57020 réponses à ce sujet

[silver-crescent]

Ryzaki wrote...

Batteries wrote...
But Anders is a Warden too.

Oh gah. I tend to forget about Anders being a Warden. Then I guess the only thing poor Alistair has going for him is his more muscular bod. And his ability to act like an overexcited puppy. 

It is easy to forget Anders is a Warden yeah. It never actually gets mentioned after act 1 I think.

[Sialater]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Hey, there might have been virginal fumbling in the beginning, but then you also had the opportunity to train him up right! 

This.

However, Anders still wins because...sparklefingers.

But Alistair is athletic...that's always nice.

Is it possible to ah... "corrupt" Alistair? 


Because I'd quite like both, really. For science, or course. 

Yes.  You harden him.  You can even have a threesome with Izzy with him. 

But last I checked, Alistair was totally straight...

...hmm...

Maybe that needs to change...

Oh, sorry, romanced female Warden can have a threesome with Izzy.  Strangely, Zev backs out if Al's around.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Yenaquai wrote...

Threeparts wrote...


I'd definitely pick Anders straight up. Sure, he's a mess by the end, but he's a mature man by the time you meet him, with his own life, goals, opinions, and job. He's willing to argue with Hawke, he will break up with you if you do something that goes against his principles, and he stands up for himself.

I like Alistair, but he was just kind of floating along, living the life that had been handed to him. He is, as he says, a follower, and he never really seems to make his own decisions or choose something for himself until the various Landsmeet outcomes. The awkward Persuasion/Intimidation checks make him seem easily swayed by the Warden's opinions and willing to go along with just about anything you choose to do.

Anders felt like a whole, complex person, but Alistair's sweetness didn't stop me from feeling that he was just waiting for the Warden to "complete" him.

Each to their own, of course (and I'm courting Alistair in the game I have open right now), but I know which I'd snap up. 

I agree with you here. Alistair seems to lack... personality wise. At least I feel that way. He seems to fall so easily into the role of a follower and the easy going friendly guy, there's barely any tension and he can be so easily persuaded that any potential of tension ist negated. - Except for the one occasion of the landsmeet. (But personally I think that revealed his selfishness, naivety and shortsightedness, as he left the only remaining fereldan Grey Warden right before the final battle with the Archdemon, running away from all responsibilty, - And that while he was completely furious, without hearing HER explanation of the reasoning behind it)

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Alistair. He's fun and he's amusing and entertaining for a time, but I personally miss a true development of character, a true complexity.
I guess a big part of my personal opinion is the lack of responsiveness from the companions to the current events. I don't feel like they truly have an opinion on what's going on, they just tag along and tell you about their lives and history, which can be fun, but does not work very well if you try to develop a character.


So... what I want to say is that I like the DA2 version of Anders a lot more than Alistair in DA:O because I feel that he has a strong connection to the events around him, that they shape him and his opinions, that your actions can influence him as well, and that he changes as time progesses.
Plus his overall character is complex and human, while Alistair felt - after several attempted playthroughs and thinking - shallow and artificial in the end.
[s[And I have a huge soft spot for  lean sexy hobo - looking guys that think revolutionary/out of the ordinary and write manifestos. [/s]


BTW: By that I really don't want to insult any Alistair-fans. - Its just my personal view of him and I really don't dislike him as a character.

Have you been reading my mind? 

[SurelyForth]

Ryzaki wrote...

I think the problem with always king alistair is that I believe he had no dialogue recorded for *not* being king. (other than a few lines).

They had enough to have done something with it. The only glaring omission is if you ask him where the relationship is going if he's not king. Otherwise, I don't think modders had to do too much outside of fixing flags for him post-Landsmeet.

And something similar may be an issue for the Anders rival ending, since the canned endings that exist don't really work with Viscount Hawke and him still being together after the end game.

[Rinji the Bearded]

AnniLau wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

And that kiss. I think I'll go watch it again...

Adam says he was just kissing the back of his own hand for that.

He must have a very sexy hand to love it so passionately.

Apparently so.

I'd still hit it.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Sialater wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Hey, there might have been virginal fumbling in the beginning, but then you also had the opportunity to train him up right! 

This.

However, Anders still wins because...sparklefingers.

But Alistair is athletic...that's always nice.

Is it possible to ah... "corrupt" Alistair? 


Because I'd quite like both, really. For science, or course. 

Yes.  You harden him.  You can even have a threesome with Izzy with him. 

