leggywillow wrote...
YESSSSS SUNNY LOVE!!!!
Mac = Carver, doesn't he? It's a perfect comparison.
Modifié par Tasmen, 14 avril 2011 - 09:28 .
ipgd wrote...
Zevran wouldn't cheat on you because he's a video game character and approaching the issue of infidelity would make many people uncomfortable. If he were a real person, it wouldn't be as clean cut as that.Ryzaki wrote...
ipgd wrote...
You're free to believe that if you want, I'm just saying not everybody can play by those rules and you're in for a world of damage if you ever end up with a ZevranStick to the Alistairs.
Are you serious? Did you get anything from Zevran's conversations other than his sexual escapedes?
Zevran is honest (once you gain his loyalty) and he doesn't beat around the bush. There will be no world of damage why? Because Zevran's not the type to lie and decieve his lover.
I mean the mind boggles.
Zevran likes sex sure. Nothing wrong with that. This whole "oh he'll cheat on you!" thing is mindboggling. If Zevran wanted an open relationship he's the type to say it from the start. I'm sure he'd have no issue with the Warden bringing it up and would follow along with it. But if he had no problem with sleeping with other people he would've told the Warden that. Once you have Zevran's trust he is very straight up with you.
Infidelity aside, it just boggles my mind why someone strictly monogamous would want to be with someone like Zevran whose promiscuity is such a core part of his identity. At best, even if he never strays for the rest of his life, you're sowing the seeds of festering resentment where you stop being his lover and become the symbol of the end of his sexual agency and fulfillment. He's not the type of person who would be satisfied by a single partner, and while he could be the type of person to respect your wishes, you'd be imposing misery upon him. It's better to find relationships with like-minded people instead of forcing people to be something they are not.
I'm just telling you, while it's hard to understand non-monogamous people as a monogamous person, you can't expect everyone to be as you are. Even if it is very easy for you, it can be very difficult and/or a source of unhappiness for other people. And just because monogamy is the cultural norm, it cannot be expected from everyone, and it's a very bad practice to extract from people promises that they cannot keep. You don't have to believe me now, but trust me and my glib condescension, you will figure this out on your own sooner or later :happy:
Modifié par thenyxie, 14 avril 2011 - 09:26 .
In the conversation you have with Wynne about the libertarians, he actually says something along the lines of, " they want to separate completely from the chantry? that's madness!" lolBatteries wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
Batteries wrote...
thebrute7 wrote...
Is that a real question?Batteries wrote...
Did Anders ever mention which fraternity he supported? If any?
I'm talking about Awakening. I remember some sort of conversation with Wynne but can't remeber what he said exactly
I am pretty sure if he had to choose he would be a libertarian. But in awakening all he cares about is escaping really. So maybe none.
Ehh nevermind.
Frishmet wrote...
In my own play throughs I tended to see Zevran more as you do. Especially since if you are romancing someone else he confronts you with it and does make you choose. He says he has no right to be jealous but then seems so sad if you don't pick him exclusively.Ryzaki wrote...
Frishmet wrote...
I could see Zevran interpreted either way actually. I personally saw him starting off as weilding sex as a weapon of sorts - something to keep a distance from emotional involvement. Once he became emotionaly invested in the warden he may not even be able to use sex that way anymore because it has lost it's ability to be a tool to keep somone at bay. He may not have even really been as promiscuous as his tales but used that as a "persona" so others would percieve him in a certain way.
On the other hand I can see people interpreting his character as really very permiscuous and totally comfortable with it. That's the beauty of making these characters and stories our own as we play them.
My issue isn't with him being promiscious. It's with the whole "oh he would cheat on you" thing. Because that'sbull. Zevran isn't the type to BS the Warden (after he/she's gained his trust). Especially with the whole "I slept with both men and women. I'm not going to lie to you about who I am") conversation with a female Warden.
So yeah while I can see him being perfectly open with sex and enjoying it like Izzy I can also see him as being the type to ask the Warden first if their relationship was open or closed. (Like where's Izzy brings up sex first and expects Hawke to go along with it, Zevran would react to a proposition by seeing if the Warden is okay with it first).
Again though, I can see how others would want to interpret his character in a different direction and the game provides justifications for it going in that direction too. I love how the writers are so adept at sticking things in the story that let people find justifications for the way you want to see things - as well as perfectly good justifications for coming up with different conclusions too.
