57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Kawamura]

Yenaquai wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Yenaquai wrote...
......

Have you been reading my mind? 

I've been known to do that on occasion.

Blood magic!

[SurelyForth]

Ryzaki wrote...

I love how the assumptions that the rivalrymance for Anders must end the same way the other romances end.

Even though none of us have seen it yet and some of us have heard the different rivalrymance dialogue for killing him.

Whatever. I'm done arguing about it.

And yes I see it as very petty to not want someone to have an ending because you don't like it. Especially in a video game where you don't have to choose to go through with it. 

Ugh. I'm done. 

You aren't even paying attention to what I was trying to say, which is that one of the issues is that they might not have an ending specifically FOR a romanced Anders siding with the templars and they'd WANT it to be different.

And I see nothing petty about being annoyed at characterization that flies up in the face of everything we know about said character. Because, once it officially exists, it will become that much harder to argue that Anders is anything more than a straight up killer. The end.

[Rinji the Bearded]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I love how the assumptions that the rivalrymance for Anders must end the same way the other romances end.

Even though none of us have seen it yet and some of us have heard the different rivalrymance dialogue for killing him.

Whatever. I'm done arguing about it.

And yes I see it as very petty to not want someone to have an ending because you don't like it. Especially in a video game where you don't have to choose to go through with it. 

Ugh. I'm done. 

You aren't even paying attention to what I was trying to say, which is that one of the issues is that they might not have an ending specifically FOR a romanced Anders siding with the templars and they'd WANT it to be different.

And I see nothing petty about being annoyed at characterization that flies up in the face of everything we know about said character. Because, once it officially exists, it will become that much harder to argue that Anders is anything more than a straight up killer. The end.

I still can't wrap my head around the Templar-sided ending.  To me, it feels like this:

Hawke>  Anders!  You just proved the mages are dangerous!  HELP ME KILL THEM.

You might as well just kill the poor bastard right there.  IMO, Anders has wronged the mages more than he has Elthina.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 12 avril 2011 - 06:08 .

[Ryzaki]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I love how the assumptions that the rivalrymance for Anders must end the same way the other romances end.

Even though none of us have seen it yet and some of us have heard the different rivalrymance dialogue for killing him.

Whatever. I'm done arguing about it.

And yes I see it as very petty to not want someone to have an ending because you don't like it. Especially in a video game where you don't have to choose to go through with it. 

Ugh. I'm done. 

You aren't even paying attention to what I was trying to say, which is that one of the issues is that they might not have an ending specifically FOR a romanced Anders siding with the templars and they'd WANT it to be different.

And I see nothing petty about being annoyed at characterization that flies up in the face of everything we know about said character. Because, once it officially exists, it will become that much harder to argue that Anders is anything more than a straight up killer. The end.

They might? So you're saying somethings vastly out of character when you have no proof of it being true? The endings are copy pasted. But frankly I doubt the writers would leave such a hole in the story. You're jumping the gun and saying an ending shouldn't be in the game based off a guess. 

And we still don't even know how this occurs. You can't say it "flies up in the face" when you haven't even seen the ending as a whole. 

And Anders is a straight up killer. Regardless of his reason he murdered innocent people and committed an act of terrorism. That doesn't change. No matter how just his reasons he's a murder and a terrorist. 

Add to the fact that it may have not even been Anders on the rivalry path who blew up the Chantry and you get a whole different can of worms. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 06:11 .

[nyxocity]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

And this. Especially if your Hawke is a mage, to boot. There's no way they could make that fly. 

Varric shrugs. "Fortunes change."

I just can't see how they could make that work. Right after anulling the Circle, they're going to make a MAGE Viscount. AND let her apostate lover terrorist who blew up the Chantry and started the war live on at her side. Aside from how preposterous it sounds based on what we've learned in the game so far, I think the Divine might take some issue with that.

