Amondra wrote...
leggywillow wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
It's because we love Anders. They oppress us for it and lock us in towers.
Does that mean we need to worry about Templar's now too?
Modifié par AquilaChrysaetos86, 11 avril 2011 - 01:22 .
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
Yes you did.
And I don't know. LMFAO only reason I read it is because it was mentioned in livestream.
Please say Meredanders will come to the rescue!
Some people just have really loud voices. IDK.
Edited to add:
@Kawamura: You own the Motorcycle Diaries? I love you more!
I don't own a Che shirt. Mainly because he would have hated it.
leggywillow wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
It's because we love Anders. They oppress us for it and lock us in towers.
Modifié par SurelyForth, 11 avril 2011 - 01:22 .
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
-rant snip-
Okay, I don't hate Elthina because I want all mages to be free.
I don't want all mages to be free...that's the last thing that Thedas needs. What they need is closer watch over the templars and the activities they do...the crimes they commit that turn people to blood magic.
The Circle is there for a reason, this I understand. But Elthina did nothing. She did nothing for the templars, she did nothing for the mages. She just sat and watched as chaos unfolded around her. Meredith stepped out of line, end of story. It doesn't matter if mages are vicious snarling wolves and templars are wee innocent bunny rabbits. SHE STEPPED OUT OF LINE.
Anders' actions were ****ing stupid, no one denies that. But maybe if the templars actually did their job correctly, instead of terrorizing the mages, things could've gone better.
NO ONE came out of that situation looking good.
People should pay more attention to the Loyalists.
Screw the Templar vs. Mage World-War, there's going to be a massive world-wide civil war between the various mage-factions!
And then there are the templars that turned against the Chantry once it fell.
Templars, who perhaps were sick of constantly craving lyrium and being hated by people they had very neutral opinions about.
I can't wait to see what Anders has done to Thedas. What HAWKE has done.
I just hope this doesn't mean tons of blood mages running the streets. I want to see mages who remain firm to their training and don't let freedom get to their head. Maybe if they play their cards right, they'll get legal freedom.
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
Oh, a manifesto justifying the slaughter of church goers? Can't wait to read it. Does it start with 'They had it coming!!' ?
This is a really silly argument but I have to weigh in because I'm really tired of the misrepresentations I'm seeing.
The mages are NOT enslaved. They are not forced to do labor against their will; they are confined, yes, per Chantry law, but they are allowed to study and develop their talent as long as they abide by chantry rules and prove themselves through a harrowing.
Yes, the Kirkwall mages are being unfairly abused; that is a problem with local management; blowing up the chantry and starting a war accomplishes what exactly? Mages are free. Ok, so what happens when mages are free to do as they please? Hello Tevinter Imperium and slavery of non mages.
One point so many people seem to be forgetting while donning their Che tshirts and putting templars up against the wall is that Mages are in circles for a reason. All of Thedas was enslaved under the Tevinter Imperium; blood of thousands on the hands of mages for blood magic rituals..ringing any bells there?
Left to their own devices, Mages don't seem to like to live and let live. Remember Uldred? He wiped out dozens when he was just locked up in a tower. Think of the damage he could have done in Denerim. People don't want mages free...not because Mages are bad people and need to be kept down but because they have the POTENTIAL to go very bad and kill or ENSLAVE thousands, or hundreds of thousands.
Anders may just want to live and play lightning vibrator tag at the local brothel, but lots of his brethern want a return of the Tevinter Imperium..and that's why they are quarantined. They are dangerous through no fault of their own. So please, stop the self righteous twaddle; stop the 'divine mother had it coming because she wouldn't free the mages'.
Anders' action in blowing up the Chantry was both out of character and an act of lunacy. His end game was to start a war..ok, could have been accomplished without the death of innocent people. A Grey Warden and a soldier would have found another way. But that aside, he is starting a conflict that has no good ending. Thedas is not clamoring for mages to be free because they don't want to go back to the Tevinter days; Mages who have been freeing themselves have a bad habit of turning to blood magic and doing bad things..so what happens when you take the muzzle off of all them? Screw everybody else?
