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[Amondra]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Yeah I pointed out earlier that I thought with the ending of the game friendship wise(more with romancing) Anders and Justice calm down a bit, mostly Justice.  That is Anders needs to truly try to deal with his anger and not cover it up under a rug or Hawke, then the Justice we know and love would come back, he might be jadded but still better then nothing.  I really want to believe there is still a shred of Justice left of the spirit, and thats why he comes out when Anders looses it( as Anders feels helpless? because I think that is what he used to feel around tempalr's)  So Justice comes out trying to protect Anders.  In a sense they are destroying one another while trying to help each other....goodness they are a more tragic romance then Hawk/Anders....

Also...I wanted Justice to like Hawke...I wanted Justice/Anders sexy time >_>

Virtues and Sins are technically decided by us, right? Especially Justice (which is the virtue closest to being a sin...)

If Justice is calm, and Anders learns to handle his own sense of justice... maybe we can get them back to a somewhat calmer, reasonable, non-Chantry-exploding state! (Please?)
(Then again, Justice was never great at reasoning...)

I miss the banter between the two.  
Such as: "Apathy is a weakness. <_<"
"So is death! I'm just saying! :D"
Hawke, Anders and Justice/Vengeance make a very interesting love-triangle. I remember during The Last Straw, and Hawke just got this *not impressed* look on her face and she goes:

"Did that spirit put you up to this?" She sounded like she was an angry housewife accusing him of cheating or something. XD

Hawke: Anders... I'm not sure I like all these things I'm hearing about you and this spirit! Remember, nothing is more important than our love! NOTHING. (And don't you dare forget it!!)
Justice: Anders, end this facade now! She is a distraction! I am so much better than she is!!! I can give you more than she can!!! 
Anders: ...Maker, I need a drink! <_<

Spiritual threesome in the Fade? Yes please. 

I will never look at the banter the same again!!  Well like the qoute driving my fanfic(which is in my sig) mortals draw line what we see as what.  Justice is a big one, for all we know and Anders knows, Justice might still think he is Justice because he IS.  Who are we to say when a spirit becomes another? Justice is a gray, and he is an absolute in a world of change, put into a world that is absolute but the things in it are always changing, and so are their views.  That alone has to be maddening to him.  He is Justice absolute he is the idea, before twisted by a mortal thought.  

They did mention that Justice merging with Anders was intimate, maybe he is actually a little jealous of loosing Anders to something he knows he can't compete with.  Also if Justice is new to feeling Rage and Desire at their finest, that also might make him hard to deal with.  He was only getting hints of Kristoff's feelings.  But Anders is alive and those feelings are real and up front.  It could be over whelming him.

Then there is Wynne....where is she to sort this boy out...or maybe Flemeth?

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

CatOfEvilGenius wrote...

 If someone finds the black/white/red dying Anders revived by Ser-Pounce and the Warden-Commander, they will have my undying love, or brownies, their choice.

You mean this?

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Amondra wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Yeah I pointed out earlier that I thought with the ending of the game friendship wise(more with romancing) Anders and Justice calm down a bit, mostly Justice.  That is Anders needs to truly try to deal with his anger and not cover it up under a rug or Hawke, then the Justice we know and love would come back, he might be jadded but still better then nothing.  I really want to believe there is still a shred of Justice left of the spirit, and thats why he comes out when Anders looses it( as Anders feels helpless? because I think that is what he used to feel around tempalr's)  So Justice comes out trying to protect Anders.  In a sense they are destroying one another while trying to help each other....goodness they are a more tragic romance then Hawk/Anders....

Also...I wanted Justice to like Hawke...I wanted Justice/Anders sexy time >_>

Virtues and Sins are technically decided by us, right? Especially Justice (which is the virtue closest to being a sin...)

If Justice is calm, and Anders learns to handle his own sense of justice... maybe we can get them back to a somewhat calmer, reasonable, non-Chantry-exploding state! (Please?)
(Then again, Justice was never great at reasoning...)

