57020 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

It did seem like Hawke was sitting on his ass.

He didn't try to expose templar abuses or do anything other than pleasing some no name nobles and appparently go to parties.

That bugs me so much about the timeskips. It's like Hawke does one or two things before doing absolutely nothing.

[YamiSnuffles]

fjgkfjhsdjfhjslkfhjklfslkfjkls

This is why I hate it when friend vs. rivalry comes up. It turns ridiculous and I want to start knocking skulls together. So instead... kitten Anders!



by aihito.deviantart.com/

That's right. That's how I solve everything. <_<

[Threeparts]

purplecookie wrote...

This. The last bit of dialogue with Anders if you friendshipromanced him is extremely telling (for me, anyway) that while he does say he'd rather be on the run with Hawke and that they'll be fighting for a better world etc, the very last thing he says is (and I can't remember the exact line) "May the Maker bring us victory, or all else is meaningless". That last line just seemed to me that Hawke really doesn't matter all that much in comparison to his cause (no real surprise there I suppose) - great if he/she wants to come along for the ride, but make no mistake that they're not a priority.

I believe that last line is talking about the battle they are about to fight, and I think he's got a point.

If they lose this first battle, the battle that all others that come later will hinge on, then they will have failed and everything that he and the underground and a supportive Hawke have worked for the last few years will be meaningless. If they fail there in the Gallows, the Chantry will come down even harder on mages, and mages will see how easily they are broken, making it harder to inspire them to fight. If they die there, the revolution dies with them.

He and Hawke are facing death. Anders is acknowledging it and steeling himself for a decisive victory or failure. I think that's far more admirable than trying to pretend that it's all going to be fine and that he and Hawke are going to live long and happy lives once this little matter is out of the way.

Modifié par Threeparts, 13 avril 2011 - 02:00 .

[DeaHamlet]

Does anyone know... I think in act 2 Anders says something about not revealing much about the mage underground to Hawke (to protect her?! I can't remember), but does anyone know if Anders allows Hawke to get involved in the mage underground at all, ever?!
It kind of sounded to me like whatever you do, Hawke doesn't get to be involved much in the mage underground other than helping Anders once or twice, rescuing some mage in the Wounded Coast and framing the templar Connor. Am I wrong?

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ryzaki wrote...

It did seem like Hawke was sitting on his ass.

He didn't try to expose templar abuses or do anything other than pleasing some no name nobles and appparently go to parties.

That bugs me so much about the timeskips. It's like Hawke does one or two things before doing absolutely nothing.

Yeah, Anders' Act III codex made it seem like Hawke was more or less living the life of a noble (for good and for ill) and Anders was extremely nervous living alongside Hawke's spotlight.  Meanwhile, the situation with the mages got worse.  It seems to me, at least, that Hawke's position of power drove Anders even further into his craziness.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 13 avril 2011 - 01:51 .

[Dunizel]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

fjgkfjhsdjfhjslkfhjklfslkfjkls

This is why I hate it when friend vs. rivalry comes up. It turns ridiculous and I want to start knocking skulls together. So instead... kitten Anders!

http://fc00.devianta...ito-d3dtxtl.png

by aihito.deviantart.com/

That's right. That's how I solve everything. <_<

Here I'll follow you in this epic attempt with moar kittens. Because I think no one noticed it in the discussion


by Xeora

Speaking of Hawke, even if Anders wanted to protect him/her not revealing anything of his underground organization, I still think it is highly unrealistic that for three years they didn't address the matter in any way, as if Hawke is simply ignoring the fact and going on with his noble life, while Anders suffers and tries to save mages. It would take a really insensible Hawke...

Modifié par Dunizel, 13 avril 2011 - 02:03 .

[Hellosanta]

DeaHamlet wrote...

Does anyone know... I think in act 2 Anders says something about not revealing much about the mage underground to Hawke (to protect her?! I can't remember), but does anyone know if Anders allows Hawke to get involved in the mage underground at all, ever?!
It kind of sounded to me like whatever you do, Hawke doesn't get to be involved much in the mage underground other than helping Anders once or twice, rescuing some mage in the Wounded Coast and framing the templar Connor. Am I wrong?

You are right. Anders keeps Hawke away from getting involved with mage underground to protect Hawke from templar. 