Fact is, you don't know what they'll do. You're all caught up in your 'stick it to the establishment' bullcr*p'. Haven't heard much about the blood mages and what they did when they got free. Didn't see them freeing anybody; didn't see them doing much except murdering people. But I guess that's ok..it isn't murder if a mage does it cuz they're like oppressed and stuff. So how much blood should be shed? What are the mages owed? Should they have their own country? Maybe a few thousand slaves?
And what about the elves? The elves only ever wanted their land back; they didn't enslave anyone; didn't have an empire based on blood magic and slaughtering their fellow man..I have more compassion for the elves and would rather see them free than the spoiled little babies in their stupid circle towers.
So save your thoughts on justifying murder. I've laughed enough today.
Batteries wrote...
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
Oh, a manifesto justifying the slaughter of church goers? Can't wait to read it. Does it start with 'They had it coming!!' ?
This is a really silly argument but I have to weigh in because I'm really tired of the misrepresentations I'm seeing.
The mages are NOT enslaved. They are not forced to do labor against their will; they are confined, yes, per Chantry law, but they are allowed to study and develop their talent as long as they abide by chantry rules and prove themselves through a harrowing.
Yes, the Kirkwall mages are being unfairly abused; that is a problem with local management; blowing up the chantry and starting a war accomplishes what exactly? Mages are free. Ok, so what happens when mages are free to do as they please? Hello Tevinter Imperium and slavery of non mages.
One point so many people seem to be forgetting while donning their Che tshirts and putting templars up against the wall is that Mages are in circles for a reason. All of Thedas was enslaved under the Tevinter Imperium; blood of thousands on the hands of mages for blood magic rituals..ringing any bells there?
Left to their own devices, Mages don't seem to like to live and let live. Remember Uldred? He wiped out dozens when he was just locked up in a tower. Think of the damage he could have done in Denerim. People don't want mages free...not because Mages are bad people and need to be kept down but because they have the POTENTIAL to go very bad and kill or ENSLAVE thousands, or hundreds of thousands.
Anders may just want to live and play lightning vibrator tag at the local brothel, but lots of his brethern want a return of the Tevinter Imperium..and that's why they are quarantined. They are dangerous through no fault of their own. So please, stop the self righteous twaddle; stop the 'divine mother had it coming because she wouldn't free the mages'.
Anders' action in blowing up the Chantry was both out of character and an act of lunacy. His end game was to start a war..ok, could have been accomplished without the death of innocent people. A Grey Warden and a soldier would have found another way. But that aside, he is starting a conflict that has no good ending. Thedas is not clamoring for mages to be free because they don't want to go back to the Tevinter days; Mages who have been freeing themselves have a bad habit of turning to blood magic and doing bad things..so what happens when you take the muzzle off of all them? Screw everybody else?
Fact is, you don't know what they'll do. You're all caught up in your 'stick it to the establishment' bullcr*p'. Haven't heard much about the blood mages and what they did when they got free. Didn't see them freeing anybody; didn't see them doing much except murdering people. But I guess that's ok..it isn't murder if a mage does it cuz they're like oppressed and stuff. So how much blood should be shed? What are the mages owed? Should they have their own country? Maybe a few thousand slaves?
And what about the elves? The elves only ever wanted their land back; they didn't enslave anyone; didn't have an empire based on blood magic and slaughtering their fellow man..I have more compassion for the elves and would rather see them free than the spoiled little babies in their stupid circle towers.
So save your thoughts on justifying murder. I've laughed enough today.
lol.
u mad?
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
Yes you did.
And I don't know. LMFAO only reason I read it is because it was mentioned in livestream.
.____________.
I don't even own a Che t-shirt. I do have a copy of motorcycle diaries (the DVD and the book), though. But when I watch the movie, the point when he says something like "the only way a revolution works is with violence" or something I feel bad.
Was that the bad thing? Am I getting yelled at for that?
Well, according to this guy the bad thing ALL of us did was liking Anders.
And disliking Elthina.
Though I do think he was also pissed that some of us were "justifying" Anders' actions.
....Though it may be a female.
As a fellow female, I'd say that we are quite capable of throwing tantrums like this over a game. <_<
Halinu wrote...