I mean, maybe they COULD have, but it would have taken a lot more work and storytelling beyond what we saw. A few minutes of a cut scene doesn't seem like long enough to make it all make sense.

[Sialater]

SurelyForth wrote...

Sialater wrote...
I think it's more that Zev's in love with The Warden no matter what and Alistair's breaking his heart  -- I'm of the opinion that some of those dialogs are Zev flirting a little with our virginal ex-Templar.  Alistair won't kiss you if Zev's in your party either.  Such gentlemen, those two!

Such a contrast with the dog and cat fights we get in DA2.

Yes he will? He just won't kiss you if Zev or Leliana objects, which they only do if you've turned on the romance. Otherwise, it's kissing on and Zevran chuckles about it.

Really?  Zev never said anything in Moira's game when she she tried to kiss Al.  Al just backed away and said something about Zev not appreciating it.  But then, her romances were SO BUGGED.  I couldn't even talk to either of them after Landsmeet without risking breaking up with one or the other.

Emma Cousland didn't romance Zev beyond a one-night stand, so there wasn't that problem.  She kissed Al everywhere.

~weeps for not having that with Anders~

[Sialater]

Ryzaki wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I love how the assumptions that the rivalrymance for Anders must end the same way the other romances end.

Even though none of us have seen it yet and some of us have heard the different rivalrymance dialogue for killing him.

Whatever. I'm done arguing about it.

And yes I see it as very petty to not want someone to have an ending because you don't like it. Especially in a video game where you don't have to choose to go through with it. 

Ugh. I'm done. 

You aren't even paying attention to what I was trying to say, which is that one of the issues is that they might not have an ending specifically FOR a romanced Anders siding with the templars and they'd WANT it to be different.

And I see nothing petty about being annoyed at characterization that flies up in the face of everything we know about said character. Because, once it officially exists, it will become that much harder to argue that Anders is anything more than a straight up killer. The end.

They might? So you're saying somethings vastly out of character when you have no proof of it being true? The endings are copy pasted. But frankly I doubt the writers would leave such a hole in the story. 

And we still don't even know how this occurs. You can't say it "flies up in the face" when you haven't even seen the ending as a whole. 

And Anders is a straight up killer. Regardless of his reason he murdered innocent people and committed an act of terrorism. That doesn't change. 

Add to the fact that it may have not even been Anders on the rivalry path who blew up the Chantry and you get a whole different can of worms. 

I'm with Ryz on this.  On the Rivalry path, they're separated.  Anders realizes how dangerous he himself is.  And by that extension, how dangerous the corrupted Circle Mages are.  He's protecting all of Kirkwall in this ending, not just the mages.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ryzaki wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I love how the assumptions that the rivalrymance for Anders must end the same way the other romances end.

Even though none of us have seen it yet and some of us have heard the different rivalrymance dialogue for killing him.

Whatever. I'm done arguing about it.

And yes I see it as very petty to not want someone to have an ending because you don't like it. Especially in a video game where you don't have to choose to go through with it. 

Ugh. I'm done. 

You aren't even paying attention to what I was trying to say, which is that one of the issues is that they might not have an ending specifically FOR a romanced Anders siding with the templars and they'd WANT it to be different.

And I see nothing petty about being annoyed at characterization that flies up in the face of everything we know about said character. Because, once it officially exists, it will become that much harder to argue that Anders is anything more than a straight up killer. The end.

They might? So you're saying somethings vastly out of character when you have no proof of it being true? The endings are copy pasted. But frankly I doubt the writers would leave such a hole in the story. 

And we still don't even know how this occurs. You can't say it "flies up in the face" when you haven't even seen the ending as a whole. 

And Anders is a straight up killer. Regardless of his reason he murdered innocent people and committed an act of terrorism. That doesn't change. 

Add to the fact that it may have not even been Anders on the rivalry path who blew up the Chantry and you get a whole different can of worms. 