[sassperella]

Hellosanta wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Does anyone know... I think in act 2 Anders says something about not revealing much about the mage underground to Hawke (to protect her?! I can't remember), but does anyone know if Anders allows Hawke to get involved in the mage underground at all, ever?!
It kind of sounded to me like whatever you do, Hawke doesn't get to be involved much in the mage underground other than helping Anders once or twice, rescuing some mage in the Wounded Coast and framing the templar Connor. Am I wrong?

You are right. Anders keeps Hawke away from getting involved with mage underground to protect Hawke from templar. 

My Hawke wanted to get involved in the mage underground but Anders wouldn't let her 

[YamiSnuffles]

Threeparts wrote...

purplecookie wrote...

This. The last bit of dialogue with Anders if you friendshipromanced him is extremely telling (for me, anyway) that while he does say he'd rather be on the run with Hawke and that they'll be fighting for a better world etc, the very last thing he says is (and I can't remember the exact line) "May the Maker bring us victory, or all else is meaningless". That last line just seemed to me that Hawke really doesn't matter all that much in comparison to his cause (no real surprise there I suppose) - great if he/she wants to come along for the ride, but make no mistake that they're not a priority.

I believe that last line is talking about the battle they are about to fight, and I think he's got a point.

If they lose this first battle, the battle that all others that come later will hinge on, then they will have failed and everything that he and the underground and a supportive Hawke have worked for the last few years will be meaningless. If they fail there in the Gallows, the Chantry will come down even harder on mages, and mages will see how easily they are broken, making it harder to inspire them to fight. If they die there, the revolution dies with them.

He and Hawke are facing death. Anders is acknowleging it and steeling himself for a decisive victory or failure. I think that's far more admirable than trying to pretend that it's all going to be fine and that he and Hawke are going to live long and happy lives once this little matter is out of the way.

That's what I took it as. A lot of your companions mention their fear that they may die in the coming battle. Since this is Anders' fight more than it is for most of your companions, it gets a bit of a different flavor.

[Ryzaki]

RinjiRenee wrote...
Yeah, Anders' Act III codex made it seem like Hawke was more or less living the life of a noble (for good and for ill) and Anders was extremely nervous living alongside Hawke's spotlight.  Meanwhile, the situation with the mages got worse.  It seems to me, at least, that Hawke's position of power drove Anders even further into his craziness.

It probably did. He probably kept comparing his life to that of other mages and saw how unjust it was. (sorry couldn't resist). And Justice and he probably got more and more infuritated. 

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

...suddenly, I'm kinda missing the metal scarring of the Sparklepire pictures.

[YamiSnuffles]

Dunizel wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

fjgkfjhsdjfhjslkfhjklfslkfjkls

This is why I hate it when friend vs. rivalry comes up. It turns ridiculous and I want to start knocking skulls together. So instead... kitten Anders!
*snip*

by aihito.deviantart.com/

That's right. That's how I solve everything. <_<

Here I'll follow you in this epic attempt with moar kittens. Because I think no one noticed it in the discussion
*snip adorableness*
by Xeora

I've seen that picture before (I think I posted an unfinished version a little bit ago). It's so cute! I swear, I just want to launch a storm of kittens on Anders. He can't bomb anything if he's buried in kittens!

[SurelyForth]

Ryzaki wrote...

I never understood getting irritated about how or why someone else enjoyed something. If you think it's OOC or whatever just ignore the option. I'm just a little bit tired of the "i'm glad it's bugged" attitude when it doesn't have to effect someone else's game. Just ignore it. If the mere presence of it bothers someone so much that they  can't bare someone else doing that ending. Well I'm sorry but screw em. There's the option to ignore it. Crying about that is on the same level as crying about a bisexual romance to me. It's optional. You don't like it? Ignore it.  You feel it ruins the character? Ignore it. You think it's massively OOC? Ignore it. 

If you can't ignore it when it's not forced on you well cry me a river. 

But don't try to tell people that they shouldn't have an ending that the developers put in the game just because you don't like it and expect me to take you seriously. If you can't enjoy the story without stomping on others toys too bad. 

Ignoring an ending is childish and one of my issues is that I CANNOT ignore them. Everything a character can be matters to me, even if I hate it, and I would honestly prefer for there to be an artistic reason rather than a game mechanics reason for things happening the way they do. Especially when it comes to a character like Anders.

Like I said before, I actually think the parallels with Ketojan are remarkable and, if that's how it's intended, then I give Hepler kudos for making it that dark. However, when people bring up "squee, kiss!" I go back to thinking that it isn't supposed to be anything more than "here's your happy rivalmance ending because it has to have one" and that takes some of the power away, in my opinion, because then it's not organic to the character. 

