57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Aeowyn]

tallon1982 wrote...

I'd loved to go into the Fade and smack Justice around...Knock some sense into him literally.

Me too. I liked Justice in DAA but now I just hate him lol

[cmessaz]

LOL @ that pic. I need to do that this run...though kicked puppy Anders might make me cry.

[Eydris Ivo]

Aeowyn wrote...

tallon1982 wrote...

I'd loved to go into the Fade and smack Justice around...Knock some sense into him literally.

Me too. I liked Justice in DAA but now I just hate him lol

Do you negotiate with the demon to get this?

[Celestria129]

silver-crescent wrote...

Celestria129 wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

OK so I know what Anders does and I can live with it but I just have to ask something. At the end of the game does he stay "sane" more or less or does he lose himself completely?

I'm asking because him going insane at the end (and I mean truly insane, not "i-hate-the-templars-so-much-i'm-gonna-blow-up-the-chantry" insane) would be WAY too depressing and if that's the case I dunno if I could manage to follow with the romance :|

I think after the "Big Bang" event that Anders will slowly start to regain control of himself and Justice because Justice did what he set out to do so i think, and hope, that he won't be as "Die Tempalars Die" as he was before and he will start to fade into the background, at least for a little while.......

I suppose that would make sense. But does the game give any indication either way?

I got this from the way he talks in the end game dialgue , he seems more....i don't know.....whole

[cmessaz]

Before I roll a mean Hawke...what exactly does she say to Anders in the love scene anyone know? I R scared...

[Nivilant]

catabuca wrote...



Yeah, I don't get that feeling of protection for anyone else either. I find it really interesting that BW will create certain LIs that have such an important role in the central plot of their games, where other LIs don't. It makes those romances all the more powerful. In one way it's possibly to the detriment of the power of the other romances. For example, Fenris' romance is wonderful, very awesome, and so on, but it isn't linked in such an important way to the central plot, and being in a romance with him isn't necessarily going to have a 'pause and think this over for 10 minutes' effect once the Chantry goes boom. Being in a romance with Anders changes everything.

And it's interesting that it's only really him. In DAO you could argue there was a female counterpart in Morrigan, and that players who romanced either would find the end-game actions more weighty than those who romanced Zev or Leli. But in this it's really only Anders. I guess the end of act 2 would be crucial for those in a relationship with Izzy, but since it's not on the mage/templar issue and doesn't have a bearing when it comes to your big end-game decisions, I guess I don't class it in the same league. Really, in DA2 it's ALL about Anders, the whole game.

And, heh, yes, during battles I only ever shouted at the screen if something killed Anders. Like the big spider in the Deep Roads. I was playing on hard and squealing 'let Anders go, you bastard', and having to pause so I could stop laughing at my own ridiculousness

(off-topic, playing on hard was so much fun I was laughing so HARD at the way I kept getting pwned. During the ogre fight in the deep roads, Hawke and Anders died, leaving Carver and Varric to try to kill it. I controlled Varric and by god was it hilarious making him run away -- me screaming with laughter shouting 'RUN VARRIC, RUN!' -- watching his little legs furiously running. We did it though, yes we did. And we killed the dragon, although there was only one of us left standing at the end of that ... Hawke iirc.)

Ironically, it's Leli that's had the most attention out of the Origins LIs, in terms of subsequent appearances. Her role in DA2 was pretty big, even if she wasn't on-screen much.

But yeah, I think the whole protectiveness thing is partly because he is just so unbelievably broken by this point, plus any affection taken over from Awakening. Plus, of course, those gorgeous eyes. Second only to Sebastian's eyes in my books, it's a pity Seb has that stick up his butt.As to the whole Vengeance takeover I really was cursing there not being a 'hug' option. Seriously, the guy needs a hug. Badly.

Justice reminds me a bit of my inner voice to be honest. Very harsh and demanding, but as long as you agree and keep your head down things go swimmingly. Difference with me is I don't go blue and blow things up.

(Off-topic: Yeah, Varric's running animation makes me laugh so hard. Especially at that point where the game speeds them up when they get too far behind. Hilarious.

Best thing about having an archer or mage is getting to hang back with Anders and literally watch him work his magic. Cue epic back-to-back fighting while surrounded by enemies. Well, until Aveline barges through and knocks them all down. I swear if I wasn't so smitten with Anders I'd be pining for Aveline.

That spider is was the first game-spider to invoke my intense arachnaphobia. *shudders*)

[nodice]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Why would she? How about, Kirkwall would have been utterly destroyed by her greed? Like her or not, I would have died to defend her if she had prevented things from going the way they did with the Qunari. I don't hate Isabela. I actually quite like her, but I still think she was completely selfish.

