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[shiba5]

shiba5 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Huh, I just got him to say maybe the Templars were right after he almost killed Ella... interesting. I didn't know he'd say such heinous things!

Wow, how the hell did you manage THAT?

I don't know... let me go replay it again and I'll give a play by play. I was friendmancing him too.

Ok, after he finishes throwing his stuff away, I said, "Calm down" and then, "You're giving up?" and he told me that maybe the Templars deserved to win and that maybe they were right. He was too dangerous to live and was a terrible example to be fighting for mage freedom. Wow.

Dammit top.

Modifié par shiba5, 14 avril 2011 - 06:06 .

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

shiba5 wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Huh, I just got him to say maybe the Templars were right after he almost killed Ella... interesting. I didn't know he'd say such heinous things!

Wow, how the hell did you manage THAT?

I don't know... let me go replay it again and I'll give a play by play. I was friendmancing him too.

Ok, after he finishes throwing his stuff away, I said, "Calm down" and then, "You're giving up?" and he told me that maybe the Templars deserved to win and that maybe they were right. He was too dangerous to live and was a terrible example to be fighting for mage freedom. Wow.

Dammit top.

I remember my Hawke said something about mages being dangerous, but Anders should strive to prove to be an example that mages can be trusted with their powers, even when something goes wrong.

I loved her in that moment. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 14 avril 2011 - 06:10 .

[thebrute7]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Comparison of faith in Thedas:

Tevinter Imperium - Old Gods/Archdemons
"Our Gods were gigantic dragons... until they helped us get into the fade, turned several of our ancestors into monsters and created the Darkspawn. We can prove they exist though, just ask the Warden-Commander, she murdered one."

Dalish - Creators
"Our Gods got locked away by that **** Fen'Harel who now according to one fan theory lives in Flemeth's body so they can't help anymore."

Dwarves - Atheists.
"Gods? Who needs them. We worship people who we can prove actually did something useful!"

Chantry - the Maker
"Despite abandoning us twice, dumping the blight on us and running off with his mage girlfriend, the Maker totally loves us, and totally exists!"

Everybody else's lame excuse >>>>> Chantry

(Then again, if I were a god, and most of my followers were like that, I'd dump them too.)

 LOL.

Though technically the Archdemon might have just been a corrupted High Dragon.  We can't really prove it was an Old God.  Or rather we can';t prove that the Old Gods were more than erally powerful High Dragons.

I think the Dwarves revere tehStone as well, so I guess they are semi-atheistic.  <--- I like the dwarves.

[Jean]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

Batteries wrote...

But given if I was in that world I do think I would have a Morrigan-ish view of it in the way she described this Maker as "an absentee father figure" that people wish to please. I'd think "Why do I need or even want to praise someone who is gone?"

Flemeth and the Maker are secretly bffs and she's gonna troll Morrigan so hard

Yes, seriously! That's the one thing I cannot understand and they've never adequately explained: if your god has decided you're not worth his time and taken up his girlfriend and disappeared into the mists of eternity, why, exactly, would you want him back?

You really want a god to return who would abandon your entire race for millenia, who asks that race to prove that they love him through evangelising to every other nation in the world (whether or not they already have their own gods who presumably this Maker was cool with before), and who claims that any of your children born with magic are cursed? You want that back?

And no, it doesn't matter if you - a single person - love and adore and believe in him, he's not going to pay any attention to any of you ****ers in life until you've converted the rest of the entire world to his faith. If you fail at that, then you can be as good a person as you can be, he's still not going to give a **** about you until you're dead because there are still some Qunari or Fex or something that aren't telling him how awesome he is.

The Maker really is a colossal douchebag.

Comparison of faith in Thedas:

Tevinter Imperium - Old Gods/Archdemons
"Our Gods were gigantic dragons... until they helped us get into the fade, turned several of our ancestors into monsters and created the Darkspawn. We can prove they exist though, just ask the Warden-Commander, she murdered one."