Anders or no, it doesn't really change the fact that  Hawke can potentially force him to kill those he had been fighting for all along, the reason why he shacked up with Justice in the first place.  Not to mention that a major reaasoning for siding with the Templars is because he just proved them correct. 

He still hates the Templars to the very core of his being -- it's the only reason why Vengeance exists.

[signcherie]

I thought I read that one of the writers suggested that Zev will turn down the Isabela thing because he's bowing out so that Alistair can have the experience to himself. Because Zev has had similar experiences before, so he thinks Alistair ought to have the opportunity.

[AnniLau]

Tasmen wrote...

AnniLau wrote...


Apparently so.

So does not help my mental images of this moment...

He doesn't have a girlfriend and is just a little bit  lonely, OK?

Modifié par AnniLau, 12 avril 2011 - 06:16 .

[Jean]

I'm still not sure how to make sense of Anders templar siding ending, but I have it in my head he commited suicide.

pleasedon'thitme

[Sialater]

signcherie wrote...

I thought I read that one of the writers suggested that Zev will turn down the Isabela thing because he's bowing out so that Alistair can have the experience to himself. Because Zev has had similar experiences before, so he thinks Alistair ought to have the opportunity.

Could be some of that, too.... but he sounds regretful not... gentlemanly?

[ekurian]

Sialater wrote...
Emma Cousland didn't romance Zev beyond a one-night stand, so there wasn't that problem.  She kissed Al everywhere.

~weeps for not having that with Anders~

Why can we not have the depth of romance we had in DA:O, Bioware? WHY.

I want to be able to see tasteful, happily angled scenes of love and be able to click on my partner and have a smooch in the middle of the Gallows (if not just to annoy Fenris and Cullen).

WHY BIOWARE, WHY?

*flailsob*

[Ryzaki]

RinjiRenee wrote...
Anders or no, it doesn't really change the fact that  Hawke can potentially force him to kill those he had been fighting for all along, the reason why he shacked up with Justice in the first place.  Not to mention that a major reaasoning for siding with the Templars is because he just proved them correct. 

He still hates the Templars to the very core of his being -- it's the only reason why Vengeance exists.

Indeed. But look at it another way. If you side with the mages what's to stop the Chantry from overreacting and harming mages everywhere in an attempt to regain order? The whole "mages everywhere rebel" thing makes little sense to me. I understand it on the mage path but the templar path? It confuses me. The sacrifice of the few to save the many. They were already considering a Divine March on Kirkwall because off the mages there. Anders was just the straw that broke the camel's back. His actions damned a multitude of mages. Many whom he have never even met and probably never will. Annulling the circle is redemption to those mages. Not the ones in the circle. So while it hurts and the mages would remain under the circle's thumb there may be some appeasement to be had so the Chantry doesn't strike out at the other Circles. 

Vengeance doesn't like compromise. Anders himself though...he seems to consider it. That's the main difference between them. 

My reasons for siding with the Templars was to try to minmize casulties. The mages in Kirkwall aren't the only ones at risk if the Chantry decides Kirkwall needs some reforms. 

Indeed it is. But he and Vengeance aren't in harmony on the rivalry path. (Which to me makes the killing him ending the most desireable). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 06:23 .

[Dasha Dreyson]

thenyxie wrote...

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

And this. Especially if your Hawke is a mage, to boot. There's no way they could make that fly. 

Varric shrugs. "Fortunes change."

I just can't see how they could make that work. Right after anulling the Circle, they're going to make a MAGE Viscount. AND let her apostate lover terrorist who blew up the Chantry and started the war live on at her side. Aside from how preposterous it sounds based on what we've learned in the game so far, I think the Divine might take some issue with that.

I mean, maybe they COULD have, but it would have taken a lot more work and storytelling beyond what we saw. A few minutes of a cut scene doesn't seem like long enough to make it all make sense.