As for mages and freedom... It's all so dodgy. Myself and my canon characters tend to be pro-mage (mostly being mages themselves) but I understand why the Chantry and Templars exist. Mages ARE NOT slaves. They are contained because without proper training, they can be a danger to themselves and others. I imagine it woud be scary being a mage and a lightning rod to all that is terrible and evil in the world, generally distrusted and mistreated by family and everyone you meet because of something you cannot help.
There are better ways to deal with it, though. *shrug* My thoughts were always ... instead of confining mages to the Circle FOREVER OMGZ, have it be a mandatory schooling period. When a child is born with magical talent, they have to be added to a mage registry. (Similar to Animagi in the HP world.) This gives the Chantry knowledge of the mage population and puts a name to a mage, making them responsible for their actions. They must be sent to the Circle (think boarding school) til they are 18-20, or pass a Harrowing, or get some sort of Mage License or something... Have check-ins and expiry dates on Mage Licenses. It COULD work. *shrug*
signcherie wrote...
Heh, I don't get the impression that the Ferelden Circle was sunshine and daisies. Especially after reading the Dragon Age comics. But yeah, Kirkwall is clearly worse.
I would have been fine with trying to reform the current system. Except, you know, no one was willing to compromise. After running around all game trying to be diplomatic, I was ready to bring the fight to the Templars.
Maybe now that things are falling apart, they'll be willing to change the system.
signcherie wrote...
Heh, I don't get the impression that the Ferelden Circle was sunshine and daisies. Especially after reading the Dragon Age comics. But yeah, Kirkwall is clearly worse.
I would have been fine with trying to reform the current system. Except, you know, no one was willing to compromise. After running around all game trying to be diplomatic, I was ready to bring the fight to the Templars.
Maybe now that things are falling apart, they'll be willing to change the system.
Kawamura wrote...
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
Yes you did.
And I don't know. LMFAO only reason I read it is because it was mentioned in livestream.
Please say Meredanders will come to the rescue!
Some people just have really loud voices. IDK.
Edited to add:
@Kawamura: You own the Motorcycle Diaries? I love you more!
I don't own a Che shirt. Mainly because he would have hated it.
Oh, I'd buy a che t-shirt because of it. I'm not a big fan of Che. >.> I find him interesting and all, but whenever a person that wants to be a doctor drops doctoring and goes and kill people I get UPSET. THERE CAN BE NO COMPR--
Oh. Damn.
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
Amondra wrote...
leggywillow wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
It's because we love Anders. They oppress us for it and lock us in towers.
Does that mean we need to worry about Templar's now too?
You only need to worry about Cullen. Hurr
Edited for top:
I seriously need to upload some different pictures.
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
Oh, a manifesto justifying the slaughter of church goers? Can't wait to read it. Does it start with 'They had it coming!!' ?
This is a really silly argument but I have to weigh in because I'm really tired of the misrepresentations I'm seeing.
The mages are NOT enslaved. They are not forced to do labor against their will; they are confined, yes, per Chantry law, but they are allowed to study and develop their talent as long as they abide by chantry rules and prove themselves through a harrowing.
Yes, the Kirkwall mages are being unfairly abused; that is a problem with local management; blowing up the chantry and starting a war accomplishes what exactly? Mages are free. Ok, so what happens when mages are free to do as they please? Hello Tevinter Imperium and slavery of non mages.
One point so many people seem to be forgetting while donning their Che tshirts and putting templars up against the wall is that Mages are in circles for a reason. All of Thedas was enslaved under the Tevinter Imperium; blood of thousands on the hands of mages for blood magic rituals..ringing any bells there?
Left to their own devices, Mages don't seem to like to live and let live. Remember Uldred? He wiped out dozens when he was just locked up in a tower. Think of the damage he could have done in Denerim. People don't want mages free...not because Mages are bad people and need to be kept down but because they have the POTENTIAL to go very bad and kill or ENSLAVE thousands, or hundreds of thousands.
Anders may just want to live and play lightning vibrator tag at the local brothel, but lots of his brethern want a return of the Tevinter Imperium..and that's why they are quarantined. They are dangerous through no fault of their own. So please, stop the self righteous twaddle; stop the 'divine mother had it coming because she wouldn't free the mages'.
