Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Merrill is so freaking adorable.
But I don't know if I should compare her to a puppy that mauls people or a rabid koala.
You know...really sweet but...A BLOOD MAGE. -gasps-
I loved when she was talking to Anders and she was like, "All spirits are dangerous. I realized this...I'm sorry you didn't."
Poor Anders, he got told by the rabid koala of my party.
ipgd wrote...
I like female Hawke better for diplomatic, but Boulton owns snark!Hawke so hard. I also think Wyatt's voice is a little too light and girly for aggressive.nodice wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
@nodice:
Did you just say Dude Hawke has no variety in his voice?
I can no longer take you seriously. At all.
Did you before
Ok, let's say with Lady Hawke if feel I'm listening to a voice actress, Mr. Hawke seems a bit...underwhelming in comparison. I just think he's saying everything with the same tone, pretty much. Something's not just as good, to me at leastI've seen the romance scenes too and Lady Hawke just rocks.
Someone made a vid.
I think it was a heart option though.
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
LMFAO nice.
I'm sorry, Anders. I love you...so much.
But...you will never be Gerard Butler. -passes out from the sheer hotness of that man-
I would do things to Gerard Butler. Terrible things.
CatOfEvilGenius wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
On rivalry you're trying to rip the two of them apart. It's probably not gonna work but you don't want Anders to lose himself to a demon.
To be honest, I do believe blood magic can assist with that. (and remember, the school itself isn't evil, but I have some theories regarding the reason mages who use it typically go bonkers)
Blood magic is capable of tearing the veil and controling things (maybe demons, if the mage in question has a powerful enough will). Obviously, on the friendship path, Anders is far too... fused with Vengeance, and tearing them appart (if possible) will kill or damage him. (Or worse, turn him tranquil)
But what if there was a way to weaken the demon or return him to Justice?
Obviously, there would need to be some way of lessening Ander's rage and resentment towards the Chantry. The problem with the virtue of Justice and the sins of Vengeance (Wrath/Rage. Does that make Vengeance a powerful rage demon...?) is that it's easy for the two to change or for the fine line between them to blur (after all, Justice is a human concept, and is unique to every person.)
I wonder if Justice is confused being outside of the fade?
I mean the mortal world and the Fade are like opposites.
Mortal world: The people's minds, hearts and emotions are ever changing. They're all virtues and all sins at once, shaped by thought and will. The world is static and unchanging.
Fade: The inhabitants are static. They're preset sins or virtues, and rarely change. The world however, is shaped by thought and will.
I don't think Justice can comprehend humanity, or what went wrong...
(Speaking of which, the opposite of Wrath is Compassion, which would suit my Hawke quite well. Maybe I should get her possessed... XD)
...have I gone off topic here?
Anders is always on topic.
And interesting. Bloodmagic is obscenely powerful. And I am fond of Anders dominating over Justice myself. Not in that way ya pervs.
I would prefer that they merge completely, and Justice have a say in things, once he heals and itsn't Vengeance. Remember what Anders said after almost killing Ella? About watching through your eyes, but not being able to control what your body does? He said Justice must feel like that much of the time. I don't want that for Justice. I don't know if Justice can comprehend the material world, or the human mind, as a human does, but he was curios about it, and did enjoy bits of it in Awakenings.
Ryzaki wrote...
Miri1984 wrote...
He says it so many times, on both friendship and rivalry. Justice IS him. He is Justice. And I know it's dodgy, because there are traits that belong to both of them that surface at different times, but that's the same as anyone else out there - I have angry traits and happy traits and it often depends entirely on how much sleep I've had which person I am on any given day. The only difference for Anders is that he has a name for it.
He is NOT Justice no matter how much he says it. They are two beings. They have always been two beings.
Your angry traits and happy traits don't have their own form that don't rely on you.
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Merrill is so freaking adorable.
But I don't know if I should compare her to a puppy that mauls people or a rabid koala.
You know...really sweet but...A BLOOD MAGE. -gasps-
I loved when she was talking to Anders and she was like, "All spirits are dangerous. I realized this...I'm sorry you didn't."