I don't think it would last more than a few weeks to be honest. Those few weeks would be when the news is going to the Divine and before the added templars make it back. Then fortunes change. Hawke would have to be on the run at that point. I think Varric just shrugs off how bad it was when Cassandra asks.

[nyxocity]

Sialater wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Sialater wrote...
I think it's more that Zev's in love with The Warden no matter what and Alistair's breaking his heart  -- I'm of the opinion that some of those dialogs are Zev flirting a little with our virginal ex-Templar.  Alistair won't kiss you if Zev's in your party either.  Such gentlemen, those two!

Such a contrast with the dog and cat fights we get in DA2.

Yes he will? He just won't kiss you if Zev or Leliana objects, which they only do if you've turned on the romance. Otherwise, it's kissing on and Zevran chuckles about it.

Really?  Zev never said anything in Moira's game when she she tried to kiss Al.  Al just backed away and said something about Zev not appreciating it.  But then, her romances were SO BUGGED.  I couldn't even talk to either of them after Landsmeet without risking breaking up with one or the other.

Emma Cousland didn't romance Zev beyond a one-night stand, so there wasn't that problem.  She kissed Al everywhere.

~weeps for not having that with Anders~

I missed the kissing so much. I'd have paid extra for the game for one kiss scene I could use anytime anywhere. My City Elf kissed Alistair everywhere all the time. You'd think once Anders moved in you could at least get that in your house. Alas *sighs*

And man, I had one or two play throughs where it was all like:

Alistair: So you and Leliana?Me: We're just friends.
Alistair: Right, so this thing with you and Leliana.
Me: But we're just FRIENDS.
Alistair: It would be wrong to lead her on...
Me: Just. Friends. JUST FRIENDS!
Alistair: You're going to have to choose.
Me: F-R-I-E-N-D-S!!!!
Alistair: Who do you want?
Me: YOU. But--
Alistair: I'm so lucky you chose me.
Me: AUGH!

And then...

Leliana: Hi!
Me: I think we need to end this. I have no idea what I'm ending or why I have this dialogue option, but Alistair over there insists.
Leliana: Oh. But I thought...
Me: Thought what?
Leliana: You know. That you and I were more than just friends. (disapproves -15)
Me: AUGH!

~

And the unforgettable time I was loading up an old camp save to go play RtO:

Me: Hey Zev. Here, present for you.
Zev: Awesome! (approves +6)
Me: Hey honey.
Alistair: Oh, I'm glad you're here. See, I want to ask you a personal question. About Zevran.
Me: *stares* 
Alistair: Oh, I thought you might be romantically involved.
Me: This? NOW? Are you SERIOUS?
Alistair: Do you... have feelings for me?
Me: I've fought by your side since Ostagar, been in love with you since Lothering, we've confessed our love for each other and slept together on numerous occasions. I made you king because you're going to be amazing at it,
I'm gonna be your queen, we're GETTING MARRIED. And you're asking if I have FEELINGS for you?
Alistair: ...yes?
Me: Well, let's see. We're just about to head for Redcliffe and embark on the final battle... Yes, I think we should break up over Zevran and ruin everything we've shared and done up to this point. That'd just be AWESOME.
Alistair: That's sarcasm, right?
Me: You can be taught.
Alistair: I can. 
Me: *waits for it*
Alistair: So... about Zevran...

And then there was the one where Leliana kept falling in love with me if I breathed on her.

Modifié par thenyxie, 12 avril 2011 - 06:25 .

[Hellosanta]

Oh, no. This debate again. If you don't like him to side with templar then that's fine, your choice. Please don't make sound like your opinion/thought is only truth to exist. Merrill helping Hawke to fight against mages and Fenris helping Hawke to protect mages are already mind-breaking enough. It doesn't really hurt much more to have Anders to side with Templar.

