57020 réponses à ce sujet

[SurelyForth]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
I think the major issue was the eternal nagging of mage-opression.
That grated on even my nerves!
Come on! It's not like everywhere is Kirkwall, Anders! (As Carver said: "I don't hate you because you're a mage, I hate you because you won't shut up about it!")

How much of this is Justice? Or did Anders just conceal a lot of this in Awakening?

I just want to give him his cat and take him back to Amaranthine. is that too much to ask Bioware!?

The Warden can ask him if he talks about the mage thing all the time. To which he replies something along the lines of "not when I'm eating, or during sex. I'm not a monster."

It has always been a huge part of his personality and something that he mentions in almost all of his conversations with the Warden (mages/the Chantry/and his desire for freedom being all tied up in the same issue).

Modifié par SurelyForth, 12 avril 2011 - 02:35 .

[nekhbet]

silver-crescent wrote...

His comments like "there's nothing you could tell me that I haven't told myself already", or "thank you for sparing my life, I'll try not to make such a mess of it this time", "this is not what I had expected" or the whole final dialogue certainly seemed sane to me. Did Justice change him? Yes. Is "old" Anders still there? Yes, especially apparent if you romance him. Is he bat**** crazy? I don't really think so to be honest. Not the most healthy person in Thedas of course, but he's no Meredith/Orsino either.

I guess we're getting into the territory of semantics now, what counts as "bat**** crazy" etc... He certainly displays enough traits of psychotic manic-depression (wild mood swings, delusions, grandeur, extreme anxiety), he's suicidal and codependent, and is frighteningly close to split personality even without Justice coming out (says one thing first and another next). But he also has a lot of lucid moments, he's not a raging lunatic by any means. Actually, he's quite lucid most of the time especially in acts I and II. It's in Act III that his convos begin to change for real. 

That's the fantastic part, IMO, because he's not the stereotypical raging lunatic. He's a realistic crazy, because he doesn't always seem crazy.

I guess I pay extra attention to this bit about Anders, cuz I've had to deal with bipolar relatives. I'm impressed to see it in a game, in a shape that feels familiar.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Camilladilla wrote...

SidheKate wrote...

Loaded question: Why is it okay for Shepard to kill 300k innocent people to delay the inevitable attack, but Anders is a terrorist for killing about a dozen innocent people in the hopes of actually saving people? Is it because the player gets to do it? It isn't like there is a choice, it is mission failure if you don't - but because an NPC does it in DA, then it is endless hate and rage from some people? I'm still not saying Anders was right or wrong, and I totally expect people to come to their own conclusions, but why hate him?

Shepard's situation was a needs of the many situation. While Anders wanted to incite what would essentially be chaos.

Also, just judging by the forums, Anders had a lot stacked against him already before the game came out. The chantry jenga was just the last straw (OHOHOHO) or a convenient excuse for people to vilify him for other reasons.

I think the major issue was the eternal nagging of mage-opression.
That grated on even my nerves!
Come on! It's not like everywhere is Kirkwall, Anders! (As Carver said: "I don't hate you because you're a mage, I hate you because you won't shut up about it!")

How much of this is Justice? Or did Anders just conceal a lot of this in Awakening?

I just want to give him his cat and take him back to Amaranthine. is that too much to ask Bioware!?

It's not like Kirkwall everywhere, but these facts still remain:

1) Mages are still taken from their families,
2) Mages are still told they are curses from the Maker,
3) Mages are not allowed to have families of their own,
4) Mages are not allowed to live outside the Tower, unless made Tranquil or a Grey Warden,
5) Every mage must face a Harrowing, or else be made Tranquil,
6) There is always the threat that the Templars/Chantry could decide a Circle is too fargone and everyone there is wiped out, no pardons or parole.

That's oppression; it does not matter whether a Mage has come to terms with this or not.   Anders just harped about it to people who had never lived in the Circle before, and thus he gets those reactions from people like Carver and etc.  Hawke has absolutely no idea what the Circle is like, and so we often get unreliable opinions.

[ReallyRue]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Camilladilla wrote...

SidheKate wrote...

Loaded question: Why is it okay for Shepard to kill 300k innocent people to delay the inevitable attack, but Anders is a terrorist for killing about a dozen innocent people in the hopes of actually saving people? Is it because the player gets to do it? It isn't like there is a choice, it is mission failure if you don't - but because an NPC does it in DA, then it is endless hate and rage from some people? I'm still not saying Anders was right or wrong, and I totally expect people to come to their own conclusions, but why hate him?