But last I checked, Alistair was totally straight...

...hmm...

Maybe that needs to change...

Oh, sorry, romanced female Warden can have a threesome with Izzy.  Strangely, Zev backs out if Al's around.

Perhaps Alistair is one of those extremely rare cases where he is not Zev's type?
I mean, the man can take a death-threat as an invite!

If all else fails, Hawke has blood magic, and Anders can have a few drinks...

[Ryzaki]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I think the problem with always king alistair is that I believe he had no dialogue recorded for *not* being king. (other than a few lines).

They had enough to have done something with it. The only glaring omission is if you ask him where the relationship is going if he's not king. Otherwise, I don't think modders had to do too much outside of fixing flags for him post-Landsmeet.

And something similar may be an issue for the Anders rival ending, since the canned endings that exist don't really work with Viscount Hawke and him still being together after the end game.

Actually there are glaring isues during the Archedemon killing as well. 

And which would look better? Wrong dialogue being voiced or proper dialogue with no one saying anything? I'd go with the former every time. 

I have the mods that fix him. He always refers to himself as king during the archedemon battle and when I talk to him for Morri's ritual. (Which is extremely jarring and facepalm worthy when he's not king). 

Anders may be executed though. He doesn't seem to expect to live long. 

And why is the rivarly dialogue where you kill him not firing? That makes perfect sense ingame. 

And Hepler's response to me soldifies it. Why would she expect it to be in the final game if it it wasn't? She most likely doesn't work in a void. 

Doesn't help that I get all the dialogue leading up to it and it just shrivels up and dies. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 05:41 .

[Sialater]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Oh, sorry, romanced female Warden can have a threesome with Izzy.  Strangely, Zev backs out if Al's around.

Perhaps Alistair is one of those extremely rare cases where he is not Zev's type?
I mean, the man can take a death-threat as an invite!

If all else fails, Hawke has blood magic, and Anders can have a few drinks...

I think it's more that Zev's in love with The Warden no matter what and Alistair's breaking his heart  -- I'm of the opinion that some of those dialogs are Zev flirting a little with our virginal ex-Templar.  Alistair won't kiss you if Zev's in your party either.  Such gentlemen, those two!

Such a contrast with the dog and cat fights we get in DA2.

[nekhbet]

leggywillow wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

And that kiss. I think I'll go watch it again...

Adam says he was just kissing the back of his own hand for that.

Oh ssshhh!  That kiss is the sexiest thing in the history of videogames, don't go messing it up!

Doesn't matter how it was done, it's the result that counts. And yeah, that's really a new high standard for videogame kissing set right there. I daresay you don't see that very often in movies with real actors, either...

[Dasha Dreyson]

Adam Howden needs come back and do more romance voice work... THE ORDER DICTATES!!

My husband looks like Carth Onasi but with black hair.

I think Isabela suppose to be good at reading faces (at least in DAO) and that's why Zev and Ali don't get asked at the same time?

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Ryzaki wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I think the problem with always king alistair is that I believe he had no dialogue recorded for *not* being king. (other than a few lines).

They had enough to have done something with it. The only glaring omission is if you ask him where the relationship is going if he's not king. Otherwise, I don't think modders had to do too much outside of fixing flags for him post-Landsmeet.

And something similar may be an issue for the Anders rival ending, since the canned endings that exist don't really work with Viscount Hawke and him still being together after the end game.

Actually there are glaring isues during the Archedemon killing as well. 

And which would look better? Wrong dialogue being voiced or proper dialogue with no one saying anything? I'd go with the former every time. 

I have the mods that fix him. He always refers to himself as king during the archedemon battle and when I talk to him for Morri's ritual. (Which is extremely jarring and facepalm worthy when he's not king). 

Anders may be executed though. He doesn't seem to expect to live long. 

And Hepler's response to me soldifies it. Why would she expect it to be in the final game if it it wasn't? She most likely doesn't work in a void. 

Doesn't help that I get all the dialogue leading up to it and it just shrivels up and dies. 

If Anders gets executed, Hawke is going to join forces with Justice, and turn into a psychotic mass-murduring force of pure vengeance, and Kikwall will drown in blood!!!!!!

This is my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[SurelyForth]

Ryzaki wrote...
Actually there are glaring isues during the Archedemon killing as well. 

And which would look better? Wrong dialogue being voiced or proper dialogue with no one saying anything? I'd go with the former every time. 