Frishmet wrote...
In my own play throughs I tended to see Zevran more as you do. Especially since if you are romancing someone else he confronts you with it and does make you choose. He says he has no right to be jealous but then seems so sad if you don't pick him exclusively.
Again though, I can see how others would want to interpret his character in a different direction and the game provides justifications for it going in that direction too. I love how the writers are so adept at sticking things in the story that let people find justifications for the way you want to see things - as well as perfectly good justifications for coming up with different conclusions too.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 avril 2011 - 09:34 .
Ryzaki wrote...
ipgd wrote...
Zevran wouldn't cheat on you because he's a video game character and approaching the issue of infidelity would make many people uncomfortable. If he were a real person, it wouldn't be as clean cut as that.
You mean like Izzy casually approaches Zevran and Hawke has to say someting? You man that type of video game character?
And real people vary. You're saying it's impossible for someone who chooses to be monogamous when they were promiscious to stay as such? If anyone is trying to cut anything cleanly with that it's you.Infidelity aside, it just boggles my mind why someone strictly monogamous would want to be with someone like Zevran whose promiscuity is such a core part of his identity. At best, even if he never strays for the rest of his life, you're sowing the seeds of festering resentment where you stop being his lover and become the symbol of the end of his sexual agency and fulfillment. He's not the type of person who would be satisfied by a single partner, and while he could be the type of person to respect your wishes, you'd be imposing misery upon him. It's better to find relationships with like-minded people instead of forcing people to be something they are not.
And here is where the issue lies. The Warden wouldn't be "forcing" Zevran to be anything. If Zevran didn't believe he could be monogamous he would've told the Warden that. He tells the Warden plenty of other things to either push him/her away or just to be honest. (Like his bisexuality with a female Warden.)
And I can't help but laugh at the he's not the type of person who would be satifisified by a single partner. Because we all know you can read a video game characer's mind.
I'm just telling you, while it's hard to understand non-monogamous people as a monogamous person, you can't expect everyone to be as you are. Even if it is very easy for you, it can be very difficult and/or a source of unhappiness for other people. And just because monogamy is the cultural norm, it cannot be expected from everyone, and it's a very bad practice to extract from people promises that they cannot keep. You don't have to believe me now, but trust me and my glib condescension, you will figure this out on your own sooner or later :happy:
And I can say the same to you regarding the bolded.
And when you can find evidence that being with only the Warden makes Zevran unhappy you'll have a point. Until then I'm not buying it.
And believe me I already know better than to think I can "change" anyone. The fact is you don't need to "change" Zevran. He and the Warden are open with one another if the relationship was going tobe open or closed it would be discussed and if Zevran didn't think he could do it. He would say so.
Tasmen wrote...
Totally... Been saying for a while that Carver totally is Mac. Those sleeveless shirts bind them together in likenesshood!
Modifié par leggywillow, 14 avril 2011 - 09:34 .
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Nothing like a good pissing contest in the afternoon.
Where my popcorn at?
In the conversation you have with Wynne about the libertarians, he
actually says something along the lines of, " they want to separate
completely from the chantry? that's madness!" lol
Modifié par Batteries, 14 avril 2011 - 09:35 .
leggywillow wrote...
Tasmen wrote...
Totally... Been saying for a while that Carver totally is Mac. Those sleeveless shirts bind them together in likenesshood!
It's so fitting. Carver as Mac and Sebastian as Rickety Cricket are the two most clear-cut comparisons I've been able to make.
When picking up Anders for the first time:
Carver: All I’m saying is that I’m ready for any situation. And that’s why you’re all safe as long as I’m around.
Hawke: …Uh-huh.
Carver: Yeah, I did an ocular pat-down and I cleared him.
Varric: Say what?
Aveline: I’m sorry?
Carver:
I’m saying that I did an ocular assessment of the situation, garnered
that he was not a security risk and I cleared him for passage.
Hawke: What in the hell are you talking about?
Carver: I’m talking about breaking down the security situation, clearing an individual and making it safe for passage.
Hawke: How exactly do you view yourself within the context of our group?
Carver: …the sheriff of Kirkwall?
Modifié par yukidama, 14 avril 2011 - 09:35 .
leggywillow wrote...
Tasmen wrote...
Totally... Been saying for a while that Carver totally is Mac. Those sleeveless shirts bind them together in likenesshood!
