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[signcherie]

Batteries wrote...

I'm still not sure how to make sense of Anders templar siding ending, but I have it in my head he commited suicide.

pleasedon'thitme

I second this. From the deleted scene I saw of him siding with the Templars, it seems like he wants to die. He keeps talking about death, if I recall.

Edit: aaargh top of page

by runaire

Modifié par signcherie, 12 avril 2011 - 06:31 .

[Ryzaki]

RinjiRenee wrote...
Because the Chantry obviously does not want to punish all mages everywhere for the actions of one man, and anyone who thinks that they should are no better than Meredith? The Divine saw that the Resolutionists were scheming around Kirkwall, and this is what prompted their desire for an Exalted March -- just on Kirkwall, not on the rest of the world.  And, given Cassandra's dialogue at the ending, the Chantry has not risen up against the Circles -- Templars have broken off and betrayed the Chantry instead.

The Chantry seems more like it doesn't want to risk a war than care about how they punish the mages. An Exalted March on Kirkwall would've shown the rest of the world that such behavior wouldn't be tolerated. Exalted Marches everywhere would've been unnecessary and drain on resources. 

Cassandra's dialogue told me more that the Chantry had broken into those that wanted war, and those that didn't. Her "not all of us desire war Varric." to me was telling. She seems to think (if on the Templar ending) Hawke can calm the Templars down. On the Mages ending he can calm the mages down. I'm confused as to who is the aggressor in either scenario though. I'm guessing that the Chantry as a whole may not rise against the Circle but is rather fighting with itself on whether to go to war or not. 

[ekurian]

Lady Jess wrote...

ekurian wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Emma Cousland didn't romance Zev beyond a one-night stand, so there wasn't that problem.  She kissed Al everywhere.

~weeps for not having that with Anders~

Why can we not have the depth of romance we had in DA:O, Bioware? WHY.

I want to be able to see tasteful, happily angled scenes of love and be able to click on my partner and have a smooch in the middle of the Gallows (if not just to annoy Fenris and Cullen).

WHY BIOWARE, WHY?

*flailsob*

Or actually see the falling in love parts happening. especially with Anders I mean his three years of aching kinda jumps up out of NOWHERE when you've only flirted a time or two years ago...lol. I don't mind some fill in the blanks but dude, this is fill in the entire book sometimes.

I totally agree D:

If I want any DLC, it's a gap filler DLC.

[Ryzaki]

SurelyForth wrote...
I did not say it SHOULDN'T be left out because of a guess. I'm saying that there's more nuance to this ending than the there are to other romances/companions and that those nuances should be addressed if the pro-templar ending is fixed, otherwise it makes no sense.  

And, seriously, what Anders do you have in your game that him agreeing to kill mages who have done nothing wrong as punishment for a crime that he committed isn't out of character? I have seen him agreeing to side with the templars, and that alone is enough to put me off of it, unless it's supposed to be exactly as ****ed up as it sounds, with him wishing for death to follow.

And I can see a line between someone who kills in the name of a cause that will then fight to his death for said cause and a killer with a cause that he can abandon because he's told to do so, but only after his actions has caused innocents to be condemned to death.

Like him being executed? Yes I'd expect that to be addressed as well. 

Needs of the many beating the needs of the few. The mages in Kirkwall aren't the only ones at risk if the Chantry sees the mages rebelling as something threatening. And yes his wishing for death makes much sense. He watched himself kill (at least that's how he describes it to Merrill) a woman who no matter what she may or may not have done didn't warrent being killed by his hand. He committed an act of terrorism, he changed his best friend into a demon and can lose control of his body at any time. So yes he's plenty ****ed up to be wishing for death. 

Except the bomb wasn't part of his cause. He tries to undo it and his hands are tied. The rivarly path is all about trying to get him to work within the Chantry to make things better and to see compromise. The whole purpose of the bomb was to force no compromise. 

Innocents are dying either way. Hopefully with annulling the circle and Anders summary execution the Chantry will be appeased. 

I'm not asking for the rivarymance to have Hawke and Anders skipping off into the forest of tru wub. I expect a broken sad man who is executed at the end of it. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 06:35 .

[silver-crescent]

Batteries wrote...

"If you think that's the better attonement than my death, I am with you for so long I can maintain the grip on the monster inside me"

I am assuming this is his response for Hawke telling to to help with the Templars.

