 wrote...
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
See, that's sort of what I like about this game. It really lives up to what the Devs said about the Dragon Age verse being a low fantasy place. Sh!t happens in this world. All that really matters in the end is how you choose to deal with that.Dunizel wrote...
shiba5 wrote...
Well, due to the limitations of the game, yes. If I had been given the choice to say, knowingly help Anders take out the Chantry, I would have done it. I was hoping I could drag Elthina out of Kirkwall well before the Justice quest came about. I kinda felt like the game was one big joke on me at the end. It wasn't about me being the hero at all. It was about me dragging Anders around until he changed the world. The devs programmed Hawke to be ineffectual when it came to the Chantry.
Eh, I felt the same way. Up until the Qunari maybe, I felt I was deciding something, not so much about the Circle or the Templars/Chantry.
By the end of the game I realized Anders was the protagonist and the hero. (writing this V for Vendetta came to my mind, and his presentation in the first chapter...the villain and the hero at the same time, much like Anders)
I was just there watching the story unfold. It doesn't really change much who yu side with since anyway you disappear.
Hawke is just an average joe, who just happens to be in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time, and gets swept along by the tide. You can try to fight it, or you can go with it.
I wouldn't have said Anders was the protagonist really. More like the anti-hero, or, as you said, V from 'V for Vendetta'.
Oh, I loved it. In fact, I laughed my **** off for a good 10 minutes after the credits rolled because I knew so many people just weren't going to get it. "OMG I'M SUPPOSED TO BE THE HERO!"
My friend was so incensed by Anders blowing up the Chantry that he scrapped his character right then and started a new game determined not to help him - and thus change history.
I did tell him that the outcome was fixed, but I admit I thought about letting him find out for himself just so I could watch him rage all over again. Nerd rage is funny.
shiba5 wrote...
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
See, that's sort of what I like about this game. It really lives up to what the Devs said about the Dragon Age verse being a low fantasy place. Sh!t happens in this world. All that really matters in the end is how you choose to deal with that.Dunizel wrote...
shiba5 wrote...
-snip-
-snip-
Hawke is just an average joe, who just happens to be in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time, and gets swept along by the tide. You can try to fight it, or you can go with it.
I wouldn't have said Anders was the protagonist really. More like the anti-hero, or, as you said, V from 'V for Vendetta'.
Oh, I loved it. In fact, I laughed my **** off for a good 10 minutes after the credits rolled because I knew so many people just weren't going to get it. "OMG I'M SUPPOSED TO BE THE HERO!"
My friend was so incensed by Anders blowing up the Chantry that he scrapped his character right then and started a new game determined not to help him - and thus change history.
I did tell him that the outcome was fixed, but I admit I thought about letting him find out for himself just so I could watch him rage all over again. Nerd rage is funny.
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
-rant snip-
Okay, I don't hate Elthina because I want all mages to be free.
I don't want all mages to be free...that's the last thing that Thedas needs. What they need is closer watch over the templars and the activities they do...the crimes they commit that turn people to blood magic.
The Circle is there for a reason, this I understand. But Elthina did nothing. She did nothing for the templars, she did nothing for the mages. She just sat and watched as chaos unfolded around her. Meredith stepped out of line, end of story. It doesn't matter if mages are vicious snarling wolves and templars are wee innocent bunny rabbits. SHE STEPPED OUT OF LINE.
Anders' actions were ****ing stupid, no one denies that. But maybe if the templars actually did their job correctly, instead of terrorizing the mages, things could've gone better.
NO ONE came out of that situation looking good.
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
-rant snip-
Okay, I don't hate Elthina because I want all mages to be free.
I don't want all mages to be free...that's the last thing that Thedas needs. What they need is closer watch over the templars and the activities they do...the crimes they commit that turn people to blood magic.
The Circle is there for a reason, this I understand. But Elthina did nothing. She did nothing for the templars, she did nothing for the mages. She just sat and watched as chaos unfolded around her. Meredith stepped out of line, end of story. It doesn't matter if mages are vicious snarling wolves and templars are wee innocent bunny rabbits. SHE STEPPED OUT OF LINE.