When I initially brought it up yesterday, in regards to it being patched in, I wasn't attacking it or ANYTHING. I was saying that there might be an issue with it beyond it not triggering, like the standardized LI epilogues for a templar/Viscount ending not making sense with Anders. That's it.

And, seriously, I don't want to take anyone's toys away from them, I just want them to be high quality and lovingly crafted, even if I never touch them, because I'm definitely going to look at them and think about them. And it's not like I'm DOING anything besides venting fangirly frustration on a forum. There are no petitions to keep it cut being passed around, nor am I PMing Gaider and Hepler and telling them what they should do.

[purplecookie]

Threeparts wrote...

purplecookie wrote...

This. The last bit of dialogue with Anders if you friendshipromanced him is extremely telling (for me, anyway) that while he does say he'd rather be on the run with Hawke and that they'll be fighting for a better world etc, the very last thing he says is (and I can't remember the exact line) "May the Maker bring us victory, or all else is meaningless". That last line just seemed to me that Hawke really doesn't matter all that much in comparison to his cause (no real surprise there I suppose) - great if he/she wants to come along for the ride, but make no mistake that they're not a priority.

I believe that last line is talking about the battle they are about to fight, and I think he's got a point.

If they lose this first battle, the battle that all others that come later will hinge on, then they will have failed and everything that he and the underground and a supportive Hawke have worked for the last few years will be meaningless. If they fail there in the Gallows, the Chantry will come down even harder on mages, and mages will see how easily they are broken, making it harder to inspire them to fight. If they die there, the revolution dies with them.

He and Hawke are facing death. Anders is acknowleging it and steeling himself for a decisive victory or failure. I think that's far more admirable than trying to pretend that it's all going to be fine and that he and Hawke are going to live long and happy lives once this little matter is out of the way.

AHH ok, that didn't occur to me at all! I always interpreted that as him referring to his long-term goal rather than the immediate battle. That... actually makes me really like that interaction a lot more, thank you!

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ryzaki wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...
Yeah, Anders' Act III codex made it seem like Hawke was more or less living the life of a noble (for good and for ill) and Anders was extremely nervous living alongside Hawke's spotlight.  Meanwhile, the situation with the mages got worse.  It seems to me, at least, that Hawke's position of power drove Anders even further into his craziness.

It probably did. He probably kept comparing his life to that of other mages and saw how unjust it was. (sorry couldn't resist). And Justice and he probably got more and more infuritated. 

By the end of the game, my Mage Hawke would have forehead slapped about having a position of nobility anyway.  It only ever worked because Meredith was willing to overlook Hawke for the time being, because he was the Champion and dragging his ass to the Circle would have pissed people off.  It was something that was graced upon him, rather than truly earned.

This song really comes to mind when I'm typing this.

[Ryzaki]

SurelyForth wrote...

Ignoring an ending is childish and one of my issues is that I CANNOT ignore them. Everything a character can be matters to me, even if I hate it, and I would honestly prefer for there to be an artistic reason rather than a game mechanics reason for things happening the way they do. Especially when it comes to a character like Anders.

Like I said before, I actually think the parallels with Ketojan are remarkable and, if that's how it's intended, then I give Hepler kudos for making it that dark. However, when people bring up "squee, kiss!" I go back to thinking that it isn't supposed to be anything more than "here's your happy rivalmance ending because it has to have one" and that takes some of the power away, in my opinion, because then it's not organic to the character. 

When I initially brought it up yesterday, in regards to it being patched in, I wasn't attacking it or ANYTHING. I was saying that there might be an issue with it beyond it not triggering, like the standardized LI epilogues for a templar/Viscount ending not making sense with Anders. That's it.

And, seriously, I don't want to take anyone's toys away from them, I just want them to be high quality and lovingly crafted, even if I never touch them, because I'm definitely going to look at them and think about them. And it's not like I'm DOING anything besides venting fangirly frustration on a forum. There are no petitions to keep it cut being passed around, nor am I PMing Gaider and Hepler and telling them what they should do.

Ignoring an optional ending is childish? What kind of logic is that? If you can't ignore something optional that's an issue you have. That doesn't make it mature. Just something you can't do. 

Ignoring an ending or something that you don't prefer because some one else might prefer it is mature. Not telling other people that their ending shouldn't exist. That's childish. 