I miss the banter between the two.  
Such as: "Apathy is a weakness. <_<"
"So is death! I'm just saying! :D"

Hawke, Anders and Justice/Vengeance make a very interesting love-triangle. I remember during The Last Straw, and Hawke just got this *not impressed* look on her face and she goes:

"Did that spirit put you up to this?" She sounded like she was an angry housewife accusing him of cheating or something. XD

Hawke: Anders... I'm not sure I like all these things I'm hearing about you and this spirit! Remember, nothing is more important than our love! NOTHING. (And don't you dare forget it!!)
Justice: Anders, end this facade now! She is a distraction! I am so much better than she is!!! I can give you more than she can!!! 
Anders: ...Maker, I need a drink! <_<

Spiritual threesome in the Fade? Yes please. 

I will never look at the banter the same again!!  Well like the qoute driving my fanfic(which is in my sig) mortals draw line what we see as what.  Justice is a big one, for all we know and Anders knows, Justice might still think he is Justice because he IS.  Who are we to say when a spirit becomes another? Justice is a gray, and he is an absolute in a world of change, put into a world that is absolute but the things in it are always changing, and so are their views.  That alone has to be maddening to him.  He is Justice absolute he is the idea, before twisted by a mortal thought.  

They did mention that Justice merging with Anders was intimate, maybe he is actually a little jealous of loosing Anders to something he knows he can't compete with.  Also if Justice is new to feeling Rage and Desire at their finest, that also might make him hard to deal with.  He was only getting hints of Kristoff's feelings.  But Anders is alive and those feelings are real and up front.  It could be over whelming him.

Then there is Wynne....where is she to sort this boy out...or maybe Flemeth?

Virtues and their opposite vices are so alike and so easily twisted. Psychology doesn't like us. 
I see no difference between Justice and Vengeance, personally.
A death is a death, regardless of cause. Nothing changes that.

I think in an earlier post yesterday, I mentioned that the physical world and the fade and pretty much opposites, which must be confusing for spirits and demons. (Mortals are confused by the fade, why should spirits be different?)

Wynne wasn't quite the same, I think. Plus, by now I expect she's dead.

Flemeth is tricky. She probably does know a way for him to deal (if the codex is anything to go by, she's in near enough the same situation... sort of.), but she'd need a good reason to help, and what would she want in return...?

Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 13 avril 2011 - 09:37 .

[Amondra]

You to deliver another amulet? I could see it "I feel like this has been done before..."

Well Justice. Vengeance, and Retribution are all from the same tree if you ask me. The become one another, based on the person. I sorta feel like Justice was more on a retributive kick then a vengeance personally. As he seemed to be seeking both justice and vengeance by the end of the game.

I agree with the spirits in the mortal realm, all the more reason my heart goes out to Justice more then Anders.

Also I refuse to think Wynne has died yet! That spirit stopped her bad case of the deads! I will never except this logic(not to mention I loved her character! She was always in the party)

[silver-crescent]

Wynne really was a great character. I'd love to see her again in the future.

[Amondra]

silver-crescent wrote...

Wynne really was a great character. I'd love to see her again in the future.

Seriously!  I was so sad about her small cameo in awakening!  I was like "Give me back my healer!"  Then Anders was like "But...I am your healer..."
Me "Do you have wise old adivce?  Can you comfort me?"
Anders "Umm well no...the comfort thing however..."
Me "Not the same!"

I also think she could set Anders and Justice on a better path, I mean that faith spirit had to have done a quick uber merge to stop Wynne from dying is my guess.

Also just thought of something cheesy!

Anders "Even the greatest scholar doesn't know where I end and he starts."

Hawke "Well he jsut doesn't know where.  But there is an end and a start.  We will find it."

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Amondra wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Wynne really was a great character. I'd love to see her again in the future.

Seriously!  I was so sad about her small cameo in awakening!  I was like "Give me back my healer!"  Then Anders was like "But...I am your healer..."
Me "Do you have wise old adivce?  Can you comfort me?"
Anders "Umm well no...the comfort thing however..."
Me "Not the same!"

I also think she could set Anders and Justice on a better path, I mean that faith spirit had to have done a quick uber merge to stop Wynne from dying is my guess.

Also just thought of something cheesy!

Anders "Even the greatest scholar doesn't know where I end and he starts."

Hawke "Well he jsut doesn't know where.  But there is an end and a start.  We will find it."

Wynne was OK, but I'll take Anders any day.
(Unless I can take Zev, too. That's always good for a laugh!)

Awww~!
I always loved that moment in the game after Dissent, where Hawke is speaking to Anders and (s)he can potentially tell him something along the lines of, "Mages are dangerous, so maybe you should strive to prove the Templars wrong about us by controlling yourself and Justice."
Except it was sweeter and more eloquent.

