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[shiba5]

silver-crescent wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

16th playthrough, and the ending still makes me go OMWTF.

For some people it must be something like:
Hawke: ...you... you deceived me!
Anders: I'm sorry, but I had to blow up the Chant-
H: I don't give a damn about the bloody Chantry!!!!
A: What? Then what are we talking about?
H: You made me think I was the main character, you lying bastard! How could you? I wanted to blow up the Chantry!!! 
A: ...


I actually replayed DA:O as well... The darkest parts of Origins are like cute-fluffy bunnies in comparison to the lightest parts of DA2!

I think a lot of people just got angry. I had heard something about 4chan trying to destroy the game's metacritic rating right before I finished and I didn't know why. Then the credits rolled and I just lost it. Oh, those poor "heroes" nerd raging and gnashing their teeth in anguish. I guess I'm just a sucker for tragedies because I loved it.

Actually the whole destroying the game's metacritic rating thing happened before the game even was out. I doubt most people had even seen the ending by then 

Oh, I was trying to avoid spoilers so I didn't read anything until I was well into the game. WTF was that about then?

edit for top!

Modifié par shiba5, 12 avril 2011 - 12:19 .

[cleosilver]

shiba5 wrote...

Mistress Tasharra wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

AndreaDraco wrote...

Kolotosa wrote...

*snip*

I agree. The level of detail is amazing. Great stuff!

I just noticed the "Grey ****dens" 

Speaking of the ****de- I mean, Wardens, you'd think darkspawn, archdemons, talking darkspawn and a Blight would have a darker theme than the tension between templars and mages, no?

Apparently: No. XD

Not when you throw Anders into the mix, apparently.

Maybe this has been covered in 850 some pages (probably), but I wonder if there would be nearly the outrage if Anders had just killed Elthina - or Hawke had. Is it the exploding building that makes people go all nutty? People are getting slaughtered left and right the entire game, and some of them are more innocent than Elthina.

I think a big part of the problem a lot of the ragers have about it is simply that it wasn't their character that chose to do it. If there'd been a quest as part of the story where they actually blew the chantry up themselves I'm fairly sure a large number of them would have done the quest and gone merrily on their way without even thinking twice about it. Possibly even with cheers at the pretty pyrotechnics. Burt becasue it was an NPC doing it and not them they feel cheated and have to rage about it.

[SurelyForth]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
DA2 made you into a champion, letting you wonder: What is my important role in this story as its protagonist?
Then you discover it: To stand on the sidelines basically doing nothing to affect the final outcome of the plot!

I love this game. 

I haven't figured out at what point I realized Hawke's "rise to power" was going to be more of a "thrust into power by his/her own need for coin and the capriciousness of others." I think it was when you show up to rescue Saemus and he decides, for no real reason beyond pettiness, that he wants Hawke to take him in rather than the Winters. Randomly saving the dwarf who wanted the gatlock recipe is another.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 12 avril 2011 - 12:22 .

[silver-crescent]

shiba5 wrote...

Maybe this has been covered in 850 some pages (probably), but I wonder if there would be nearly the outrage if Anders had just killed Elthina - or Hawke had. Is it the exploding building that makes people go all nutty? People are getting slaughtered left and right the entire game, and some of them are more innocent than Elthina.

In short: yes. I'm pretty sure that's it.

[silver-crescent]

shiba5 wrote...

Oh, I was trying to avoid spoilers so I didn't read anything until I was well into the game. WTF was that about then?

Mostly a serious case of pc gamer nerdraging, due to the game being too "consoledized" and whatnot.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

SurelyForth wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
DA2 made you into a champion, letting you wonder: What is my important role in this story as its protagonist?
Then you discover it: To stand on the sidelines basically doing nothing to affect the final outcome of the plot!

I love this game. 

I haven't figured out at what point I realized Hawke's "rise to power" was going to be more of a "thrust into power by his/her own need for coin and the capriciousness of others." I think it was when you show up to rescue Saemus and he decides, for no real reason beyond pettiness, that he wants Hawke to take him in rather than the Winters. Randomly saving the dwarf who wanted the gatlock recipe is another.

I think that's what I love about the game.