Debating said merits of that ending is mature. Debating circumstances which you think that ending is plausible is mature. 

Saying it shouldn't exist ever because you don't like it is chidlish. 

And if that's the only thing you were saying. (I.E. I don't think it makes sense) I don't mind. That's perfectly valid. People have their own opinions. It's the "I hope it stays bugged." that irritates me. That's childish and immature and petty. 

And people have different preferences in their toys. So while you may think it's high quaity and lovingly crafted one way. Someone else might feel differently. If you only have to look at it I say the person who actually is playing with it should get priority. You can always look away no matter if you think you can't. 

And of course you're not petitioning. That would be stupid. And PMing Gaider and Hepler about leaving it out would also be stupid. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 avril 2011 - 02:12 .

[DeaHamlet]

Threeparts wrote...

I believe that last line is talking about the battle they are about to fight, and I think he's got a point.

If they lose this first battle, the battle that all others that come later will hinge on, then they will have failed and everything that he and the underground and a supportive Hawke have worked for the last few years will be meaningless. If they fail there in the Gallows, the Chantry will come down even harder on mages, and mages will see how easily they are broken, making it harder to inspire them to fight. If they die there, the revolution dies with them.

He and Hawke are facing death. Anders is acknowleging it and steeling himself for a decisive victory or failure. I think that's far more admirable than trying to pretend that it's all going to be fine and that he and Hawke are going to live long and happy lives once this little matter is out of the way.

Stop making so much awesome sense.   It's pretty much how I saw the ending.

[DeaHamlet]

sassperella wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Does anyone know... I think in act 2 Anders says something about not revealing much about the mage underground to Hawke (to protect her?! I can't remember), but does anyone know if Anders allows Hawke to get involved in the mage underground at all, ever?!
It kind of sounded to me like whatever you do, Hawke doesn't get to be involved much in the mage underground other than helping Anders once or twice, rescuing some mage in the Wounded Coast and framing the templar Connor. Am I wrong?

You are right. Anders keeps Hawke away from getting involved with mage underground to protect Hawke from templar. 

My Hawke wanted to get involved in the mage underground but Anders wouldn't let her 

I guess it's all because Anders sees Hawke as a little girl he needs to protect? 

Anyway, thanx for clarification.  It makes me sad.  Like when that Darktown mage tells Hawke how she enjoys the sweetmeats while the rest starve.  *sad face* The guilt, oh the guilt!

[Rinji the Bearded]

DeaHamlet wrote...

sassperella wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Does anyone know... I think in act 2 Anders says something about not revealing much about the mage underground to Hawke (to protect her?! I can't remember), but does anyone know if Anders allows Hawke to get involved in the mage underground at all, ever?!
It kind of sounded to me like whatever you do, Hawke doesn't get to be involved much in the mage underground other than helping Anders once or twice, rescuing some mage in the Wounded Coast and framing the templar Connor. Am I wrong?

You are right. Anders keeps Hawke away from getting involved with mage underground to protect Hawke from templar. 

My Hawke wanted to get involved in the mage underground but Anders wouldn't let her 

I guess it's all because Anders sees Hawke as a little girl he needs to protect? 

Anyway, thanx for clarification.  It makes me sad.  Like when that Darktown mage tells Hawke how she enjoys the sweetmeats while the rest starve.  *sad face* The guilt, oh the guilt!

Man, that made me feel HORRIBLE, especially playing a Mage Hawke.  She was absolutely correct, too.

[Hellosanta]

DeaHamlet wrote...

sassperella wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Does anyone know... I think in act 2 Anders says something about not revealing much about the mage underground to Hawke (to protect her?! I can't remember), but does anyone know if Anders allows Hawke to get involved in the mage underground at all, ever?!
It kind of sounded to me like whatever you do, Hawke doesn't get to be involved much in the mage underground other than helping Anders once or twice, rescuing some mage in the Wounded Coast and framing the templar Connor. Am I wrong?

You are right. Anders keeps Hawke away from getting involved with mage underground to protect Hawke from templar. 

My Hawke wanted to get involved in the mage underground but Anders wouldn't let her 

I guess it's all because Anders sees Hawke as a little girl he needs to protect? 

Anyway, thanx for clarification.  It makes me sad.  Like when that Darktown mage tells Hawke how she enjoys the sweetmeats while the rest starve.  *sad face* The guilt, oh the guilt!

Oh that one. You actually can give some money to her in Act II in Darktown. I expected her to act differently if I donate a lot, but she still said same thing. So sad. If I were Hawke, I would really did something worthwhile during each time jumps. 