Anders' action in blowing up the Chantry was both out of character and an act of lunacy. His end game was to start a war..ok, could have been accomplished without the death of innocent people. A Grey Warden and a soldier would have found another way. But that aside, he is starting a conflict that has no good ending. Thedas is not clamoring for mages to be free because they don't want to go back to the Tevinter days; Mages who have been freeing themselves have a bad habit of turning to blood magic and doing bad things..so what happens when you take the muzzle off of all them? Screw everybody else?
Fact is, you don't know what they'll do. You're all caught up in your 'stick it to the establishment' bullcr*p'. Haven't heard much about the blood mages and what they did when they got free. Didn't see them freeing anybody; didn't see them doing much except murdering people. But I guess that's ok..it isn't murder if a mage does it cuz they're like oppressed and stuff. So how much blood should be shed? What are the mages owed? Should they have their own country? Maybe a few thousand slaves?
And what about the elves? The elves only ever wanted their land back; they didn't enslave anyone; didn't have an empire based on blood magic and slaughtering their fellow man..I have more compassion for the elves and would rather see them free than the spoiled little babies in their stupid circle towers.
So save your thoughts on justifying murder. I've laughed enough today.
Nerana wrote...
What. It's 2am and I SWEAR that speck of staff magic is Justice!
>.> *tabs back into DA*
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
Yes, the Kirkwall mages are being unfairly abused; that is a problem with local management; blowing up the chantry and starting a war accomplishes what exactly? Mages are free. Ok, so what happens when mages are free to do as they please? Hello Tevinter Imperium and slavery of non mages.
One point so many people seem to be forgetting while donning their Che tshirts and putting templars up against the wall is that Mages are in circles for a reason. All of Thedas was enslaved under the Tevinter Imperium; blood of thousands on the hands of mages for blood magic rituals..ringing any bells there?
Left to their own devices, Mages don't seem to like to live and let live. Remember Uldred? He wiped out dozens when he was just locked up in a tower. Think of the damage he could have done in Denerim. People don't want mages free...not because Mages are bad people and need to be kept down but because they have the POTENTIAL to go very bad and kill or ENSLAVE thousands, or hundreds of thousands.
So save your thoughts on justifying murder. I've laughed enough today.
Modifié par cleosilver, 11 avril 2011 - 01:37 .
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
Yes you did.
And I don't know. LMFAO only reason I read it is because it was mentioned in livestream.
Please say Meredanders will come to the rescue!
Some people just have really loud voices. IDK.
Edited to add:
@Kawamura: You own the Motorcycle Diaries? I love you more!
I don't own a Che shirt. Mainly because he would have hated it.
Oh, I'd buy a che t-shirt because of it. I'm not a big fan of Che. >.> I find him interesting and all, but whenever a person that wants to be a doctor drops doctoring and goes and kill people I get UPSET. THERE CAN BE NO COMPR--
Oh. Damn.
Ah, see I'm a raging leftie/hippie. I don't like the system or the man. That said, I can separate real life from video games, and am not going to blow up any churches any time soon. Seems that some people can't though, and this is what makes me really sad.
I tend to disagree. We knew, even before DA2, that there were sopruses going on. In Kirkwall it is just more evident. Templars did abuse of their powers too, the "occasional beating and rapes" happened, not to mention the number of Tranquils increased. Sure, some mages might have liked the life in the Circle normally, but not everyone does. Being hunted from young age, being dragged away from your family forever...and live in those conditions, seems to me a poor way to avoid conflict. Something has to be done to check their magic, sure, but not that.dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
The mages are NOT enslaved. They are not forced to do labor against their will; they are confined, yes, per Chantry law, but they are allowed to study and develop their talent as long as they abide by chantry rules and prove themselves through a harrowing.
No one said she should have fred the mages. I just hoped she could do something, anything, if she really cared to keep peace. She could have, at the very least, do something with Petrice. Years watching Meredith go mad for the idol, Years saying nothing but clearly seeing the corruption going on in the whole city.So please, stop the self righteous twaddle; stop the 'divine mother had it coming because she wouldn't free the mages'.