Dalish - Creators
"Our Gods got locked away by that **** Fen'Harel who now according to one fan theory lives in Flemeth's body so they can't help anymore."

Dwarves - Atheists.
"Gods? Who needs them. We worship people who we can prove actually did something useful!"

Chantry - the Maker
"Despite abandoning us twice, dumping the blight on us and running off with his mage girlfriend, the Maker totally loves us, and totally exists!"

Everybody else's lame excuse >>>>> Chantry

(Then again, if I were a god, and most of my followers were like that, I'd dump them too.)

Ugh this so bad.

I love the dwarves so much. I wanted to smack most of them during the quest in Orzammar and think their customs suck with the casteless and so on, but I still love them.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Yeah, caste systems always suck.

[shiba5]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Huh, I just got him to say maybe the Templars were right after he almost killed Ella... interesting. I didn't know he'd say such heinous things!

Wow, how the hell did you manage THAT?

I don't know... let me go replay it again and I'll give a play by play. I was friendmancing him too.

Ok, after he finishes throwing his stuff away, I said, "Calm down" and then, "You're giving up?" and he told me that maybe the Templars deserved to win and that maybe they were right. He was too dangerous to live and was a terrible example to be fighting for mage freedom. Wow.

Dammit top.

I remember my Hawke said something about mages being dangerous, but Anders should strive to prove to be an example that mages can be trusted with their powers, even when something goes wrong.

I loved her in that moment. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

Yes, that's after that. I had never heard him say that part about the Templars being right before. Poor thing. Good thing he gets to snarf Hawke's face off the next time he gets clicked on.

[nyxocity]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

Batteries wrote...

But given if I was in that world I do think I would have a Morrigan-ish view of it in the way she described this Maker as "an absentee father figure" that people wish to please. I'd think "Why do I need or even want to praise someone who is gone?"

Flemeth and the Maker are secretly bffs and she's gonna troll Morrigan so hard

Yes, seriously! That's the one thing I cannot understand and they've never adequately explained: if your god has decided you're not worth his time and taken up his girlfriend and disappeared into the mists of eternity, why, exactly, would you want him back?

You really want a god to return who would abandon your entire race for millenia, who asks that race to prove that they love him through evangelising to every other nation in the world (whether or not they already have their own gods who presumably this Maker was cool with before), and who claims that any of your children born with magic are cursed? You want that back?

And no, it doesn't matter if you - a single person - love and adore and believe in him, he's not going to pay any attention to any of you ****ers in life until you've converted the rest of the entire world to his faith. If you fail at that, then you can be as good a person as you can be, he's still not going to give a **** about you until you're dead because there are still some Qunari or Fex or something that aren't telling him how awesome he is.

The Maker really is a colossal douchebag.

Comparison of faith in Thedas:

Tevinter Imperium - Old Gods/Archdemons
"Our Gods were gigantic dragons... until they helped us get into the fade, turned several of our ancestors into monsters and created the Darkspawn. We can prove they exist though, just ask the Warden-Commander, she murdered one."

Dalish - Creators
"Our Gods got locked away by that **** Fen'Harel who now according to one fan theory lives in Flemeth's body so they can't help anymore."

Dwarves - Atheists.
"Gods? Who needs them. We worship people who we can prove actually did something useful!"

Chantry - the Maker
"Despite abandoning us twice, dumping the blight on us and running off with his mage girlfriend, the Maker totally loves us, and totally exists!"

Everybody else's lame excuse >>>>> Chantry

(Then again, if I were a god, and most of my followers were like that, I'd dump them too.)

I find it interesting that the Dalish gods AND the Maker cannot/will not help their followers. Throw in the Dwarves not believing in Gods and no one in  Thedas has access to any kind of God-like support. It's a Godless world, basically.

That's leaving aside the Archdemons, which I'm not entirely clear on, but I don't think they do much now besides start Blights, right?

Modifié par thenyxie, 14 avril 2011 - 06:20 .

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Huh, I just got him to say maybe the Templars were right after he almost killed Ella... interesting. I didn't know he'd say such heinous things!