[Dunizel]

Finally catched up with the thread, I come with new art
  
by silarcta

[shiba5]

thebrute7 wrote...

This conversation is making me sad. Anders dying breaks my heart. *runs away to go write Hawke/Anders romance*

Last night it was Twilight, and this is what I woke up to.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Dunizel wrote...

Finally catched up with the thread, I come with new art
  
by silarcta

When does the main quest start?
Good question.

I don't think there WAS one! I mean, the only purpose the qunari had was to make Hawke champion of Kirkwall!
And what was that for? Does anybody know what purpose that served to the plot aside from the final outcome which - by the way - still ends in war?

There's a chance Anders would have blown up the Chantry anyway! (Even without meeting Hawke)

Just what purpose did we serve to the (lack of) plot?

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

shiba5 wrote...

thebrute7 wrote...

This conversation is making me sad. Anders dying breaks my heart. *runs away to go write Hawke/Anders romance*

Last night it was Twilight, and this is what I woke up to.

...at least it's a little better...?

[shiba5]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

thebrute7 wrote...

This conversation is making me sad. Anders dying breaks my heart. *runs away to go write Hawke/Anders romance*

Last night it was Twilight, and this is what I woke up to.

...at least it's a little better...?

This is true.

[phantomdragoness]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Yeah I pointed out earlier that I thought with the ending of the game friendship wise(more with romancing) Anders and Justice calm down a bit, mostly Justice.  That is Anders needs to truly try to deal with his anger and not cover it up under a rug or Hawke, then the Justice we know and love would come back, he might be jadded but still better then nothing.  I really want to believe there is still a shred of Justice left of the spirit, and thats why he comes out when Anders looses it( as Anders feels helpless? because I think that is what he used to feel around tempalr's)  So Justice comes out trying to protect Anders.  In a sense they are destroying one another while trying to help each other....goodness they are a more tragic romance then Hawk/Anders....

Also...I wanted Justice to like Hawke...I wanted Justice/Anders sexy time >_>

Virtues and Sins are technically decided by us, right? Especially Justice (which is the virtue closest to being a sin...)

If Justice is calm, and Anders learns to handle his own sense of justice... maybe we can get them back to a somewhat calmer, reasonable, non-Chantry-exploding state! (Please?)
(Then again, Justice was never great at reasoning...)

I miss the banter between the two.  
Such as: "Apathy is a weakness. <_<"
"So is death! I'm just saying! :D"

Hawke, Anders and Justice/Vengeance make a very interesting love-triangle. I remember during The Last Straw, and Hawke just got this *not impressed* look on her face and she goes:

"Did that spirit put you up to this?" She sounded like she was an angry housewife accusing him of cheating or something. XD

Hawke: Anders... I'm not sure I like all these things I'm hearing about you and this spirit! Remember, nothing is more important than our love! NOTHING. (And don't you dare forget it!!)
Justice: Anders, end this facade now! She is a distraction! I am so much better than she is!!! I can give you more than she can!!! 
Anders: ...Maker, I need a drink! <_<

Spiritual threesome in the Fade? Yes please. 

I will never look at the banter the same again!!  Well like the qoute driving my fanfic(which is in my sig) mortals draw line what we see as what.  Justice is a big one, for all we know and Anders knows, Justice might still think he is Justice because he IS.  Who are we to say when a spirit becomes another? Justice is a gray, and he is an absolute in a world of change, put into a world that is absolute but the things in it are always changing, and so are their views.  That alone has to be maddening to him.  He is Justice absolute he is the idea, before twisted by a mortal thought.  

They did mention that Justice merging with Anders was intimate, maybe he is actually a little jealous of loosing Anders to something he knows he can't compete with.  Also if Justice is new to feeling Rage and Desire at their finest, that also might make him hard to deal with.  He was only getting hints of Kristoff's feelings.  But Anders is alive and those feelings are real and up front.  It could be over whelming him.

Then there is Wynne....where is she to sort this boy out...or maybe Flemeth?

Virtues and their opposite vices are so alike and so easily twisted. Psychology doesn't like us. 
I see no difference between Justice and Vengeance, personally.
A death is a death, regardless of cause. Nothing changes that.

I think in an earlier post yesterday, I mentioned that the physical world and the fade and pretty much opposites, which must be confusing for spirits and demons. (Mortals are confused by the fade, why should spirits be different?)