Poor Anders, he got told by the rabid koala of my party.
Which is funny because he spends the game nagging her for her choice.
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Merrill is so freaking adorable.
But I don't know if I should compare her to a puppy that mauls people or a rabid koala.
You know...really sweet but...A BLOOD MAGE. -gasps-
I loved when she was talking to Anders and she was like, "All spirits are dangerous. I realized this...I'm sorry you didn't."
Poor Anders, he got told by the rabid koala of my party.
I'm pretty sure blood magic is just an alternative power source and not actually a whole type of magic. Pretty much any of the stuff that can be done with blood magic can be done with lyrium, but blood is a much more readily accessible resource for obvious reasons.Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
On rivalry you're trying to rip the two of them apart. It's probably not gonna work but you don't want Anders to lose himself to a demon.
To be honest, I do believe blood magic can assist with that. (and remember, the school itself isn't evil, but I have some theories regarding the reason mages who use it typically go bonkers)
Blood magic is capable of tearing the veil and controling things (maybe demons, if the mage in question has a powerful enough will). Obviously, on the friendship path, Anders is far too... fused with Vengeance, and tearing them appart (if possible) will kill or damage him. (Or worse, turn him tranquil)
The girliness is fine, it just kinda makes her less threatening than aggressive m!Hawke.nodice wrote...
I agree, sarcastic suits him. Then again I think Wyatt was very good at all the options. It actually shocked me, I was deliberately choosing different options in a row and the complete change in tone was so radical, it made her sound totally crazy :happy: The smooth, friendly option is sometimes a little too sugary to my tastes, but I suppose that's the point of it, the tones to be clearly what they are. Her aggressive surprised me the most. That one line during The Long Road when Hawke can say she's interested in Aveline, she sounds so bitter and hurt
I actually like she's girly. It's a nice contrast to the fighter side of her.
Modifié par ipgd, 12 avril 2011 - 10:55 .
Miri1984 wrote...
They were two beings before they merged. Now they're two aspects of the ONE person. In my opinion any way. And it's hard to try to equate his situation with anything in the real world because Thedas... isn't.
And actually, I disagree. There is an abstract concept of "Anger" that totally exists outside of me. That Justice is an embodiment of that trait is peculiar to Thedas, but concepts in this world have their own kind of form.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 11:00 .
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
CatOfEvilGenius wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
On rivalry you're trying to rip the two of them apart. It's probably not gonna work but you don't want Anders to lose himself to a demon.
To be honest, I do believe blood magic can assist with that. (and remember, the school itself isn't evil, but I have some theories regarding the reason mages who use it typically go bonkers)
Blood magic is capable of tearing the veil and controling things (maybe demons, if the mage in question has a powerful enough will). Obviously, on the friendship path, Anders is far too... fused with Vengeance, and tearing them appart (if possible) will kill or damage him. (Or worse, turn him tranquil)
But what if there was a way to weaken the demon or return him to Justice?
Obviously, there would need to be some way of lessening Ander's rage and resentment towards the Chantry. The problem with the virtue of Justice and the sins of Vengeance (Wrath/Rage. Does that make Vengeance a powerful rage demon...?) is that it's easy for the two to change or for the fine line between them to blur (after all, Justice is a human concept, and is unique to every person.)
I wonder if Justice is confused being outside of the fade?
I mean the mortal world and the Fade are like opposites.
Mortal world: The people's minds, hearts and emotions are ever changing. They're all virtues and all sins at once, shaped by thought and will. The world is static and unchanging.
Fade: The inhabitants are static. They're preset sins or virtues, and rarely change. The world however, is shaped by thought and will.
I don't think Justice can comprehend humanity, or what went wrong...
(Speaking of which, the opposite of Wrath is Compassion, which would suit my Hawke quite well. Maybe I should get her possessed... XD)
...have I gone off topic here?
Anders is always on topic.
And interesting. Bloodmagic is obscenely powerful. And I am fond of Anders dominating over Justice myself. Not in that way ya pervs.
