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[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Hellosanta wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

*sigh* Anders has thuroughly depressed me.

Screw it, I'll just have to write a collection of one-shots detailing the happy times with the Wardens before Anders and Justice got stupid and the Warden-Comander vanished.

We should've had happy romantic scenes of Hawke and Anders which I assume to be happened during time jump after Act II. 

True, but what can I say? I simply love Ferelden and my Wardens far more than Kirkwall and Hawke.

Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 13 avril 2011 - 12:58 .

[DeaHamlet]

Ashwraith wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Also I so wanted this in game damn it all!

-awesomeJusticepicsnip-

ME TOO. GRAAAAAAH.
*flips table*
Ah, well, that's what fandom is there for. Fandom and vivid imaginations!

I totally want sex with Anders in Vengeance mode.  I have a thing for glowly boys!!!!! 

[Hellosanta]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

*sigh* Anders has thuroughly depressed me.

Screw it, I'll just have to write a collection of one-shots detailing the happy times with the Wardens before Anders and Justice got stupid and the Warden-Comander vanished.

We should've had happy romantic scenes of Hawke and Anders which I assume to be happened during time jump after Act II. 

True, but what can I say? I simply love Fereldan and my Wardens far more than Kirkwall and Hawke.

Yep, we need more dog barking and brown in Kirkwall. :happy: Dust and cold, too. 

[Ryzaki]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
True but he killed innocent people and I can't tranquil or imprision him. Death is the only option I have left. I could choose to run away with him but I have no interest in that husk that calls itself Anders. 

So you don't see anything of Anders left in the end?

I feel like I am missing something when people say this. He's absolutely not empty in the friendmance ending.He's grateful that you spare him, excited that he gets to help defend the mages. He has conversations with the other companions that sound pretty much the same as conversations he has throughout the game. When you talk to him in the Gallows he obviously has dreams, a purpose, and it's the one that Anders has wanted from the moment you meet him in Awakening.

It's also clear that he still cares for Hawke, whether he's romanced or not, and he's genuinely happy when Hawke says that s/he'll stay beside him. This is also very much Anders, because Justice would not give a good goddamn whether Hawke lives, dies or runs away to Antiva with Zevran and Isabela.

I just don't see how anyone could say that a person who hopes and loves in an empty husk.

Because he is a husk to me. He's has nothing left in him but his cause. That's the only thing I saw. Oh he's just as happy if you join him than if you tell him he's on his own beause his plans have come to fruition. He doesn't seem to care less about Hawke leaving at this point. He'd gladly stab Hawke if he thought it would get his cause even a sidge about futher. His hopes and loves are connected to some vauge ideal. Freedom. That's why he's excited and happy. He can fight for his cause. If Hawke tries to stop him from doing this he only leaves if Hawke says he'd hurt his cause (make the mages agitated and probably call discontent among them). Everything with him is about that cause. That's as bad to me as him being obsessed with Hawke. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 avril 2011 - 12:59 .

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Ryzaki wrote...

Templar tortured some dalish boy?

When is this?

I don't remember exactly...

The Templars were hunting a mage in the area or something, and captured, tortured and (I think) murdered a young Dalish hunter.

You can either leave them sort it out themselves, or side with one of them.
The Dalish will thank you.
No idea what happens with the templars.

[YamiSnuffles]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
True but he killed innocent people and I can't tranquil or imprision him. Death is the only option I have left. I could choose to run away with him but I have no interest in that husk that calls itself Anders. 

So you don't see anything of Anders left in the end?

I feel like I am missing something when people say this. He's absolutely not empty in the friendmance ending.He's grateful that you spare him, excited that he gets to help defend the mages. He has conversations with the other companions that sound pretty much the same as conversations he has throughout the game. When you talk to him in the Gallows he obviously has dreams, a purpose, and it's the one that Anders has wanted from the moment you meet him in Awakening.

It's also clear that he still cares for Hawke, whether he's romanced or not, and he's genuinely happy when Hawke says that s/he'll stay beside him. This is also very much Anders, because Justice would not give a good goddamn whether Hawke lives, dies or runs away to Antiva with Zevran and Isabela.

I just don't see how anyone could say that a person who hopes and loves in an empty husk.

I'm with you on this entirely. Sure maybe his cause is a bit on the forefront of his brain but that made perfect sense to me if you're right about to go fight Templars. Even so, he's also dreaming about a future with Hawke and a future filled with love for generations of mages to come. I don't think Justice cares about love and he certainly wouldn't be professing his desire to stay with Hawke to the end of days.