Wynne wasn't quite the same, I think. Plus, by now I expect she's dead.

Flemeth is tricky. She probably does know a way for him to deal (if the codex is anything to go by, she's in near enough the same situation... sort of.), but she'd need a good reason to help, and what would she want in return...?

I snagged this from my journal on DeviantArt:

Justice - noun: the administering of deserved punishment or reward.

Vengeance
- noun: infliction of injury, harm, humiliation, or the like, on a
person by another who has been harmed by that person; violent revenge.

I
always thought justice and revenge were so close together. After
finally looking up their definitions, I discovered that I was
right...and wrong. Revenge is pregnant with anger, and violence; and
although justice is hardly happy or even good, I think it is the
consideration of other people, while vengeance is of a more selfish
desire.

While the contrasts are clear, they are also a blurred,
overlapping difference. Give over one thing, take the other way, it may
turn into its brother - but then even his blood carries the defect.

[AndreaDraco]

Excuse me if it's already been discussed... has Anders been patched at all in 1.02?

[highcastle]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

Finally catched up with the thread, I come with new art
 
-snip-

by silarcta

When does the main quest start?
Good question.

I don't think there WAS one! I mean, the only purpose the qunari had was to make Hawke champion of Kirkwall!
And what was that for? Does anybody know what purpose that served to the plot aside from the final outcome which - by the way - still ends in war?

There's a chance Anders would have blown up the Chantry anyway! (Even without meeting Hawke)

Just what purpose did we serve to the (lack of) plot?

It's not that there's a lack of a main quest, it's that the main quest is not on the same scale as most RPGs. I'd say it's also the difference between a character-driven story (which is more seen in literature) than a plot-driven story (which is more seen in big budget films). In a character-driven story, events proceed because of the actions of the characters. Plot-driven stories move forward because of outside circumstances. The characters are more like pawns being moved about by the whims of their creators.

DA2's main story is about a guy (or gal) named Hawke who goes rises from rags to riches and then loses it all. It's a typical ascension-sliding-into-descension plot and I think it only surprises people because we don't expect to see it in a game. Other mediums have done it before, though (the film Wall Street comes to mind here). There's a strong emphasis on Hawke's personal life which ties into this game being more focused on one character's growth and evolution than the end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it.

I'd elaborate a bit more, but I need to leave for uni. I'll quickly add that we can't be fully certain of Hawke's purpose in Thedas at large because we don't get to see much of the aftermath, but the game itself could not exist without him. It's about his life, the impact he has on the lives of his friends, the losses he suffers, the decisions he makes in some terrible circumstances, etc. It's a different plot, that doesn't mean there's no plot.

[silver-crescent]

Yeah that's pretty much right.

The story's almost completely character driven, which is definitely a rare thing in games.

[Hellosanta]

highcastle wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

Finally catched up with the thread, I come with new art
 
-snip-

by silarcta

When does the main quest start?
Good question.

I don't think there WAS one! I mean, the only purpose the qunari had was to make Hawke champion of Kirkwall!
And what was that for? Does anybody know what purpose that served to the plot aside from the final outcome which - by the way - still ends in war?

There's a chance Anders would have blown up the Chantry anyway! (Even without meeting Hawke)

Just what purpose did we serve to the (lack of) plot?

It's not that there's a lack of a main quest, it's that the main quest is not on the same scale as most RPGs. I'd say it's also the difference between a character-driven story (which is more seen in literature) than a plot-driven story (which is more seen in big budget films). In a character-driven story, events proceed because of the actions of the characters. Plot-driven stories move forward because of outside circumstances. The characters are more like pawns being moved about by the whims of their creators.

DA2's main story is about a guy (or gal) named Hawke who goes rises from rags to riches and then loses it all. It's a typical ascension-sliding-into-descension plot and I think it only surprises people because we don't expect to see it in a game. Other mediums have done it before, though (the film Wall Street comes to mind here). There's a strong emphasis on Hawke's personal life which ties into this game being more focused on one character's growth and evolution than the end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it.

I'd elaborate a bit more, but I need to leave for uni. I'll quickly add that we can't be fully certain of Hawke's purpose in Thedas at large because we don't get to see much of the aftermath, but the game itself could not exist without him. It's about his life, the impact he has on the lives of his friends, the losses he suffers, the decisions he makes in some terrible circumstances, etc. It's a different plot, that doesn't mean there's no plot.

