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[nodice]

shiba5 wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

nodice wrote...
Man I get mad when someone says things like these. It's not JUST A GAME. It's a game, a product of popular culture that reflects actual themes and issues and it should be open for discussion. The characters are pixels but also people. Anders' actions are something to think about. Anders represents something. I don't understand why anyone would pull the "just a game" card willingly, since it kills all the potential conversation. 

I think "just a game" (or "just a tv show/movie/book") is useful for gaining perspective when an argument becomes too personal or vitriolic. I love to argue about Dragon Age, probably more than most people, but I also have to keep in mind that there are no real world implications for the things that happen in the game, nor will another person's opinions/enjoyment of certain aspects ruin my own (admittedly, I sometimes ignore these things). Also, once you get into the realm of Ranty McMeanypants, discussion loses all nuance and devolves into something that isn't much fun at all and hardly enlightening.

Yes, this. Maybe my "ha-ha some pixels exploded." wasn't the best reply, but in reality that's all that happened. I find that trying to discuss things with people who are over-the-top ranting is an exercise in futility. I'm not going to change their mind. He actually made some decent points, but his posting style made me want to drop a "U Mad?" and forget it.

It's a pity really. It was a long post, he had really thought about those things. It sent a little bit different vibe just just coming here shouting how much Anders sucks and running&hiding. Like you said, he should have come forward a little be calmer, it was a missed opportunity this way. People get a lot of crap here, so I see the zero tolerance for ranters.

[signcherie]

nodice wrote...

shiba5 wrote...


Yes, this. Maybe my "ha-ha some pixels exploded." wasn't the best reply, but in reality that's all that happened. I find that trying to discuss things with people who are over-the-top ranting is an exercise in futility. I'm not going to change their mind. He actually made some decent points, but his posting style made me want to drop a "U Mad?" and forget it.

It's a pity really. It was a long post, he had really thought about those things. It sent a little bit different vibe just just coming here shouting how much Anders sucks and running&hiding. Like you said, he should have come forward a little be calmer, it was a missed opportunity this way. People get a lot of crap here, so I see the zero tolerance for ranters.

I felt similar to shiba, there were some good, discussable points in there. If the post had suggested a bit more...tolerance? I would have been all over that discussion. As it was, it felt more appropriate to laugh it off and try to walk away.

Let's have some Anders.

by runaire

Modifié par signcherie, 11 avril 2011 - 01:45 .

[shiba5]

nodice wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

nodice wrote...
Man I get mad when someone says things like these. It's not JUST A GAME. It's a game, a product of popular culture that reflects actual themes and issues and it should be open for discussion. The characters are pixels but also people. Anders' actions are something to think about. Anders represents something. I don't understand why anyone would pull the "just a game" card willingly, since it kills all the potential conversation. 

I think "just a game" (or "just a tv show/movie/book") is useful for gaining perspective when an argument becomes too personal or vitriolic. I love to argue about Dragon Age, probably more than most people, but I also have to keep in mind that there are no real world implications for the things that happen in the game, nor will another person's opinions/enjoyment of certain aspects ruin my own (admittedly, I sometimes ignore these things). Also, once you get into the realm of Ranty McMeanypants, discussion loses all nuance and devolves into something that isn't much fun at all and hardly enlightening.

Yes, this. Maybe my "ha-ha some pixels exploded." wasn't the best reply, but in reality that's all that happened. I find that trying to discuss things with people who are over-the-top ranting is an exercise in futility. I'm not going to change their mind. He actually made some decent points, but his posting style made me want to drop a "U Mad?" and forget it.

It's a pity really. It was a long post, he had really thought about those things. It sent a little bit different vibe just just coming here shouting how much Anders sucks and running&hiding. Like you said, he should have come forward a little be calmer, it was a missed opportunity this way. People get a lot of crap here, so I see the zero tolerance for ranters.

He gets so much hate everywhere else, I think people are a bit more defensive in here.

[nodice]

shiba5 wrote...

He gets so much hate everywhere else, I think people are a bit more defensive in here.

I've noticed  

[nekhbet]

I'd take the "it's a game" standard reply a bit differently. Because it's a game, there's little point in taking absolute positions in any debate about the morality of choices made in the game. The whole point of a game like this is to explore different options and approaches to situations (or represented situations) we face in real life, too. Complaining that someone else makes different choices, or even chastising them for doing so, is silly and against the spirit of the game. Anyone doing it deserves all the flogging they get, because they're being stupid.

