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[Heidenreich]

Anders ran away from the Ferelden circle. The Ferelden Circle with comfy dorms and libraries full of books, and out door activities and an active role in day to day Ferelden life and politics. Yet he ran away because he felt like a prisoner.

Then he came to Kirkwall.The Kirkwall Circle is LITTERALLY a prison The Mage Circle in Ferelden is a 5 star hotel by comparison. The man already hated the "mages prison", the very idea that there literally WAS one was just over-the-top to much for him (and Vengence).

His friend and lover was made tranquil for absolutely no reason, as were many other full harrowed sane mages. They were locked up in jail cells, literally. Even your own sister! And she seems to be the only sane one.

My Roguish F!Hawk burned the whole MF down, scooped up her broken man, and walked off into the sunset. *chestthump*

I love anders *sniffles*

My Warden may have been a faithful andrastian, queen of Ferelden, and an all over soft touch for goofballs..
but my rogue Hawke is the daughter, sister, and 'wife' of a mage. And she'll knife anyone who threatens to harm them.

Modifié par Heidenreich, 11 mars 2011 - 05:56 .

[pprrff]

Ok, this game is seriously messed up, in a exciting and intriguing way. Who knew that agreeing with your companion is the WRONG thing to do. I can't believe I got used by Anders like that, here I was thinking that I am helping out a good friend, only to have him killing arguably the most moral character in the whole game.

[syllogi]

Lady Jess wrote...

Edit: I'm not sure my Amell import even worked. You'd THINK someone would have said "Hey is your Uncle related to that Hero chick??"

When you're asking Leandra about the Amell family, she mentions her cousin Revka, who was the mother of the Amell Warden.  Apparently the family's reputation in Kirkwall went downhill soon after that child's birth.  

[SurelyForth]

pprrff wrote...

Ok, this game is seriously messed up, in a exciting and intriguing way. Who knew that agreeing with your companion is the WRONG thing to do. I can't believe I got used by Anders like that, here I was thinking that I am helping out a good friend, only to have him killing arguably the most moral character in the whole game.

I don't know. Is it moral to stand by and watch someone under your authority abuse their power more and more and do absolutely nothing? 

[snarkycleric]

I agree so much. DA2 is just way darker than DA:O and I think it was the moment they decided to make the story more personal.

I think the DA:O story - even with the sidequests - there was pretty much 'the world's screwed if we don't stop this, but there's a chance; we'll take it.' And there was a glimmer of hope in the sidequests. Awakening had it, with Sir Alec the shepherd-turned-soldier. Origins had it too. You could make life a little better, sometimes, genuinely, without anything bad coming from it. DA2 doesn't have that, I think. Not nearly as much.

[magicwins]

snarkycleric wrote...

I agree so much. DA2 is just way darker than DA:O and I think it was the moment they decided to make the story more personal.

I think the DA:O story - even with the sidequests - there was pretty much 'the world's screwed if we don't stop this, but there's a chance; we'll take it.' And there was a glimmer of hope in the sidequests. Awakening had it, with Sir Alec the shepherd-turned-soldier. Origins had it too. You could make life a little better, sometimes, genuinely, without anything bad coming from it. DA2 doesn't have that, I think. Not nearly as much.

No matter which side you take, the outcome is the same. The world is screwed, and your 'Championing' changes nothing.

My favourite RPGs were KOTOR and Fable. You know why? Because they made me feel badass. Hawke doesn't right any wrongs, doesn't champion any causes, never actually accomplishes anything. Sure, I saved a girl from a psychotic murderer, but I can't resolve the bloody conflict tearing the place apart. In fact, now that I'm on my 2nd playthrough, I feel even more powerless because I look at Anders and know there is no way I can attack him and stop this s***storm before it begins.

[M8DMAN]

Anders betrayed my trust, he had to start a freaking war which my Hawke was trying to prevent. Thousands upon thousands of people will die because of what he did.


He is on the same level as hitler in my book. I'm glad my character stabbed that rat bastard in the back!

Modifié par M8DMAN, 11 mars 2011 - 06:29 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

SurelyForth wrote...

pprrff wrote...