I think that only pops up not only if you rival him, but also if you convince him joining with Justice was wrong in the last Questioning Beliefs quest, and that he should undo whatever he had done (the bomb). Hawke's first line seems to indicate that.

That said, ugh that's just horrible. He really seems intent on dying in that path.

[nyxocity]

@Sialater: I think that's why they got rid of the triangle romance options in DA2. They could be incredibly buggy. Leliana was always pulling that crap, in the play through I did where I romanced Zev, same thing happened.

Me: So I wanted to ask if you're feeling better about Marjoline.
Leliana: Come on! Tell me I'm pretty! Come on come on!
Me: No.
Leliana: Tell me I could try to charm you.
Me: This is me, resisting.
Leliana: I love you!
Me: ... WHAT? No. I KNOW I didn't pick any romance options this time! I DID NOT. I avoided them all like the plague!
Leliana: We'll talk about this again soon.
Me: Zeeeeev!
Zev: So I notice you and Leliana have gotten close...
Me: *tears out hair* There is NO. ESCAPE.
Me: *reloads*
Leliana: I do not try to charm you because our friendship should be built on trust--
Me: So you're not in love with me?
Leliana: No. But I could be if you--
Me: *runs away*

I just stopped talking to her after a while *LOL* I'm really glad they don't have those kinds of bugs in DA2.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ryzaki wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
Because the Chantry obviously does not want to punish all mages everywhere for the actions of one man, and anyone who thinks that they should are no better than Meredith? The Divine saw that the Resolutionists were scheming around Kirkwall, and this is what prompted their desire for an Exalted March -- just on Kirkwall, not on the rest of the world.  And, given Cassandra's dialogue at the ending, the Chantry has not risen up against the Circles -- Templars have broken off and betrayed the Chantry instead.

The Chantry seems more like it doesn't want to risk a war than care about how they punish the mages. An Exalted March on Kirkwall would've shown the rest of the world that such behavior wouldn't be tolerated. Exalted Marches everywhere would've been unnecessary and drain on resources. 

Cassandra's dialogue told me more that the Chantry had broken into those that wanted war, and those that didn't. Her "not all of us desire war Varric." to me was telling. She seems to think (if on the Templar ending) Hawke can calm the Templars down. On the Mages ending he can calm the mages down. I'm confused as to who is the aggressor in either scenario though. I'm guessing that the Chantry as a whole may not rise against the Circle but is rather fighting with itself on whether to go to war or not. 

When their own army has decided to break off from them for whatever reason (I'm guessing a lack of action), I can definitely see why they'd be on the fence.  Though, they do have the Seekers... who are supposed to be the check for the Templars, but I guess we'll see in DA3 what their intentions are.

Ffff Leliana pissed me off with her last line, "It's in the Maker's hands now."  Yeah, the last time someone said that, ANDERS BLEW UP THE CHANTRY.

[Jean]

ekurian wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

ekurian wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Emma Cousland didn't romance Zev beyond a one-night stand, so there wasn't that problem.  She kissed Al everywhere.

~weeps for not having that with Anders~

Why can we not have the depth of romance we had in DA:O, Bioware? WHY.

I want to be able to see tasteful, happily angled scenes of love and be able to click on my partner and have a smooch in the middle of the Gallows (if not just to annoy Fenris and Cullen).

WHY BIOWARE, WHY?

*flailsob*

Or actually see the falling in love parts happening. especially with Anders I mean his three years of aching kinda jumps up out of NOWHERE when you've only flirted a time or two years ago...lol. I don't mind some fill in the blanks but dude, this is fill in the entire book sometimes.

I totally agree D:

If I want any DLC, it's a gap filler DLC.

If I remember correctly, apparently the level cap in this game is 50, so I'm assuming some sort of expansion pack will come eventually?
Even with DLC released every now and then that is a lot of levels to climb.

[silver-crescent]

Batteries wrote...

ekurian wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

ekurian wrote...

Sialater wrote...
Emma Cousland didn't romance Zev beyond a one-night stand, so there wasn't that problem.  She kissed Al everywhere.

~weeps for not having that with Anders~

Why can we not have the depth of romance we had in DA:O, Bioware? WHY.

I want to be able to see tasteful, happily angled scenes of love and be able to click on my partner and have a smooch in the middle of the Gallows (if not just to annoy Fenris and Cullen).

WHY BIOWARE, WHY?