Wow, how the hell did you manage THAT?

I don't know... let me go replay it again and I'll give a play by play. I was friendmancing him too.

Ok, after he finishes throwing his stuff away, I said, "Calm down" and then, "You're giving up?" and he told me that maybe the Templars deserved to win and that maybe they were right. He was too dangerous to live and was a terrible example to be fighting for mage freedom. Wow.

Dammit top.

I remember my Hawke said something about mages being dangerous, but Anders should strive to prove to be an example that mages can be trusted with their powers, even when something goes wrong.

I loved her in that moment. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

Haha! Oh Hawke. Why don't you have a seat right over here.

[nyxocity]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

Huh, I just got him to say maybe the Templars were right after he almost killed Ella... interesting. I didn't know he'd say such heinous things!

Wow, how the hell did you manage THAT?

I don't know... let me go replay it again and I'll give a play by play. I was friendmancing him too.

Ok, after he finishes throwing his stuff away, I said, "Calm down" and then, "You're giving up?" and he told me that maybe the Templars deserved to win and that maybe they were right. He was too dangerous to live and was a terrible example to be fighting for mage freedom. Wow.

Dammit top.

I remember my Hawke said something about mages being dangerous, but Anders should strive to prove to be an example that mages can be trusted with their powers, even when something goes wrong.

I loved her in that moment. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

I loved my Hawke in that moment, too. Of course, that moment becomes incredibly ironic at the end of the journey.

David Gaider's heart is a shriveled, black thing.

[Threeparts]

Sialater wrote...

THIS is why Moira agreed to the DR.

That and there was no guarentee either her or Alistair would make it to the Archdemon alive.

Speaking of... if your Warden did the DR... did she tell any of her team in Awakening?  Specifically Anders?

Tabris: Probably told everyone that she convinced her buddy King Alistair to sleep with the crazypants witch to save both their asses, but really she suspected that Morrigan just wanted a piece of that sexy rear and couldn't bring herself to admit it.
She doesn't really care about souls or magic or whatever, but at that point anything that might help sounded like a good idea. She was an atheist, but if Mother Hannah handed her an amulet and told her it held the Maker's blessing she'd take five and ride into battle singing the Chant of Light because she was not going to die for a bunch of stupid humans, god dammit.

Cousland: Never told a soul, and felt horribly guilty for giving into the fear that either she or her lover would die in the battle. Totally ashamed of asking Alistair go through with it, and was probably somewhat relieved if she got to tell the First Warden about it, just so she could confess.

Brosca: Didn't go through with it because she wouldn't trust Morrigan to ****** on her if she caught fire: why would the witch suddenly be asking for this if she didn't have an ulterior motive? Happily let Loghain get himself killed while reaping all the honour for herself.

Amell: Haven't gotten there yet. She's horribly naive and trusting, so she'll probably take Morrigan's word for it that the child won't be a threat. If she does go through with it, she'll lie her pants off about it afterwards. Maybe try to convince everyone that Riordan actually got the killing blow and was throw off the roof during the monster's final thrashes.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...


I remember my Hawke said something about mages being dangerous, but Anders should strive to prove to be an example that mages can be trusted with their powers, even when something goes wrong.

I loved her in that moment. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

Haha! Oh Hawke. Why don't you have a seat right over here.

Act III - The Last Straw.

Chantry: BOOM!!!

Everybody: 
Anders: 
Hawke:....You never listened to a damn word I said, did you? <_<

[shiba5]

thenyxie wrote...

I loved my Hawke in that moment, too. Of course, that moment becomes incredibly ironic at the end of the journey.

David Gaider's heart is a shriveled, black thing.

It's a shriveled something...

[Frishmet]

thenyxie wrote...

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

Batteries wrote...

But given if I was in that world I do think I would have a Morrigan-ish view of it in the way she described this Maker as "an absentee father figure" that people wish to please. I'd think "Why do I need or even want to praise someone who is gone?"