[Jean]

"If you think that's the better attonement than my death, I am with you for so long I can maintain the grip on the monster inside me"

I am assuming this is his response for Hawke telling to to help with the Templars.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ryzaki wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
Anders or no, it doesn't really change the fact that  Hawke can potentially force him to kill those he had been fighting for all along, the reason why he shacked up with Justice in the first place.  Not to mention that a major reaasoning for siding with the Templars is because he just proved them correct. 

He still hates the Templars to the very core of his being -- it's the only reason why Vengeance exists.

Indeed. But look at it another way. If you side with the mages what's to stop the Chantry from overreacting and harming mages everywhere in an attempt to regain order? The sacrifice of the few to save the many. They were already considering a Divine March on Kirkwall because off the mages there. Anders was just the straw that broke the camel's back. 

My reasons for siding with the Templars was to try to minmize casulties. The mages aren't the only ones at risk if the Chantry decides Kirkwall needs some reforms. 

Indeed it is. But he and Vengeance aren't in harmony on the rivalry path. (Which to me makes the killing him ending the most desireable). 

Because the Chantry obviously does not want to punish all mages everywhere for the actions of one man, and anyone who thinks that they should are no better than Meredith? The Divine saw that the Resolutionists were scheming around Kirkwall, and this is what prompted their desire for an Exalted March -- just on Kirkwall, not on the rest of the world.  And, given Cassandra's dialogue at the ending, the Chantry has not risen up against the Circles -- Templars have broken off and betrayed the Chantry instead.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 12 avril 2011 - 06:22 .

[Sialater]

thenyxie wrote...

Sialater wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Sialater wrote...
I think it's more that Zev's in love with The Warden no matter what and Alistair's breaking his heart  -- I'm of the opinion that some of those dialogs are Zev flirting a little with our virginal ex-Templar.  Alistair won't kiss you if Zev's in your party either.  Such gentlemen, those two!

Such a contrast with the dog and cat fights we get in DA2.

Yes he will? He just won't kiss you if Zev or Leliana objects, which they only do if you've turned on the romance. Otherwise, it's kissing on and Zevran chuckles about it.

Really?  Zev never said anything in Moira's game when she she tried to kiss Al.  Al just backed away and said something about Zev not appreciating it.  But then, her romances were SO BUGGED.  I couldn't even talk to either of them after Landsmeet without risking breaking up with one or the other.

Emma Cousland didn't romance Zev beyond a one-night stand, so there wasn't that problem.  She kissed Al everywhere.

~weeps for not having that with Anders~

I missed the kissing so much. I'd have paid extra for the game for one kiss scene I could use anytime anywhere. My City Elf kissed Alistair everywhere all the time. You'd think once Anders moved in you could at least get that in your house. Alas *sighs*

And man, I had one or two play throughs where it was all like:

Alistair: So you and Leliana?Me: We're just friends.
Alistair: Right, so this thing with you and Leliana.
Me: But we're just FRIENDS.
Alistair: It would be wrong to lead her on...
Me: Just. Friends. JUST FRIENDS!
Alistair: You're going to have to choose.
Me: F-R-I-E-N-D-S!!!!
Alistair: Who do you want?
Me: YOU. But--Alistair:
I'm so lucky you chose me.Me: AUGH!

And then...

Leliana: Hi!
Me: I think we need to end this. I have no idea what I'm ending or why I have this dialogue option, but Alistair over there insists.
Leliana: Oh. But I thought...
Me: Thought what?
Leliana: You know. That you and I were more than just friends. (disapproves -15)
Me: AUGH!

