57020 réponses à ce sujet

[CatOfEvilGenius]

Threeparts wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Yeah, I'm surprised Wynne got to leave the Tower.

I'm a little surprised at that too. After Ostagar and her subsequent recruitment by the Warden, she doesn't seem to have gone back to the tower, or felt that it was necessary that she do so. She goes off with Shale, and shows up in amaranthine six months later before heading to Cumberland. She shows no sign that she's doing something the chantry or templars would consider wrong, and the First Enchanter doesn't seem worried about her coming back.

I wonder if it's her age and apparent closeness with Iriving that allows her this; she's probably proven herself with decades of loyalty. She's been a mentor and probably a teacher, and that she was headed to the College of Magi to join in the discussions shows that she probably had a fair bit of standing in the Ferelden Circle. 

But still, you'd think the Circle would be loath to let go of an experienced mage and healer like Wynne, especially after suffering such devastating losses after the Uldred incident. Maybe she knows the truth of how things stand between Greagoir and Iriving and the idea of having that slip out was enough to make the First Enchanter let her do as she pleased. 

Yep, see bolded text.  Wynne is a senior-enchanter and very much a Circle loyalist, and that's even after they took away her baby.  I doubt they would let a libertarian mage traipse around like that.  Irving was quite loath to let her go, as I recall, because it would be such a loss to the Circle.  

I believe it wasn't widely know that Wynne was a spirit healer.  Didn't that happen quite recently, during Uldred's attack, when the spirit brought her back to life?  I don't think they were merged until then.  She said it watched over her in the Fade for years, but not that they'd been merged for years, right?  And her spirit healer powers don't fully develop until you do her personal quests.  Starts with that darkswapn fight where everyone bites it but Wynne.  So Irving may not have known.

[tmp7704]

Sialater wrote...

Actually, any defensive driving course will tell you, you fasten your seatbelts to keep the DRIVER safe in an accident, so that s/he can maintain/regain control of the car.

And here i thought it's because sudden deceleration due to collision sends people flying through the front window, especially when they happen to sit next to the driver and lack the protection of the car wheel. The idea of keeping driver safe by fastening your seatbelt seems rather ludicrous, given it'd only affect situations when the car is hit from a side (and only the right side) at which point it's too late for the driver to maintain control anyway.

Also, that completely doesnt' address the actual point, does it?

A child misses his family enough, he may turn to demons for comfort in one way or another. So, no, famlilial removal does NOT fix that.

I don't think it's supposed to fix that entirely, but rather reduce the amount of cases overall. I'd expect less children to miss their parents enough for that when they don't have much opportunity to develop the bond with said parents in the first place, compared to feeling compelled to react when said parents get hurt right in front of them and they've been living together the whole time.

There's another aspect here -- if possession actually happens, if it's in the Circle then there's people who have long-time training how to deal with it right on the spot. If it happens in some rat-spit village then odds are, the one way anyone finds out about it is after the village gets wiped out, along with few others nearby. And then add few more before a trained force shows up and manages to eventually contain it. It's not exactly the era of instant messaging and high-speed travel there.

[YamiSnuffles]

Dunizel wrote...

phantomdragoness wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...
 Obviously he doesn't need to convince a friend Hawke as much as a rival Hawke, but it would have been awesome to get a friendly version of that. And not just because he sounds adorable reading his manifesto.

That's it!
Instead of Orsino, a puppy eyed Anders reading his manifesto at the start of Act3 would have persuaded poor and noble people alike, they would even shed tears maybe. Who could resist that? 

That would have been great. Anders, all shy and stuttering, reading his manifesto to a crowd.  Suddenly the crowd awwws in unison and the people of Kirkwall start to realize that mage freedom isn't scary... it's adorable.

That's because Hawke forced his/her companions to pass out a free kitten to everyone who would attend the reading. XD Hell, I'd go! XD

I just imagined all the companions with a basket of kittens. I started laughing thinking about Fenris handing kittens.

Hawke: Pick up the kittens Fenris! Don't put your hands through them.
Fenris: These kittens are helping that mage's agenda. They deserve anything that comes to them.
Anders: :crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:

[CatOfEvilGenius]

signcherie wrote...