Shepard's situation was a needs of the many situation. While Anders wanted to incite what would essentially be chaos.

Also, just judging by the forums, Anders had a lot stacked against him already before the game came out. The chantry jenga was just the last straw (OHOHOHO) or a convenient excuse for people to vilify him for other reasons.

I think the major issue was the eternal nagging of mage-opression.
That grated on even my nerves!
Come on! It's not like everywhere is Kirkwall, Anders! (As Carver said: "I don't hate you because you're a mage, I hate you because you won't shut up about it!")

How much of this is Justice? Or did Anders just conceal a lot of this in Awakening?

I just want to give him his cat and take him back to Amaranthine. is that too much to ask Bioware!?

I thought he actually did go on about the mage/Templar/Chantry thing a lot in Awakening, but the difference was that it was mainly humorous and light-hearted, so it wasn't as wearing. It didn't feel like being bludgeoned with a Sword of Mercy or something.

[Mistress Tasharra]

SurelyForth wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
I think the major issue was the eternal nagging of mage-opression.
That grated on even my nerves!
Come on! It's not like everywhere is Kirkwall, Anders! (As Carver said: "I don't hate you because you're a mage, I hate you because you won't shut up about it!")

How much of this is Justice? Or did Anders just conceal a lot of this in Awakening?

I just want to give him his cat and take him back to Amaranthine. is that too much to ask Bioware!?

The Warden can ask him if he talks about the mage thing all the time. To which he replies something along the lines of "not when I'm eating, or during sex. I'm not a monster."

It has always been a huge part of his personality and something that he mentions in almost all of his conversations with the Warden (mages/the Chantry/and his desire for freedom being all tied up in the same issue).

I've wanted to go back and play Awakening, but everytime I load it up I get some Anders banter, or an Anders conversation and all I can hear is:

"TROLOLOLO Forshadowing! Hahahahaha!"

=.=

[SidheKate]

Camilladilla wrote...

Shepard's situation was a needs of the many situation. While Anders wanted to incite what would essentially be chaos.

Also, just judging by the forums, Anders had a lot stacked against him already before the game came out. The chantry jenga was just the last straw (OHOHOHO) or a convenient excuse for people to vilify him for other reasons.

But he didn't do it to incite chaos, he was trying to start a rebellion to free the mages.   And that was awesome what you did there.  It really was the last straw.  

You're probably right, people saw Anders one way and got mad that he wasn't that way.  I just can never fathom a viseral reaction that endures/persists like the rage against this character.  Maybe I've just never managed to hate a fictional person?

[Rinji the Bearded]

ReallyRue wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Camilladilla wrote...

SidheKate wrote...

Loaded question: Why is it okay for Shepard to kill 300k innocent people to delay the inevitable attack, but Anders is a terrorist for killing about a dozen innocent people in the hopes of actually saving people? Is it because the player gets to do it? It isn't like there is a choice, it is mission failure if you don't - but because an NPC does it in DA, then it is endless hate and rage from some people? I'm still not saying Anders was right or wrong, and I totally expect people to come to their own conclusions, but why hate him?

Shepard's situation was a needs of the many situation. While Anders wanted to incite what would essentially be chaos.

Also, just judging by the forums, Anders had a lot stacked against him already before the game came out. The chantry jenga was just the last straw (OHOHOHO) or a convenient excuse for people to vilify him for other reasons.

I think the major issue was the eternal nagging of mage-opression.
That grated on even my nerves!
Come on! It's not like everywhere is Kirkwall, Anders! (As Carver said: "I don't hate you because you're a mage, I hate you because you won't shut up about it!")

How much of this is Justice? Or did Anders just conceal a lot of this in Awakening?

I just want to give him his cat and take him back to Amaranthine. is that too much to ask Bioware!?

I thought he actually did go on about the mage/Templar/Chantry thing a lot in Awakening, but the difference was that it was mainly humorous and light-hearted, so it wasn't as wearing. It didn't feel like being bludgeoned with a Sword of Mercy or something.

Humor is a wonderful coping mechanism that probably lost its effect after his experience with the Wardens.  I'd be pretty ticked off and desperate, too.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

sassperella wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Camilladilla wrote...

SidheKate wrote...