I second this. We don't know what Hawke's choices, Anders's action, and Qunary invasion will do to the world yet. DA2 doesn't seem to be a stand-alone story, it's just a prologue of one big story.

[phantomdragoness]

Hellosanta wrote...

highcastle wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

Finally catched up with the thread, I come with new art
 
-snip-

by silarcta

When does the main quest start?
Good question.

I don't think there WAS one! I mean, the only purpose the qunari had was to make Hawke champion of Kirkwall!
And what was that for? Does anybody know what purpose that served to the plot aside from the final outcome which - by the way - still ends in war?

There's a chance Anders would have blown up the Chantry anyway! (Even without meeting Hawke)

Just what purpose did we serve to the (lack of) plot?

It's not that there's a lack of a main quest, it's that the main quest is not on the same scale as most RPGs. I'd say it's also the difference between a character-driven story (which is more seen in literature) than a plot-driven story (which is more seen in big budget films). In a character-driven story, events proceed because of the actions of the characters. Plot-driven stories move forward because of outside circumstances. The characters are more like pawns being moved about by the whims of their creators.

DA2's main story is about a guy (or gal) named Hawke who goes rises from rags to riches and then loses it all. It's a typical ascension-sliding-into-descension plot and I think it only surprises people because we don't expect to see it in a game. Other mediums have done it before, though (the film Wall Street comes to mind here). There's a strong emphasis on Hawke's personal life which ties into this game being more focused on one character's growth and evolution than the end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it.

I'd elaborate a bit more, but I need to leave for uni. I'll quickly add that we can't be fully certain of Hawke's purpose in Thedas at large because we don't get to see much of the aftermath, but the game itself could not exist without him. It's about his life, the impact he has on the lives of his friends, the losses he suffers, the decisions he makes in some terrible circumstances, etc. It's a different plot, that doesn't mean there's no plot.

I second this. We don't know what Hawke's choices, Anders's action, and Qunary invasion will do to the world yet. DA2 doesn't seem to be a stand-alone story, it's just a prologue of one big story.

It's like a Greek Tragedy without all the masks and long speeches about loving your own mother.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Hellosanta wrote...

highcastle wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

Finally catched up with the thread, I come with new art
 
-snip-

by silarcta

When does the main quest start?
Good question.

I don't think there WAS one! I mean, the only purpose the qunari had was to make Hawke champion of Kirkwall!
And what was that for? Does anybody know what purpose that served to the plot aside from the final outcome which - by the way - still ends in war?

There's a chance Anders would have blown up the Chantry anyway! (Even without meeting Hawke)

Just what purpose did we serve to the (lack of) plot?

It's not that there's a lack of a main quest, it's that the main quest is not on the same scale as most RPGs. I'd say it's also the difference between a character-driven story (which is more seen in literature) than a plot-driven story (which is more seen in big budget films). In a character-driven story, events proceed because of the actions of the characters. Plot-driven stories move forward because of outside circumstances. The characters are more like pawns being moved about by the whims of their creators.

DA2's main story is about a guy (or gal) named Hawke who goes rises from rags to riches and then loses it all. It's a typical ascension-sliding-into-descension plot and I think it only surprises people because we don't expect to see it in a game. Other mediums have done it before, though (the film Wall Street comes to mind here). There's a strong emphasis on Hawke's personal life which ties into this game being more focused on one character's growth and evolution than the end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it.

I'd elaborate a bit more, but I need to leave for uni. I'll quickly add that we can't be fully certain of Hawke's purpose in Thedas at large because we don't get to see much of the aftermath, but the game itself could not exist without him. It's about his life, the impact he has on the lives of his friends, the losses he suffers, the decisions he makes in some terrible circumstances, etc. It's a different plot, that doesn't mean there's no plot.

I second this. We don't know what Hawke's choices, Anders's action, and Qunary invasion will do to the world yet. DA2 doesn't seem to be a stand-alone story, it's just a prologue of one big story.

I... third this?
I second this second?

Ah, whatever. I agree.

Thing is, I kind of don't want to see Hawke as a protagonist again. Because either: 
A) They'll cut out Anders.
Something awful will happen to him.
or C) He'll get a small, lame cameo that wasn't really worth the effort.