Anders' actions were ****ing stupid, no one denies that. But maybe if the templars actually did their job correctly, instead of terrorizing the mages, things could've gone better.
NO ONE came out of that situation looking good.
People should pay more attention to the Loyalists.
Screw the Templar vs. Mage World-War, there's going to be a massive world-wide civil war between the various mage-factions!
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
shiba5 wrote...
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
Oh, a manifesto justifying the slaughter of church goers? Can't wait to read it. Does it start with 'They had it coming!!' ?
This is a really silly argument but I have to weigh in because I'm really tired of the misrepresentations I'm seeing.
The mages are NOT enslaved. They are not forced to do labor against their will; they are confined, yes, per Chantry law, but they are allowed to study and develop their talent as long as they abide by chantry rules and prove themselves through a harrowing.
Yes, the Kirkwall mages are being unfairly abused; that is a problem with local management; blowing up the chantry and starting a war accomplishes what exactly? Mages are free. Ok, so what happens when mages are free to do as they please? Hello Tevinter Imperium and slavery of non mages.
One point so many people seem to be forgetting while donning their Che tshirts and putting templars up against the wall is that Mages are in circles for a reason. All of Thedas was enslaved under the Tevinter Imperium; blood of thousands on the hands of mages for blood magic rituals..ringing any bells there?
Left to their own devices, Mages don't seem to like to live and let live. Remember Uldred? He wiped out dozens when he was just locked up in a tower. Think of the damage he could have done in Denerim. People don't want mages free...not because Mages are bad people and need to be kept down but because they have the POTENTIAL to go very bad and kill or ENSLAVE thousands, or hundreds of thousands.
Anders may just want to live and play lightning vibrator tag at the local brothel, but lots of his brethern want a return of the Tevinter Imperium..and that's why they are quarantined. They are dangerous through no fault of their own. So please, stop the self righteous twaddle; stop the 'divine mother had it coming because she wouldn't free the mages'.
Anders' action in blowing up the Chantry was both out of character and an act of lunacy. His end game was to start a war..ok, could have been accomplished without the death of innocent people. A Grey Warden and a soldier would have found another way. But that aside, he is starting a conflict that has no good ending. Thedas is not clamoring for mages to be free because they don't want to go back to the Tevinter days; Mages who have been freeing themselves have a bad habit of turning to blood magic and doing bad things..so what happens when you take the muzzle off of all them? Screw everybody else?
Fact is, you don't know what they'll do. You're all caught up in your 'stick it to the establishment' bullcr*p'. Haven't heard much about the blood mages and what they did when they got free. Didn't see them freeing anybody; didn't see them doing much except murdering people. But I guess that's ok..it isn't murder if a mage does it cuz they're like oppressed and stuff. So how much blood should be shed? What are the mages owed? Should they have their own country? Maybe a few thousand slaves?
And what about the elves? The elves only ever wanted their land back; they didn't enslave anyone; didn't have an empire based on blood magic and slaughtering their fellow man..I have more compassion for the elves and would rather see them free than the spoiled little babies in their stupid circle towers.
So save your thoughts on justifying murder. I've laughed enough today.
I haven't forgotten that. When I consider the implications seriously, I have to sit back and realise real **** is going to break loose.
But right now I'm being silly, and having fun with it.
Also, I'm still fond of Anders.
Also, at the end of the day, we remember this: IT'S A ****ING GAME PEOPLE.
Seriously, some pixels asploded. I think the people in this thread have more perspective.
Miri1984 wrote...
....
As Isabela said, it's not about mages being dangerous, it's about choices being made for them. Anders makes a choice for everyone else, so he's the bad person (and he admits that he is) but he wants change and it's the only way to force it.
There are a lot of good arguments why what Anders did was justified. No one ever claims that it's GOOD and HAPPY and FLOWERS, but it can certainly be seen as justified.
.
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
Yes you did.
And I don't know. LMFAO only reason I read it is because it was mentioned in livestream.
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
Yes you did.
And I don't know. LMFAO only reason I read it is because it was mentioned in livestream.
Modifié par AquilaChrysaetos86, 11 avril 2011 - 01:18 .
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
Miri1984 wrote...