As for Anders, I don't see how him not talking to you about the Chantry plan shows he loves you less. He needed help and he hoped that the person who claims to love him would give him that help. However, he avoids actually telling you what he's going to do because he knows it's a fairly terrible thing (even if he thinks it must be done despite that). I think his line about  not telling Hawke because he was afraid Hawke would actually want to help is the most telling. But then, I happen to think more of him for thinking some things are more important than his personal happiness. I don't think I could have continued the romance had he been willing to give up everything he believed in just for Hawke.  If I was against everything he stands for, why should he want to be with me?

Because rivalry romance is possible?

Isabela was selfish up until she returned the relic to the Qunari. I suppose Hawke could have give Isabela to the Qunari after this, but mine chose not to. In the end I think Isabela was less selfish than Anders. Why would Isabela care if Kirkwall was destroyed if she was selfish? She was about to leave it. But she didn't. Because of Hawke. She just didn't care of much the things others did, like mage-templar issues, politics and stuff. (OT, I have to say it's utterly funny when you try to take Izzy to the Qunari base and she always flees "oh I saw someone I know, gotta go", cracked me up even before I knew why she did it...)

It's a bit different if Bethany is in the circle. Or if Hawke's a mage (although I'm kinda planning on playing with a mage who sides with the templars...). Hawke would probably do anything for little sis.

Your thought about Anders being afraid Hawke would want to help is quite interesting. She does help. She helps to build the bomb. She provides Anders' living (I would assume) and besides, what's worse to hear than "I don't want to worry you with my issues". Well you should if you're dating the person. That's how relationships work. It's obviously quite tense the whole time right before the bombing. I can only imagine Hawke will lay in the bed alone and wonder where Anders is and why.

[Aeowyn]

Rheia1234 wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

tallon1982 wrote...

I'd loved to go into the Fade and smack Justice around...Knock some sense into him literally.

Me too. I liked Justice in DAA but now I just hate him lol

Do you negotiate with the demon to get this?

Yes and no. I never actually agreed to anything before Anders/Justice attacked me. Got 15 rivalry points with Anders for killing him, but I killed the demon afterwards and told Anders it was a ruse when he confronted me, which got me 20 friendship points.

[leggywillow]

@Aeowyn:  Is that the demon talking?  Does the demon really call Justice a prig?  Because that is probably the most hilarious thing in the game if that's the case.

Also, I love your avatar.  From this angle it looks kinda like my Hawke (same hair color/style), so it makes me squee every time I see it. 

[nodice]

Nivilant wrote...
That spider is was the first game-spider to invoke my intense arachnaphobia. *shudders*)

Try playing that part when the MONSTROUS spider corners you and attacks when you can do nothing, in the middle of the night, alone, in the dark, on a 32" TV. 

[Nivilant]

nodice wrote...

Nivilant wrote...
That spider is was the first game-spider to invoke my intense arachnaphobia. *shudders*)

Try playing that part when the MONSTROUS spider corners you and attacks when you can do nothing, in the middle of the night, alone, in the dark, on a 32" TV. 

*whimpers* Oh God why.

Yes, I think my reaction to the monstrous spider was a good solid 'O_____O'

Followed by a steady mantra of 'killkillkillkillkillkill' and then it died and curled up and I was freaking out.

Then I encountered the second monstrous spider in the game and it decided to instantly scuttle towards me and hence towards the camera. I think I very nearly passed out.

[Sarah1281]

Rheia1234 wrote...

I honestly may not tell my love if I was planning something that big, something I knew I might be prosecuted and die for and would do no matter what they said. I wouldn't want that to fall on their shoulders. I would want to protect them from the consequences.

And that's commendable...assuming you don't get them involved anyway but without actually telling them what's really going on so they still play a part in doing it but without the choice or even the knowledge about what's happening.

[Addai]

Rheia1234 wrote...

I honestly may not tell my love if I was planning something that big, something I knew I might be prosecuted and die for and would do no matter what they said. I wouldn't want that to fall on their shoulders. I would want to protect them from the consequences.

If you were trying to protect someone, wouldn't you better do that by leaving them out of it entirely?  Anders implicates Hawke without her knowledge and under false pretenses.  I think that's worse than telling her what he's planning and giving her the chance to support him knowingly or to bail.  It seems to me he just didn't want to take the chance that she'd stop him.

[Aeowyn]

leggywillow wrote...

@Aeowyn:  Is that the demon talking?  Does the demon really call Justice a prig?  Because that is probably the most hilarious thing in the game if that's the case.

Also, I love your avatar.  From this angle it looks kinda like my Hawke (same hair color/style), so it makes me squee every time I see it. 

Lol yup, he calls Justice a prig. I nearly spat out my drink when I saw that hahaha

And thanks

[Rinji the Bearded]

Addai67 wrote...

Rheia1234 wrote...

