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The Anders Thread: Flash Fic Contest! Details on Pg. 2274


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#22001
phantomdragoness

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Sialater wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Hawke, on the rivalrymance path, spends almost every moment in game that they're together underscoring how wrong he was.  (Unfortunately, you can't do this without bashing mages in general which is stupid.) This judgment by Hawke starts wearing him down and he begins to question everything. This is the point where Hawke starts breaking him.

The Rivalrymance is brutal. There is no sugarcoating it, you're calling out the person you love (as Hawke) on his **** in the most blunt fashion possible. Sometimes, you're downright cruel. Does he deserve this? I don't know. Depends on your view of abominations.


I know it was just my way of playing it and my Hawke, but I was never brutal to Anders. I gave him nice answers most of the time, I just was a bit more decisive when talking about Justice. My rivalry points came from sending mages to the Circle  and helping templars in some missions. But toward Anders himself, you don't have to be a complete douche or aim at breaking him to take onward the rivalmance. For example I took the nice answer after the "Ella" incident, telling him that he doesn't have to give up and he should try to be an example. 
Just my playthrough, as I said, but I just wanted to stress out that Hawke doesn't have to be cruel with him :)


LOL, thanks for reading my Wall o' Text.

It doesn't HAVE to be abusive, but it can be.  But still doesn't invalidate the rest of my analysis. =]


See, I tried going down the Rivalry path and thought it was too abusive. That's how I felt, at least. I realize from a different point of view that you're saying: "Anders, you're wrong, you can't risk your life like this" (at least that's what it looked like in one youtube video), but Hawke does do it in an almost cruel manner. I give up half-way through and reload. XD Besides, I agree with Anders too much to even try to disagree. lol


EDIT: Crap, top! Um...um...um...I'm a console user! Give me a minute to google! *runs*

EDIT2: Aw, screw it. I don't know how to post a picture anymore anyways.:crying:

Modifié par phantomdragoness, 12 avril 2011 - 10:10 .


#22002
Purposeof-Flight

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shiba5 wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Not Anders-related, but having seen Fox mocked here on more than one occasion, I just have to point this out.

Pink nail polish => gender confusion


That article is the most infuriating thing I've seen all week.


I bet the comments are just as bad, although I couldn't bring myself to click on them. :sick:


LULZ.
Someone in the comment section was like, "Really, from what website did you print your doctorate from? Or is your first name just DR?"
Hahahaha

#22003
ipgd

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AnniLau wrote...

Ha, amusing A_Howdz exchange on Twitter in which the BioWare boards were mentioned.

(Don't look, Adam...you'll be scarred for life.)

I'm more tickled by the fact he appears to like Mean Girls.

#22004
Amondra

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Sialater wrote...

By the time the Rivalrymance ending rolls around, Anders is broken. (Now, Ryz, hear me out before you yell at me.)

Hawke has spend the past 6 years telling him that the defining moment in his life, when he helped his friend with the best of intentions, doomed them both to the worst kind of existence. Neither Anders nor Justice ever even dreamed this would happen. They went into this symbiotic relationship, each thinking that they'd be different. The worst couldn't possibly happen to them.

They were wrong.

Anders' unresolved anger, apparent even in Awakening, is there, simmering under the surface. A year in solitary, pre-Awakening, didn't help. Neither did Anders apparent transfer within the Grey Wardens away from the protection of OUR Warden, and back under a Templar's thumb. Slowly, Justice started to become infected with
Anders' anger to the point where he slaughtered his brothers in arms.

THIS is Anders' first wake-up call that **** ain't right.

He leaves for Kirkwall to either hide or track down Karl or both. And ends up getting angrier when he realizes his old friend and lover is bait in a trap for him, and only by the grace of the Maker and Hawke that he wasn't trapped in it. This is the second time he loses control to Justice.

The third time is that mage girl who's name utterly escapes me. I've never let her die, so I can't say what he does there, but this is clearly warning sign number three. Anders is losing it.

He dials back for a while, whether because he's content with Hawke, or she really is the distraction Justice claims, is unclear since we're not in Anders' head and we're not given a lot to go on. But Justice is quiet for a time. Probably because nearly killing/or killing that mage scared the hell out of Anders and he manages to wrest semi-permanent control back away.