Sure, the choices and their consequences can be discussed. But this isn't real world politics we're discussing. There, you don't have the luxury of playing with options and different moral approaches. But this is a game, and not reality. So let's quit the absolutism and play the game.

Modifié par nekhbet, 11 avril 2011 - 01:54 .

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

shiba5 wrote...

nodice wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

nodice wrote...
Man I get mad when someone says things like these. It's not JUST A GAME. It's a game, a product of popular culture that reflects actual themes and issues and it should be open for discussion. The characters are pixels but also people. Anders' actions are something to think about. Anders represents something. I don't understand why anyone would pull the "just a game" card willingly, since it kills all the potential conversation. 

I think "just a game" (or "just a tv show/movie/book") is useful for gaining perspective when an argument becomes too personal or vitriolic. I love to argue about Dragon Age, probably more than most people, but I also have to keep in mind that there are no real world implications for the things that happen in the game, nor will another person's opinions/enjoyment of certain aspects ruin my own (admittedly, I sometimes ignore these things). Also, once you get into the realm of Ranty McMeanypants, discussion loses all nuance and devolves into something that isn't much fun at all and hardly enlightening.

Yes, this. Maybe my "ha-ha some pixels exploded." wasn't the best reply, but in reality that's all that happened. I find that trying to discuss things with people who are over-the-top ranting is an exercise in futility. I'm not going to change their mind. He actually made some decent points, but his posting style made me want to drop a "U Mad?" and forget it.

It's a pity really. It was a long post, he had really thought about those things. It sent a little bit different vibe just just coming here shouting how much Anders sucks and running&hiding. Like you said, he should have come forward a little be calmer, it was a missed opportunity this way. People get a lot of crap here, so I see the zero tolerance for ranters.

He gets so much hate everywhere else, I think people are a bit more defensive in here.

Geez, we're still on this?

The guy had good points, and the consequences of free mages is very dangerous. (Let's not forget why mages are locked away and discriminated against. After all, that same reason is the source of the current state of the elven race, and Fenris' blind hatred for mages.)

However, it was displayed in a long, angry rant, which only served to upset and annoy people (Or turn them into trolls.) and the thread stops being fun. Which was the whole point.
When we RP, we develop affection for certain characters, so naturally we get a little upset. Which is when it's best to remember that it's only a game, and to stop acting like somebody realy did start WW3 by blowing up a church.

Discuss it calmly, and respectably, and I think most of us (all of us) can do the same.

[sassperella]

nodice wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

He gets so much hate everywhere else, I think people are a bit more defensive in here.

I've noticed  

Yes debate is one thing and I think most people in here are up for a good debate on the issue, and there were good points raised, but I think it was the guy's tone that caused the offence. And yes there is a certain amount of defensiveness in this thread 

[shiba5]

nodice wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

He gets so much hate everywhere else, I think people are a bit more defensive in here.

I've noticed  

Hehe, well it was his jumping right out with "You're justifying murder! Make me laugh some more!" that got me. I was like, "Yeah, it's easy because... it's.not.real."
IRL, would most people touch chronically disfunctional Anders with a 10' pole? Hmm... maybe just a one nighter, but after that? Probably not. But then he'd turn all stalker and that's definitely no fun.

[Threeparts]

nodice wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

He gets so much hate everywhere else, I think people are a bit more defensive in here.

I've noticed  

The main thing for me is that people come into this thread and seem to assume that we all love and adore Anders while being completely blind to his faults and flaws. I don't mind a debate, but one without the patronising, condescending tone would be nice.
I don't think anyone here would argue that he's a total innocent who never meant to harm anyone. We could argue that and look like fools, or we can accept his actions and analyse what prompted them, gaining more perspective on events and adding depth to an already interesting character.

I know I like Anders partly because he's a big ball of crazy who manages to screw up. For one thing, he makes my Hawke look like a perfectly reasonable, responsible citizen in comparison. 

[upsettingshorts]

Aw there was a serious discussion in the Anders thread and I missed it?

[smuglobster]

 

lol

Modifié par smuglobster, 11 avril 2011 - 02:04 .

