Sialater wrote...
Yeah... so let's take lonely, fragile, emotionally unstable children and SEPARATE THEM FROM THEIR FAMILIES. It'll all work out fine. [/sarcasm]
Modifié par Muzzlepuffs, 14 avril 2011 - 04:25 .
purplecookie wrote...
This is my impression also - Anders talks about mages from less well-off* areas being taken away from their families with such families being threatened with imprisonment if they ask about them. No prestige I imagine = no contact.Batteries wrote...
tmp7704 wrote...
Mages can see their families -- Arl Eamon is said to frequently visit his child after she turns out to be a mage, in one of the epilogues. There's also the mage from Witch Hunt whose family maintains contact. Most families simply choose not to because they're scared ****less of the prospect of being accidentally set on fire, or whatever.phantomdragoness wrote...
It's the way they're watched that causes my dislike - and being locked up at a tender age to never see your family again is not the way to go.
Eamon has money and status. I don't know much about Finn since I never played Witch Hunt.
*Edit: I think he described them as "rat-spit villages*
Muzzlepuffs wrote...
Sialater wrote...
Yeah... so let's take lonely, fragile, emotionally unstable children and SEPARATE THEM FROM THEIR FAMILIES. It'll all work out fine. [/sarcasm]
And we'll tell them that the Maker hates them for their curse. Real boost to the self-esteem, that.
Sialater wrote...
signcherie wrote...
Sialater wrote...
Batteries wrote...
tmp7704 wrote...
Mages can see their families -- Arl Eamon is said to frequently visit his child after she turns out to be a mage, in one of the epilogues. There's also the mage from Witch Hunt whose family maintains contact. Most families simply choose not to because they're scared ****less of the prospect of being accidentally set on fire, or whatever.
Eamon has money and status. I don't know much about Finn since I never played Witch Hunt.
Yeah, I got the impression Eamon was an anomaly and Jowan's parents were more the norm.
Bethany says something that makes me think they can't see their families, too. Something like, "If I'd gone to the Circle, you'd be nothing more to me than a note in my file." I had the impression that without a lot of influence, families are off-limits.
Yeah... so let's take lonely, fragile, emotionally unstable children and SEPARATE THEM FROM THEIR FAMILIES. It'll all work out fine. [/sarcasm]
nekhbet wrote...
Muzzlepuffs wrote...
Sialater wrote...
Yeah... so let's take lonely, fragile, emotionally unstable children and SEPARATE THEM FROM THEIR FAMILIES. It'll all work out fine. [/sarcasm]
And we'll tell them that the Maker hates them for their curse. Real boost to the self-esteem, that.
That's one of the most horrible things about the Circles.
Pretty sure it'd all work out better for everyone if the Circles were simple schools that mages need to attend to learn to control their powers and fight against demons tempting them. Ah, if we got to change Thedas at some point...
Huojin wrote...
baww... when does Anders say "I miss my cat"?! I want to trigger that!
I wouldn't have thought mages could see their families at all - most of the characters in the game are constantly complaining about missing their families and such. Eamon probably only got in because of his status, and only bothered because he had a different experience with a mage (saving his son... you know?)
sassperella wrote...
Ninche wrote...
I definitely agree that mages ARE dangerous and should be provided with training and guidance and protection - for themselves and the public.You are all right - they should be allowed to marry and keep their children and the Circle should be more of a boarding school than a prison. Mainly what needs to be removed is the social stigma. I know the Chantry is scared that if noblemen's children are allowed to retain their titles AND be trained as mages that will lead to another Emperium but I disagree. It's not like the Tevinter were born overnight - it took centuries of social conditioning and historical events for it to become what it is today. Also the whle Black divine and White divine systems seem to be most widely spread and really old ones - it definitely doesn't mean tey are the only two options. Unfortunately to this Gaider says somethin like :For now these are the only two options you are presented with. If something else will get thrown on the table remains to be seen.
Sorry for the boring tone, it's all the bloody academic crap I've been reading.
DG also called me (indirectly) an elitist for disliking Tiwlight =( *expects pity*
Edit: Eeek boring top page will add picture in a moment
I think the problem I see with the chantry is that the core religion of Thedas says that mages are bad, evil monsters that are cursed and the source of the blights and darkspawn. Mages can't fight that. The chantry has so much power, how do you try and negotiate with a group that think you are evil monsters and don't think you deserve any rights in the first place?
Modifié par Frishmet, 14 avril 2011 - 04:54 .
phantomdragoness wrote...
Sialater wrote...
signcherie wrote...
Sialater wrote...
Batteries wrote...
tmp7704 wrote...
Mages can see their families -- Arl Eamon is said to frequently visit his child after she turns out to be a mage, in one of the epilogues. There's also the mage from Witch Hunt whose family maintains contact. Most families simply choose not to because they're scared ****less of the prospect of being accidentally set on fire, or whatever.
