thebrute7 wrote...
Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...
I know how to make Anders repent for blowing up the Chantry! (Not that I care, really.)
Hawke: Anders, how could you!? Those people were innocent!
Anders: And so were the mages that suffered, and still suffer because of them!
Hawke: But... there were kittens in there!
Anders: What!?
Hawke: Cute fluffy kittens...
Anders: No! You're lying!
Hawke: Cute, fluffy tabby kittens...
Anders: Maker Nooooooo!!!
FIXED
CatOfEvilGenius wrote...
I was talking about the power balance and their relationship, longterm, not about Orsino turning to blood magic at the end out of desperation (and dumbassery). The game describes their relationship as head jailer and spokesman for the prisoners. He had been asking for more humane treatment of mages, for an end to egregious abuse by templars, and for Meredith to blame only the guilty rather than all mages. All perfectly reasonable requests. Much of the problem Meredith was trying to fight was her own doing. Many of the mages said they turned to blood magic as a last resort, to defend themselves from abuse.
Sure, Orsino was too lax in his oversight, too trusting of the mages. That doesn't invalidate many of his arguments, or justify Meredith's exremism.
Herr Uhl wrote...
He actively kept Quentin out of Templar oversight and smuggled books to him. This was long before the end.
When he mentioned Quentin, my hawke was like "I am going to ****ing rip your heart out and eat it you son of a *****. [insert rant of horrible rageness] WTF? did you just turn into a monster? AWesome! More reason to kill you.Herr Uhl wrote...
CatOfEvilGenius wrote...
I was talking about the power balance and their relationship, longterm, not about Orsino turning to blood magic at the end out of desperation (and dumbassery). The game describes their relationship as head jailer and spokesman for the prisoners. He had been asking for more humane treatment of mages, for an end to egregious abuse by templars, and for Meredith to blame only the guilty rather than all mages. All perfectly reasonable requests. Much of the problem Meredith was trying to fight was her own doing. Many of the mages said they turned to blood magic as a last resort, to defend themselves from abuse.
Sure, Orsino was too lax in his oversight, too trusting of the mages. That doesn't invalidate many of his arguments, or justify Meredith's exremism.
He actively kept Quentin out of Templar oversight and smuggled books to him. This was long before the end.
I think it happens whenever the magic starts manifesting. That would be scary to see a small child casting magic. (Not intended as a statement on whether or not to lock mages up.)CatOfEvilGenius wrote...
klarabella wrote...
I thought they were taken around age 10.Sialater wrote...
The children are taken at ages 4-6. I loved my parents in Kindergarten, I have the crappy artwork to prove it. That's plenty of time to bond with the parents.I believe, Wynne said that.
She may have. Emile de Launcet says he was taken at age 6. I think it varies.
Yep, completely out -- of his body. (bah dum ching)Sialater wrote...
Oh, I dunno... the look on Margaret Hawke's face when she disassembled Orsino's Harvester Mode with her bare hands....
I'd say she got to call him out on it.
Modifié par Dasha Dreyson, 14 avril 2011 - 05:56 .
thebrute7 wrote...
When he mentioned Quentin, my hawke was like "I am going to ****ing rip your heart out and eat it you son of a *****. [insert rant of horrible rageness] WTF? did you just turn into a monster? AWesome! More reason to kill you.Herr Uhl wrote...
CatOfEvilGenius wrote...
I was talking about the power balance and their relationship, longterm, not about Orsino turning to blood magic at the end out of desperation (and dumbassery). The game describes their relationship as head jailer and spokesman for the prisoners. He had been asking for more humane treatment of mages, for an end to egregious abuse by templars, and for Meredith to blame only the guilty rather than all mages. All perfectly reasonable requests. Much of the problem Meredith was trying to fight was her own doing. Many of the mages said they turned to blood magic as a last resort, to defend themselves from abuse.
Sure, Orsino was too lax in his oversight, too trusting of the mages. That doesn't invalidate many of his arguments, or justify Meredith's exremism.
He actively kept Quentin out of Templar oversight and smuggled books to him. This was long before the end.
Batteries wrote...
But given if I was in that world I do think I would have a Morrigan-ish view of it in the way she described this Maker as "an absentee father figure" that people wish to please. I'd think "Why do I need or even want to praise someone who is gone?"Flemeth and the Maker are secretly bffs and she's gonna troll Morriganso hard
Modifié par Threeparts, 14 avril 2011 - 06:01 .
shiba5 wrote...
Huh, I just got him to say maybe the Templars were right after he almost killed Ella... interesting. I didn't know he'd say such heinous things!
Herr Uhl wrote...
CatOfEvilGenius wrote...
I was talking about the power balance and their relationship, longterm, not about Orsino turning to blood magic at the end out of desperation (and dumbassery). The game describes their relationship as head jailer and spokesman for the prisoners. He had been asking for more humane treatment of mages, for an end to egregious abuse by templars, and for Meredith to blame only the guilty rather than all mages. All perfectly reasonable requests. Much of the problem Meredith was trying to fight was her own doing. Many of the mages said they turned to blood magic as a last resort, to defend themselves from abuse.
Sure, Orsino was too lax in his oversight, too trusting of the mages. That doesn't invalidate many of his arguments, or justify Meredith's exremism.
He actively kept Quentin out of Templar oversight and smuggled books to him. This was long before the end.
Threeparts wrote...
so I'd be open to persuasion that the Maker or the Creators or the Old Gods or what-have-you at least have the potential to have existed at some point. I'd have to know more to really decide.
Batteries wrote...
Threeparts wrote...
Batteries wrote...
I really wanted to be able to read his manifesto just to see what he's got running around in his head.
Then I wanted a writer to write it since you don't really get much in the game.