*flailsob*

Or actually see the falling in love parts happening. especially with Anders I mean his three years of aching kinda jumps up out of NOWHERE when you've only flirted a time or two years ago...lol. I don't mind some fill in the blanks but dude, this is fill in the entire book sometimes.

I totally agree D:

If I want any DLC, it's a gap filler DLC.

If I remember correctly, apparently the level cap in this game is 50, so I'm assuming some sort of expansion pack will come eventually?
Even with DLC released every now and then that is a lot of levels to climb.

Well I don't know if the idea is to ever actually reach level 50 through conventional methods. You can get there using the potions of heroism though, which is good for the people who like to have their characters maxed I suppose.

[ekurian]

Batteries wrote...

If I remember correctly, apparently the level cap in this game is 50, so I'm assuming some sort of expansion pack will come eventually?
Even with DLC released every now and then that is a lot of levels to climb.

Eeep, I hope so ><

The whole 'AND WE LEFT HAWKE EVENTUALLY LOL' ending annoyed me. Cassandra wants to hear every little detail, such as Hawke returning some guy's lost pants, but doesn't question Varric on why and how they all went seperate ways? She could use tha information to find Hawke.

It's either a story-hole-cop-out, or a story-hole screaming DLC HERE PLEASE.

[Ryzaki]

RinjiRenee wrote...
When their own army has decided to break off from them for whatever reason (I'm guessing a lack of action), I can definitely see why they'd be on the fence.  Though, they do have the Seekers... who are supposed to be the check for the Templars, but I guess we'll see in DA3 what their intentions are.

Ffff Leliana pissed me off with her last line, "It's in the Maker's hands now."  Yeah, the last time someone said that, ANDERS BLEW UP THE CHANTRY.

Yeah I can see the Templars getting annoyed at the Chantry sitting on their hands. And why are the Seekers so interested in the Warden? Hawke I can understand. But what do they want with the Hero of Fereldan? Or the Orlesian Warden if the other is dead. 

LOL. I don't know why Leliana seems so cold. now.  Maybe it was all a lie. She didn't seem the type to let innocents die for something someone else did. (Heck look at her reaction if you decide to kill the elves as revenge for the werewolves, or even to keeping the Anvil). 

[Jean]

ekurian wrote...

Batteries wrote...

If I remember correctly, apparently the level cap in this game is 50, so I'm assuming some sort of expansion pack will come eventually?
Even with DLC released every now and then that is a lot of levels to climb.

Eeep, I hope so ><

The whole 'AND WE LEFT HAWKE EVENTUALLY LOL' ending annoyed me. Cassandra wants to hear every little detail, such as Hawke returning some guy's lost pants, but doesn't question Varric on why and how they all went seperate ways? She could use tha information to find Hawke.

It's either a story-hole-cop-out, or a story-hole screaming DLC HERE PLEASE.

I wonder if Hawke/LI would even still be together at the point Varric is telling the story? Unless leaving Hawke was a more recent thing for Varric himself.

There's this too

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Batteries, 12 avril 2011 - 06:47 .

[ipgd]

I don't really see the problem Anders siding with the templars. If he were actually in a normal state of mind, sure, but he's completely nuts at that point in the rivalry path. He's basically Ketojan.

Him not being executed/killing himself afterward is stretching it, but I can totally see him deferring to Hawke while the shock is still fresh.

[Dasha Dreyson]

... and now for a cat that Anders would say isn't a real pet.

[Sialater]

thenyxie wrote...

@Sialater: I think that's why they got rid of the triangle romance options in DA2. They could be incredibly buggy. Leliana was always pulling that crap, in the play through I did where I romanced Zev, same thing happened.

Me: So I wanted to ask if you're feeling better about Marjoline.
Leliana: Come on! Tell me I'm pretty! Come on come on!
Me: No.
Leliana: Tell me I could try to charm you.
Me: This is me, resisting.
Leliana: I love you!
Me: ... WHAT? No. I KNOW I didn't pick any romance options this time! I DID NOT. I avoided them all like the plague!
Leliana: We'll talk about this again soon.
Me: Zeeeeev!
Zev: So I notice you and Leliana have gotten close...
Me: *tears out hair* There is NO. ESCAPE.
Me: *reloads*
Leliana: I do not try to charm you because our friendship should be built on trust--
Me: So you're not in love with me?
Leliana: No. But I could be if you--
Me: *runs away*

I just stopped talking to her after a while *LOL* I'm really glad they don't have those kinds of bugs in DA2.