But, as I've said before, I'm going to try to stay out of this. It gets me way to worked up to talk about it in a reasonable manner.

[Hellosanta]

DeaHamlet wrote...

Ashwraith wrote...

Amondra wrote...

Also I so wanted this in game damn it all!

-awesomeJusticepicsnip-

ME TOO. GRAAAAAAH.
*flips table*
Ah, well, that's what fandom is there for. Fandom and vivid imaginations!

I totally want sex with Anders in Vengeance mode.  I have a thing for glowly boys!!!!! 

Anders already has glowly/sparkling hands for you though  "The electric thing" 

[sassperella]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
True but he killed innocent people and I can't tranquil or imprision him. Death is the only option I have left. I could choose to run away with him but I have no interest in that husk that calls itself Anders. 

So you don't see anything of Anders left in the end?

I feel like I am missing something when people say this. He's absolutely not empty in the friendmance ending.He's grateful that you spare him, excited that he gets to help defend the mages. He has conversations with the other companions that sound pretty much the same as conversations he has throughout the game. When you talk to him in the Gallows he obviously has dreams, a purpose, and it's the one that Anders has wanted from the moment you meet him in Awakening.

It's also clear that he still cares for Hawke, whether he's romanced or not, and he's genuinely happy when Hawke says that s/he'll stay beside him. This is also very much Anders, because Justice would not give a good goddamn whether Hawke lives, dies or runs away to Antiva with Zevran and Isabela.

I just don't see how anyone could say that a person who hopes and loves in an empty husk.

I agree totally. In the friendship path he still seems to retain a lot of Anders, not sure about rivalry as I've never got the rivalry ending due to the bug. Not that I'd side with the templars but I assume there would be a rivalry dialog on the mages side too.  But I really don't see how he can be seen as an empty husk. It certainly doesn't sound like Justice or Vengeance talking in the gallows if you side with the mages.

Modifié par sassperella, 13 avril 2011 - 01:01 .

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Hellosanta wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

*sigh* Anders has thuroughly depressed me.

Screw it, I'll just have to write a collection of one-shots detailing the happy times with the Wardens before Anders and Justice got stupid and the Warden-Comander vanished.

We should've had happy romantic scenes of Hawke and Anders which I assume to be happened during time jump after Act II. 

True, but what can I say? I simply love Fereldan and my Wardens far more than Kirkwall and Hawke.

Yep, we need more dog barking and brown in Kirkwall. :happy: Dust and cold, too. 

Yep, and don't forget the ugly clunky leather boots (guaranteed to offend Orlesians!) and leather armour!
Honestly, what is with all this fabric nonesense?
Gotta love being a dog-lord! 

[shiba5]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

or C) He'll get a small, lame cameo that wasn't really worth the effort.

I'd almost be ok with this if it was something sickeningly cute like him sitting in a cottage playing with kittens.

[Ryzaki]

My first view of the friendship ending was on the rivalry path. And Anders looks like he got completely hijacked by Justice in the epilogue dialogue.

It creeped me out completely.

[sassperella]

Ryzaki wrote...

My first view of the friendship ending was on the rivalry path. And Anders looks like he got completely hijacked by Justice in the epilogue dialogue.

It creeped me out completely.

yeah but that's a bug. It doesn't come across that way if you play the whole friendship path.

[Ryzaki]

sassperella wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

My first view of the friendship ending was on the rivalry path. And Anders looks like he got completely hijacked by Justice in the epilogue dialogue.

It creeped me out completely.

yeah but that's a bug. It doesn't come across that way if you play the whole friendship path.

But if you don't he comes off looking like a husk. 

I woudn't care so much if I wasn't getting the "oh I hope it stays bugged!" attitude in this thead. 

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

shiba5 wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

or C) He'll get a small, lame cameo that wasn't really worth the effort.

I'd almost be ok with this if it was something sickeningly cute like him sitting in a cottage playing with kittens.

Or if we see him with Hawke, and they both look somewhat more stable and happy... as much as fugitives can, anyhow.

So long as I know DA2 wasn't a wasted effort. 

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

There certainly seems to be something left of Anders from what I've seen.
Especially when it comes to the mentions of Nate. Now that was the old Anders we all know and love. <3

Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 13 avril 2011 - 01:06 .

[sassperella]

Ryzaki wrote...

sassperella wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

My first view of the friendship ending was on the rivalry path. And Anders looks like he got completely hijacked by Justice in the epilogue dialogue.

It creeped me out completely.

yeah but that's a bug. It doesn't come across that way if you play the whole friendship path.