[LastFadingSmile]

 Everybody kissing bathing everbody!


by riceballhikaru

Fenris and Anders can't even come to a soapy time accord. Oh those boys.

[Rinji the Bearded]

To be honest, I wouldn't touch most of the party members with a 10-foot pole. Anders just makes the biggest splash.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Aw there was a serious discussion in the Anders thread and I missed it?

You just missed it.  Crazytrain's about to get rolling though.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 11 avril 2011 - 02:04 .

[SurelyForth]

nodice wrote...

I haven't been able to read the whole discussion, but I read Ranty's post, and it had some good points. To respond it like that is just childish. I don't see much difference in that or that Isabela one. As far as I know the debate when pretty much like this: 1) "she's a w****", 2) "that's insulting", 3) "chill, she's pixels".

I agree that ranting isn't going anywhere, but that's when you guide the discussion to a constructive direction. This is when you see, if the opposite party is ready for an actual discussion.

Objectivity is preferable, but understating the content isn't. I get your point however. Thanks, Surely.

He had excellent points, but his tone suggested that he wasn't going to discuss things. It felt very much like a "Ya'll are so wrong in specific and sundry ways. Have fun justifying murder, because you're wrong" drop post and the fact that he didn't come back to respond to those that did address his valid points proves that he just wanted to **** on the thread, not really get into a conversation.

[signcherie]

Kolotosa wrote...

 Everybody kissing bathing everbody!


by riceballhikaru

Fenris and Anders can't even come to a soapy time accord. Oh those boys.

Holy cow this is so freakin' great.

[Threeparts]

Also, the poop bomb thing that people like to giggle about? Come on, guys, think past the "lol urine and manure" bit for a moment.

Anders knows how to make gunpowder.

Gunpowder.

You can take him with you on Isabela's ship at the end of the game. Guys. Do you know what this means?

****ing CANNON.

Yeah, yeah, the Qunari probably already have them, but who doesn't want to see Izzy in charge of a ship loaded with gunpowder and cannon with a crazy apostate mage on board, sailing off to kidnap the Queen of Antiva?

**** yes.

Modifié par Threeparts, 11 avril 2011 - 02:10 .

[nekhbet]

Threeparts wrote...

nodice wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

He gets so much hate everywhere else, I think people are a bit more defensive in here.

I've noticed  

The main thing for me is that people come into this thread and seem to assume that we all love and adore Anders while being completely blind to his faults and flaws. I don't mind a debate, but one without the patronising, condescending tone would be nice.
I don't think anyone here would argue that he's a total innocent who never meant to harm anyone. We could argue that and look like fools, or we can accept his actions and analyse what prompted them, gaining more perspective on events and adding depth to an already interesting character.

I know I like Anders partly because he's a big ball of crazy who manages to screw up. For one thing, he makes my Hawke look like a perfectly reasonable, responsible citizen in comparison. 

Back when RPGs were all about absolute good and evil nobody complained if you picked the evil side to support. The moment we stepped out of the b/w comfort zone people started going mental about the options that come a little too close to real-life grey area examples.

Bah, I say. Go for the grey zone! Embrace the crazy!

[shiba5]

Kolotosa wrote...

 Everybody kissing bathing everbody!


by riceballhikaru

Fenris and Anders can't even come to a soapy time accord. Oh those boys.

Awesome!

edit: I just noticed that's Seb being chaste. LOL

Modifié par shiba5, 11 avril 2011 - 02:05 .

[DeaHamlet]

Threeparts wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

While it might be more romantic to imagine Hawke pining for Anders the way he aches for him/her and eschewing all others, it doesn't feel realistic to me after he draws lines around himself. My Hawke understands why he wouldn't want to get involved with anyone, even if it is frustrating, and she's not going to put her life on hold on the off chance that he comes around (which is the main reason why it's going to be so hard to really romance Fenris), especially since she's not really doing much in the years between the expedition and the qunari stuff.

Yes, exactly this! Anders says repeatedly in Act I that it's better that they don't get involved, so I don't think it's unreasonable that Hawke might shrug and move on, even if s/he's still attracted to Blondie. Fenris refusing to move on for three years isn't really a healthy example, and it's extra frustrating that you can't even have a fling with Isabela without destroying any chance of a relationship with him later.