I would prefer that they merge completely, and Justice have a say in things, once he heals and itsn't Vengeance. Remember what Anders said after almost killing Ella? About watching through your eyes, but not being able to control what your body does? He said Justice must feel like that much of the time. I don't want that for Justice. I don't know if Justice can comprehend the material world, or the human mind, as a human does, but he was curios about it, and did enjoy bits of it in Awakenings.
Hmm... maybe as Ander's rage and hate corrupted Justice, Hawke's love (and compassion?) for Anders (if (s)he has that. XD) can help Anders, and throuh that "purify" Vengeance?
...what? I'm a hopeless romantic! Lemme alooooneee... XD
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Merrill is so freaking adorable.
But I don't know if I should compare her to a puppy that mauls people or a rabid koala.
You know...really sweet but...A BLOOD MAGE. -gasps-
I loved when she was talking to Anders and she was like, "All spirits are dangerous. I realized this...I'm sorry you didn't."
Poor Anders, he got told by the rabid koala of my party.
Which is funny because he spends the game nagging her for her choice.
I think I've come in terms with the fact that Anders is possibly THE biggest hypocrite in the game.
Dunizel wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Miri1984 wrote...
He says it so many times, on both friendship and rivalry. Justice IS him. He is Justice. And I know it's dodgy, because there are traits that belong to both of them that surface at different times, but that's the same as anyone else out there - I have angry traits and happy traits and it often depends entirely on how much sleep I've had which person I am on any given day. The only difference for Anders is that he has a name for it.
He is NOT Justice no matter how much he says it. They are two beings. They have always been two beings.
Your angry traits and happy traits don't have their own form that don't rely on you.
I am with Ryzaki here.
It is just speculation of course, but I think that Anders isn't a reliable source when talking about his "relationship" with Justice. Sometimes he says he can distinguish their thoughts, sometimes not. We cannot even say how much he is influenced without even knowing it, without feeling it. Even Merril was influenced by the demon that allowed her the use of blood magic, and she wasn't an abomination.
This will be a matter of debate for ages though, because I don't think there is an objective truith. Everyone can interpret it as they feel like
DeaHamlet wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Merrill is so freaking adorable.
But I don't know if I should compare her to a puppy that mauls people or a rabid koala.
You know...really sweet but...A BLOOD MAGE. -gasps-
I loved when she was talking to Anders and she was like, "All spirits are dangerous. I realized this...I'm sorry you didn't."
Poor Anders, he got told by the rabid koala of my party.
LOLz. That's snappy of her after betraying me to the demon every single time in the Fade. TSK TSK Merrill, a bit hypocritical!
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
(snip)
Hmm... maybe as Ander's rage and hate corrupted Justice, Hawke's love (and compassion?) for Anders (if (s)he has that. XD) can help Anders, and throuh that "purify" Vengeance?
...what? I'm a hopeless romantic! Lemme alooooneee... XD
Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 avril 2011 - 11:06 .
ipgd wrote...
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
On rivalry you're trying to rip the two of them apart. It's probably not gonna work but you don't want Anders to lose himself to a demon.
To be honest, I do believe blood magic can assist with that. (and remember, the school itself isn't evil, but I have some theories regarding the reason mages who use it typically go bonkers)
Blood magic is capable of tearing the veil and controling things (maybe demons, if the mage in question has a powerful enough will). Obviously, on the friendship path, Anders is far too... fused with Vengeance, and tearing them appart (if possible) will kill or damage him. (Or worse, turn him tranquil)
I'm pretty sure blood magic is just an alternative power source and not actually a whole type of magic. Pretty much any of the stuff that can be done with blood magic can be done with lyrium, but blood is a much more readily accessible resource for obvious reasons.
Sialater wrote...
By the time the Rivalrymance ending rolls around, Anders is broken. (Now, Ryz, hear me out before you yell at me.)
Hawke has spend the past 6 years telling him that the defining moment in his life, when he helped his friend with the best of intentions, doomed them both to the worst kind of existence. Neither Anders nor Justice ever even dreamed this would happen. They went into this symbiotic relationship, each thinking that they'd be different. The worst couldn't possibly happen to them.