But if you don't he comes off looking like a husk. 

I woudn't care so much if I wasn't getting the "oh I hope it stays bugged!" attitude in this thead. 

Well whether you like the templar ending for him or not, the whole chantry dialog is broken and probably the mage supporting dialog at the gallows too, so yeah it's definitely a bit odd if you play the rivalry path. So I can kinda see that viewpoint if you go rivalry, but it fits with the friendship path and doesn't feel like he's lost so much of himself.

[YamiSnuffles]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

or C) He'll get a small, lame cameo that wasn't really worth the effort.

I'd almost be ok with this if it was something sickeningly cute like him sitting in a cottage playing with kittens.

Or if we see him with Hawke, and they both look somewhat more stable and happy... as much as fugitives can, anyhow.

So long as I know DA2 wasn't a wasted effort. 

I wouldn't mind there just being a small cameo, honestly. I loved Alistair, but I was okay when he just showed up for a little bit in Awakening. The bit that was there was perfect and it felt like a reason for my Warden to be fighting. She wanted to fix things so she could get back to him (and, you know, for boring, noble, saving the world reasons).

So something small like that with Anders would content me, honestly. Certainly better than always having him dead, no matter what.

[Dasha Dreyson]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

or C) He'll get a small, lame cameo that wasn't really worth the effort.

I'd almost be ok with this if it was something sickeningly cute like him sitting in a cottage playing with kittens.

Or if we see him with Hawke, and they both look somewhat more stable and happy... as much as fugitives can, anyhow.

So long as I know DA2 wasn't a wasted effort. 

New Hero: What's with all the kitten?
Hawke: It's the only way I can keep him from blowing random **** up.

[Dunizel]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

There certainly seems to be something left of Anders from what I've seen.
Especially when it comes to the mentions of Nate. Now that was the old Anders we all know and love.

Yeah he is really sweet whan he talk to Delilah about Nate. Not to mention his snarky attitude later with Nate. 

But after he blows the Chantry he is of course shaken. I wouldn't say a broken husk, because he still feels pain and in my opinion that is completely Anders' soul that is suffering, not Vengeance. I don't know if any amount of time and affection could "heal" him, who knows...

Still, we are not even talking about the "siding with the templars bug", even though having it doesn't hurt anyone, you are not forced to play it.
What I believe we all agree to have is the "right dialogues and ending for the rivalmance", even siding with the mages.

[Ryzaki]

sassperella wrote...
Well whether you like the templar ending for him or not, the whole chantry dialog is broken and probably the mage supporting dialog at the gallows too, so yeah it's definitely a bit odd if you play the rivalry path. So I can kinda see that viewpoint if you go rivalry, but it fits with the friendship path and doesn't feel like he's lost so much of himself.

Indeed. I do want the ending because frankly mine makes no sense at the current moment. And he does look like a he's been hijacked by Vengeance. He's all of a sudden all "Justice and I are one!" after having a breakdown about how and Justice weren't one. Says he blew up the Chantry when he was previously bemoaning the fact that Justice wouldn't let him stop it. It looks like he's completely lost his mind and Vengeance is all that's left. The blackouts, the inabiliy to stop the bomb (yet claiming he planned it all along) and it's extremely jarring. 

Which is why I get so pissed off at that "i hope it stays bugged" pettiness in this thread the friendship ending isn't FUBAR'd so why should mine be? Whether you like it or not. Everytime I hear that I want to rant. Endings are optional. If you can't deal with something optional well screw you. I shouldn't be penalized because you can choose to skip something if you don't like it while my ending ends up making no sense unless I replay the game completely. Screw that noise. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 avril 2011 - 01:13 .

[Threeparts]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
True but he killed innocent people and I can't tranquil or imprision him. Death is the only option I have left. I could choose to run away with him but I have no interest in that husk that calls itself Anders. 

So you don't see anything of Anders left in the end?

I feel like I am missing something when people say this. He's absolutely not empty in the friendmance ending.He's grateful that you spare him, excited that he gets to help defend the mages. He has conversations with the other companions that sound pretty much the same as conversations he has throughout the game. When you talk to him in the Gallows he obviously has dreams, a purpose, and it's the one that Anders has wanted from the moment you meet him in Awakening.

It's also clear that he still cares for Hawke, whether he's romanced or not, and he's genuinely happy when Hawke says that s/he'll stay beside him. This is also very much Anders, because Justice would not give a good goddamn whether Hawke lives, dies or runs away to Antiva with Zevran and Isabela.