[cleosilver]

sassperella wrote...

If Hawke pursues any romance with Anders, I think he/she has to accept that he's never going to be normal, and his cause will always come first. That's part of the package. If he can't be separated, which he can't, there are only a few possible outcomes - Anders becomes dominant, Justice becomes dominant, they merge, they die. As Anders is the weaker of the two you have to decide as Hawke, if you can live with him as he is - and he's never pretended to be anything else or whether to kill him at the end of the game.
He'll never be awakening Anders again, but then Hawke never knew Awakening Anders so to him/her he's always been as he is.

That's something we need to remember. We may have fond memories of Awakening Anders but all Hawke knows is the version in DA2. He's not the same person. He has aspects of Awakening Anders and aspects of Awakening Justice but it's more complicated than just pointing to each bit and saying "that's Anders" or "that's Justice" since they're not realy separate anymore. Freedom for Mages is as much Anders as Justice, just the Awakening version didn't know what he could actually do about it. None of the changes to Awakening Anders we see in DA2 came out of the blue, the feelings and resentment were there before the merge, he just got the drive to do something about it from Justice.

[DeaHamlet]

RinjiRenee wrote...
Man, that made me feel HORRIBLE, especially playing a Mage Hawke.  She was absolutely correct, too.

I tried to give money but 1 silver at a time? ugh.  And I gave to the lady at the Import store (only let me do it once, boo).  But that was all the game let me do and it made zero difference anyway.

I can't save anyone apparently.  Mage Hawke must feel very frustrated by the end.
Oh, I get Grace away, oh noes she's captured again.
Oh, I give Isabela to the Arishok *meow*, she runs off after 3 days.
Oh, I let Lord Harimann live?!, he still manages to die within 3 years.
Oh, I tell Arishok and Elthina about Petrice, nothing is done... and she messes up everything anyway.
And on and on... and on...  
Blood mage Hawkette was extremely frustrated by the end and wanted to take some heads off.  I think she was the only one who was "thank you Anders, I now get to masacre some idiots. But really, I wanted to kill Elthina, spoilsport." And then the templars join against Meredith and blood mage Hawke was like "OH come on!!!  What is this!  I want to kill some people, damnit!"
LOLz.  Being bad is hilarious at times.

[sassperella]

Hellosanta wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

sassperella wrote...

Hellosanta wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Does anyone know... I think in act 2 Anders says something about not revealing much about the mage underground to Hawke (to protect her?! I can't remember), but does anyone know if Anders allows Hawke to get involved in the mage underground at all, ever?!
It kind of sounded to me like whatever you do, Hawke doesn't get to be involved much in the mage underground other than helping Anders once or twice, rescuing some mage in the Wounded Coast and framing the templar Connor. Am I wrong?

You are right. Anders keeps Hawke away from getting involved with mage underground to protect Hawke from templar. 

My Hawke wanted to get involved in the mage underground but Anders wouldn't let her 

I guess it's all because Anders sees Hawke as a little girl he needs to protect? 

Anyway, thanx for clarification.  It makes me sad.  Like when that Darktown mage tells Hawke how she enjoys the sweetmeats while the rest starve.  *sad face* The guilt, oh the guilt!

Oh that one. You actually can give some money to her in Act II in Darktown. I expected her to act differently if I donate a lot, but she still said same thing. So sad. If I were Hawke, I would really did something worthwhile during each time jumps. 

Think of it as Bioware's guilt;) My Hawke would be in Darktown helping Anders in his clinic and helping everyone she could.

[Dasha Dreyson]

I can ignore optional endings in games. That's why it's a game and not a book or a movie. Anyway YouTube has lots of clips that show the buildup of of rivalmance and how it would have made sense. Was it cut for story reasons? Was it cut for time and budget restraints? I don't know. I do know that according to posts on YouTube some of the dialogue was recorded and some scenes rendered. I also know that Merrill's rivalmance is bugged to hell and back.

It's a fault of mine, but I see the last segment of Varric's story (after the final boss) as being the end plaques we had in DAO. So to me, whatever Varric says is what Varric says, but it's arguing over end plaques. We know how well those worked out.

Edit: not plague; the zombie apocalpyse hasn't happened yet.

Modifié par Dasha Dreyson, 13 avril 2011 - 02:23 .

[Purposeof-Flight]

-opens page happily.....backs out slowly-