Flemeth and the Maker are secretly bffs and she's gonna troll Morrigan so hard

Yes, seriously! That's the one thing I cannot understand and they've never adequately explained: if your god has decided you're not worth his time and taken up his girlfriend and disappeared into the mists of eternity, why, exactly, would you want him back?

You really want a god to return who would abandon your entire race for millenia, who asks that race to prove that they love him through evangelising to every other nation in the world (whether or not they already have their own gods who presumably this Maker was cool with before), and who claims that any of your children born with magic are cursed? You want that back?

And no, it doesn't matter if you - a single person - love and adore and believe in him, he's not going to pay any attention to any of you ****ers in life until you've converted the rest of the entire world to his faith. If you fail at that, then you can be as good a person as you can be, he's still not going to give a **** about you until you're dead because there are still some Qunari or Fex or something that aren't telling him how awesome he is.

The Maker really is a colossal douchebag.

Comparison of faith in Thedas:

Tevinter Imperium - Old Gods/Archdemons
"Our Gods were gigantic dragons... until they helped us get into the fade, turned several of our ancestors into monsters and created the Darkspawn. We can prove they exist though, just ask the Warden-Commander, she murdered one."

Dalish - Creators
"Our Gods got locked away by that **** Fen'Harel who now according to one fan theory lives in Flemeth's body so they can't help anymore."

Dwarves - Atheists.
"Gods? Who needs them. We worship people who we can prove actually did something useful!"

Chantry - the Maker
"Despite abandoning us twice, dumping the blight on us and running off with his mage girlfriend, the Maker totally loves us, and totally exists!"

Everybody else's lame excuse >>>>> Chantry

(Then again, if I were a god, and most of my followers were like that, I'd dump them too.)

I find it interesting that the Dalish gods AND the Maker cannot/will not help their followers. Throw in the Dwarves not believing in Gods and no one in  Thedas has access to any kind of God-like help. It's a Godless world, basically.

That's leaving aside the Archdemons, which I'm not entirely clear on, but I don't think they do much now besides start Blights, right?

So who's to say the whole idea of worshiping a god just came from people encountering really powerful beings and found if they gave them what they wanted (ie. worshiped them and gave them offerings) they were less likely to be eaten/blown up or otherwise slaughtered by them.  The powerful being benefits by having their meals delivered and the people benefit by being protected from those who would disrupt the status quo.   Time goes by, the powerful being gets bored and moves on.. or maybe dies. But the stories of it's power only get bigger and more embelleshed as they get passed on from one generation to the next.  

Modifié par Frishmet, 14 avril 2011 - 06:25 .

[shiba5]

OMG, my friend is still trying to stop Anders from blowing up the Chantry. I got an email, and it says, "I think you may be right..."

/head desk

I TOLD HIM!

[phantomdragoness]

Threeparts wrote...

Sialater wrote...

THIS is why Moira agreed to the DR.

That and there was no guarentee either her or Alistair would make it to the Archdemon alive.

Speaking of... if your Warden did the DR... did she tell any of her team in Awakening?  Specifically Anders?

Tabris: Probably told everyone that she convinced her buddy King Alistair to sleep with the crazypants witch to save both their asses, but really she suspected that Morrigan just wanted a piece of that sexy rear and couldn't bring herself to admit it.
She doesn't really care about souls or magic or whatever, but at that point anything that might help sounded like a good idea. She was an atheist, but if Mother Hannah handed her an amulet and told her it held the Maker's blessing she'd take five and ride into battle singing the Chant of Light because she was not going to die for a bunch of stupid humans, god dammit.

Cousland: Never told a soul, and felt horribly guilty for giving into the fear that either she or her lover would die in the battle. Totally ashamed of asking Alistair go through with it, and was probably somewhat relieved if she got to tell the First Warden about it, just so she could confess.

Brosca: Didn't go through with it because she wouldn't trust Morrigan to ****** on her if she caught fire: why would the witch suddenly be asking for this if she didn't have an ulterior motive? Happily let Loghain get himself killed while reaping all the honour for herself.