The biggest change I want to see is to have both mages and non-mages in charge of policing the mages. I think having the First Enchanter have equal power to the Knight Commander would be a start. Then have the Templars recruit mages. I think with just non-mages, you get the Circles as they are now, and with just mages, you get the Tevinter Imperium. There needs to be a balance. Once you have that, a lot of other things would sort themselves out.

The Ferelden Circle was much, much better balanced.  Remember Greagoir saying he would take Irving's word that order had been restored, and the surviving mages could be trusted?  So different from Meredith saying all Circle mages had to die, just in case they *might* be blood mages, and her refusal to listen to Orsino's appeals and arguments.  I like that the writers gave us so many examples of reason and extremism and everything in between among both mages and templars.  Makes a much more satisfying game for me.

[thebrute7]

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

phantomdragoness wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...

Dunizel wrote...

YamiSnuffles wrote...
 Obviously he doesn't need to convince a friend Hawke as much as a rival Hawke, but it would have been awesome to get a friendly version of that. And not just because he sounds adorable reading his manifesto.

That's it!
Instead of Orsino, a puppy eyed Anders reading his manifesto at the start of Act3 would have persuaded poor and noble people alike, they would even shed tears maybe. Who could resist that? 

That would have been great. Anders, all shy and stuttering, reading his manifesto to a crowd.  Suddenly the crowd awwws in unison and the people of Kirkwall start to realize that mage freedom isn't scary... it's adorable.

That's because Hawke forced his/her companions to pass out a free kitten to everyone who would attend the reading. XD Hell, I'd go! XD

I just imagined all the companions with a basket of kittens. I started laughing thinking about Fenris handing kittens.

Hawke: Pick up the kittens Fenris! Don't put your hands through them.
Fenris: These kittens are helping that mage's agenda. They deserve anything that comes to them.
Anders: :crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:

 ...  ...  ...

[Threeparts]

signcherie wrote...

Also, I have a hard time believing that the majority of families are embarrassed/scared enough to want to cut off all contact with their kids like that. I'm sure it happens, but as a mother, I just can't see it being the majority of cases. I find it more likely that fear/embarrassment would cause them to hide their mage kid from the Templars.

I think it just depends on the family. Anders' dad wanted him gone, Jowan's family seemed ready to get rid of him, and Isolde hid Connor's talent from Eamon for fear he'd send him away (I think? Corrections welcome in that last case, I zone out during her scenes). At the same time Finn's family seemed fine with him being a mage, Leandra was down with running away with an apostate and bearing his children, and Ella doesn't even consider the possibility that her family would turn her away. Emile's mother was glad to see him, but his father was only upset about their reputation being ruined.

Is it just me, or do fathers always turn out horribly in this game? No wonder they believe in the Maker: everyone has daddy issues.

[tmp7704]

Batteries wrote...

<snip>

So no, no posession unless stuff goes wrong.
Though summoning a spirit doesn't sound like such a good idea either way.

Ahh thanks, that explains it. So yeah, no merging although it also makes reasonable point why such practice could be dangerous enough to be feared.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

I know how to make Anders repent for blowing up the Chantry! (Not that I care, really.)

Hawke: Anders, how could you!? Those people were innocent!
Anders: And so were the mages that suffered, and still suffer because of them!
Hawke: But... there were kittens in there!
Anders: What!?
Hawke: Cute fluffy kittens...
Anders: No! You're lying!
Hawke: Cute, fluffy tabby kittens...
Anders: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Herr Uhl]

CatOfEvilGenius wrote...

The Ferelden Circle was much, much better balanced.  Remember Greagoir saying he would take Irving's word that order had been restored, and the surviving mages could be trusted?  So different from Meredith saying all Circle mages had to die, just in case they *might* be blood mages, and her refusal to listen to Orsino's appeals and arguments.  I like that the writers gave us so many examples of reason and extremism and everything in between among both mages and templars.  Makes a much more satisfying game for me.