It's one of the things I might've liked to see for the time skips: one or two optional NPCs you could flirt with through Act I, who are then revealed in Act II as past lovers, similar to how you meet Elegant, Worthy and Tomwise offscreen between the prologue and first Act. Just something so it doesn't have to feel like Hawke's life has been completely devoid of physical companionship.

LOLz.  My warrior totally solved the problem.  She bedded any prostitute and cute ass to give her a wink... until she met Merrill and was left a tad tongue-tied and such... and then stopped visiting the ****s and flirting with the mage.

My canons both have a thing for Anders, but one of them actually says "okay, we're a bad idea..." and moves on to Fenris.  And then she keeps hoping he'll come to his senses... I wonder, can you bed the prostitutes after Fenris does his leaving thing?  I think I could live with that.  But moving on to Anders just feels like a slap in the face... oh yeah, Fenris, I told you I love you, you're wearing my crest and whatnots, but I'm going to move on to the man you hate the most.  Oh yes.  And Anders?  You get sloppy seconds after I sexxed up the elf, who you hate.
I can't do it!  

I'm too stuck on that to pull myself out enough to RP a character that would have the motivation to move between them.
But thanx to all you foxy ladies and gents, I don't have to!!! So thank you!  I get to hear the hot dialogue without putting my brain in a blender .  I *heart* you all!

[shiba5]

Threeparts wrote...

Also, the poop bomb thing that people like to giggle about? Come on, guys, think past the "lol urine and manure" bit for a moment.

Anders knows how to make gunpowder.

Gunpowder.

You can take him with you on Isabela's ship at the end of the game. Guys. Do you know what this means?

****ing CANNONS.

Yeah, yeah, the Qunari probably already have them, but who doesn't want to see Izzy in charge of a ship loaded with gunpowder and cannons with a crazy apostate mage on board, sailing off to kidnap the Queen of Antiva?

**** yes.

You said poop. huh huh huh

[upsettingshorts]

RinjiRenee wrote...

You just missed it.  Crazytrain's about to get rolling though.

Darn.  Seems like the instigator didn't stick around though, which is no fun.

RinjiRenee wrote...

To be honest, I wouldn't touch most of the party members with a 10-foot pole.

What about touching Isabela with a significantly shorter one?  No?  I'll see myself out.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 avril 2011 - 02:08 .

[Camilladilla]

Threeparts wrote...

Also, the poop bomb thing that people like to giggle about? Come on, guys, think past the "lol urine and manure" bit for a moment.

Anders knows how to make gunpowder.

Gunpowder.

You can take him with you on Isabela's ship at the end of the game. Guys. Do you know what this means?

****ing CANNONS.

Yeah, yeah, the Qunari probably already have them, but who doesn't want to see Izzy in charge of a ship loaded with gunpowder and cannons with a crazy apostate mage on board, sailing off to kidnap the Queen of Antiva?

**** yes.

YES!

I want to see Anders and Hawke in pirate get ups with Hawke possibly brandishing a sabre as they wreak even more havoc with Isabela across Thedas.

[SurelyForth]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

To be honest, I wouldn't touch most of the party members with a 10-foot pole.

What about touching Isabela with a significantly shorter one?  No?  I'll see myself out.

Well played! I laughed long and hard.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 11 avril 2011 - 02:11 .

[upsettingshorts]

You know how much gunpowder naval guns need? Especially of the ship-sinking kind? The crew would be spending far more time collecting the ingredients than actually pirating.

The measurements were taken in tons.

Also, this can happen:



Not precisely relevant to the discussion but, explosions - especially painted ones - are cool.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 avril 2011 - 02:20 .

[DeaHamlet]

Threeparts wrote...

Also, the poop bomb thing that people like to giggle about? Come on, guys, think past the "lol urine and manure" bit for a moment.

Anders knows how to make gunpowder.

Gunpowder.

You can take him with you on Isabela's ship at the end of the game. Guys. Do you know what this means?

****ing CANNON.

Yeah, yeah, the Qunari probably already have them, but who doesn't want to see Izzy in charge of a ship loaded with gunpowder and cannon with a crazy apostate mage on board, sailing off to kidnap the Queen of Antiva?

**** yes.

OH YES.  I'm down for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CANNONS!!!! SWEET CANNONS!
Ahem.  I'll stop yelling in excitement now.  I'm at work, someone might start thinking I'm crazy.