Amell: Haven't gotten there yet. She's horribly naive and trusting, so she'll probably take Morrigan's word for it that the child won't be a threat. If she does go through with it, she'll lie her pants off about it afterwards. Maybe try to convince everyone that Riordan actually got the killing blow and was throw off the roof during the monster's final thrashes.

Heh...none of my Wardens regretted doing the Ritual - maybe because she had Loghain do it, and considered it a partial pay-back.

Warden: "Shuffle through her swamp, make a god-baby, and we'll be good!"
Loghain: "...I hate you."
Warden: "Aww...I love you, too. Now shake it, Loghain." *shoves him in room*

[Jean]

shiba5 wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

I loved my Hawke in that moment, too. Of course, that moment becomes incredibly ironic at the end of the journey.

David Gaider's heart is a shriveled, black thing.

It's a shriveled something...

"One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just
like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide.
When He rises, everyone will see..."

[Dasha Dreyson]

Frishmet wrote...

So who's to say the whole idea of worshiping a god just came from people encountering really powerful beings and found if they gave them what they wanted (ie. worshiped them and gave them offerings) they were less likely to be eaten/blown up or otherwise slaughtered by them.  The powerful being benefits by having their meals delivered and the people benefit by being protected from those who would disrupt the status quo.   Time goes by, the powerful being gets bored and moves on.. or maybe dies. But the stories of it's power only get bigger and more embelleshed as they get passed on from one generation to the next.  

Heehee, Andrastre cheated on her husband with a desire demon.

[Sialater]

Threeparts wrote...

Sialater wrote...

THIS is why Moira agreed to the DR.

That and there was no guarentee either her or Alistair would make it to the Archdemon alive.

Speaking of... if your Warden did the DR... did she tell any of her team in Awakening?  Specifically Anders?

Tabris: Probably told everyone that she convinced her buddy King Alistair to sleep with the crazypants witch to save both their asses, but really she suspected that Morrigan just wanted a piece of that sexy rear and couldn't bring herself to admit it.
She doesn't really care about souls or magic or whatever, but at that point anything that might help sounded like a good idea. She was an atheist, but if Mother Hannah handed her an amulet and told her it held the Maker's blessing she'd take five and ride into battle singing the Chant of Light because she was not going to die for a bunch of stupid humans, god dammit.

Cousland: Never told a soul, and felt horribly guilty for giving into the fear that either she or her lover would die in the battle. Totally ashamed of asking Alistair go through with it, and was probably somewhat relieved if she got to tell the First Warden about it, just so she could confess.

Brosca: Didn't go through with it because she wouldn't trust Morrigan to ****** on her if she caught fire: why would the witch suddenly be asking for this if she didn't have an ulterior motive? Happily let Loghain get himself killed while reaping all the honour for herself.

Amell: Haven't gotten there yet. She's horribly naive and trusting, so she'll probably take Morrigan's word for it that the child won't be a threat. If she does go through with it, she'll lie her pants off about it afterwards. Maybe try to convince everyone that Riordan actually got the killing blow and was throw off the roof during the monster's final thrashes.

Surana:  Told Zevran and The First and Fiona.  (It's in The Rescue. )  And since that was out of the bag, told Oghren, Nate and Anders.  Which means Justice knows now, too. 

Cousland:  Told no one.  She'll go to her Calling with that a secret.

Aeducan:  Tells Zevran.  Eventually, tells Oghren, Sigrun, Nate and Anders.

Wonder if knowing would have an effect on him that we just don't get to see?

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Sialater wrote...

Speaking of... if your Warden did the DR... did she tell any of her team in Awakening?  Specifically Anders?

Mahariel: A rare moment of weakness/cowardice for her in a way, but she convinced Loghain to take the ritual. She decided that the world was going to be a little chaotic in the aftermath, and she wanted to be there to protect her people if needed.
Saw no reason to share.