I honestly may not tell my love if I was planning something that big, something I knew I might be prosecuted and die for and would do no matter what they said. I wouldn't want that to fall on their shoulders. I would want to protect them from the consequences.

If you were trying to protect someone, wouldn't you better do that by leaving them out of it entirely?  Anders implicates Hawke without her knowledge and under false pretenses.  I think that's worse than telling her what he's planning and giving her the chance to support him knowingly or to bail.  It seems to me he just didn't want to take the chance that she'd stop him.

He also says that he did not want any of the blame on Hawke's shoulders.  If any one was going to hang, he wanted it to be him, and not him/her too.  Technically, all those outside of the situation will blame Anders only, never Hawke.  Anders gives him/her the chance to help the cause, but the removes the chance that he/she would get blamed for it.  It's a little weird and messed up, yes, but I can see some reasoning in it.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 18 mars 2011 - 05:29 .

[cmessaz]

Sorry, but I HAVE to post this. Adorable

[nodice]

Nivilant wrote...

*whimpers* Oh God why.

Yes, I think my reaction to the monstrous spider was a good solid 'O_____O'

Followed by a steady mantra of 'killkillkillkillkillkill' and then it died and curled up and I was freaking out.

Then I encountered the second monstrous spider in the game and it decided to instantly scuttle towards me and hence towards the camera. I think I very nearly passed out.

You just close your eyes, take your damager mage and hope it'll die at that point ;D But you can't really do that, and besides you'd still hear the spider sounds...the "hssssssss"... Even the spider corpse freaked me out. And I had problems looting it too, so I had to walk around it what felt like forever...

[Addai]

RinjiRenee wrote...
He also says that he did not want any of the blame on her shoulders.  Technically, all those outside of the situation will blame Anders only, never Hawke.  Anders gives him/her the chance to help the cause, but the removes the chance that he/she would get blamed for it.  It's a little weird and messed up, yes, but I can see some reasoning in it.

He says that, but how realistic is it?  She helped him build the bomb and distract the Grand Cleric while he planted it- just who is going to believe that Hawke didn't do that knowingly, especially if you spare him?  The immediate response to it is to annul the Circle, so regardless of Anders' intentions, he is not the only one who is blamed for his actions.

[silver-crescent]

Celestria129 wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Celestria129 wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

OK so I know what Anders does and I can live with it but I just have to ask something. At the end of the game does he stay "sane" more or less or does he lose himself completely?

I'm asking because him going insane at the end (and I mean truly insane, not "i-hate-the-templars-so-much-i'm-gonna-blow-up-the-chantry" insane) would be WAY too depressing and if that's the case I dunno if I could manage to follow with the romance :|

I think after the "Big Bang" event that Anders will slowly start to regain control of himself and Justice because Justice did what he set out to do so i think, and hope, that he won't be as "Die Tempalars Die" as he was before and he will start to fade into the background, at least for a little while.......

I suppose that would make sense. But does the game give any indication either way?

I got this from the way he talks in the end game dialgue , he seems more....i don't know.....whole

I just watched the end game dialogue (I teared up I admit it ) but he did seem very much fine (and sane). Thankfully.

Modifié par silver-crescent, 18 mars 2011 - 05:31 .

[nos_astra]

Addai67 wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
He also says that he did not want any of the blame on her shoulders.  Technically, all those outside of the situation will blame Anders only, never Hawke.  Anders gives him/her the chance to help the cause, but the removes the chance that he/she would get blamed for it.  It's a little weird and messed up, yes, but I can see some reasoning in it.

He says that, but how realistic is it?  She helped him build the bomb and distract the Grand Cleric while he planted it- just who is going to believe that Hawke didn't do that knowingly, especially if you spare him?  The immediate response to it is to annul the Circle, so regardless of Anders' intentions, he is not the only one who is blamed for his actions.

I thought, the whole Cassandra/Leliana thing is because it was assumed Hawke was to blame for Anders' actions.

Modifié par klarabella, 18 mars 2011 - 07:34 .

[nos_astra]

silver-crescent wrote...
I just watched the end game dialogue (I teared up I admit it ) but he did seem very much fine (and sane). Thankfully.

For the moment. With the world in flames I doubt that's the end of Vengeance.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Addai67 wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
He also says that he did not want any of the blame on her shoulders.  Technically, all those outside of the situation will blame Anders only, never Hawke.  Anders gives him/her the chance to help the cause, but the removes the chance that he/she would get blamed for it.  It's a little weird and messed up, yes, but I can see some reasoning in it.

He says that, but how realistic is it?  She helped him build the bomb and distract the Grand Cleric while he planted it- just who is going to believe that Hawke didn't do that knowingly, especially if you spare him?  The immediate response to it is to annul the Circle, so regardless of Anders' intentions, he is not the only one who is blamed for his actions.