I have the mods that fix him. He always refers to himself as king during the archedemon battle and when I talk to him for Morri's ritual. (Which is extremely jarring and facepalm worthy when he's not king). 

Anders may be executed though. He doesn't seem to expect to live long. 

And Hepler's response to me soldifies it. Why would she expect it to be in the final game if it it wasn't? She most likely doesn't work in a void. 

Doesn't help that I get all the dialogue leading up to it and it just shrivels up and dies. 

I forgot the Archdemon but.

She might not work in a vacuum, but she's also working on another project now and might not have been involved in final stage tweaking of the game. If David Gaider had confirmed it was supposed to be in, I wouldn't question it at all since he's the head writer. But he hasn't and, until it's there, *shrug*. And, like I said, if they don't have an ending that makes sense with having him side with the templars it might be like Always King Alistair all over again. It's something that "exists" but that they'll leave for modders to fix since it sorta breaks the game in a different way.

[Ryzaki]

SurelyForth wrote...
I forgot the Archdemon but.

She might not work in a vacuum, but she's also working on another project now and might not have been involved in final stage tweaking of the game. If David Gaider had confirmed it was supposed to be in, I wouldn't question it at all since he's the head writer. But he hasn't and, until it's there, *shrug*. And, like I said, if they don't have an ending that makes sense with having him side with the templars it might be like Always King Alistair all over again. It's something that "exists" but that they'll leave for modders to fix since it sorta breaks the game in a different way.

I would actually like to see the ending before saying it breaks or doesn't break the game. 

Anyways hopefully it'll be fixed in the next patch. It's ridculous they didn't leave it in. It makes my whole rivalrymance seem pointless. 

As for needing Gaider to confirm it. Eh. Kirby confirms things all the time. I don't think her word is lesser. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 05:48 .

[SurelyForth]

Sialater wrote...
I think it's more that Zev's in love with The Warden no matter what and Alistair's breaking his heart  -- I'm of the opinion that some of those dialogs are Zev flirting a little with our virginal ex-Templar.  Alistair won't kiss you if Zev's in your party either.  Such gentlemen, those two!

Such a contrast with the dog and cat fights we get in DA2.

Yes he will? He just won't kiss you if Zev or Leliana objects, which they only do if you've turned on the romance. Otherwise, it's kissing on and Zevran chuckles about it.

Ryzaki wrote...

I would actually like to see the ending before saying it breaks or doesn't break the game. 

Anyways hopefully it'll be fixed in the next patch. It's ridculous they didn't leave it in. It makes my whole rivalrymance seem pointless. 

I, for one, can't see how they can support an ending with Viscount Hawke and Anders still alive and by his/her side. It makes no sense given the lore and the events of the endgame, and even Anders hints in the dialogue at the Gallows that he doesn't want to live past the Annulment. If they want that ending to make any sense at all, it seems like Varric would have to address what happens to Anders beyond "he stayed with Hawke."

I'm not even talking about my other issues with him siding with the templars, just the complete and total ridiculousness that he could get away with what he did and continue to live, unpunished, as the Viscount's love slave or whatever.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 12 avril 2011 - 05:52 .

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Sialater wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Oh, sorry, romanced female Warden can have a threesome with Izzy.  Strangely, Zev backs out if Al's around.

Perhaps Alistair is one of those extremely rare cases where he is not Zev's type?
I mean, the man can take a death-threat as an invite!

If all else fails, Hawke has blood magic, and Anders can have a few drinks...

I think it's more that Zev's in love with The Warden no matter what and Alistair's breaking his heart  -- I'm of the opinion that some of those dialogs are Zev flirting a little with our virginal ex-Templar.  Alistair won't kiss you if Zev's in your party either.  Such gentlemen, those two!

Such a contrast with the dog and cat fights we get in DA2.

And that's why in my head-canon, all the Warden Origins are present.
Alistair goes with Mahariel (until she choses her duty as a Grey Warden over her feelings for him and he has a hissy fit and leaves).
And Zev goes with Surana, and all the while, Zev can have fun pointing out the fact that he is a mage with "a big sword" (no, not like that, pervs! XD)

There were not enough dramatic cat-fights! <_<

Contrast, DA and DA2 go well together in the same sentence, no?

[nyxocity]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Actually there are glaring isues during the Archedemon killing as well. 

And which would look better? Wrong dialogue being voiced or proper dialogue with no one saying anything? I'd go with the former every time. 