Eamon has money and status. I don't know much about Finn since I never played Witch Hunt.
Yeah, I got the impression Eamon was an anomaly and Jowan's parents were more the norm.
Bethany says something that makes me think they can't see their families, too. Something like, "If I'd gone to the Circle, you'd be nothing more to me than a note in my file." I had the impression that without a lot of influence, families are off-limits.
Yeah... so let's take lonely, fragile, emotionally unstable children and SEPARATE THEM FROM THEIR FAMILIES. It'll all work out fine. [/sarcasm]
And let's take their blood (did you see the phylactaries? they're huge!), lock them inside the tower, and have big men in shiny armor watch them 24/7. Ohh yeah, this will be just dandy! It will be like one big happy, disfunctional, crazy family...where one half is ready to kill you.<_<
...sounds like my family reunion.
signcherie wrote...
The biggest change I want to see is to have both mages and non-mages in charge of policing the mages. I think having the First Enchanter have equal power to the Knight Commander would be a start. Then have the Templars recruit mages. I think with just non-mages, you get the Circles as they are now, and with just mages, you get the Tevinter Imperium. There needs to be a balance. Once you have that, a lot of other things would sort themselves out.
From the older threads where Mr.Gaider weighted in on the subject, i got the impression Eamon is an anomaly in that he actually wants to maintain contact with his kid. For more typical folks having a family member that's a mage is somewhere between embarassment and source of downright fear -- you can get a glimpse of that in the talk about Amells, how having "magic" in the family pretty much made them ineligible for the Viscount seat.Sialater wrote...
Yeah, I got the impression Eamon was an anomaly and Jowan's parents were more the norm.
Modifié par tmp7704, 14 avril 2011 - 04:51 .
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
signcherie wrote...
The biggest change I want to see is to have both mages and non-mages in charge of policing the mages. I think having the First Enchanter have equal power to the Knight Commander would be a start. Then have the Templars recruit mages. I think with just non-mages, you get the Circles as they are now, and with just mages, you get the Tevinter Imperium. There needs to be a balance. Once you have that, a lot of other things would sort themselves out.
Children get sent to the Chantry to become brothers/sisters and templars too, right?
Why not train mages and templars together and try to teach them to coexist?
YamiSnuffles wrote...
While we're talking about the Circles, what kind of system do you think Anders would want?
On the one hand, he seems intrigued by Tevinter but that mostly seems- to me- to be an interest sparked by the fact that mages are free there. On the other hand, from what I could tell, he didn't seem to want to set up a new Tevinter. I say this because he seems offended by the idea that mage freedom=Tevinter. He's also obviously against blood magic and doesn't seem to want mages ruling over everyone. Further, he does note (I think in a conversation with Bethany) that the Circles are one of the only good places for a magical education.
I think he would still approve of having Circles around as schools but not having them exist as they do now. So more Hogwarts, less prison. Obviously he'd also want an end to nearly everyone in Thedas being taught mages are intrinsically evil and cursed. I don't think he would object to mages being policed either since he has no problem taking out evil mages.
tmp7704 wrote...
From the older threads where Mr.Gaider weighted in on the subject, i got the impression Eamon is an anomaly in that he actually wants to maintain contact with his kid. For more typical folks having a family member that's a mage is somewhere between embarassment and source of downright fear -- you can get a glimpse of that in the talk about Amells, how having "magic" in the family pretty much made them ineligible for the Viscount seat.Sialater wrote...
Yeah, I got the impression Eamon was an anomaly and Jowan's parents were more the norm.
.
Modifié par Dunizel, 14 avril 2011 - 05:02 .
YamiSnuffles wrote...
While we're talking about the Circles, what kind of system do you think Anders would want?
On the one hand, he seems intrigued by Tevinter but that mostly seems- to me- to be an interest sparked by the fact that mages are free there. On the other hand, from what I could tell, he didn't seem to want to set up a new Tevinter. I say this because he seems offended by the idea that mage freedom=Tevinter. He's also obviously against blood magic and doesn't seem to want mages ruling over everyone. Further, he does note (I think in a conversation with Bethany) that the Circles are one of the only good places for a magical education.
I think he would still approve of having Circles around as schools but not having them exist as they do now. So more Hogwarts, less prison. Obviously he'd also want an end to nearly everyone in Thedas being taught mages are intrinsically evil and cursed. I don't think he would object to mages being policed either since he has no problem taking out evil mages.
tmp7704 wrote...
From the older threads where Mr.Gaider weighted in on the subject, i got the impression Eamon is an anomaly in that he actually wants to maintain contact with his kid. For more typical folks having a family member that's a mage is somewhere between embarassment and source of downright fear -- you can get a glimpse of that in the talk about Amells, how having "magic" in the family pretty much made them ineligible for the Viscount seat.Sialater wrote...
Yeah, I got the impression Eamon was an anomaly and Jowan's parents were more the norm.