Hawke was a nobody, trying to get by. Half a dozen accidents later, and a potentially tragic trip down the deep roads (Potenial cause for tragic ending #1 - the Lyrium Idol is found. Accidentally.) and then (s)he's a noble.

Then Hawke is thrust into the mess with the Qunari, wins and is made champion. Did (s)he ask for it? Not at all.

Act III, things are getting tense. But no matter what Hawke does, (or in my Hawke's case, doesn't do) Anders will blow up the Chantry, Meredith will call the right of annulment and Kirkwall will become a warzone.
Regardless of which side you choose, Thedas will be brought to the brink of war.

Hawke is just a powerless victim of circumstance, and I love it.  

[shiba5]

cleosilver wrote...

I think a big part of the problem a lot of the ragers have about it is simply that it wasn't their character that chose to do it. If there'd been a quest as part of the story where they actually blew the chantry up themselves I'm fairly sure a large number of them would have done the quest and gone merrily on their way without even thinking twice about it. Possibly even with cheers at the pretty pyrotechnics. Burt becasue it was an NPC doing it and not them they feel cheated and have to rage about it.

I think you're right. I've seen many people cheerfully brag about killing the wounded soldier in The Wilds in DA:O.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

cleosilver wrote...

I think a big part of the problem a lot of the ragers have about it is simply that it wasn't their character that chose to do it. If there'd been a quest as part of the story where they actually blew the chantry up themselves I'm fairly sure a large number of them would have done the quest and gone merrily on their way without even thinking twice about it. Possibly even with cheers at the pretty pyrotechnics. Burt becasue it was an NPC doing it and not them they feel cheated and have to rage about it.

My point exactly.
People don't like being out of control.

[cleosilver]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
DA2 made you into a champion, letting you wonder: What is my important role in this story as its protagonist?
Then you discover it: To stand on the sidelines basically doing nothing to affect the final outcome of the plot!

I love this game. 

I haven't figured out at what point I realized Hawke's "rise to power" was going to be more of a "thrust into power by his/her own need for coin and the capriciousness of others." I think it was when you show up to rescue Saemus and he decides, for no real reason beyond pettiness, that he wants Hawke to take him in rather than the Winters. Randomly saving the dwarf who wanted the gatlock recipe is another.

I think that's what I love about the game.

Hawke was a nobody, trying to get by. Half a dozen accidents later, and a potentially tragic trip down the deep roads (Potenial cause for tragic ending #1 - the Lyrium Idol is found. Accidentally.) and then (s)he's a noble.

Then Hawke is thrust into the mess with the Qunari, wins and is made champion. Did (s)he ask for it? Not at all.

Act III, things are getting tense. But no matter what Hawke does, (or in my Hawke's case, doesn't do) Anders will blow up the Chantry, Meredith will call the right of annulment and Kirkwall will become a warzone.
Regardless of which side you choose, Thedas will be brought to the brink of war.

Hawke is just a powerless victim of circumstance, and I love it.  

I think this is one of the reason I love this game so much. ( the other is a certain apostate but I guess I'm not alone there either). It reminds me of the line in Twelfth Night. "Some are born great, some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them." With Hawke it feels very much the last of those and it's a nice change from the usual stereotype.

[shiba5]

silver-crescent wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Maybe this has been covered in 850 some pages (probably), but I wonder if there would be nearly the outrage if Anders had just killed Elthina - or Hawke had. Is it the exploding building that makes people go all nutty? People are getting slaughtered left and right the entire game, and some of them are more innocent than Elthina.

In short: yes. I'm pretty sure that's it.

But how many of them would have done it themselves given the choice? Bet there would have been screenshots galore all over the forums.
I'm sure some of it is just the imagery, but some of it is that the choice was taken from them.
I know that I wanted the choice to drag Elthina out of Kirkwall and dump her in one of those look-a-like caves. She'd never find her way back!

[Ryzaki]

Hopefully BW will not make DA3 as railroaded and the next protagonist as hands off and being led around by other people. 

That said I do hope it's in Orlais. I want to see Celene. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 12:41 .

[Dasha Dreyson]

silver-crescent wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Oh, I was trying to avoid spoilers so I didn't read anything until I was well into the game. WTF was that about then?

Mostly a serious case of pc gamer nerdraging, due to the game being too "consoledized" and whatnot.