~

And the unforgettable time I was loading up an old camp save to go play RtO:

Me: Hey Zev. Here, present for you.
Zev: Awesome! (approves +6)
Me: Hey honey.
Alistair: Oh, I'm glad you're here. See, I want to ask you a personal question. About Zevran.
Me: *stares* 
Alistair: Oh, I thought you might be romantically involved.
Me: This? NOW? Are you SERIOUS?
Alistair: Do you... have feelings for me?
Me: I've fought by your side since Ostagar, been in love with you since Lothering, we've confessed our love for each other and slept together on numerous occasions. I made you king because you're going to be amazing at it,
I'm gonna be your queen, we're GETTING MARRIED. And you're asking if I have FEELINGS for you?
Alistair: ...yes?
Me: Well, let's see. We're just about to head for Redcliffe and embark on the final battle... Yes, I think we should break up over Zevran and ruin everything we've shared and done up to this point. That'd just be AWESOME.
Alistair: That's sarcasm, right?
Me: You can be taught.
Alistair: I can. 
Me: *waits for it*
Alistair: So... about Zevran...

And then there was the one where Leliana kept falling in love with me if I breathed on her.

Ugh, Leliana...  Emma Cousland never even kissed her and couldn't escape.  That was one good thing about Moira's romance bug, Leliana couldn't even get in edgewise.  At least there's no bug like that for Fenris and Anders.

[andrastepreserveme]

Batteries wrote...

"If you think that's the better attonement than my death, I am with you for so long I can maintain the grip on the monster inside me"

I am assuming this is his response for Hawke telling to to help with the Templars.

Oooh! I had not heard that stuff before! Wow.

[Sialater]

Batteries wrote...

"If you think that's the better attonement than my death, I am with you for so long I can maintain the grip on the monster inside me"

I am assuming this is his response for Hawke telling to to help with the Templars.

Yes... There's actually a full clip of the bugged out scene on YouTube somewhere.

[Lady Jess]

ekurian wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Emma Cousland didn't romance Zev beyond a one-night stand, so there wasn't that problem.  She kissed Al everywhere.

~weeps for not having that with Anders~

Why can we not have the depth of romance we had in DA:O, Bioware? WHY.

I want to be able to see tasteful, happily angled scenes of love and be able to click on my partner and have a smooch in the middle of the Gallows (if not just to annoy Fenris and Cullen).

WHY BIOWARE, WHY?

*flailsob*

Or actually see the falling in love parts happening. especially with Anders I mean his three years of aching kinda jumps up out of NOWHERE when you've only flirted a time or two years ago...lol. I don't mind some fill in the blanks but dude, this is fill in the entire book sometimes.

[SurelyForth]

Ryzaki wrote...
They might? So you're saying somethings vastly out of character when you have no proof of it being true? The endings are copy pasted. But frankly I doubt the writers would leave such a hole in the story. You're jumping the gun and saying an ending shouldn't be in the game based off a guess. 

And we still don't even know how this occurs. You can't say it "flies up in the face" when you haven't even seen the ending as a whole. 

And Anders is a straight up killer. Regardless of his reason he murdered innocent people and committed an act of terrorism. That doesn't change. No matter how just his reasons he's a murder and a terrorist. 

Add to the fact that it may have not even been Anders on the rivalry path who blew up the Chantry and you get a whole different can of worms. 

I did not say it SHOULDN'T be left out because of a guess. I'm saying that there's more nuance to this ending than the there are to other romances/companions and that those nuances should be addressed if the pro-templar ending is fixed, otherwise it makes no sense.  

And, seriously, what Anders do you have in your game that him agreeing to kill mages who have done nothing wrong as punishment for a crime that he committed isn't out of character? I have seen him agreeing to side with the templars, and that alone is enough to put me off of it, unless it's supposed to be exactly as ****ed up as it sounds, with him wishing for death to follow.

And I can see a line between someone who kills in the name of a cause that will then fight to his death for said cause and a killer with a cause that he can abandon because he's told to do so, but only after his actions has caused innocents to be condemned to death.

Batteries wrote...

"If you think that's the better attonement than my death, I am with you for so long I can maintain the grip on the monster inside me"

I am assuming this is his response for Hawke telling to to help with the Templars.

He also has a line at the Gallows where he says pretty much says "I cannot see myself living past this."

Modifié par SurelyForth, 12 avril 2011 - 06:30 .