Hawke, on the rivalrymance path, spends almost every moment in game that they're together underscoring how wrong he was.  (Unfortunately, you can't do this without bashing mages in general which is stupid.) This judgment by Hawke starts wearing him down and he begins to question everything. This is the point where Hawke starts breaking him.

The Rivalrymance is brutal. There is no sugarcoating it, you're calling out the person you love (as Hawke) on his **** in the most blunt fashion possible. Sometimes, you're downright cruel. Does he deserve this? I don't know. Depends on your view of abominations.

Anders loves Hawke. Any gender, any morality, he loves Hawke. The Rivalrymance may be tough love, but it's borderline abusive. By the time he emotionally blackmails Hawke into helping (or not), he's ready to die. He's not
suicidal, but he's convinced he's no longer deserving of life. Blowing up the Chantry is Justice for the mages because it forces them to fight. They can no longer be passive. As Justice says in Awakening, "Why don't you strike a blow against your oppressors and ensure they cannot do this to anyone else?" If the mages rise up, they can't be unilaterally oppressed any more. (Not my logic -- hell it's not even Anders' logic, this is Justice, remember?) Once at max Rivalry, Anders tries to undo the bomb, but Justice, now corrupted entirely into Vengeance, takes over and prevents him from doing anything. Couple this with the mage underground imploding due to Grace's stupidity and you have an incredibly desperate man and corrupted spirit.

The Chantry goes boom.

Now, the hard part. Anders, by now, is a broken man. He's clearly lost control of Justice/Vengeance, not once, but four separate times, if not more. After all, he's been having blackouts with Justice/Vengeance doing Maker knows what while he's out. He knows he cannot be trusted. He no longer even trusts himself. And Hawke, the one rock he's come to depend on, the one constant in his personal hell, hasn't killed him. In fact, Hawke offers him a chance at redemption, a chance to try to make up for the ultimate crime of becoming an Abomination. Restore
order to the Circle. Annul the blood mages (whom he doesn't agree with anyway). Try to save the City from splintering into lawlessness. His will is gone. All he has left is Hawke. He doesn't even have himself.


Now, the problem with this is a lot of it is dependent upon subtext in a broken game path. I reserve the right to change my analysis if I ever get to actually play the full, unbugged Rivalry path. Image IPB


Do I agree that this is the best path for him? No. But I do think it's within character.




That is the reason why I couldn't rivalmance him(outside of it being broken)  I felt the same way on it.  Heavens know I felt for the man.  I mean seriously his life though not the worst hasn't been a walk in the park.  I always saw the rivalry path with him as abusive.  You were beating him down into nothing, rather then help him fight back.  Almost the more you pushed Justice was pushing harder and the two of you were killing what was left of him.  

Some say the friendship path is like "giving a drug user drugs" some thing along those line don't quote me,  But I don't see it that way I see it more as you are helping him come to terms in a more peacful way, do Justice doens't push as hard, or that Hawke is excepting that Justice is now a part of Anders and you can't love him without loving the other...even though the other hates you.  Hawke knows he/she is his rock, and will continue to do so.  So when Justice looses his cool Hawke is there to bring him down...unless poo bombs are invovled...

However the idea of writing a small fic of abusive Hawke and Anders has crossed my mind...but even in fanfiction I don't know I have the strength...

#22005
shiba5

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My husbands computer is furiously frusterbating to something behind me. It's not actually running anything at the moment, but the hard drive is thrashing away. I suspect it's checking out its Ander's files.




edit: or it's just Windows being Windows.

Modifié par shiba5, 12 avril 2011 - 10:03 .


#22006
AnniLau

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ipgd wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Ha, amusing A_Howdz exchange on Twitter in which the BioWare boards were mentioned.

(Don't look, Adam...you'll be scarred for life.)

I'm more tickled by the fact he appears to like Mean Girls.

Or wide-set vaginas, in any case.

#22007
Tasmen

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ipgd wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Ha, amusing A_Howdz exchange on Twitter in which the BioWare boards were mentioned.

(Don't look, Adam...you'll be scarred for life.)