Tabris: Loved Morrigan to death, but he wasn't willing to let her trap an Archdemon's soul in his child.

Surana: Had just found a purpose in life, and sure as hell wasn't about to leave Zev. He took the ritual, and blabbed when Anders and Oghren got him drunk to pry the gossip.

Cousland: Selfish b*ch of the year took the ritual.
Gloated about surviving, but kept the ritual a secret

Brosca: Die for these lot? Are you ****ing ****ing me!? No way. I have a sister, a nephew, a royal brother and a paragonhood waiting for me back home!
Bragged like hell.

Adeucan: Didn't trust Morrigan at all. She sent Loghain to die.

Amell: She was afraid of dying, and went through with it.
Never spoke of it, out of shame

Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 14 avril 2011 - 06:32 .

[thebrute7]

Cousland - Convinced Alistair to go through with it out of fear. Will die keeping it a secret

Aeducan - Refused DR, died killing the Archdemon

Surana (my canon) - Refused DR, (Old God in the form of a human? not good) Loghain took the final blow.

[Jean]

All my Wardens will die with that knowledge.

[shiba5]

Batteries wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

I loved my Hawke in that moment, too. Of course, that moment becomes incredibly ironic at the end of the journey.

David Gaider's heart is a shriveled, black thing.

It's a shriveled something...

"One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just
like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide.
When He rises, everyone will see..."

If we keep this up, we're going to get a tranquil Anders snow globe filled with tears.

[nyxocity]

Frishmet wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

I find it interesting that the Dalish gods AND the Maker cannot/will not help their followers. Throw in the Dwarves not believing in Gods and no one in  Thedas has access to any kind of God-like help. It's a Godless world, basically.

That's leaving aside the Archdemons, which I'm not entirely clear on, but I don't think they do much now besides start Blights, right?

So who's to say the whole idea of worshiping a god just came from people encountering really powerful beings and found if they gave them what they wanted (ie. worshiped them and gave them offerings) they were less likely to be eaten/blown up or otherwise slaughtered by them.  The powerful being benefits by having their meals delivered and the people benefit by being protected from those who would disrupt the status quo.   Time goes by, the powerful being gets bored and moves on.. or maybe dies. But the stories of it's power only get bigger and more embelleshed as they get passed on from one generation to the next.  

It could entirely have happened like that. Which is where I was going with that. My characters have always simply accepted these stories, but what if there never was ANYthing at all except a need in the races to create/believe in God(s) without any proof at all, or as you say, those stories grew out of encountering extremely powerful creatures? I find that really fascinating food for thought. My characters always figure the Maker and/or the Dalish Gods are out there somewhere, even if my characters don't give a fig for either of them. But what if they aren't, and never were?

[Jean]

shiba5 wrote...

Batteries wrote...

shiba5 wrote...

thenyxie wrote...

I loved my Hawke in that moment, too. Of course, that moment becomes incredibly ironic at the end of the journey.

David Gaider's heart is a shriveled, black thing.

It's a shriveled something...

"One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just
like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide.
When He rises, everyone will see..."

If we keep this up, we're going to get a tranquil Anders snow globe filled with tears.

With "Anders never loved you" etched into the bottom.

[Frishmet]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Frishmet wrote...

So who's to say the whole idea of worshiping a god just came from people encountering really powerful beings and found if they gave them what they wanted (ie. worshiped them and gave them offerings) they were less likely to be eaten/blown up or otherwise slaughtered by them.  The powerful being benefits by having their meals delivered and the people benefit by being protected from those who would disrupt the status quo.   Time goes by, the powerful being gets bored and moves on.. or maybe dies. But the stories of it's power only get bigger and more embelleshed as they get passed on from one generation to the next.  

Heehee, Andrastre cheated on her husband with a desire demon.

Haha! Yes - interesting image there..   Of course we all know that believing in a diety doesn't even need any kind of actual supernatural being in the first place. But given that there are so many real supernatural beings in Thedas they could have really shaped the direction of how various religions got started.