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[YamiSnuffles]

CatOfEvilGenius wrote...


ZOMG Izzy will have the biggest shipgasm evar!  It will be epic and felt across the entire ocean!  She likes big boats, but I bet she likes well equipped big boats even moar.

I do wonder, is Anders gunpowder entirely chemistry based, like the gaatlok, or magicky?  The Chantry jenga looked very purple and glowy and magical.  Does that mean Anders boom is even more potent than qunari boom?  Or just based on different principles?

----------------------------------------

Big, big thank you to all the folks who said Meanie McRanty made several valid points, albeit in a tone not conducive to discussion.  This thread would not be such a great place if people didn't see those points, if it were full of fangirly 16 year olds.  (It's full of fangirly adults, we're much better!)  Too bad that poster didn't actually read all the well deserved criticism Anders gets here.  I missed all the fun, since I was playing the game at the time.  Game distracts from discussion of game!

* kisses everyone, especially proponents of civilized discussion *

I assume that there is some magical component to it. The explosion certainly didn't look like a normal non-magical explosion. Also, I agree with those who say it seems to have been set off from afar by magic. So, likely, you would need a mage around to recreate it/use it.

Also, yes, civilized discussion for all!

[SidheKate]

ipgd wrote...
The strategy guide gets a lot of things wrong. I wouldn't take it as any sort of reliable source of information.

Jennifer Hepler said somewhere that it was supposed to be in the game. It might be fixed with the patch.

Yes, she indicated that she would speak to the developers about it, but I would advise everyone against holding their collective breaths about it being in this patch.  She posted that she would talk to them pretty late in the patch development process.  It is very possible that it is on the 'to do' list but didn't make the cut for getting the code to QA/QC and then on to the outside companies to certification in time.

Which doesn't mean it will never be fixed, but it may not be fixed during this next round of patches.

[Threeparts]

SurelyForth wrote...

Re: Knifing Anders

I think that, despite him wanting to die, an argument could be made that keeping him alive to fight for his cause isn't a punishment at all. The impression I get in the end when you Friendmance him is that he's pretty much at peace with what/who he is and he knows exactly what must be done and he's more than willing to do that until the end.

That's true, apart from his on-the-box acknowlegements, he doesn't express further remorse for his actions. He's pleased to be invited along for further templar-fighting, and in the Gallows he states that he knows there will be war because of this and still wants to push forward.
He's almost manic at that point with his speech, especially if romanced. I do wonder if the reality will come crashing down and he'll go back into the dysthymic phase once the adrenaline has worn off, or if he'll shrug it off as casualties of the revolution that had to die for the greater good and simply move on with his plans.

[thebrute7]

Ryzaki wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Apparently a lot of his rival dialog is bugged too. Which is why I've stopped playing for now. Seemed pointless until they fix a lot of things.

The funny thing is his rivalry non romance path is a little bit less bugged than the normal romance one. 

Alas they both break once you hit The Last Straw. <_<

I swear I am the only person in the frickin world who didn't get a single bug in my first playthrough... as far as I know anyway. 

I did a rival playthrough once and honestly hated it... mostly because I agree with a lot of what Anders says.  I don't get what's so great about rivalmance.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

SurelyForth wrote...

I think that, despite him wanting to die, an argument could be made that keeping him alive to fight for his cause isn't a punishment at all. The impression I get in the end when you Friendmance him is that he's pretty much at peace with what/who he is and he knows exactly what must be done and he's more than willing to do that until the end.

One of the things that pressed on him in DA2 was the fact that, due to the environment in Kirkwall, there was only so much that he could do. He couldn't openly challenge the templars on his own, because that would raise anti-mage sentiment but not do anything to tip it to a breaking point the way the Chantry explosion did. There were only so many mages they could smuggle out and nothing to be done to ensure their longterm safety. He was, largely, trying to work within the system and was growing more and more frustrated with it every day.

Now that the Circles are rebelling and there's a struggle for power, he's no longer held to those rules.

True, but that's if he and Justice/Vengeance have reached a sort of balance.

To be honest, I'm not sure I want the mages to be completely free.
They're not normal people, and they are intensely dangerous.
The Tevinter Imperium stands as a great testemony to what happens if certain mages get too much power. (The result? The Dalish are clinging to their culture by threads, children are torn from their families and imprisoned to keep society safe, and then there are people like Fenris...)

By all means, they deserve the rights to enjoy life, to settle down and have a family and such. They can contribute a lot with their abilities.

But some order similar to the Circle needs to be maintained for that freedom.
For instance, had Hawke and Bethany not had their father to teach them, they might have turned out like Connor or Meredith's sister.

I wonder if it's possible for Anders to see that...?