Loaded question: Why is it okay for Shepard to kill 300k innocent people to delay the inevitable attack, but Anders is a terrorist for killing about a dozen innocent people in the hopes of actually saving people? Is it because the player gets to do it? It isn't like there is a choice, it is mission failure if you don't - but because an NPC does it in DA, then it is endless hate and rage from some people? I'm still not saying Anders was right or wrong, and I totally expect people to come to their own conclusions, but why hate him?

Shepard's situation was a needs of the many situation. While Anders wanted to incite what would essentially be chaos.

Also, just judging by the forums, Anders had a lot stacked against him already before the game came out. The chantry jenga was just the last straw (OHOHOHO) or a convenient excuse for people to vilify him for other reasons.

I think the major issue was the eternal nagging of mage-opression.
That grated on even my nerves!
Come on! It's not like everywhere is Kirkwall, Anders! (As Carver said: "I don't hate you because you're a mage, I hate you because you won't shut up about it!")

How much of this is Justice? Or did Anders just conceal a lot of this in Awakening?

I just want to give him his cat and take him back to Amaranthine. is that too much to ask Bioware!?

I wouldn't take him back to Amaranthine if Jennifer Helper's short story is anything to go by. I don't think he'd be welcome.

True... OK.

Step 1) I shall reinstate my Dalish Warden as Commander of the Grey, thus removing all Chantry and other exterior influence* before you can say "GTFO of my Keep NOW!!!"

*Translation: Any opinion that is not her own, or the unbiased, sensible opinion of a friend**

**Which rules out  Justice, Oghren and Anders immediately.

How many of the original companions would have stayed after the Warden left, I wonder?

[YamiSnuffles]

So hard to keep up! D:

I don't know who would win in a fight between my canon Hawke and my Cousland Warden. They are really similar. Cousland would have speed since she was a DW warrior, but Hawke would have more power to go with every blow as a 2H warrior. As far as specs, though, Cousland might win. She was a Berserker, Champion, Spirit Warrior. Whereas I only ever specced Hawke as a Berserker and then built up her stamina etc.

So, to go all Garrus on this situation, Hawke has reach but Cousland has flexibility? :3

I have no doubt that Anders would side with my Hawke, though. Cousland might have been his best buddy at one point, given him Pounce, and was good friends with Justice, but Hawke was so much more. She was fighting at Anders' side the entire time. At times she was as obnoxiously pro-mage as he was. So she was a friend, lover, and partner in their shared fight.

[Sialater]

Mistress Tasharra wrote...

nekhbet wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Honestly I think Anders's mental health, or lack thereof, by end of the game was left to the player's interpretation.
Was he "shattered, mentally ill and not in control of himself"? I dunno, it certainly didn't feel that way in my playthroughs, especially when taking the friendship route. 

It's heavily implied in codex entries and some convos he's basically bat**** crazy at the end, either by being warped deeper together with Justice on the friendship route (changing his personality and making him single-minded), or slowly losing control of his body to Justice on the rivalry route (blackouts, split personality). It's far more visible in the rivalry route, though. The friendship insanity kinda creeps on you, because you Hawke are the enabler.

And I think that's something that adds to the tragic factor, especially if you romanced Anders.

Regardless of what Hawke does, doesn't do, or say, s/he is going to lose Anders by Act III.

It doesn't matter if you kill him or let him live, if you're on the friendship or rivalry path. Hawke always loses Anders to Justice, either through a forceful takeover, or worse, by allowing them to merge further.

As much as I enjoy the frienship path, knowing that Hawke allowed it, knowingly allowed it to happen is... heartbreaking.

See, the problem with that is that Anders can't fight forever.  And they can't be separated without killing one or both of them.  It's better, in the long run, that they quit fighting so hard against each other and come to some sort of accord, or Anders will lose to J/V.    The Chantry blowing up on the Rivalry path is exhibit "A" for that.  He can only control J/V by compromising with his passenger. 

The real Anders' days were numbered the second he agreed to let Justice in.  The lack of struggle on the friendship path makes Anders seem as if he's giving in quietly.  I don't think so, considering if you keep playing a smart-ass/paragon Hawke, who romances him, most of his ****iness doesn't come to the surface and his sense of humor is still evident -- until he emotionally blackmails you, that is.  I think it's more as if they come to some sort of Hawke-aided truce, allowing a third, hybrid personality to be born.  Anders (and Justice) was already dead, for the most part.  He just hadn't admitted it yet.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

My Mahariel has major spell resistance, three very unique weapons (before the crows nicked one anyway...), and her Warden-abilities with the taint poision and the speed (not to mention, she's a pretty heavy hitter).