They were wrong.
Anders' unresolved anger, apparent even in Awakening, is there, simmering under the surface. A year in solitary, pre-Awakening, didn't help. Neither did Anders apparent transfer within the Grey Wardens away from the protection of OUR Warden, and back under a Templar's thumb. Slowly, Justice started to become infected with
Anders' anger to the point where he slaughtered his brothers in arms.
THIS is Anders' first wake-up call that **** ain't right.
He leaves for Kirkwall to either hide or track down Karl or both. And ends up getting angrier when he realizes his old friend and lover is bait in a trap for him, and only by the grace of the Maker and Hawke that he wasn't trapped in it. This is the second time he loses control to Justice.
The third time is that mage girl who's name utterly escapes me. I've never let her die, so I can't say what he does there, but this is clearly warning sign number three. Anders is losing it.
He dials back for a while, whether because he's content with Hawke, or she really is the distraction Justice claims, is unclear since we're not in Anders' head and we're not given a lot to go on. But Justice is quiet for a time. Probably because nearly killing/or killing that mage scared the hell out of Anders and he manages to wrest semi-permanent control back away.
Hawke, on the rivalrymance path, spends almost every moment in game that they're together underscoring how wrong he was. (Unfortunately, you can't do this without bashing mages in general which is stupid.) This judgment by Hawke starts wearing him down and he begins to question everything. This is the point where Hawke starts breaking him.
The Rivalrymance is brutal. There is no sugarcoating it, you're calling out the person you love (as Hawke) on his **** in the most blunt fashion possible. Sometimes, you're downright cruel. Does he deserve this? I don't know. Depends on your view of abominations.
Anders loves Hawke. Any gender, any morality, he loves Hawke. The Rivalrymance may be tough love, but it's borderline abusive. By the time he emotionally blackmails Hawke into helping (or not), he's ready to die. He's not
suicidal, but he's convinced he's no longer deserving of life. Blowing up the Chantry is Justice for the mages because it forces them to fight. They can no longer be passive. As Justice says in Awakening, "Why don't you strike a blow against your oppressors and ensure they cannot do this to anyone else?" If the mages rise up, they can't be unilaterally oppressed any more. (Not my logic -- hell it's not even Anders' logic, this is Justice, remember?) Once at max Rivalry, Anders tries to undo the bomb, but Justice, now corrupted entirely into Vengeance, takes over and prevents him from doing anything. Couple this with the mage underground imploding due to Grace's stupidity and you have an incredibly desperate man and corrupted spirit.
The Chantry goes boom.
Now, the hard part. Anders, by now, is a broken man. He's clearly lost control of Justice/Vengeance, not once, but four separate times, if not more. After all, he's been having blackouts with Justice/Vengeance doing Maker knows what while he's out. He knows he cannot be trusted. He no longer even trusts himself. And Hawke, the one rock he's come to depend on, the one constant in his personal hell, hasn't killed him. In fact, Hawke offers him a chance at redemption, a chance to try to make up for the ultimate crime of becoming an Abomination. Restore
order to the Circle. Annul the blood mages (whom he doesn't agree with anyway). Try to save the City from splintering into lawlessness. His will is gone. All he has left is Hawke. He doesn't even have himself.
Now, the problem with this is a lot of it is dependent upon subtext in a broken game path. I reserve the right to change my analysis if I ever get to actually play the full, unbugged Rivalry path.
Do I agree that this is the best path for him? No. But I do think it's within character.
Ryzaki wrote...
But they aren't the same being. They are in one body but they are not the same person. Anders even says Justice may feel trapped inside him leashed tohis decisions. If they were the same being why would Justice feel that way?
Anger doesn't talk to people and hear lyrium speak to it. Anger doesn't think. (Or if it does never bother saying anything to anyone else). You may say something in anger but anger itself didn't tell you to say it.
Justice is a different being. It's not remotely comparale to having a trait because Anders originally met Justice in the Fade. He traveled and became friends with Justice. Justice inhabitied Kristoff's corpse and moved it around even though the original inhabitant was dead. Corpses feel no emotion. Corpses don't think. Corpses feel no need for justice. Or was Justice one with Kristoff's dead mind in Awakening?