But there wasn't really a triangle option with Zev and Al.  There was a broken romance flag which I lucked out in getting. 

[Ryzaki]

@thenyxie: Oh god the infamous Leliana ninja bug.

I got it a few times myself.

Leliana: How could you! We played with each other's hair under the stars!

My Warden: Wat. 

Leliana: And you and Alistair!

Warden: You...you were teasing me about our relationship not ten minutes ago! You know Alistair and I are in love! 

Leliana: *disapproves 20*

Warden: D: 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 06:48 .

[nyxocity]

Batteries wrote...

ekurian wrote...

Batteries wrote...

If I remember correctly, apparently the level cap in this game is 50, so I'm assuming some sort of expansion pack will come eventually?
Even with DLC released every now and then that is a lot of levels to climb.

Eeep, I hope so ><

The whole 'AND WE LEFT HAWKE EVENTUALLY LOL' ending annoyed me. Cassandra wants to hear every little detail, such as Hawke returning some guy's lost pants, but doesn't question Varric on why and how they all went seperate ways? She could use tha information to find Hawke.

It's either a story-hole-cop-out, or a story-hole screaming DLC HERE PLEASE.

I wonder if Hawke/LI would even still be together at the point Varric is telling the story? Unless leaving Hawke was a more recent thing for Varric himself.

There's this too

www.youtube.com/watch

Or if he left at all. I read a fic last week where right after Cassandra left, Varric goes outside and is all, "Hey there, Hawke." *G* It was pretty awesome.

[ekurian]

Batteries wrote...

ekurian wrote...

Batteries wrote...

If I remember correctly, apparently the level cap in this game is 50, so I'm assuming some sort of expansion pack will come eventually?
Even with DLC released every now and then that is a lot of levels to climb.

Eeep, I hope so ><

The whole 'AND WE LEFT HAWKE EVENTUALLY LOL' ending annoyed me. Cassandra wants to hear every little detail, such as Hawke returning some guy's lost pants, but doesn't question Varric on why and how they all went seperate ways? She could use tha information to find Hawke.

It's either a story-hole-cop-out, or a story-hole screaming DLC HERE PLEASE.

I wonder if Hawke/LI would even still be together at the point Varric is telling the story? Unless leaving Hawke was a more recent thing for Varric himself.

There's this]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Ku8QPp9LI]this too.

Whoa, is that a cut dialogue?

Yes, Varric, Cassandra has a good point. What did Hawke do? (Mine was definitley not knitting).

And I can hope they'd still be togther D:
With my Hawke, Anders would be all she had left, since Carver would obviously go back to the Grey Wardens. And She'd be trying her best to 'fix' him and Justice.

[Jean]

ekurian wrote...

Batteries wrote...

ekurian wrote...

Batteries wrote...

If I remember correctly, apparently the level cap in this game is 50, so I'm assuming some sort of expansion pack will come eventually?
Even with DLC released every now and then that is a lot of levels to climb.

Eeep, I hope so ><

The whole 'AND WE LEFT HAWKE EVENTUALLY LOL' ending annoyed me. Cassandra wants to hear every little detail, such as Hawke returning some guy's lost pants, but doesn't question Varric on why and how they all went seperate ways? She could use tha information to find Hawke.

It's either a story-hole-cop-out, or a story-hole screaming DLC HERE PLEASE.

I wonder if Hawke/LI would even still be together at the point Varric is telling the story? Unless leaving Hawke was a more recent thing for Varric himself.

There's this]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Ku8QPp9LI]this too.

Whoa, is that a cut dialogue?

Yes, Varric, Cassandra has a good point. What did Hawke do? (Mine was definitley not knitting).

And I can hope they'd still be togther D:
With my Hawke, Anders would be all she had left, since Carver would obviously go back to the Grey Wardens. And She'd be trying her best to 'fix' him and Justice.

To be honest that's more or less a lost cause whatever path you took him on.
But I'm curious; what event of any significance can happen after the Deep Roads? I kinda hope for stuff after the fact. :x

[shiba5]

Tasmen wrote...

AnniLau wrote...


Apparently so.

So does not help my mental images of this moment...

He needs to change his Twitter pic to one of him slurping on his hand.

[nyxocity]

Sialater wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

@Sialater: I think that's why they got rid of the triangle romance options in DA2. They could be incredibly buggy. Leliana was always pulling that crap, in the play through I did where I romanced Zev, same thing happened.