Hawke has low constitution, and her usual tactics of glyphs and large area spells probably won't work so well... (what RL consequences would using blood magic on tainted blood have, I wonder...?)

The problem is, Anders probably knows he couldn't win against either, and Hawke won't win.
Plus justice doesn't like Hawke, but has 100 approval for the Warden, causing a little interior conflict.

Diplomacy or die, is probably the term for such a sitation.

[YamiSnuffles]

Sialater wrote...

See, the problem with that is that Anders can't fight forever.  And they can't be separated without killing one or both of them.  It's better, in the long run, that they quit fighting so hard against each other and come to some sort of accord, or Anders will lose to J/V.    The Chantry blowing up on the Rivalry path is exhibit "A" for that.  He can only control J/V by compromising with his passenger. 

The real Anders' days were numbered the second he agreed to let Justice in.  The lack of struggle on the friendship path makes Anders seem as if he's giving in quietly.  I don't think so, considering if you keep playing a smart-ass/paragon Hawke, who romances him, most of his ****iness doesn't come to the surface and his sense of humor is still evident -- until he emotionally blackmails you, that is.  I think it's more as if they come to some sort of Hawke-aided truce, allowing a third, hybrid personality to be born.  Anders (and Justice) was already dead, for the most part.  He just hadn't admitted it yet.

Yeah, this is about exactly as I saw it. Both Justice and Anders were forever changed when they merged, no matter what path you take. They have become something new. They can either fight it or embrace it.

Modifié par YamiSnuffles, 12 avril 2011 - 02:59 .

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Sialater wrote...

Mistress Tasharra wrote...

nekhbet wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Honestly I think Anders's mental health, or lack thereof, by end of the game was left to the player's interpretation.
Was he "shattered, mentally ill and not in control of himself"? I dunno, it certainly didn't feel that way in my playthroughs, especially when taking the friendship route. 

It's heavily implied in codex entries and some convos he's basically bat**** crazy at the end, either by being warped deeper together with Justice on the friendship route (changing his personality and making him single-minded), or slowly losing control of his body to Justice on the rivalry route (blackouts, split personality). It's far more visible in the rivalry route, though. The friendship insanity kinda creeps on you, because you Hawke are the enabler.

And I think that's something that adds to the tragic factor, especially if you romanced Anders.

Regardless of what Hawke does, doesn't do, or say, s/he is going to lose Anders by Act III.

It doesn't matter if you kill him or let him live, if you're on the friendship or rivalry path. Hawke always loses Anders to Justice, either through a forceful takeover, or worse, by allowing them to merge further.

As much as I enjoy the frienship path, knowing that Hawke allowed it, knowingly allowed it to happen is... heartbreaking.

See, the problem with that is that Anders can't fight forever.  And they can't be separated without killing one or both of them.  It's better, in the long run, that they quit fighting so hard against each other and come to some sort of accord, or Anders will lose to J/V.    The Chantry blowing up on the Rivalry path is exhibit "A" for that.  He can only control J/V by compromising with his passenger. 

The real Anders' days were numbered the second he agreed to let Justice in.  The lack of struggle on the friendship path makes Anders seem as if he's giving in quietly.  I don't think so, considering if you keep playing a smart-ass/paragon Hawke, who romances him, most of his ****iness doesn't come to the surface and his sense of humor is still evident -- until he emotionally blackmails you, that is.  I think it's more as if they come to some sort of Hawke-aided truce, allowing a third, hybrid personality to be born.  Anders (and Justice) was already dead, for the most part.  He just hadn't admitted it yet.

I predict a Romeo and Juliette ending for Hawke and Anders.

[Heidenreich]

Oh Ihate you folks so much. Now I must farther procrastinate stage 3 of spring cleaning to write a re-write of the King Alistair scene to include my Cousland and Anders.

Thx for that

[SurelyForth]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

My Mahariel has major spell resistance, three very unique weapons (before the crows nicked one anyway...), and her Warden-abilities with the taint poision and the speed (not to mention, she's a pretty heavy hitter).