I just don't see how anyone could say that a person who hopes and loves in an empty husk.

I'm with you on this entirely. Sure maybe his cause is a bit on the forefront of his brain but that made perfect sense to me if you're right about to go fight Templars. Even so, he's also dreaming about a future with Hawke and a future filled with love for generations of mages to come. I don't think Justice cares about love and he certainly wouldn't be professing his desire to stay with Hawke to the end of days.

But, as I've said before, I'm going to try to stay out of this. It gets me way to worked up to talk about it in a reasonable manner.

Nth-ing this. He's focused, yes, and ready to fight, but, well, they're inside the Gallows while it's under seige by the templars. I'd find it much stranger if he weren't focused on the fact that the mages they're trying to protect are still under threat. Despite that, he's still willing to express affection for Hawke and ask if they could stay together once it's all over.
I believe at this point he's as much Vengeance as he is Anders, as if the Chantry was the tipping point on the friendship path that pushed them into merging fully. He never goes into his Vengeance mode after that point - not if you kill him, not when confronting Orsino or Meredith, not when the entire group looks like they'll be slaughtered by templars next to Meredith's 'corpse'.
If they are fully merged, than that focused but fond Anders we see in the Gallows is who our Hawkes must deal with from that point on. My Hawke is okay with that, but I can see it being difficult for others to accept.


Also, from 30 or so pages back:

RinjiRenee wrote...
Anderstians! I need your assistance!
I remember some time ago someone posting screenshots from inside the Gallows where you could clearly see prison doors and what not. Does anyone have those?!

I posted some, you can find them here.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

or C) He'll get a small, lame cameo that wasn't really worth the effort.

I'd almost be ok with this if it was something sickeningly cute like him sitting in a cottage playing with kittens.

Or if we see him with Hawke, and they both look somewhat more stable and happy... as much as fugitives can, anyhow.

So long as I know DA2 wasn't a wasted effort. 

New Hero: What's with all the kitten?
Hawke: It's the only way I can keep him from blowing random **** up.

lol
That'd be great! XD
"Ladies and Gentlemen, may I introduce you to Ser-Pounce-a-lot II."

(If DA3 ran on the same engine, and the Hawke imported retained their appearance and chosen personality, that might actually be an option.)

[sassperella]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

or C) He'll get a small, lame cameo that wasn't really worth the effort.

I'd almost be ok with this if it was something sickeningly cute like him sitting in a cottage playing with kittens.

Or if we see him with Hawke, and they both look somewhat more stable and happy... as much as fugitives can, anyhow.

So long as I know DA2 wasn't a wasted effort. 

I wouldn't mind there just being a small cameo, honestly. I loved Alistair, but I was okay when he just showed up for a little bit in Awakening. The bit that was there was perfect and it felt like a reason for my Warden to be fighting. She wanted to fix things so she could get back to him (and, you know, for boring, noble, saving the world reasons).

So something small like that with Anders would content me, honestly. Certainly better than always having him dead, no matter what.

True. A lot depends on the story in future games and what has happened to Hawke and the Warden. I hope they don't just decide to kill him off because it's easier though. My Hawke would stay with him no matter what and giving you the choice to keep him alive at the end of DA2 would lose any meaning if they decided to kill him off just to keep with their perceived canon. But I could live with a cameo if it was a good one

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ryzaki wrote...

My first view of the friendship ending was on the rivalry path. And Anders looks like he got completely hijacked by Justice in the epilogue dialogue.

It creeped me out completely.

He's not so much a husk as he is perfectly in sync with Justice, something like "Janders" if you will.  He has not let Justice take over his body completely, but his soul is working in harmony with Justice rather than trying to fight it.    He's not defeated, he's merely in agreement with Justice.  "I took a spirit into my soul in order to achieve this."

My Hawke was a little sad about it, but it was not like he was ever going to have a normal life with the guy anyway.  They can fight for the cause together, which IS ultimately more important (to them).

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 13 avril 2011 - 01:15 .

[DeaHamlet]

Ryzaki wrote...

Templar tortured some dalish boy?

When is this?

You have to tell Feynriel to go to the dalish in act 1.  In act 2, go to Sundermount before doing Night Terrors.
Templars and Dalish are having words because the templars captured a dalish boy and tortured him for information on where Feynriel is.
I felt honor-bound to help the dalish (I mean I got them in that mess to begin with), but also that templars was particularly ruthless and ... I think she was Meredith's clone or something.  She REALLY pissed me off and she REALLY was being a complete ****.