[Ryzaki]

thebrute7 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Apparently a lot of his rival dialog is bugged too. Which is why I've stopped playing for now. Seemed pointless until they fix a lot of things.

The funny thing is his rivalry non romance path is a little bit less bugged than the normal romance one. 

Alas they both break once you hit The Last Straw. <_<

I swear I am the only person in the frickin world who didn't get a single bug in my first playthrough... as far as I know anyway. 

I did a rival playthrough once and honestly hated it... mostly because I agree with a lot of what Anders says.  I don't get what's so great about rivalmance.

Because frankly a lot of what he says is to me wrong. Mages do deserve not to be abused and to live as others do. Letting them all run around freely unchecked is not the answer. They are dangerous. Much more so than the average person. That said it's personal preference. I don't understand the appeal of the friendship mance myself. 

And you had bugs. You may not have recongized them but they're still there. FOr instance you wouldn't have been able to complete the "who needs rescuing?" quest. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 avril 2011 - 05:59 .

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

thebrute7 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Apparently a lot of his rival dialog is bugged too. Which is why I've stopped playing for now. Seemed pointless until they fix a lot of things.

The funny thing is his rivalry non romance path is a little bit less bugged than the normal romance one. 

Alas they both break once you hit The Last Straw. <_<

I swear I am the only person in the frickin world who didn't get a single bug in my first playthrough... as far as I know anyway. 

I did a rival playthrough once and honestly hated it... mostly because I agree with a lot of what Anders says.  I don't get what's so great about rivalmance.

Nathanial didn't show up for me even though he survived.

Merrill broke down about killing her clan before it even happened and I ended up not killing them anyways.XD

[SidheKate]

thebrute7 wrote...

I swear I am the only person in the frickin world who didn't get a single bug in my first playthrough... as far as I know anyway. 

I did a rival playthrough once and honestly hated it... mostly because I agree with a lot of what Anders says.  I don't get what's so great about rivalmance.

For me:  I think it is interesting because it is different. It is the effective seperation between man and spirit, whereas the friendship is the merging of man and spirit.  Watching the two different stories as they evolve gave me some interesting perspective on the results of my various Hawke's otherwise good intentions.

I think some others here like the steamy frustration that goes on with rival Anders.   Not to speak for anyone else here.

And yes, you probably are the only person in the world that didn't get a single bug!  I had few, but the ones that were there were noticable (e.g. rescue somebody on the Coast in Act 3 bug).   Edit: I see I was ninja'd on mentioning this quest.

Modifié par SidheKate, 11 avril 2011 - 06:03 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Nathanial is my favorite bug. He isn't supposed to show up because I killed the Architect, but he always does because I had him along for the end battle. So it annoys me a bit to hear him talk about the WC sparing the Architect (she so did not, Nate... you were there and yelled at her for it!). However, it's worth it to see Nate again and get some funny Anders quips.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Ryzaki wrote...

thebrute7 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Apparently a lot of his rival dialog is bugged too. Which is why I've stopped playing for now. Seemed pointless until they fix a lot of things.

The funny thing is his rivalry non romance path is a little bit less bugged than the normal romance one. 

Alas they both break once you hit The Last Straw. <_<

I swear I am the only person in the frickin world who didn't get a single bug in my first playthrough... as far as I know anyway. 

I did a rival playthrough once and honestly hated it... mostly because I agree with a lot of what Anders says.  I don't get what's so great about rivalmance.

Because frankly a lot of what he says is to me wrong. Mages do deserve not to be abused and to live as others do. Letting them all run around freely unchecked is not the answer. They are dangerous. Much more so than the average person. That said it's personal preference. I don't understand the appeal of the friendship mance myself.

It's like the Arishok said, they won't hand the powder over because it would go horribly in the hands of "children". Mage children are pretty much that. It's clear letting them roam free isn't wise nor is treating them like prisoners. It seems most of the negativety stems from abuse. There will always be blood mages as long as there are people who desire power.

[Dasha Dreyson]

Speaking of bugs, in one playthrough Anders is living at Hawke's place going "I think I need to get a nicer place."

Edit: That's all he'll say too, and mother dearest never comments about him being there in any playthrough.

Modifié par Dasha Dreyson, 11 avril 2011 - 06:08 .

[Aynslie]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

thebrute7 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Apparently a lot of his rival dialog is bugged too. Which is why I've stopped playing for now. Seemed pointless until they fix a lot of things.

The funny thing is his rivalry non romance path is a little bit less bugged than the normal romance one. 

Alas they both break once you hit The Last Straw. <_<

I swear I am the only person in the frickin world who didn't get a single bug in my first playthrough... as far as I know anyway. 

I did a rival playthrough once and honestly hated it... mostly because I agree with a lot of what Anders says.  I don't get what's so great about rivalmance.