Given what Orsino does, she kind of made a good call in not listening to him.

[shiba5]

This page needs more Anders.

[Jean]

Threeparts wrote...

Batteries wrote...

I really wanted to be able to read his manifesto just to see what he's got running around in his head.

Then I wanted a writer to write it since you don't really get much in the game.

If it was me talking about religion issues in Thedas, I'd probably be spontaneously going justice-mode from my over dramatic self. Difference would be is that I'd argue the Maker never existed.
That would cause some problems in that world, I think.

I don't know - we've not grown up with the Chant and all the stories that accompany it; Anders could well shed some light (hurr) on how things work in Thedas and pass on information about the Maker that we don't yet know. I'm an atheist in reality, but Thedas isn't our world so I'd be open to persuasion that the Maker or the Creators or the Old Gods or what have you at least have the potential to have existed at some point. I'd have to know more to really decide.

And if I could just get my hands on full copies of books mentioned in the codex entries, and maybe wander through the Chantry and Circle archives for a month or two...
What can I say? I'm a research ****, and being able to go through the library books in Witch Hunt made me happy in my pants.

I am an atheist too and everything you said is perfectly true.

As far as Dragon Age goes, I do think there's truth to all religions. Especially elven. I actually do think that a lot of these gods from different religions can all possibly be the same thing but just a different interpretation but that's getting into something else here.

I do note that the only character I can think of that actually said out loud they don't believe in the Maker was Morrigan. And Flemeth raised her and said that she raised Morrigan to think like she does.

But given if I was in that world I do think I would have a Morrigan-ish view of it in the way she described this Maker as "an absentee father figure" that people wish to please. I'd think "Why do I need or even want to praise someone who is gone?"

Flemeth and the Maker are secretly bffs and she's gonna troll Morrigan so hard

Modifié par Batteries, 14 avril 2011 - 05:46 .

[YamiSnuffles]

Threeparts wrote...

Is it just me, or do fathers always turn out horribly in this game? No wonder they believe in the Maker: everyone has daddy issues.

Except Malcolm Hawke! I guess he was just too awesome too live. And I suppose Hawke ended up with daddy issues anyway.

[Sialater]

tmp7704 wrote...

A child misses his family enough, he may turn to demons for comfort in one way or another. So, no, famlilial removal does NOT fix that.

I don't think it's supposed to fix that entirely, but rather reduce the amount of cases overall. I'd expect less children to miss their parents enough for that when they don't have much opportunity to develop the bond with said parents in the first place, compared to feeling compelled to react when said parents get hurt right in front of them and they've been living together the whole time.

There's another aspect here -- if possession actually happens, if it's in the Circle then there's people who have long-time training how to deal with it right on the spot. If it happens in some rat-spit village then odds are, the one way anyone finds out about it is after the village gets wiped out, along with few others nearby. And then add few more before a trained force shows up and manages to eventually contain it. It's not exactly the era of instant messaging and high-speed travel there.

The children are taken at ages 4-6.  I loved my parents in Kindergarten, I have the crappy artwork to prove it.  That's plenty of time to bond with the parents.

Removing the families entirely is still stupid.  A child in a rat-spit village may be dangerous, but taking him from his parents and preventing all contact (and yes, convincing the parents the child is a monster is one way of doing that) is not the answer.  Rather, limited physical contact with some form of letters or communication is better. 

Remember the suicide rate Anders mentions?

[nos_astra]

signcherie wrote...
Also, I have a hard time believing that the majority of families are embarrassed/scared enough to want to cut off all contact with their kids like that. I'm sure it happens, but as a mother, I just can't see it being the majority of cases. I find it more likely that fear/embarrassment would cause them to hide their mage kid from the Templars.

Their world is not our world.

[thebrute7]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

I know how to make Anders repent for blowing up the Chantry! (Not that I care, really.)

Hawke: Anders, how could you!? Those people were innocent!
Anders: And so were the mages that suffered, and still suffer because of them!
Hawke: But... there were kittens in there!
Anders: What!?
Hawke: Cute fluffy kittens...
Anders: No! You're lying!
Hawke: Cute, fluffy tabby kittens...
Anders: Maker Nooooooo!!!