Meh, I generally play games with just a mouse anyway (except for Dead Space, I use an xbox controller for that). I think DCU suffered a bit porting, but not so much DA2. I do have an xbox 360, but it's currently sitting in the closet because it's an early one. It still works, but hubby is afraid it'll break if someone sneezes in its general direction.

[nekhbet]

silver-crescent wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Maybe this has been covered in 850 some pages (probably), but I wonder if there would be nearly the outrage if Anders had just killed Elthina - or Hawke had. Is it the exploding building that makes people go all nutty? People are getting slaughtered left and right the entire game, and some of them are more innocent than Elthina.

In short: yes. I'm pretty sure that's it.

I think it's the exploding thing, as well, though I doubt the reaction would have been as strong as it was now had it been Hawke planting the bombs...

But oh boy, if you the story involves anything resembling 9/11, no matter how different scenario etc. you'll get people raging with white hot hatred. Knee-jerk reaction that blinds many people to a lot of the other aspects. Not just in DA2, mind.

[phantomdragoness]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
DA2 made you into a champion, letting you wonder: What is my important role in this story as its protagonist?
Then you discover it: To stand on the sidelines basically doing nothing to affect the final outcome of the plot!

I love this game. 

I haven't figured out at what point I realized Hawke's "rise to power" was going to be more of a "thrust into power by his/her own need for coin and the capriciousness of others." I think it was when you show up to rescue Saemus and he decides, for no real reason beyond pettiness, that he wants Hawke to take him in rather than the Winters. Randomly saving the dwarf who wanted the gatlock recipe is another.

I think that's what I love about the game.

Hawke was a nobody, trying to get by. Half a dozen accidents later, and a potentially tragic trip down the deep roads (Potenial cause for tragic ending #1 - the Lyrium Idol is found. Accidentally.) and then (s)he's a noble.

Then Hawke is thrust into the mess with the Qunari, wins and is made champion. Did (s)he ask for it? Not at all.

Act III, things are getting tense. But no matter what Hawke does, (or in my Hawke's case, doesn't do) Anders will blow up the Chantry, Meredith will call the right of annulment and Kirkwall will become a warzone.
Regardless of which side you choose, Thedas will be brought to the brink of war.

Hawke is just a powerless victim of circumstance, and I love it.  

Maker: *angeling magnifying glass so it reflects the sun*
Andraste: *sighs* Husband, what are you doing?
Maker: Shhhhh! Have to angle this right...
Andraste: Are you picking on Hawke again?!
Maker: *Chantry explodes* There we go!
Hawke:
Andraste: Why didn't you pick on the Warden this much?
Maker: She's the favorite.

At least...that's the image I get when I think of "victim of circumstance."

[shiba5]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hopefully BW will not make DA3 as railroaded and the next protagonist as hands off and being led around by other people. It creates (for some people) a disconnect and a made me wonder why the hell was I playing.

To have your feelings manipulated and torn to shreds? Well, that's why I play anyway. :happy:

[shiba5]

nekhbet wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Maybe this has been covered in 850 some pages (probably), but I wonder if there would be nearly the outrage if Anders had just killed Elthina - or Hawke had. Is it the exploding building that makes people go all nutty? People are getting slaughtered left and right the entire game, and some of them are more innocent than Elthina.

In short: yes. I'm pretty sure that's it.

I think it's the exploding thing, as well, though I doubt the reaction would have been as strong as it was now had it been Hawke planting the bombs...

But oh boy, if you the story involves anything resembling 9/11, no matter how different scenario etc. you'll get people raging with white hot hatred. Knee-jerk reaction that blinds many people to a lot of the other aspects. Not just in DA2, mind.

Yep, I was surprised they "went there". I cringed a bit because I knew they'd catch hell for it from the knee-jerkers. They had to know what they were stepping in though and they're all adults.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hopefully BW will not make DA3 as railroaded and the next protagonist as hands off and being led around by other people. It creates (for some people) a disconnect and a made me wonder why the hell was I playing.

While it was nice to receive an exercise in futility (no I'm not being sarcastic) I agree, particularly if the next game features Hawke. It sounds like chaos just broke out, and somebody will have to take control.