After everything Marian put up with and recently sacrificed just to stay with the jerk, I will not be amused if the above three occur.
And I demand to know what Morrigan gave the Warden! 

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Hmm...

"The only known way to force a demon from its host is to enter the Fade and confront it directly, but this only works when the host has become such willingly."

There should have been more opportunities to go into the Fade and talk to Justice. 
I'm not saying I want to force him away, or get rid of him.
But an opportunity to help them both would have been nice...

Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 13 avril 2011 - 11:36 .

[Persephone]

Question for my fellow Anders Gals:

I really want to finish my Rivalmance with the Siding with the Templars & all that drama ending. (C'mon, there's a KISS!)

So....sooo........

When do I have to use zz_dae_debug?? Right after the Chantry goes boom?

Or do I have to talk to him first, get rejected and then do it?

Please lemme know, this ending has my heart in knots and I WANT it!

[sassperella]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...

highcastle wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

Finally catched up with the thread, I come with new art
 
-snip-

by silarcta

When does the main quest start?
Good question.

I don't think there WAS one! I mean, the only purpose the qunari had was to make Hawke champion of Kirkwall!
And what was that for? Does anybody know what purpose that served to the plot aside from the final outcome which - by the way - still ends in war?

There's a chance Anders would have blown up the Chantry anyway! (Even without meeting Hawke)

Just what purpose did we serve to the (lack of) plot?

It's not that there's a lack of a main quest, it's that the main quest is not on the same scale as most RPGs. I'd say it's also the difference between a character-driven story (which is more seen in literature) than a plot-driven story (which is more seen in big budget films). In a character-driven story, events proceed because of the actions of the characters. Plot-driven stories move forward because of outside circumstances. The characters are more like pawns being moved about by the whims of their creators.

DA2's main story is about a guy (or gal) named Hawke who goes rises from rags to riches and then loses it all. It's a typical ascension-sliding-into-descension plot and I think it only surprises people because we don't expect to see it in a game. Other mediums have done it before, though (the film Wall Street comes to mind here). There's a strong emphasis on Hawke's personal life which ties into this game being more focused on one character's growth and evolution than the end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it.

I'd elaborate a bit more, but I need to leave for uni. I'll quickly add that we can't be fully certain of Hawke's purpose in Thedas at large because we don't get to see much of the aftermath, but the game itself could not exist without him. It's about his life, the impact he has on the lives of his friends, the losses he suffers, the decisions he makes in some terrible circumstances, etc. It's a different plot, that doesn't mean there's no plot.

I second this. We don't know what Hawke's choices, Anders's action, and Qunary invasion will do to the world yet. DA2 doesn't seem to be a stand-alone story, it's just a prologue of one big story.

I... third this?
I second this second?

Ah, whatever. I agree.

Thing is, I kind of don't want to see Hawke as a protagonist again. Because either: 
A) They'll cut out Anders.
Something awful will happen to him.
or C) He'll get a small, lame cameo that wasn't really worth the effort.

After everything Marian put up with and recently sacrificed just to stay with the jerk, I will not be amused if the above three occur.
And I demand to know what Morrigan gave the Warden! 

I agree with this wholeheartedly. So many people killed Anders and The devs canon is pretty much that he died (I know there is no canon but reading between the lines....) that if Hawke returns, even if your character left with Anders they'll do something to him to prevent his return. 
I'd much rather they just gave you a new protagonist with a new interconnected story (as so much seems to be interconnected) and let Hawke be. 

Though with that ending it looks like Hawke and the Warden may be part of something bigger in the future.

[phantomdragoness]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Hmm...

"The only known way to force a demon from its host is to enter the Fade and confront it directly, but this only works when the host has become such willingly."

There should have been more opportunities to go into the Fade and talk to Justice. 
I'm not saying I want to force him away, or get rid of him.
But an opportunity to help them both would have been nice...

I don't want to force Justice away either, because he is a good character with his heart in the right place - he just...he's ruthlessly virtuous. But this is also wearing Anders down. I'm afraid, with any romance path, the posession combined with the Taint will kill him faster. It kinda brings up the point on how a Darkspawn is souless, right? The Archdemon has the soul of an old god, but for it to be destroyed a Grey Warden - who is not souless - must destroy the Archdemon. The two souls cannot coexist, and the Warden - the host - dies. I wonder if having a spirit inside you would be akin to that scenario, if gentler and less...Archdemony.