I'm more tickled by the fact he appears to like Mean Girls.


I'm amused he is sad he is not responsible for all gaping vaginas personally...

#22008
shiba5

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AnniLau wrote...

ipgd wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Ha, amusing A_Howdz exchange on Twitter in which the BioWare boards were mentioned.

(Don't look, Adam...you'll be scarred for life.)

I'm more tickled by the fact he appears to like Mean Girls.

Or wide-set vaginas, in any case.


At least he seems to be taking responsibilty for some of them.

Modifié par shiba5, 12 avril 2011 - 10:11 .


#22009
Inzhuna

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Apparently Adam Howden has two cats. D'awwww, I keep liking him more and more.
http://yfrog.com/h799neaj

#22010
MelfinaofOutlawStar

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shiba5 wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Not Anders-related, but having seen Fox mocked here on more than one occasion, I just have to point this out.

Pink nail polish => gender confusion


"Yeah, well, it may be fun and games now, Jenna, but at least put some
money aside for psychotherapy for the kid—and maybe a little for others
who’ll be affected by your “innocent” pleasure."

WOW!
He's totally one of those ZOMG ANOTHER MAN!! people!


My favorite take on homosexuality will always be from Lewis Black.

Warning for language
Gay bandidos...

Modifié par MelfinaofOutlawStar, 12 avril 2011 - 10:08 .


#22011
Miri1984

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@Tasmen Poor chook. It sounds like he needs a girlfriend. I'M SURE SOMEONE WILL OFFER SOON.

#22012
ipgd

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Both the friendship and rivalry paths are pretty damn depressing. You're either enabling him until he completely gives himself to Justice, or antagonizing him until Justice becomes so corrupted and discordant that he cannot contain him. In both cases, old Anders is basically dead; it's just a matter of whether you think it's better that he fade away peacefully or fight to retain his individuality to the end.

#22013
CatOfEvilGenius

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Threeparts wrote...

I'm curious: did you reach a point in your game where your canon Hawke would have put their foot down and said, "Hey, whoa, hold on a second, I'm getting off this crazy train," and departed from the actual events that transpired? I assume so, since we've discussed before about wanting to get out of Kirkwall after Leandra's death, but what is the specific point where your story would have split from the one written?


My mage!Hawke would have left when the mage underground imploded, to carry on the fight somewhere not already doomed. First, she would have spray painted "EVERYONE BE LESS STUPID" all over town though.

Modifié par CatOfEvilGenius, 12 avril 2011 - 10:10 .


#22014
AnniLau

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Tasmen wrote...

ipgd wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Ha, amusing A_Howdz exchange on Twitter in which the BioWare boards were mentioned.

(Don't look, Adam...you'll be scarred for life.)

I'm more tickled by the fact he appears to like Mean Girls.


I'm amused he is sad he is not responsible for all gaping vaginas personally...


That could be misconstrued...if we wanted to be mean. :devil:

Modifié par AnniLau, 12 avril 2011 - 10:16 .


#22015
Ryzaki

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I don't know. I see the friendship path as enabling him.  You just let him get swallowed up by Justice with a whimper. Instead of the railing and screaming. Prettier but no less horrifying. 

Truth be told the rivalry path is only as abusive as you make it. My aggressive Hawke railed on him. My diplomatic Hawke just sighed and tried to point out the flaws in his logic that Justice wasn't a demon.

You can make it ugly on the rivalry path. But you can make it ugly on the friendship path.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 10:12 .


#22016
Tasmen

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Miri1984 wrote...

@Tasmen Poor chook. It sounds like he needs a girlfriend. I'M SURE SOMEONE WILL OFFER SOON.



Hahaha, I know totally.  I'm sure someone probably already has offered.

#22017
Purposeof-Flight

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Ehh. I'm not fangirling over Adam Howden.
First of all, I cannot navigate Twitter, so I avoid it lest my brain explode.
Second of all, I try not to even see what VAs look like, or else their face will replace the face of the character, which is not acceptable.
Third of all....just...not interested.

#22018
shiba5

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Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Ehh. I'm not fangirling over Adam Howden.
First of all, I cannot navigate Twitter, so I avoid it lest my brain explode.
Second of all, I try not to even see what VAs look like, or else their face will replace the face of the character, which is not acceptable.
Third of all....just...not interested.