Hawke has low constitution, and her usual tactics of glyphs and large area spells probably won't work so well... (what RL consequences would using blood magic on tainted blood have, I wonder...?)

The problem is, Anders probably knows he couldn't win against either, and Hawke won't win.
Plus justice doesn't like Hawke, but has 100 approval for the Warden, causing a little interior conflict.

Diplomacy or die, is probably the term for such a sitation.

There is that.

Of course, this is all moot for me since I'm pretty sure my canon Warden and my canon Hawke would rather sleep together than fight. So diplomacy for them, all around! And Alistair and Anders can hang out and be awkward for awhile.

[Dasha Dreyson]

Between my Hawke and my mage Warden, my Warden would win. If Anders made it two against one, my Hawke would win. Anders would side with my Hawke every time because my Warden was a circle mage. She believed in making the circle strong and showing its ability to police itself as a way to tone down templar oversight. She had originally been upset with Irving, but later understood why he did what he did. She was against extreme actions as she thought it punished those who were trying to be better than the current law. She was also an elf, and not an Amell.

I think my Cousland Warden would have been much more understanding as well as seeing the past as being in the past. She also seemed to think that there was hidden good in questionable decisions. She would have also felt partly guilty for Anders's actions, since she would have felt like she hadn't been there enough for him.

[silver-crescent]

nekhbet wrote...

I guess we're getting into the territory of semantics now, what counts as "bat**** crazy" etc... He certainly displays enough traits of psychotic manic-depression (wild mood swings, delusions, grandeur, extreme anxiety), he's suicidal and codependent, and is frighteningly close to split personality even without Justice coming out (says one thing first and another next). But he also has a lot of lucid moments, he's not a raging lunatic by any means. Actually, he's quite lucid most of the time especially in acts I and II. It's in Act III that his convos begin to change for real. 

That's the fantastic part, IMO, because he's not the stereotypical raging lunatic. He's a realistic crazy, because he doesn't always seem crazy.

I guess I pay extra attention to this bit about Anders, cuz I've had to deal with bipolar relatives. I'm impressed to see it in a game, in a shape that feels familiar.

I do agree with you in general, though I didn't really see some of the traits you're naming - especially him being suicidal/almost having a split personality - on the friendship path at least. Didn't notice that big a difference from act 2 to 3 either truth be told, save for what the codex said.

And my original point anyway was that we don't know how his situation progresses post-Jenga, there's no clear ingame indication either way. Of course it's possible to make real world parallels, but the truth is real world psychological issues don't involve spiritual/demonic possession.

[Dasha Dreyson]

SurelyForth wrote...

Of course, this is all moot for me since I'm pretty sure my canon Warden and my canon Hawke would rather sleep together than fight. So diplomacy for them, all around! And Alistair and Anders can hang out and be awkward for awhile.

... with Isabela (sorry had to add a fortune cookie variant in there).

[Thiefy]

wanted to share this, dont know if this has been posted yet



source

[silver-crescent]

Sialater wrote...

The real Anders' days were numbered the second he agreed to let Justice in.  The lack of struggle on the friendship path makes Anders seem as if he's giving in quietly.  I don't think so, considering if you keep playing a smart-ass/paragon Hawke, who romances him, most of his ****iness doesn't come to the surface and his sense of humor is still evident -- until he emotionally blackmails you, that is.  I think it's more as if they come to some sort of Hawke-aided truce, allowing a third, hybrid personality to be born.  Anders (and Justice) was already dead, for the most part.  He just hadn't admitted it yet.

Yeah that's probably right. But Anders does admit it more or less. Justice is no more, he and I are one and whatnot, and that whole thing about if you remove Justice and the templars, what else of him would be left.

[SurelyForth]

Re: Suicidal

While Anders' behavior in Act 3 SCREAMS suicidal, I sorta think that was misdirection. While he does expect to die for what he does, he is not motivated to act for that reason. Being accepting of one's probably inevitable death is different from being suicidal.

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Of course, this is all moot for me since I'm pretty sure my canon Warden and my canon Hawke would rather sleep together than fight. So diplomacy for them, all around! And Alistair and Anders can hang out and be awkward for awhile.

... with Isabela (sorry had to add a fortune cookie variant in there).

Isabela can run (sexy) interference with both.

I just realized that if I pretend that Cousland/Anders were hooking up, that means that Hawke and Cousland have two lovers in common. Thedas: Not a Huge ****ing Dating Pool.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 12 avril 2011 - 03:09 .