It's so fitting. Carver as Mac and Sebastian as Rickety Cricket are the two most clear-cut comparisons I've been able to make.
When picking up Anders for the first time:
Varric: You know, Hawke, I didn’t want to say anything back there
because I didn’t want to be rude to the mage but you really gotta be
careful just picking up renegade mages.
Hawke: I know, but that Warden was like really young and sweet and innocent looking.
Varric: Yeah, right, but those are the ones you gotta watch out for.
Aveline: Those are the most dangerous hitchhikers. The ones that lure you into thinking they’re sane by acting like normal people.
Varric: They act like they’re normal and then they carve you up.
Carver: No way, it wasn’t gonna happen. I had my eyes on him the
whole time. See, I’ve always got an A, B and C strike plan to get us out
of any potentially life threatening situation.
Varric: Yeah, he probably just carved up his mother and father and he’s runnin’ away on the road.
Carver: All I’m saying is that I’m ready for any situation. And that’s why you’re all safe as long as I’m around.
Hawke: …Uh-huh.
Carver: Yeah, I did an ocular pat-down and I cleared him.
Varric: Say what?
Aveline: I’m sorry?
Carver: I’m saying that I did an ocular assessment of the situation, garnered that he was not a security risk and I cleared him for passage.
Hawke: What in the hell are you talking about?
Carver: I’m talking about breaking down the security situation, clearing an individual and making it safe for passage.
Hawke: How exactly do you view yourself within the context of our group?
Carver: …the sheriff of Kirkwall?
yukidama wrote...
I love It's Always Sunny.... I've had the image of Anders yelling "WILDCARD B*TCHES, YEEEEEHAAAAAW" after the Chantry blows up, then running away.
thenyxie wrote...
I don't think you even have to be that promiscuous. I'm not incredibly so, but the idea of being with one person monogamously for the rest of my life is beyond comprehension. Thankfully I married someone who feels the same way. And just as an aside to anyone who might be wondering, we've been together almost 12 years, so, non-monogamous =/= issues in a relationship where you're both comfortable with it.
I can't speak for Zevran, of course. I could see him being monogamous if the Warden wanted him to, but yeah, I think he'd be happier to have some freedom. His happy willingness to go with your Warden and Isabela in DAO shows that monogamy isn't something he requires or even desires.
Of course, he IS a video game character, and I suppose we can intepret him however we like.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 avril 2011 - 09:38 .
I found the actual quote: "Pull away entirely? That's madness. I hate the Chantry oversight as much as the next mage, but they can't just decide to leave. This is a recipe for disaster."Batteries wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Nothing like a good pissing contest in the afternoon.
Where my popcorn at?In the conversation you have with Wynne about the libertarians, he
actually says something along the lines of, " they want to separate
completely from the chantry? that's madness!" lol
Thank you, I couldn't remember and was just having a massive brain fail. More so than usual..
I lost my Awakening disc and youtube is apparently not working for me. <_<
Tasmen wrote...
yukidama wrote...
I love It's Always Sunny.... I've had the image of Anders yelling "WILDCARD B*TCHES, YEEEEEHAAAAAW" after the Chantry blows up, then running away.
I like to imagine that Ser Pounce A Lot had kitten mittens.
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Sorry, guys. I'm just not one for educated debates.
Unless they're about the 4 things I'm passionate about:
Books.
Deer Hunting/Animals in General.
The virus in Resident Evil and how it's completely and utterly possible for that to truly happen, which is apparent when you read in the Wiki that the creatures are not technically "zombies" but actually a very complicated being dubbed with that name because they "rise from the dead".
And Axe's failed marketing.
Frishmet wrote...
I found the actual quote: "Pull away entirely? That's madness. I hate the Chantry oversight as much as the next mage, but they can't just decide to leave. This is a recipe for disaster."Batteries wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Nothing like a good pissing contest in the afternoon.
Where my popcorn at?In the conversation you have with Wynne about the libertarians, he
actually says something along the lines of, " they want to separate
completely from the chantry? that's madness!" lol
Thank you, I couldn't remember and was just having a massive brain fail. More so than usual..
I lost my Awakening disc and youtube is apparently not working for me. <_<
:innocent:
Frishmet wrote...