Ok, this game is seriously messed up, in a exciting and intriguing way. Who knew that agreeing with your companion is the WRONG thing to do. I can't believe I got used by Anders like that, here I was thinking that I am helping out a good friend, only to have him killing arguably the most moral character in the whole game.

I don't know. Is it moral to stand by and watch someone under your authority abuse their power more and more and do absolutely nothing? 

Of all of our inequities, ignorance may be the worst ... to quote a favorite song of mine.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 11 mars 2011 - 06:34 .

[EnchantedEyes1]

nenosronhir wrote...

No. I actually don't think Anders' actions make it worse for mages. Those that refused Chantry rule were already hunted -and killed- if they opposed the Templars. Those that did not were imprisoned, lobotomized, isolated, encouraged to hate themselves and everything they are because magic is a sin in the Maker's gaze. Life in a Circle is not living; the Circle mages that think so don't know any other life. They are feared and rejected by society because the Chantry deems them dangerous creatures - not people.

Anders removes the Chantry and the Grand Cleric with it because she and the Chantry are the only chance at a peaceful compromise; this is the only way the mages can gain the upper hand. The right to command the Templars lies with the Chantry. The people look to the Chantry for guidance. Remove that element, force everyone to stop and think for themselves, and yes, you get chaos, bloodshed - but therein lies the shift in the balance.

The peaceful compromise the Grand Cleric would have put forth would only have seen the mages return to subjugation. Even if, IF her decision favoured the mages, the power of that choice would have been in the hands of the Grand Cleric, and the Chantry. It would not have been the mages deciding to take freedom - it would have been an allowance from the Chantry, enabling it to maintain control.

Um. *shifty eyes* So, too late for a "IMO/YMMV" disclaimer? >A<;

It is really tragic that it comes to this, but I tend to agree that without a catastrophic event, real change would not be possible. Both the Chantry and the Templars hold too much power and would not likely be inspired to make a real change. Whether Anders' actions result in a positive change is yet to be seen.

In remembering Anders' conversations with Justice, I remember thinking that Justice was very aggressive in his stance. Although I've no doubt that Anders' anger about the treatment of mages was partially responsible for the transformation to vengeance, I think Justice was just this side of the line himself.

My mage FHawke just experienced her first kiss with Anders last night and the full on romance. That kiss ... the passion ... I could feel it through my TV. I must have replayed it at least 8 times before going to bed

She won't abandon him but will see it through to the end.

[Lady Jess]

panamakira wrote...


Agreed. I would hate to get into another character's story when both the Warden and Hawke's story feel incomplete. I hope DA3 or even an expansion we at least get more Lady Hawke. She's awesome. She needs to meet my warden.

Yeah Varric's banters save the day. I have most of the time Anders, Fenris and Varric in my party so you can tell how that goes. Fenris and Anders don't agree on anything so thats clear. Varric is there though to make it better and my Lady Hawke. She's hilarious.

I love so much that Hawke is involved in the banter at times. like telling Isabela and Aveline "ENOUGH!"

I just wish I could wuffle Anders some more.

[SurelyForth]

M8DMAN wrote...

Anders betrayed my trust, he had to start a freaking war which my Hawke was trying to prevent. Thousands upon thousands of people will die because of what he did.


He is on the same level as hitler in my book. I'm glad my character stabbed that rat bastard in the back!

Actually, Anders just blew up a building. It was Meredith's reaction to the bombing that actually gave it purpose. She could have went the other way, she could have taken him into custody (since he was right there, taking full blame) and minimized the fallout. Instead she went to the extreme, just as he knew she would. 

[pprrff]

SurelyForth wrote...

pprrff wrote...

Ok, this game is seriously messed up, in a exciting and intriguing way. Who knew that agreeing with your companion is the WRONG thing to do. I can't believe I got used by Anders like that, here I was thinking that I am helping out a good friend, only to have him killing arguably the most moral character in the whole game.

I don't know. Is it moral to stand by and watch someone under your authority abuse their power more and more and do absolutely nothing? 

I regard her, along with the Viscount as the most moral characters. The are willing to bend principle in order preserve lives, where as Meridith and Anders are willing to sacrafice lives in order to preserve pinciple. That's how I interepret the situation anyway, and I think that the Grand Cleric has done what she could to rein in the templar.