I have the mods that fix him. He always refers to himself as king during the archedemon battle and when I talk to him for Morri's ritual. (Which is extremely jarring and facepalm worthy when he's not king). 

Anders may be executed though. He doesn't seem to expect to live long. 

And Hepler's response to me soldifies it. Why would she expect it to be in the final game if it it wasn't? She most likely doesn't work in a void. 

Doesn't help that I get all the dialogue leading up to it and it just shrivels up and dies. 

I forgot the Archdemon but.

She might not work in a vacuum, but she's also working on another project now and might not have been involved in final stage tweaking of the game. If David Gaider had confirmed it was supposed to be in, I wouldn't question it at all since he's the head writer. But he hasn't and, until it's there, *shrug*. And, like I said, if they don't have an ending that makes sense with having him side with the templars it might be like Always King Alistair all over again. It's something that "exists" but that they'll leave for modders to fix since it sorta breaks the game in a different way.

No offense to the people who want it, but I like to pretend that ending got left out on purpose, because it doesn't make sense. It contradicts every bit of Anders' characterization up to that point. I know by that point in a rivalmance he's broken into pieces, but I still can't ever see him siding with the Templars. That said, I DO think they should come up with a different ending for the rivalmance, just not one where he will ever side with the Templars.

[andrastepreserveme]

shiba5 wrote...

mandamcmoo wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

mandamcmoo wrote...

Camilladilla wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

I think it's sad how a lot of the anti-Anders posts often mention stuff like "and to top it off they made him gay", or something along those lines. As depressing as that is, that aspect is also where a lot of the hate comes from, or at least it adds to it.

The video game nerd mentality these days kinda boggles me. The moment a character becomes even slightly unlikable it's "dude, where's my option to kill him off?".

In fairness though, I'd really like an opportunity to gank Sebastian. What can I say? I'm petty.

I liked the fanfic where Anders/Justice killed him.

Linkmenowplease?

Sorry, was out for awhile.

This one: http://www.fanfictio...565/1/Atonement

Ah yes I know this one! I love Sable's stuff.

[Ryzaki]

I love how the assumptions that the rivalrymance for Anders must end the same way the other romances end.

Even though none of us have seen it yet and some of us have heard the different rivalrymance dialogue for killing him.

Whatever. I'm done arguing about it.

And yes I see it as very petty to not want someone to have an ending because you don't like it. Especially in a video game where you don't have to choose to go through with it. 

Ugh. I'm done. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 05:58 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Anderstians! I need your assistance!

I remember some time ago someone posting screenshots from inside the Gallows where you could clearly see prison doors and what not. Does anyone have those?!

[nyxocity]

SurelyForth wrote...

Sialater wrote...
I think it's more that Zev's in love with The Warden no matter what and Alistair's breaking his heart  -- I'm of the opinion that some of those dialogs are Zev flirting a little with our virginal ex-Templar.  Alistair won't kiss you if Zev's in your party either.  Such gentlemen, those two!

Such a contrast with the dog and cat fights we get in DA2.

Yes he will? He just won't kiss you if Zev or Leliana objects, which they only do if you've turned on the romance. Otherwise, it's kissing on and Zevran chuckles about it.

Ryzaki wrote...

I would actually like to see the ending before saying it breaks or doesn't break the game. 

Anyways hopefully it'll be fixed in the next patch. It's ridculous they didn't leave it in. It makes my whole rivalrymance seem pointless. 

I, for one, can't see how they can support an ending with Viscount Hawke and Anders still alive and by his/her side. It makes no sense given the lore and the events of the endgame, and even Anders hints in the dialogue at the Gallows that he doesn't want to live past the Annulment. If they want that ending to make any sense at all, it seems like Varric would have to address what happens to Anders beyond "he stayed with Hawke."

I'm not even talking about my other issues with him siding with the templars, just the complete and total ridiculousness that he could get away with what he did and continue to live, unpunished, as the Viscount's love slave or whatever.

And this. Especially if your Hawke is a mage, to boot. There's no way they could make that fly. 

[Tasmen]

AnniLau wrote...


Apparently so.

So does not help my mental images of this moment...

[ladyofpayne]

Trololoboning maybe...   Note:  I still don't like Anders and Nate together, but the chance say trololboning was too great to resist.

I go to romance Andrs. RIGHT NOW! 

[Dasha Dreyson]

thenyxie wrote...

And this. Especially if your Hawke is a mage, to boot. There's no way they could make that fly. 

Varric shrugs. "Fortunes change."