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

SurelyForth wrote...

Of course, this is all moot for me since I'm pretty sure my canon Warden and my canon Hawke would rather sleep together than fight. So diplomacy for them, all around! And Alistair and Anders can hang out and be awkward for awhile.

After the big misunderstanding of: "You murdered the Keeper!" is out of the way, I don't doubt Saeria would bereceptive to... negotiations if she was in the mood. That is to say, drunk. Both of them.

Anders will probably be in the Hanged Man, complaining to an exiled Alistair about how Justice never lets him drink alcohol anymore, and then they can b*ch about Oghren's drinking habits all night. XD

[Mistress Tasharra]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Mistress Tasharra wrote...

nekhbet wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Honestly I think Anders's mental health, or lack thereof, by end of the game was left to the player's interpretation.
Was he "shattered, mentally ill and not in control of himself"? I dunno, it certainly didn't feel that way in my playthroughs, especially when taking the friendship route. 

It's heavily implied in codex entries and some convos he's basically bat**** crazy at the end, either by being warped deeper together with Justice on the friendship route (changing his personality and making him single-minded), or slowly losing control of his body to Justice on the rivalry route (blackouts, split personality). It's far more visible in the rivalry route, though. The friendship insanity kinda creeps on you, because you Hawke are the enabler.

And I think that's something that adds to the tragic factor, especially if you romanced Anders.

Regardless of what Hawke does, doesn't do, or say, s/he is going to lose Anders by Act III.

It doesn't matter if you kill him or let him live, if you're on the friendship or rivalry path. Hawke always loses Anders to Justice, either through a forceful takeover, or worse, by allowing them to merge further.

As much as I enjoy the frienship path, knowing that Hawke allowed it, knowingly allowed it to happen is... heartbreaking.

See, the problem with that is that Anders can't fight forever.  And they can't be separated without killing one or both of them.  It's better, in the long run, that they quit fighting so hard against each other and come to some sort of accord, or Anders will lose to J/V.    The Chantry blowing up on the Rivalry path is exhibit "A" for that.  He can only control J/V by compromising with his passenger. 

The real Anders' days were numbered the second he agreed to let Justice in.  The lack of struggle on the friendship path makes Anders seem as if he's giving in quietly.  I don't think so, considering if you keep playing a smart-ass/paragon Hawke, who romances him, most of his ****iness doesn't come to the surface and his sense of humor is still evident -- until he emotionally blackmails you, that is.  I think it's more as if they come to some sort of Hawke-aided truce, allowing a third, hybrid personality to be born.  Anders (and Justice) was already dead, for the most part.  He just hadn't admitted it yet.

I predict a Romeo and Juliette ending for Hawke and Anders.

I think someone already mentioned this earlier (can't recall who) but I know in my heart that, even if Hawke ran off with Anders at the end of DAII, their love was doomed from the start.

It's going to be a short life, brutal and tiring, and it will end tragically, but by the Maker it will be glorious while it lasts.

You have to ask, just how much left of the Anders Hawke fell in love with is left by the time Act III ends? How much was ever there?

Ugh. I hate love hate love hate tragic, doomed love.

[silver-crescent]

SurelyForth wrote...

Re: Suicidal

While Anders' behavior in Act 3 SCREAMS suicidal, I sorta think that was misdirection. While he does expect to die for what he does, he is not motivated to act for that reason. Being accepting of one's probably inevitable death is different from being suicidal.

Exactly. He expects to die, he doesn't want it. He even thanks Hawke if he/she spares him, and he seems genuinelly grateful.

[silver-crescent]

Mistress Tasharra wrote...

I think someone already mentioned this earlier (can't recall who) but I know in my heart that, even if Hawke ran off with Anders at the end of DAII, their love was doomed from the start.

It's going to be a short life, brutal and tiring, and it will end tragically, but by the Maker it will be glorious while it lasts.

You have to ask, just how much left of the Anders Hawke fell in love with is left by the time Act III ends? How much was ever there?

Ugh. I hate love hate love hate tragic, doomed love.

Thing is Hawke never knew pre-Justice Anders. It would have been more tragic had they met in Amaranthine or something. This way, I dunno, I think Hawke knew what (s)he was getting into.

Modifié par silver-crescent, 12 avril 2011 - 03:18 .