There are going to be stories upon stories about what happened at Kirkwall.  People far away as the Anderfels could even assume that the skies opened up and some demon/supreme being basically god-fisted the Chantry.  But notice that no one, not Orsino or Meredith, pointed out that Hawke was a murderer.  Nor did any of Hawke's companions.  The only one that does is Sebastian -- but he never calls Hawke a murderer, either.  He merely says "You condone this?"  Anders is still the one to blame.

And look at Cassandra.  You can let Anders live, and yet she's still hoping that the world's salvation can be found in Hawke.  She might have not thought so at first, but I think the stories about Hawke are going to widely vary depending on the person.  People at the Chantry might indeed look over Anders and go ahead and blame Hawke because he/she is the central figure -- the Champion.  People at the Circle, however, see him/her as a freedom fighter, and use his/her name as a rallying cry.  Or, if you side with the Templars, the Chantry sees Hawke as a hero of order, while the Circles use Anders as their figurehead instead.

Eh, I'm kind of rambling, but in the end, Anders, in all of his short-sightedness, wanted the immediate blame placed on himself.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 18 mars 2011 - 05:48 .

[EnchantedEyes1]

RinjiRenee wrote...
There are going to be stories upon stories about what happened at Kirkwall.  People far away as the Anderfels could even assume that the skies opened up and some demon/supreme being basically god-fisted the Chantry.  But notice that no one, not Orsino or Meredith, pointed out that Hawke was a murderer.  Nor did any of Hawke's companions.  The only one that does is Sebastian -- but he never calls Hawke a murderer, either.  He merely says "You condone this?"  Anders is still the one to blame.

And look at Cassandra.  You can let Anders live, and yet she's still hoping that the world's salvation can be found in Hawke.  She might have not thought so at first, but I think the stories about Hawke are going to widely vary depending on the person.  People at the Chantry might indeed look over Anders and go ahead and blame Hawke because he/she is the central figure -- the Champion.  People at the Circle, however, see him/her as a freedom fighter, and use his/her name as a rallying cry.  Or, if you side with the Templars, the Chantry sees Hawke as a hero of order, while the Circles use Anders as their figurehead instead.

Eh, I'm kind of rambling, but in the end, Anders, in all of his short-sightedness, wanted the immediate blame placed on himself.

Also, Anders not only wanted to protect Hawke from blame from the others, but possibly from herself/himself.

Whether realistic or not, that was his intent as I understand it.

[nodice]

EnchantedEyes1 wrote...

Also, Anders not only wanted to protect Hawke from blame from the others, but possibly from herself/himself.

Whether realistic or not, that was his intent as I understand it.

What do you mean?

[YamiSnuffles]

RinjiRenee wrote...

There are going to be stories upon stories about what happened at Kirkwall.  People far away as the Anderfels could even assume that the skies opened up and some demon/supreme being basically god-fisted the Chantry.  But notice that no one, not Orsino or Meredith, pointed out that Hawke was a murderer.  Nor did any of Hawke's companions.  The only one that does is Sebastian -- but he never calls Hawke a murderer, either.  He merely says "You condone this?"  Anders is still the one to blame.

And look at Cassandra.  You can let Anders live, and yet she's still hoping that the world's salvation can be found in Hawke.  She might have not thought so at first, but I think the stories about Hawke are going to widely vary depending on the person.  People at the Chantry might indeed look over Anders and go ahead and blame Hawke because he/she is the central figure -- the Champion.  People at the Circle, however, see him/her as a freedom fighter, and use his/her name as a rallying cry.  Or, if you side with the Templars, the Chantry sees Hawke as a hero of order, while the Circles use Anders as their figurehead instead.

Eh, I'm kind of rambling, but in the end, Anders, in all of his short-sightedness, wanted the immediate blame placed on himself.

This. No one blames that on Hawke when it happens. And, from what I could tell, Cassandra didn't seem to blame that exact action on Hawke either. She seemed at first to think that maybe Hawke magically orchestrated everything including the idol from the start. But when the story comes out, she doesn't seem to blame Hawke at all, even when Hawke did indirectly help.

As for making Hawke help, you don't have to help him. I certainly thought about not helping him considering he was being blatantly suspicious. I did anyway because I still believed in him and believed, in the end, he was doing something worthwhile even if I didn't know what that was. Which is why he asks. He trusts that if you love him (and thus love his cause) you will want to help.

Again, this cause is extremely important. If he tells you directly what he's doing, as he says, you will either be compelled to stop him or worse (and he says worse) you'll want to help him. The way this dialogue is worded in the game, makes me feel like its not considered directly aiding him if you do it thinking you're gathering bogus potion ingredients. Finally, it comes down to game mechanics and they had to give Hawke the option of helping/not helping even if it didn't matter in the end.

It's emotional blackmail. It's cheap. I still don't think it doesn't mean he doesn't love Hawke though.