It's not an emotion. It is a spiritual being. And he and Anders are not the same person.
Anders deludes himself on that (and even breaks the delusion himself several times) to keep himself sane. He thinks if he claims that Justice and he are one he can pretend to be in complete control. You notice he drops the "Justice and I" are one spiel when s*** hits the fan. (Unless on the friendship path where he continues to delude himself).
Ryzaki wrote...
Miri1984 wrote...
They were two beings before they merged. Now they're two aspects of the ONE person. In my opinion any way. And it's hard to try to equate his situation with anything in the real world because Thedas... isn't.
And actually, I disagree. There is an abstract concept of "Anger" that totally exists outside of me. That Justice is an embodiment of that trait is peculiar to Thedas, but concepts in this world have their own kind of form.
But they aren't the same being. They are in one body but they are not the same person. Anders even says Justice may feel trapped inside him leashed tohis decisions. If they were the same being why would Justice feel that way?
Anger doesn't talk to people and hear lyrium speak to it. Anger doesn't think. (Or if it does never bother saying anything to anyone else). You may say something in anger but anger itself didn't tell you to say it.
Justice is a different being. It's not remotely comparale to having a trait because Anders originally met Justice in the Fade. He traveled and became friends with Justice. Justice inhabitied Kristoff's corpse and moved it around even though the original inhabitant was dead. Corpses feel no emotion. Corpses don't think. Corpses feel no need for justice. Or was Justice one with Kristoff's dead mind in Awakening?
It's not an emotion. It is a spiritual being. And he and Anders are not the same person.
Anders deludes himself on that (and even breaks the delusion himself several times) to keep himself sane. He thinks if he claims that Justice and he are one he can pretend to be in complete control. You notice he drops the "Justice and I" are one spiel when s*** hits the fan. (Unless on the friendship path where he continues to delude himself).
.
Batteries wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Ehh. I'm not fangirling over Adam Howden.
First of all, I cannot navigate Twitter, so I avoid it lest my brain explode.
Second of all, I try not to even see what VAs look like, or else their face will replace the face of the character, which is not acceptable.
Third of all....just...not interested.
Uggh same.
Plus I'd feel like a creepy creeper.
CatOfEvilGenius wrote...
Dunizel wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Miri1984 wrote...
He says it so many times, on both friendship and rivalry. Justice IS him. He is Justice. And I know it's dodgy, because there are traits that belong to both of them that surface at different times, but that's the same as anyone else out there - I have angry traits and happy traits and it often depends entirely on how much sleep I've had which person I am on any given day. The only difference for Anders is that he has a name for it.
He is NOT Justice no matter how much he says it. They are two beings. They have always been two beings.
Your angry traits and happy traits don't have their own form that don't rely on you.
I am with Ryzaki here.
It is just speculation of course, but I think that Anders isn't a reliable source when talking about his "relationship" with Justice. Sometimes he says he can distinguish their thoughts, sometimes not. We cannot even say how much he is influenced without even knowing it, without feeling it. Even Merril was influenced by the demon that allowed her the use of blood magic, and she wasn't an abomination.
This will be a matter of debate for ages though, because I don't think there is an objective truith. Everyone can interpret it as they feel like
I'm still trying to figure out where his memory lapses come from. Is it Justice takes over, Anders is out cold, along for the ride, so he doesn't remember? Is it Anders/Justice does something awful that he doesn't want to remember, so he doesn't? Something in between? My personal theory is that the merge wasn't 100% complete, and Anders/Justice is a being often at odds with himself, but I won't argue with other views.
I think he only mentions the memory lapses at the end of his Act 3 personal quest, and only if you pick certain dialogue choices, so I'm not sure everyone's even seen that bit of his dialogue.
Ryzaki wrote...
The only betrayal in the fade that really pissed me off was Fenris.
I just wanted "REALLY? All your harping about mages and demons and you're tryingto cut a deal? WTF man!"
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