Me: So I wanted to ask if you're feeling better about Marjoline.
Leliana: Come on! Tell me I'm pretty! Come on come on!
Me: No.
Leliana: Tell me I could try to charm you.
Me: This is me, resisting.
Leliana: I love you!
Me: ... WHAT? No. I KNOW I didn't pick any romance options this time! I DID NOT. I avoided them all like the plague!
Leliana: We'll talk about this again soon.
Me: Zeeeeev!
Zev: So I notice you and Leliana have gotten close...
Me: *tears out hair* There is NO. ESCAPE.
Me: *reloads*
Leliana: I do not try to charm you because our friendship should be built on trust--
Me: So you're not in love with me?
Leliana: No. But I could be if you--
Me: *runs away*

I just stopped talking to her after a while *LOL* I'm really glad they don't have those kinds of bugs in DA2.

But there wasn't really a triangle option with Zev and Al.  There was a broken romance flag which I lucked out in getting. 

There wasn't? I can't remember now. Did they just make you choose right away? What happened to you?

[Lady Jess]

Anders siding with Templars: Seriously. Did you not HEAR the man in Awakening get angry and rail against the chantry and their treatment of mages? Did you not pay attention to his anger about templars or maybe MISS his totally lack of give a crap about the dead Templars in the Vigil after "I didn't do it"? Then he says it all AGAIN in DA2. it is not only OOC to have him fight FOR the templars, it's OOC across TWO GAMES that he's been in now. And it's REALLY OOC for an Anders possessed by JUSTICE who has been plotting to blow the tin can headed jerks up!

[TheComfyCat]

Sialater wrote...

I think it's more that Zev's in love with The Warden no matter what and Alistair's breaking his heart  -- I'm of the opinion that some of those dialogs are Zev flirting a little with our virginal ex-Templar.  Alistair won't kiss you if Zev's in your party either.  Such gentlemen, those two!

Such a contrast with the dog and cat fights we get in DA2.

I definitely don't think that Zev is in love with the Warden no matter what (unlike Anders, who I think seems to be in love with Hawke no matter what). Zevran does grow to love a Warden he's in a relationship with (and probably actually loves them long before he realizes it or admits his feelings), but otherwise he's happy for the Warden the same way Izzy is for Hawke (i.e. would have been a willing bed partner but otherwise not jealous).

In banters, Zevran often uses sexual talk/ jokes to deflect topics he doesn't want to talk about, or to tease someone (usually Al or Lel). In such cases he's not serious. There's even a dialogue where Lel (hardened) calls him on his bluff.


Anyway, I've been replaying Origins lately (ah, it really is like sunshine and rainbows), and I've found chats with Wynne to be more interesting now that I have Anders, or well, all of DA2 in mind. She's definitely pro-circle, but she still talks about possible abuses by Templars, as well as having interesting chats about abominations and fade spirits (such as the convo where she thinks/ wonders if there might be a way to "cure" an abomination, before she tells the Warden about her, eh, "situation"). She also has a conversation about how mages outside the circle are often persecuted (as in villagers with pitchforks and torches), thus making the circles safer for mages than freedom.

Not that I agree with what Wynne says because she's judgemental and preachy, but it's definitely more interesting to talk to her with the perspective of DA2. I wonder if she's involved in whatever's happened in the Ferelden circle during DA2.

Modifié par senorfuzzylips, 12 avril 2011 - 06:59 .

[silver-crescent]

ekurian wrote...

Eeep, I hope so ><

The whole 'AND WE LEFT HAWKE EVENTUALLY LOL' ending annoyed me. Cassandra wants to hear every little detail, such as Hawke returning some guy's lost pants, but doesn't question Varric on why and how they all went seperate ways? She could use tha information to find Hawke.

It's either a story-hole-cop-out, or a story-hole screaming DLC HERE PLEASE.

Ugh that just reminded of another game. Digital Devil Saga, an incredibly dark JRPG for the PS2. It's divided in 2 parts (DDS1 and DDS2), and

SPOILERS

the last part of DDS2 consists of every single one of your party members dying, either while fighting hopeless battles of trying to protect the MC, one after another, and this goes on for HOURS. 

/SPOILERS

Given the mood setwith DA2, I could totally see future DLC being something like that D:

Modifié par silver-crescent, 12 avril 2011 - 06:57 .