....
As Isabela said, it's not about mages being dangerous, it's about choices being made for them. Anders makes a choice for everyone else, so he's the bad person (and he admits that he is) but he wants change and it's the only way to force it.
There are a lot of good arguments why what Anders did was justified. No one ever claims that it's GOOD and HAPPY and FLOWERS, but it can certainly be seen as justified.
I don't think in Origins they actually showed us any great amount of mage-oppression.
And then in DA2 they suddenly reveal this world of torment and horror.
Also, magic incidents appear to be getting frequent around the time the Chantry gets blown to smithereens. Before that, there was the shortest Blight in history, Morrigan disapears, Flemeth is being cryptic (even more so than usual) and the Warden vanishes after finding some mysterious tome of Morrigans.
Coincidence?
Meh.
From my point of view, Thedas just went to the Void in a handbasket.
From my Hawke's point of view, all she wants to do is desperately hold onto what she has.
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
Kawamura wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
Yes you did.
And I don't know. LMFAO only reason I read it is because it was mentioned in livestream.
.____________.
I don't even own a Che t-shirt. I do have a copy of motorcycle diaries (the DVD and the book), though. But when I watch the movie, the point when he says something like "the only way a revolution works is with violence" or something I feel bad.
Was that the bad thing? Am I getting yelled at for that?
leggywillow wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
It's because we love Anders. They oppress us for it and lock us in towers.
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
Oh, a manifesto justifying the slaughter of church goers? Can't wait to read it. Does it start with 'They had it coming!!' ?
This is a really silly argument but I have to weigh in because I'm really tired of the misrepresentations I'm seeing.
The mages are NOT enslaved. They are not forced to do labor against their will; they are confined, yes, per Chantry law, but they are allowed to study and develop their talent as long as they abide by chantry rules and prove themselves through a harrowing.
Yes, the Kirkwall mages are being unfairly abused; that is a problem with local management; blowing up the chantry and starting a war accomplishes what exactly? Mages are free. Ok, so what happens when mages are free to do as they please? Hello Tevinter Imperium and slavery of non mages.
One point so many people seem to be forgetting while donning their Che tshirts and putting templars up against the wall is that Mages are in circles for a reason. All of Thedas was enslaved under the Tevinter Imperium; blood of thousands on the hands of mages for blood magic rituals..ringing any bells there?
Left to their own devices, Mages don't seem to like to live and let live. Remember Uldred? He wiped out dozens when he was just locked up in a tower. Think of the damage he could have done in Denerim. People don't want mages free...not because Mages are bad people and need to be kept down but because they have the POTENTIAL to go very bad and kill or ENSLAVE thousands, or hundreds of thousands.
Anders may just want to live and play lightning vibrator tag at the local brothel, but lots of his brethern want a return of the Tevinter Imperium..and that's why they are quarantined. They are dangerous through no fault of their own. So please, stop the self righteous twaddle; stop the 'divine mother had it coming because she wouldn't free the mages'.
Anders' action in blowing up the Chantry was both out of character and an act of lunacy. His end game was to start a war..ok, could have been accomplished without the death of innocent people. A Grey Warden and a soldier would have found another way. But that aside, he is starting a conflict that has no good ending. Thedas is not clamoring for mages to be free because they don't want to go back to the Tevinter days; Mages who have been freeing themselves have a bad habit of turning to blood magic and doing bad things..so what happens when you take the muzzle off of all them? Screw everybody else?
Fact is, you don't know what they'll do. You're all caught up in your 'stick it to the establishment' bullcr*p'. Haven't heard much about the blood mages and what they did when they got free. Didn't see them freeing anybody; didn't see them doing much except murdering people. But I guess that's ok..it isn't murder if a mage does it cuz they're like oppressed and stuff. So how much blood should be shed? What are the mages owed? Should they have their own country? Maybe a few thousand slaves?
And what about the elves? The elves only ever wanted their land back; they didn't enslave anyone; didn't have an empire based on blood magic and slaughtering their fellow man..I have more compassion for the elves and would rather see them free than the spoiled little babies in their stupid circle towers.
So save your thoughts on justifying murder. I've laughed enough today.
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