He ain't bad. I'm just sayin'...

#22019
Ryzaki

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ipgd wrote...

Both the friendship and rivalry paths are pretty damn depressing. You're either enabling him until he completely gives himself to Justice, or antagonizing him until Justice becomes so corrupted and discordant that he cannot contain him. In both cases, old Anders is basically dead; it's just a matter of whether you think it's better that he fade away peacefully or fight to retain his individuality to the end.


Gah. This. 

Why do you always say what I want to say but far more eloquently? 

#22020
thebrute7

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Sialater wrote...

*Wall o' Text snip*


That was very interesting.  I think you gave me a reason to actually try rivalmance... 

#22021
AnniLau

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shiba5 wrote...

Purposeof-Flight wrote...

Ehh. I'm not fangirling over Adam Howden.
First of all, I cannot navigate Twitter, so I avoid it lest my brain explode.
Second of all, I try not to even see what VAs look like, or else their face will replace the face of the character, which is not acceptable.
Third of all....just...not interested.


He ain't bad. I'm just sayin'...


And, perhaps more importantly, he's pretty funny. And has kitties!

#22022
Sable Rhapsody

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Ryzaki wrote...

I don't know. I see the friendship path as enabling him.  You just let him get swallowed up by Justice with a whimper. Instead of the railing and screaming. Prettier but no less horrifying. 

Truth be told the rivalry path is only as abusive as you make it. My aggressive Hawke railed on him. My diplomatic Hawke just sighed and tried to point out the flaws in his logic that Justice wasn't a demon.

You can make it ugly on the rivalry path. But you can make it ugly on the friendship path.


Agreed.  And as always, so much of it depends on the Hawke.

I wouldn't say my friendship path turned out all that much better than the rivalry path given my Hawke's personality.  She loved Anders so much, loved him with all her heart.  And she WAS a stabilizing force in the relationship.  But Anders gave her the justification she needed to unleash a lifetime of pent-up fear and hatred against the templars.  She became so dangerous, even more so than Anders, because she's not possessed.  She is patient and calculating and utterly ruthless.  It's kind of scary watching them feed off each other when they go all violent revolutionary.

#22023
nodice

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thenyxie wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

M!Hawke's line deliveries = 100% better


You know, I didn't like him in the beginning so much, but then I got to Act III and even my "Investigate" options were coming out sarcastic, and I was cracking up left and right. He was completely awesome in Act III, especially in the scene where he and Isabela talked after she got Castillon's ship, and kudos to the both of them, because I could totally hear the affection they had for each other behind the joking/sarcasm. Now I'm playing another F!Hawke and I miss his voice. She's... just not as good.


What on Thedas are you talking about? Lady Hawke's way better. There's actual variety in her voice unlike Mr. Hawke. 

Also, the toenail article :pinched::huh: 

#22024
Dreaming-in-Shadow

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AnniLau wrote...

Not Anders-related, but having seen Fox mocked here on more than one occasion, I just have to point this out.

Pink nail polish => gender confusion


...

I'm not even going to try. 

Surely if everybody overlooked things such as: You're male, I'm female (and the various stupid stereotypes) and instead focused on seeing the person, wouldn't the world be somewhat better?

 *gasp* This must be one of the IRL examples of mage-oppression! ...I'm kidding. (mostly) [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

#22025
Miri1984

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ipgd wrote...

Both the friendship and rivalry paths are pretty damn depressing. You're either enabling him until he completely gives himself to Justice, or antagonizing him until Justice becomes so corrupted and discordant that he cannot contain him. In both cases, old Anders is basically dead; it's just a matter of whether you think it's better that he fade away peacefully or fight to retain his individuality to the end.


I don't agree with this on the friendship path. I don't think he HAS completely given himself to Justice, any more than he already has, that is. Old Anders was dead the moment he let Justice in - I think that's pretty clear from the short story. He's ALREADY gone, and trying to get him back just doesn't work, is NEVER going to work. On the friendship path you're not letting him "give in" to Justice, you're accepting the new Anders.

That's my two cents, any way.