I have compassion for the elves too ofc, this has nothing to do with the mages/templar debate.And what about the elves? The elves only ever wanted their land back; they didn't enslave anyone; didn't have an empire based on blood magic and slaughtering their fellow man..I have more compassion for the elves and would rather see them free than the spoiled little babies in their stupid circle towers.
Modifié par Dunizel, 11 avril 2011 - 01:40 .
RinjiRenee wrote...
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
-ranty snip-thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
*facepalm* Oh boy.
Your argument is as extreme as the "Elthina had it coming" argument, just on the other side of the spectrum.
Go ahead and villainize the mages as you see fit. However, you must accept that Thedas is a horrible place full of horrible people, and surprise, many of them are not mages. There are perfectly nice mages who deserve a lot more respect than what has been given to them, but the world sucks.
You also have to accept that people have the freedom to choose what they believe in a place of grey morality, just as I completely support your ability to make arguments of absolution. So laugh on, I guess.
tl;dr -- U MAD?
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
RinjiRenee wrote...
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
-ranty snip-thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
*facepalm* Oh boy.
Your argument is as extreme as the "Elthina had it coming" argument, just on the other side of the spectrum.
Go ahead and villainize the mages as you see fit. However, you must accept that Thedas is a horrible place full of horrible people, and surprise, many of them are not mages. There are perfectly nice mages who deserve a lot more respect than what has been given to them, but the world sucks.
You also have to accept that people have the freedom to choose what they believe in a place of grey morality, just as I completely support your ability to make arguments of absolution. So laugh on, I guess.
tl;dr -- U MAD?
See I kinda think Elthina did have it coming as she is warned so many times that people are trying to kill her, but she seems to think she's untouchable because of her position.
Does that mean that she deserves what happens to her in the end? Probably not.
If I'm not mistaken, she was only warned twice - or if you don't have the Seb DLC, just once, by Hawke.AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
RinjiRenee wrote...
dreadpiratesnugglecakes wrote...
-ranty snip-thebrute7 wrote...
I have finally come to the conclusion that Ander's destruction of the Chantry was not in fact terrorism... I'll have to write out my rationale for you guys later so you can understand my thoughts on it.
Plus I hate Elthina...
*facepalm* Oh boy.
Your argument is as extreme as the "Elthina had it coming" argument, just on the other side of the spectrum.
Go ahead and villainize the mages as you see fit. However, you must accept that Thedas is a horrible place full of horrible people, and surprise, many of them are not mages. There are perfectly nice mages who deserve a lot more respect than what has been given to them, but the world sucks.
You also have to accept that people have the freedom to choose what they believe in a place of grey morality, just as I completely support your ability to make arguments of absolution. So laugh on, I guess.
tl;dr -- U MAD?
See I kinda think Elthina did have it coming as she is warned so many times that people are trying to kill her, but she seems to think she's untouchable because of her position.
Does that mean that she deserves what happens to her in the end? Probably not.
Kawamura wrote...
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
AquilaChrysaetos86 wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Kawamura wrote...
D:
W-why did we get yelled at? I didn't even do anything bad today.
Yes you did.
And I don't know. LMFAO only reason I read it is because it was mentioned in livestream.
Please say Meredanders will come to the rescue!
Some people just have really loud voices. IDK.
Edited to add:
@Kawamura: You own the Motorcycle Diaries? I love you more!
I don't own a Che shirt. Mainly because he would have hated it.
Oh, I'd buy a che t-shirt because of it. I'm not a big fan of Che. >.> I find him interesting and all, but whenever a person that wants to be a doctor drops doctoring and goes and kill people I get UPSET. THERE CAN BE NO COMPR--
Oh. Damn.
Ah, see I'm a raging leftie/hippie. I don't like the system or the man. That said, I can separate real life from video games, and am not going to blow up any churches any time soon. Seems that some people can't though, and this is what makes me really sad.
Oh, I'm a big leftie, too. But I'm a fan of civil disobedience. At the end of the day, I believe resorting to violence means you've lost in some way.
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