(Also, I want an experienced character of high social standing for a change. I'm fed up of building up from nothing...)

I still think DA2 was just made to bridge between DA:O/A and DA3.

[Ryzaki]

shiba5 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Hopefully BW will not make DA3 as railroaded and the next protagonist as hands off and being led around by other people. It creates (for some people) a disconnect and a made me wonder why the hell was I playing.

To have your feelings manipulated and torn to shreds? Well, that's why I play anyway. :happy:

Yeah my feelings weren't manipulated and torn to shreds though. 

It doesn't elp that at end game it felt less like grey grey and more like "everyone's lost their minds/were douchebags to begin with." 

Orsino could've gone without the harvester moment. (Hell I would've loved if you only could find out he was a BM on the Templar ending) and Meredith could've gone without flipping out completely due to the idol. (Or at least take that ridculous ninja jumping around out.) It was hard to take the game seriously once I hit that moment. 

[Camilladilla]

shiba5 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Hopefully BW will not make DA3 as railroaded and the next protagonist as hands off and being led around by other people. It creates (for some people) a disconnect and a made me wonder why the hell was I playing.

To have your feelings manipulated and torn to shreds? Well, that's why I play anyway. :happy:

Pretty much this for me. Colour me a masochist, but I loved the emotional punches the game threw my way. Not just the obvious bits with Leandra or the chantry jenga, but even quests like Shepherding Wolves had me feeling torn and upset. Nothing in DAO ever came close to the level of emotional manipulation DA2 had on me.

[silver-crescent]

Ryzaki wrote...
Orsino could've gone without the harvester moment. (Hell I would've loved if you only could find out he was a BM on the Templar ending) and Meredith could've gone without flipping out completely due to the idol. (Or at least take that ridculous ninja jumping around out.) It was hard to take the game seriously once I hit that moment. 

Well the problem is the game needed its final bosses. It would have been no fun if you just fought Orsino as a regular mage or Meredith as a regular warrior.

[upsettingshorts]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hopefully BW will not make DA3 as railroaded and the next protagonist as hands off and being led around by other people. 

Yeah, I'd hate for it go back to what Dragon Age: Origins did myself.

[Ryzaki]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Hopefully BW will not make DA3 as railroaded and the next protagonist as hands off and being led around by other people. It creates (for some people) a disconnect and a made me wonder why the hell was I playing.

While it was nice to receive an exercise in futility (no I'm not being sarcastic) I agree, particularly if the next game features Hawke. It sounds like chaos just broke out, and somebody will have to take control.

(Also, I want an experienced character of high social standing for a change. I'm fed up of building up from nothing...)

I still think DA2 was just made to bridge between DA:O/A and DA3.

Hey now! The HN and DN didn't come from nothing. 

I dunno about the experienced character bit. If that's the case I do want to start off the game fairly young. (Like Hawke's age in the beginning of DA2). Though being an Orlesian noble wouldn't be so bad. As long as the PC isn't voiced. I don't want to sound like Riordan. (not that he has a bad voice but still...). 

[Ryzaki]

Edit: ah nvm. 

I prefer DAO. It's that simple. DA2 was a mishmash of everything I find annoying in video games. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 12:55 .

[upsettingshorts]

In DA2 the "why" matters. In DAO the "why" was irrelevant.

DAO hid nothing. Except personality.

[Dasha Dreyson]

nekhbet wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Maybe this has been covered in 850 some pages (probably), but I wonder if there would be nearly the outrage if Anders had just killed Elthina - or Hawke had. Is it the exploding building that makes people go all nutty? People are getting slaughtered left and right the entire game, and some of them are more innocent than Elthina.

In short: yes. I'm pretty sure that's it.

I think it's the exploding thing, as well, though I doubt the reaction would have been as strong as it was now had it been Hawke planting the bombs...

But oh boy, if you the story involves anything resembling 9/11, no matter how different scenario etc. you'll get people raging with white hot hatred. Knee-jerk reaction that blinds many people to a lot of the other aspects. Not just in DA2, mind.

I guess that's why I see it differently. I went to college a few blocks from where this happened. I think on what life was like that day for all us students instead of immediately thinking of 9/11. That day was tragic, but it was not the same thing. So yeah, I'm able to disconnent it from 9/11.