Is Justice even in the Fade, anymore? No...no, he's not. In Awakening, he is completely and utterly banished from his home and must survive by taking posession of a willing host. That's the issue...how would someone banish a spirit that is literally inside someone? Maybe Fenris could reach in and yank him out. Idk.

I just refuse to believe that there is no way to separate them. I won't believe it until I am given absolute proof on the matter. And I'm sure Hawke would love to have alone time that is actually ALONE TIME. Lol.

[Hellosanta]

sassperella wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...

highcastle wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

Finally catched up with the thread, I come with new art
 
-snip-

by silarcta

When does the main quest start?
Good question.

I don't think there WAS one! I mean, the only purpose the qunari had was to make Hawke champion of Kirkwall!
And what was that for? Does anybody know what purpose that served to the plot aside from the final outcome which - by the way - still ends in war?

There's a chance Anders would have blown up the Chantry anyway! (Even without meeting Hawke)

Just what purpose did we serve to the (lack of) plot?

It's not that there's a lack of a main quest, it's that the main quest is not on the same scale as most RPGs. I'd say it's also the difference between a character-driven story (which is more seen in literature) than a plot-driven story (which is more seen in big budget films). In a character-driven story, events proceed because of the actions of the characters. Plot-driven stories move forward because of outside circumstances. The characters are more like pawns being moved about by the whims of their creators.

DA2's main story is about a guy (or gal) named Hawke who goes rises from rags to riches and then loses it all. It's a typical ascension-sliding-into-descension plot and I think it only surprises people because we don't expect to see it in a game. Other mediums have done it before, though (the film Wall Street comes to mind here). There's a strong emphasis on Hawke's personal life which ties into this game being more focused on one character's growth and evolution than the end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it.

I'd elaborate a bit more, but I need to leave for uni. I'll quickly add that we can't be fully certain of Hawke's purpose in Thedas at large because we don't get to see much of the aftermath, but the game itself could not exist without him. It's about his life, the impact he has on the lives of his friends, the losses he suffers, the decisions he makes in some terrible circumstances, etc. It's a different plot, that doesn't mean there's no plot.

I second this. We don't know what Hawke's choices, Anders's action, and Qunary invasion will do to the world yet. DA2 doesn't seem to be a stand-alone story, it's just a prologue of one big story.

I... third this?
I second this second?

Ah, whatever. I agree.

Thing is, I kind of don't want to see Hawke as a protagonist again. Because either: 
A) They'll cut out Anders.
Something awful will happen to him.
or C) He'll get a small, lame cameo that wasn't really worth the effort.

After everything Marian put up with and recently sacrificed just to stay with the jerk, I will not be amused if the above three occur.
And I demand to know what Morrigan gave the Warden! 

I agree with this wholeheartedly. So many people killed Anders and The devs canon is pretty much that he died (I know there is no canon but reading between the lines....) that if Hawke returns, even if your character left with Anders they'll do something to him to prevent his return. 
I'd much rather they just gave you a new protagonist with a new interconnected story (as so much seems to be interconnected) and let Hawke be. 

Though with that ending it looks like Hawke and the Warden may be part of something bigger in the future.

Let's have the "He" from Sandal's prophecy for DA3's protagonist(single gender for next protagonist? I don't like the sound of it.)  Or a character who will stand against "He".

[Dunizel]

Persephone wrote...

Question for my fellow Anders Gals:

I really want to finish my Rivalmance with the Siding with the Templars & all that drama ending. (C'mon, there's a KISS!)

Since the whole ending dialogues for the rivalmance are bugged...maybe we have a different scene or/and the kiss even siding with the mages?

To be honest siding with the templars will never be my canon nor I would make Anders side with the templars in my main playthrough, but I just would like to see the rivalmance scenes properly...there are some lines that I really want to hear ç_ç

Hellosanta wrote...

Though with that ending it looks like Hawke and the Warden may be part of something bigger in the future.
 Let's have the "He" from Sandal's prophecy for DA3's protagonist(single gender for next protagonist? I don't like the sound of it.)  Or a character who will stand against "He".

Nah, in the next DA we will be the companion of this "he".

(pretty much like in DA2, you just didn't realize it at the start)

I can already imagine it with the story narrated by our PC instead of Varric, just to make it more clear xD

Modifié par Dunizel, 13 avril 2011 - 11:56 .