FIXED

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Oh, I'm so out of practice writing sex scenes for couples that don't involve a turian. DAMN YOU GARRUS.

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

shiba5 wrote...

This page needs more Anders.

As a skilled healer, Anders makes everything better...

Up until DA2, Act III The Last Straw.
Then it gets questionable.

We'll blame the Chantry for that.

[nos_astra]

Sialater wrote...
The children are taken at ages 4-6.  I loved my parents in Kindergarten, I have the crappy artwork to prove it.  That's plenty of time to bond with the parents.

I thought they were taken around age 10. I believe, Wynne said that. 

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

thebrute7 wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

I know how to make Anders repent for blowing up the Chantry! (Not that I care, really.)

Hawke: Anders, how could you!? Those people were innocent!
Anders: And so were the mages that suffered, and still suffer because of them!
Hawke: But... there were kittens in there!
Anders: What!?
Hawke: Cute fluffy kittens...
Anders: No! You're lying!
Hawke: Cute, fluffy tabby kittens...
Anders: Maker Nooooooo!!!

FIXED

lol.
I will never get tired of that. XD

[Sialater]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Oh, I'm so out of practice writing sex scenes for couples that don't involve a turian. DAMN YOU GARRUS.

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

I feel your pain.

[CatOfEvilGenius]

Herr Uhl wrote...

CatOfEvilGenius wrote...

The Ferelden Circle was much, much better balanced.  Remember Greagoir saying he would take Irving's word that order had been restored, and the surviving mages could be trusted?  So different from Meredith saying all Circle mages had to die, just in case they *might* be blood mages, and her refusal to listen to Orsino's appeals and arguments.  I like that the writers gave us so many examples of reason and extremism and everything in between among both mages and templars.  Makes a much more satisfying game for me.

Given what Orsino does, she kind of made a good call in not listening to him.

I was talking about the power balance and their relationship, longterm, not about Orsino turning to blood magic at the end out of desperation (and dumbassery).   The game describes their relationship as head jailer and spokesman for the prisoners.  He had been asking for more humane treatment of mages, for an end to egregious abuse by templars, and for Meredith to blame only the guilty rather than all mages.  All perfectly reasonable requests.  Much of the problem Meredith was trying to fight was her own doing.  Many of the mages said they turned to blood magic as a last resort, to defend themselves from abuse.

Sure, Orsino was too lax in his oversight, too trusting of the mages.  That doesn't invalidate many of his arguments, or justify Meredith's exremism.

[tmp7704]

Sialater wrote...

Remember the suicide rate Anders mentions?

Tbh i take anything Anders says about mages with pinch of salt. The man is about as objective about them as some of the regular posters in the mage threads. It'd be like taking Fenris' emo brooding at face value.

Modifié par tmp7704, 14 avril 2011 - 05:48 .

[Sialater]

klarabella wrote...

Sialater wrote...
The children are taken at ages 4-6.  I loved my parents in Kindergarten, I have the crappy artwork to prove it.  That's plenty of time to bond with the parents.

I thought they were taken around age 10. I believe, Wynne said that. 

Jowan says he was taken at 6. 

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

klarabella wrote...

Sialater wrote...
The children are taken at ages 4-6.  I loved my parents in Kindergarten, I have the crappy artwork to prove it.  That's plenty of time to bond with the parents.

I thought they were taken around age 10. I believe, Wynne said that. 

I think it's more of a case that children with magic are taken whenever they're found.

Adult hedge-mages I think have the opportunity to surrender their freedom and go to the Circle, (If the Templar is nice) or fight for their freedom.

Maleficar die on the spot.

[CatOfEvilGenius]

klarabella wrote...

Sialater wrote...
The children are taken at ages 4-6.  I loved my parents in Kindergarten, I have the crappy artwork to prove it.  That's plenty of time to bond with the parents.

I thought they were taken around age 10. I believe, Wynne said that.

She may have.  Emile de Launcet says he was taken at age 6.  I think it varies.