If it was me talking about religion issues in Thedas, I'd probably be spontaneously going justice-mode from my over dramatic self. Difference would be is that I'd argue the Maker never existed.
That would cause some problems in that world, I think.
I don't know - we've not grown up with the Chant and all the stories that accompany it; Anders could well shed some light (hurr) on how things work in Thedas and pass on information about the Maker that we don't yet know. I'm an atheist in reality, but Thedas isn't our world so I'd be open to persuasion that the Maker or the Creators or the Old Gods or what have you at least have the potential to have existed at some point. I'd have to know more to really decide.
And if I could just get my hands on full copies of books mentioned in the codex entries, and maybe wander through the Chantry and Circle archives for a month or two...
What can I say? I'm a research ****, and being able to go through the library books in Witch Hunt made me happy in my pants.
I am an atheist too and everything you said is perfectly true.
As far as Dragon Age goes, I do think there's truth to all religions. Especially elven. I actually do think that a lot of these gods from different religions can all possibly be the same thing but just a different interpretation but that's getting into something else here.
I do note that the only character I can think of that actually said out loud they don't believe in the Maker was Morrigan. And Flemeth raised her and said that she raised Morrigan to think like she does.
But given if I was in that world I do think I would have a Morrigan-ish view of it in the way she described this Maker as "an absentee father figure" that people wish to please. I'd think "Why do I need or even want to praise someone who is gone?"Flemeth and the Maker are secretly bffs and she's gonna troll Morriganso hard
Threeparts wrote...
Batteries wrote...
But given if I was in that world I do think I would have a Morrigan-ish view of it in the way she described this Maker as "an absentee father figure" that people wish to please. I'd think "Why do I need or even want to praise someone who is gone?"Flemeth and the Maker are secretly bffs and she's gonna troll Morriganso hard
Yes, seriously! That's the one thing I cannot understand and they've never adequately explained: if your god has decided you're not worth his time and taken up his girlfriend and disappeared into the mists of eternity, why, exactly, would you want him back?
You really want a god to return who would abandon your entire race for millenia, who asks that race to prove that they love him through evangelising to every other nation in the world (whether or not they already have their own gods who presumably this Maker was cool with before), and who claims that any of your children born with magic are cursed? You want that back?
And no, it doesn't matter if you - a single person - love and adore and believe in him, he's not going to pay any attention to any of you ****ers in life until you've converted the rest of the entire world to his faith. If you fail at that, then you can be as good a person as you can be, he's still not going to give a **** about you until you're dead because there are still some Qunari or Fex or something that aren't telling him how awesome he is.
The Maker really is a colossal douchebag.
CatOfEvilGenius wrote...
klarabella wrote...
I thought they were taken around age 10.Sialater wrote...
The children are taken at ages 4-6. I loved my parents in Kindergarten, I have the crappy artwork to prove it. That's plenty of time to bond with the parents.
She may have. Emile de Launcet says he was taken at age 6. I think it varies.
Sialater wrote...
shiba5 wrote...
Huh, I just got him to say maybe the Templars were right after he almost killed Ella... interesting. I didn't know he'd say such heinous things!
Wow, how the hell did you manage THAT?
There were so many times I wanted to just lock them in a room and let them kill each other so we could go about and get better replacements. I so would have liked to replace them both.CatOfEvilGenius wrote...
Yes, that was idiotic and hugely irresponsible, given the nature of Quentin's "research". However, Orsino did say that stopped when he realized what Quentin was doing. At that point, he should have turned him in, of course.
That still doesn't invalidate his arguments about overly harsh treatment, abuse, and assuming all mages are guilty. It still doesn't justify Meredith's extreme views. Orsino can be an idiot about some things, doesn't make him wrong about everything.
Sialater wrote...
shiba5 wrote...
Huh, I just got him to say maybe the Templars were right after he almost killed Ella... interesting. I didn't know he'd say such heinous things!
Wow, how the hell did you manage THAT?
He/she sounds pretty normal, i'd say. Ignore someone for long enough* and they will stop bothering with you too, eventually if they're sane enough. And if you then change your mind after looooong time and want to be close with them again, it may take some grovelling and displays of good faith to restore these once burnt bridges.Threeparts wrote...
Yes, seriously! That's the one thing I cannot understand and they've never adequately explained: if your god has decided you're not worth his time and taken up his girlfriend and disappeared into the mists of eternity, why, exactly, would you want him back?
(..)
The Maker really is a colossal douchebag.
Modifié par tmp7704, 14 avril 2011 - 06:07 .
Threeparts wrote...
Batteries wrote...
But given if I was in that world I do think I would have a Morrigan-ish view of it in the way she described this Maker as "an absentee father figure" that people wish to please. I'd think "Why do I need or even want to praise someone who is gone?"Flemeth and the Maker are secretly bffs and she's gonna troll Morriganso hard
Yes, seriously! That's the one thing I cannot understand and they've never adequately explained: if your god has decided you're not worth his time and taken up his girlfriend and disappeared into the mists of eternity, why, exactly, would you want him back?
You really want a god to return who would abandon your entire race for millenia, who asks that race to prove that they love him through evangelising to every other nation in the world (whether or not they already have their own gods who presumably this Maker was cool with before), and who claims that any of your children born with magic are cursed? You want that back?
And no, it doesn't matter if you - a single person - love and adore and believe in him, he's not going to pay any attention to any of you ****ers in life until you've converted the rest of the entire world to his faith. If you fail at that, then you can be as good a person as you can be, he's still not going to give a **** about you until you're dead because there are still some Qunari or Fex or something that aren't telling him how awesome he is.
The Maker really is a colossal douchebag.
Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 14 avril 2011 - 06:13 .
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