The contacts between mages and their families tend to be discouraged in large part because family can be very easy button for demons to push -- mages can be susceptible to possession either to protect the loved ones or to improve their lot in life, etc. Again, Eamon being an example. But they aren't prevented. And given this potential of young person becoming possessed or otherwise manipulated through their feelings for the family, maybe leaving them with their families isn't really that good alternative, either.
YamiSnuffles wrote...
While we're talking about the Circles, what kind of system do you think Anders would want?
On the one hand, he seems intrigued by Tevinter but that mostly seems- to me- to be an interest sparked by the fact that mages are free there. On the other hand, from what I could tell, he didn't seem to want to set up a new Tevinter. I say this because he seems offended by the idea that mage freedom=Tevinter. He's also obviously against blood magic and doesn't seem to want mages ruling over everyone. Further, he does note (I think in a conversation with Bethany) that the Circles are one of the only good places for a magical education.
I think he would still approve of having Circles around as schools but not having them exist as they do now. So more Hogwarts, less prison. Obviously he'd also want an end to nearly everyone in Thedas being taught mages are intrinsically evil and cursed. I don't think he would object to mages being policed either since he has no problem taking out evil mages.
YamiSnuffles wrote...
While we're talking about the Circles, what kind of system do you think Anders would want?
On the one hand, he seems intrigued by Tevinter but that mostly seems- to me- to be an interest sparked by the fact that mages are free there. On the other hand, from what I could tell, he didn't seem to want to set up a new Tevinter. I say this because he seems offended by the idea that mage freedom=Tevinter. He's also obviously against blood magic and doesn't seem to want mages ruling over everyone. Further, he does note (I think in a conversation with Bethany) that the Circles are one of the only good places for a magical education.
I think he would still approve of having Circles around as schools but not having them exist as they do now. So more Hogwarts, less prison. Obviously he'd also want an end to nearly everyone in Thedas being taught mages are intrinsically evil and cursed. I don't think he would object to mages being policed either since he has no problem taking out evil mages.
Modifié par Threeparts, 14 avril 2011 - 05:08 .
Dunizel wrote...
tmp7704 wrote...
From the older threads where Mr.Gaider weighted in on the subject, i got the impression Eamon is an anomaly in that he actually wants to maintain contact with his kid. For more typical folks having a family member that's a mage is somewhere between embarassment and source of downright fear -- you can get a glimpse of that in the talk about Amells, how having "magic" in the family pretty much made them ineligible for the Viscount seat.Sialater wrote...
Yeah, I got the impression Eamon was an anomaly and Jowan's parents were more the norm.
.
Especially in very religious families, as long as magic is seen as a curse from the Maker, it is obvious that someone will be embarassed of their children born with magic, and might even want to forget about them. Again, the attitude of the Chantry should change.
Even if they wanted to, I can imagine poorer families having difficulties to contact or come to visit their children in the Circles too. It might be somwhat a long and dangerous trip. Eamon is lucky because of his status, and because Connor went in Ferelden Circle. I don't think he would be happy to have in son in the Gallows.
That is if they even know they are in the Circle. The girl in Anders' quest, Ella, said that her family didn't even know she was taken by the templars in the Circle. I daresay this is outright an abuse of power again, Sometimes they just don't treat mages like people.
thebrute7 wrote...
Sometimes? I daresay it is all the time. As far as the chantry is oncerned mages are not people. Templars rape mages with no repercusions, they are taught that they are cursed from birth, their god hates them, everyone outside hates them, they are living portals for demons, abominations just waiting to happen, and if you don't do what we tell you we'll take away all of your emotions.
All the time.
Lady Jess wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
Sometimes? I daresay it is all the time. As far as the chantry is oncerned mages are not people. Templars rape mages with no repercusions, they are taught that they are cursed from birth, their god hates them, everyone outside hates them, they are living portals for demons, abominations just waiting to happen, and if you don't do what we tell you we'll take away all of your emotions.
All the time.
And heaven help you if you're a spirit healer. Ever read that description? I'll grab a screenshot, but..they're actually FEARED because they have a closer connection to the fade or something.
I don't think it's a strawman when it can be far more common and universal source of manipulation than nebulous 'anything'. This argument is like saying since we can die in any number of ways, there's no point in fastening your seatbelts even though car accidents are common source of death.Sialater wrote...
Almost any individual can be manipulated by anything. Families are a strawman arguement for the Chantry, just like love was for the Jedi.
nekhbet wrote...
It doesn't sound like he's been thinking about it further than allowing mages the same basic freedoms as non-mages: right to family, love, political involvement and not being locked up. Or, we're not privy to his ideas at least. But I guess a school type Circle comes closest to a system that'd suit for him!
Threeparts wrote...
Man, a conversation on the freedom of
mages and accompanying philosophical, religious and political issues
with Anders would be awesome, especially if there was tea and cake to go
with it. I wouldn't even try to jump him, I just want to know what's
fizzing away inside that head of his.
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