Modifié par pprrff, 11 mars 2011 - 07:01 .

[nuclearpengu1nn]

guys i need help finding Anders
can anyone tell me where in Lowtown is Anders?

[syllogi]

GreyWarden36 wrote...

guys i need help finding Anders
can anyone tell me where in Lowtown is Anders?

Have the "Business Discussion" conversation with Varric, and then go to Lirene's Imports in Lowtown to find out where he is in Darktown.  His location will be on the Darktown map once that's done.

[ashez2ashes]

I know this is old hat now but....... WTF BIOWARE.  Why did you change Anders voice????

[Rinji the Bearded]

SurelyForth wrote...

M8DMAN wrote...

Anders betrayed my trust, he had to start a freaking war which my Hawke was trying to prevent. Thousands upon thousands of people will die because of what he did.


He is on the same level as hitler in my book. I'm glad my character stabbed that rat bastard in the back!

Actually, Anders just blew up a building. It was Meredith's reaction to the bombing that actually gave it purpose. She could have went the other way, she could have taken him into custody (since he was right there, taking full blame) and minimized the fallout. Instead she went to the extreme, just as he knew she would. 

This is very true.  And Orsino wasn't taking his side, either.  If she had been smarter, she could have united everyone for the Templar cause right then and there, saying, "I have caught the mage that killed the Grand Cleric and destroyed the Chantry, and this is why we are here" ... but she went for the most extreme option possible.  And there was no Grand Cleric there to stop her from finally doing what she had wanted to do all along.  Anders granted her authority when he did what he did.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 11 mars 2011 - 07:15 .

[M8DMAN]

SurelyForth wrote...

M8DMAN wrote...

Anders betrayed my trust, he had to start a freaking war which my Hawke was trying to prevent. Thousands upon thousands of people will die because of what he did.


He is on the same level as hitler in my book. I'm glad my character stabbed that rat bastard in the back!

Actually, Anders just blew up a building. It was Meredith's reaction to the bombing that actually gave it purpose. She could have went the other way, she could have taken him into custody (since he was right there, taking full blame) and minimized the fallout. Instead she went to the extreme, just as he knew she would. 

He didn't just Blow Up a building he killed hundreds of innocent people just to start a war.  Even though My Hawke sided with the mages you have to be blind to see what he did as being right.

It's like Meredith said ''The Grand Cleric was murderd with magic" the people will be screaming for blood. Anders started a freaking domino effect that will lead to an all out world war.

Modifié par M8DMAN, 11 mars 2011 - 07:24 .

[panamakira]

snarkycleric wrote...

I agree so much. DA2 is just way darker than DA:O and I think it was the moment they decided to make the story more personal.

I think the DA:O story - even with the sidequests - there was pretty much 'the world's screwed if we don't stop this, but there's a chance; we'll take it.' And there was a glimmer of hope in the sidequests. Awakening had it, with Sir Alec the shepherd-turned-soldier. Origins had it too. You could make life a little better, sometimes, genuinely, without anything bad coming from it. DA2 doesn't have that, I think. Not nearly as much.

Yes. That would be my biggest concern with the story. In DA2 you could be potentially be making things worse but was there ever given a glint of hope? Like is anybody besides Anders ready to bring some better solutions to the problem than blowing every Chantry in Thedas? I felt like I was making everythng worse no matter what side I chose. Everything has an indication to end bad.

*sigh* we can only hope that in DA3 or an expansion will give us a more hopeful story/resolution. There was just so much angst I could deal with for more than 30hrs.



Edit:
For a champion I felt like I didn't accomplish anything.

Modifié par panamakira, 11 mars 2011 - 07:35 .

[M8DMAN]

So I just found out you can kill Anders if you side with the demon on the fade sidequest. So it true? If so how does it effect the ending?

[Rinji the Bearded]

No, you just boot him out of the Fade.