Nathanial didn't show up for me even though he survived.

Merrill broke down about killing her clan before it even happened and I ended up not killing them anyways.XD

I haven't noticed many bugs either.  Fenris kiss scene was bugged but I didn't mind since I'm not a fan of Romancing Fenris.  Other than that I've haven't experienced any quest bugs, and I've not gotten the infamous Sebastian/Isabela bug.  My game did freeze a couple times at first, but It may very well have been my 360 seeing as how I've gone though 4 play throughs without freezing again.  

So I have only experienced a couple bugs myself, in what everyone is calling the buggiest game ever made.  I guess I shall thank the gamer gods for my good fortune 

[SurelyForth]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
True, but that's if he and Justice/Vengeance have reached a sort of balance.

To be honest, I'm not sure I want the mages to be completely free.
They're not normal people, and they are intensely dangerous.
The Tevinter Imperium stands as a great testemony to what happens if certain mages get too much power. (The result? The Dalish are clinging to their culture by threads, children are torn from their families and imprisoned to keep society safe, and then there are people like Fenris...)

By all means, they deserve the rights to enjoy life, to settle down and have a family and such. They can contribute a lot with their abilities.

But some order similar to the Circle needs to be maintained for that freedom.
For instance, had Hawke and Bethany not had their father to teach them, they might have turned out like Connor or Meredith's sister.

I wonder if it's possible for Anders to see that...?

I...think it is. When he's getting towards the end and justifying the blood mages in Kirkwall because things have gotten so bad, he's still willing to work with and be civil to the templars. His big target seemed to be the Chantry and the fact that they use religious doctrine to not only confine mages but to keep the general population afraid of them. It was the system he opposed because it was perpetuating a cycle of abuse and subjugating mages.

I could definitely see him seeing reason in a system that really was meant to keep mages safe as long as it was not built on a doctrine of fear and hatred and it did not prioritize the rights of all non-mages over the rights of mages (which is my issue with the Right of Annulment).

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Speaking of bugs, in one playthrough Anders is living at Hawke's place going "I think I need to get a nicer place."

Edit: That's all he'll say too, and mother dearest never comments about him being there in any playthrough.

Bah. I wanted to see in-law banter!
For instance, Templar!Carver and Anders... ooh... that'd be fun. 

Or Leandra commenting on how similar her daughter is to her. (What with the apostate-fetish thing...)

Why is Gamlen the only person who comments!?

[YamiSnuffles]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Speaking of bugs, in one playthrough Anders is living at Hawke's place going "I think I need to get a nicer place."

Edit: That's all he'll say too, and mother dearest never comments about him being there in any playthrough.

I think that must be a bug. I only got that comment from him once and that was just before he moved in with Hawke.

EDIT: As to Leandra, I got a comment from her the second playthrough, but not the first... I think? I think it has to be timed right or something. Not sure.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 11 avril 2011 - 06:11 .

[Ace Attorney]

Anders as a Zodiac Sign: Geminis (I'm a Gemini )

[Dasha Dreyson]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Speaking of bugs, in one playthrough Anders is living at Hawke's place going "I think I need to get a nicer place."

Edit: That's all he'll say too, and mother dearest never comments about him being there in any playthrough.

I think that must be a bug. I only got that comment from him once and that was just before he moved in with Hawke.

EDIT: As to Leandra, I got a comment from her the second playthrough, but not the first... I think? I think it has to be timed right or something. Not sure.

Supposedly it does, but I've never gotten it at all. My Hawke house dialogue has never cycled right in any playthrough. Yay for YouTube letting me see more!

[Kawamura]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Speaking of bugs, in one playthrough Anders is living at Hawke's place going "I think I need to get a nicer place."

Edit: That's all he'll say too, and mother dearest never comments about him being there in any playthrough.

Bah. I wanted to see in-law banter!
For instance, Templar!Carver and Anders... ooh... that'd be fun. 

Or Leandra commenting on how similar her daughter is to her. (What with the apostate-fetish thing...)

Why is Gamlen the only person who comments!?

In my game, because he's seriously curious about my Hawke and Anders' gay sex.

[Addai]

thebrute7 wrote...
I don't know.  It seems to me that the typical goals of terrorism invlolve directly harming the populace to instil fear and provoke change. 

Anders attack to me seems directed only at the Chantry itself and the templars, not at the people.  The effect on the people of Kirkwall would be a secondary effect, but I feel his main goal was simply to get rid of the chance for compromise, not to instil fear into the regular people. 

But hey, that's just me.

It's an attack on their religious center, intended to cause a war that would upend the entire civilization.  It's pretty harmful to everyday society.

As for whether to kill Anders or not, on my 1st pt I didn't because I thought he ought to fight, but the dialogue with him was very unsatisfying.  He took my Hawke's support of the innocent Circle mages as an endorsement for his cause.  I don't recall it exactly, except that my Hawke was all  and Anders was all  and in the end it was very .

[thebrute7]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Speaking of bugs, in one playthrough Anders is living at Hawke's place going "I think I need to get a nicer place."

Edit: That's all he'll say too, and mother dearest never comments about him being there in any playthrough.

Bah. I wanted to see in-law banter!
For instance, Templar!Carver and Anders... ooh... that'd be fun. 

Or Leandra commenting on how similar her daughter is to her. (What with the apostate-fetish thing...)

Why is Gamlen the only person who comments!?

I wondered that as well...  I guess Leandra is oblivious?  Maybe she's too busy with her "suitor". *sobs*

Oh man, I just realized that in my Fanfic where Betha and Carver survive, I should totally not make either of them a Grey Warden and send them to the templars/Circle instead.  Family toubles coming up I think 

[Thrazesul]

Has anyone seen a staff which produces a light blue clawed hand during attacks? O.O Either Anders got a very interesting new staff or I'm missing something with him.

[AnniLau]

Kawamura wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Speaking of bugs, in one playthrough Anders is living at Hawke's place going "I think I need to get a nicer place."

Edit: That's all he'll say too, and mother dearest never comments about him being there in any playthrough.

Bah. I wanted to see in-law banter!
For instance, Templar!Carver and Anders... ooh... that'd be fun. 

Or Leandra commenting on how similar her daughter is to her. (What with the apostate-fetish thing...)

Why is Gamlen the only person who comments!?

In my game, because he's seriously curious about my Hawke and Anders' gay sex.

Maybe he was hot for Malcolm Hawke back in the day and that's the real reason he resents Leandra for running away with him.

[Kawamura]

AnniLau wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Speaking of bugs, in one playthrough Anders is living at Hawke's place going "I think I need to get a nicer place."

Edit: That's all he'll say too, and mother dearest never comments about him being there in any playthrough.

Bah. I wanted to see in-law banter!
For instance, Templar!Carver and Anders... ooh... that'd be fun. 

Or Leandra commenting on how similar her daughter is to her. (What with the apostate-fetish thing...)

Why is Gamlen the only person who comments!?

In my game, because he's seriously curious about my Hawke and Anders' gay sex.

Maybe he was hot for Malcolm Hawke back in the day and that's the real reason he resents Leandra for running away with him.

Well, in my headcanon, Anders does look a little like papa Hawke, so why not?

[SurelyForth]

Addai67 wrote...
 I don't recall it exactly, except that my Hawke was all  and Anders was all  and in the end it was very .

When I read this I was so .

I think you could handwave that as being Crazy Old Anders, if you're not romancing him or anything. It's like him doing that to someone who rivaled him- his being alive and you helping the mages is pretty much the biggest WIN ever in his eyes and he can't see it as anything but that.

Anders: He rejects your reality and crazypants substitutes his own.

Nerana wrote...

Has anyone seen a staff which produces a light blue clawed hand during attacks? O.O Either Anders got a very interesting new staff or I'm missing something with him.

I believe that any staff that does spirit damage does the Spirit Fist of Justice finishing move. Other staves have different effects, although none are as awesome. I let him steal boss kills because it will glitch sometimes and show up in the cutscene.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 11 avril 2011 - 06:28 .

[Aynslie]

Addai67 wrote...

thebrute7 wrote...
I don't know.  It seems to me that the typical goals of terrorism invlolve directly harming the populace to instil fear and provoke change. 

Anders attack to me seems directed only at the Chantry itself and the templars, not at the people.  The effect on the people of Kirkwall would be a secondary effect, but I feel his main goal was simply to get rid of the chance for compromise, not to instil fear into the regular people. 

But hey, that's just me.

It's an attack on their religious center, intended to cause a war that would upend the entire civilization.  It's pretty harmful to everyday society.

As for whether to kill Anders or not, on my 1st pt I didn't because I thought he ought to fight, but the dialogue with him was very unsatisfying.  He took my Hawke's support of the innocent Circle mages as an endorsement for his cause.  I don't recall it exactly, except that my Hawke was all  and Anders was all  and in the end it was very .

I agree with thebrute7.

I didn't seem like an act of terrorism to me, and the world was already on the brink of war with the mage problem.  I don't know how many people have the exiled prince DLC but it is important in understanding what is going on, and in knowing that the divine is very close to calling an exhalted march.  I think the war was inevitable and I think Anders understood this.  Considering that the Changry is the head of the Templar order it is perfectly plausible that Anders attacked what he saw as a military target, not a civilian target.  IMO It was an act of War, a war that was already being fought behind the curtains where the general public couldn't see, it was not an act of terrorism.