[HolyJellyfish]

I had a very interesting playthrough where from the beginning to towards the end of Act 3, I played an Apostate Mage named Andraste Hawke who was a total stalwart supporter of the Templars. It seemed like a huge contradiction, but considering her selfish personality, and the fact that every single mage seems to ruin her life, as well as Fenris' deep revelation about the torment of mages gone free, her actions seemed justified. She was sort of a twisted Rorsharch (Watchmen), whereas Anders was a lot like Ozymandias (Watchmen) where he was willing to take the blood of innocent lives on his own hands (So that no one else would have to) in order to start a revolution.

More ironically was that my Hawke Rival!Romanced him, mostly to keep a close eye on the dangerous apostate and hopefully change his mind from being crazy and killing people needlessly.

I had anticipated siding with the Templars from the very beginning, but once Anders committed his act, and Meredith's reaction (A total annulment - for the actions of ONE idiot), Hawke had a complete switch in morals and "Lept" as Flemeth would describe. Needless to say, she did not kill Anders for fear it would make him a Martyr, and prefered to usurp the influence he created around his name while keeping him very close to her hand.

Did anyone else go through a similar change of heart? Where they were originally rooting for the Mages and suddenly became Templar because of his actions? Or the opposite?

I just COULDN'T support the Templars after Meredith's reaction. She anticipated outright genocide, and that typically does not go well.

[Paraxial]

pprrff wrote...
... where as Meridith and Anders are willing to sacrafice lives in order to preserve pinciple...

This is what it breaks down to. In the end it is how far are you willing to go to further an ideal that you have in your head, and both Meredith and Anders have no issue with killing innocents. I dislike both of them equally. Whether or not you agree with the Chantry, the people in there were innocents. They had no part in any evil which Meredith was committing among the Circle, and they were largely working for peace. Killing innocents in any situation is horrible.

Bioware did a great job with this just let me say, they got people so emotionally involved in the plot and the characters that it is a bit intense. When the Chantry blew up I actually said "No!", and I then realized that I was yelling at my TV.

[HolyJellyfish]

M8DMAN wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

M8DMAN wrote...

Anders betrayed my trust, he had to start a freaking war which my Hawke was trying to prevent. Thousands upon thousands of people will die because of what he did.


He is on the same level as hitler in my book. I'm glad my character stabbed that rat bastard in the back!

Actually, Anders just blew up a building. It was Meredith's reaction to the bombing that actually gave it purpose. She could have went the other way, she could have taken him into custody (since he was right there, taking full blame) and minimized the fallout. Instead she went to the extreme, just as he knew she would. 

He didn't just Blow Up a building he killed hundreds of innocent people just to start a war.  Even though My Hawke sided with the mages you have to be blind to see what he did as being right.

It's like Meredith said ''The Grand Cleric was murderd with magic" the people will be screaming for blood. Anders started a freaking domino effect that will lead to an all out world war.

That's exactly what he anticipated. Change is better than no change at all, and from what I gather by Anders, the persecution of Mages has gone so far that Mages feel the only way to save their lives and escape is by deliberately turning to Blood Magic and Demons. If they had the same freedoms and rights that other free men had, Anders suggests that these darker methods would be more rare than they currently are. And if he is the only to have his blood stained by the lives of millions of people, Anders is willing. In many ways, the Templars are no better than the Tevinter Imperium. Look at Meredith and how far she was willing to go in order to maintain her political control. And it seems obvious at this point that Mages are no longer in danger of possession - so are Templars.

Besides. The violence was already there. The persecution was set in stone. Anders just gave it a push. If it wasn't going to be him, it was going to be someone else.

[leggywillow]

TeenZombie wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

Edit: I'm not sure my Amell import even worked. You'd THINK someone would have said "Hey is your Uncle related to that Hero chick??"

When you're asking Leandra about the Amell family, she mentions her cousin Revka, who was the mother of the Amell Warden.  Apparently the family's reputation in Kirkwall went downhill soon after that child's birth. 

That made me happy to find out my Warden's mother's name.  Didn't it imply that Revka had other children as well?  Anyway.  Back to Anders!

He is the most heartbreaking thing in any video game ever. 

[VampOrchid]

I don't feel like reading through all the pages...so this is what i want to know.

Is it possible to save Anders from justice? And how? Without killing him...?

And if you have a romance with Anders and another person, do they tell you to make a choice? Or a confrontation between the two?