I found the actual quote: "Pull away entirely? That's madness. I hate the Chantry oversight as much as the next mage, but they can't just decide to leave. This is a recipe for disaster."Batteries wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Nothing like a good pissing contest in the afternoon.
Where my popcorn at?In the conversation you have with Wynne about the libertarians, he
actually says something along the lines of, " they want to separate
completely from the chantry? that's madness!" lol
Thank you, I couldn't remember and was just having a massive brain fail. More so than usual..
I lost my Awakening disc and youtube is apparently not working for me. <_<
:innocent:
thenyxie wrote...
I feel as if the mods are going to come in and kick us for not taking this to the Zevran thread.
So, to keep this on topic... Anders' underwear monuments to you seem to imply he would never cheat on you (except with Justice), but would he be down for threesomes? Er, or is that foursomes?
No, just unrealistic. Possible, but unlikely, and it's a road many people have traveled and ended up damaged because of it.Ryzaki wrote...
And real people vary. You're saying it's impossible for someone who chooses to be monogamous when they were promiscious to stay as such? If anyone is trying to cut anything cleanly with that it's you.
You'd be surprised what people will agree to despite their better interests. There is a very deeply penetrating cultural expectation of monogamy associated with commited relationships; it's very easy to see the white picket fence, 2.5 children and spotless record of fidelity and think that's what a commited relationship means. Our cultural narrative paints monogamy as something that should be easy, and expected of everyone, and for many people who haven't given much thought to the matter, they don't realize it's possible to have a commited relationship without monogamy. If the Warden is Zevran's first real emotionally intimate relationship, it would be very easy for him to enter into that sort of commitment thinking it will change him before discovering it doesn't. He doesn't have to be dishonest with the Warden. This kind of thing happens constantly.And here is where the issue lies. The Warden wouldn't be "forcing" Zevran to be anything. If Zevran didn't believe he could be monogamous he would've told the Warden that. He tells the Warden plenty of other things to either push him/her away or just to be honest. (Like his bisexuality with a female Warden.)
I just say this because I know a lot of people like Zevran, and while the "wild man tamed by his one true love" story is certainly very romantic, it never quite works out that way.And I can't help but laugh at the he's not the type of person who would be satifisified by a single partner. Because we all know you can read a video game characer's mind.
Frishmet wrote...
I found the actual quote: "Pull away entirely? That's madness. I hate the Chantry oversight as much as the next mage, but they can't just decide to leave. This is a recipe for disaster."
:innocent:
Ryzaki wrote...
Purposeof-Flight wrote...
Sorry, guys. I'm just not one for educated debates.
Unless they're about the 4 things I'm passionate about:
Books.
Deer Hunting/Animals in General.
The virus in Resident Evil and how it's completely and utterly possible for that to truly happen, which is apparent when you read in the Wiki that the creatures are not technically "zombies" but actually a very complicated being dubbed with that name because they "rise from the dead".
And Axe's failed marketing.
Educated?
This debate is nitpicking over Zevran. With a bunch of personal acedotes to back it up. Nothing serious.
Modifié par Purposeof-Flight, 14 avril 2011 - 09:47 .
Ryzaki wrote...
thenyxie wrote...
I don't think you even have to be that promiscuous. I'm not incredibly so, but the idea of being with one person monogamously for the rest of my life is beyond comprehension. Thankfully I married someone who feels the same way. And just as an aside to anyone who might be wondering, we've been together almost 12 years, so, non-monogamous =/= issues in a relationship where you're both comfortable with it.
I can't speak for Zevran, of course. I could see him being monogamous if the Warden wanted him to, but yeah, I think he'd be happier to have some freedom. His happy willingness to go with your Warden and Isabela in DAO shows that monogamy isn't something he requires or even desires.
Of course, he IS a video game character, and I suppose we can intepret him however we like.
But you are honest about it are you not? And you would be honest to a partner who expected you to be monogamous? (or was under the mistaken impression that you were) Rather than cause a lot of unneeded stress on both sides?
I'm not saying he would strictly be monogamous forever and no matter what. But no matter what he did. He would be honest about it.
YamiSnuffles wrote...
Frishmet wrote...
I found the actual quote: "Pull away entirely? That's madness. I hate the Chantry oversight as much as the next mage, but they can't just decide to leave. This is a recipe for disaster."
:innocent:
Well... he was being pretty honest. Trying to pull away from the Chantry was a disaster and the recipe for that disaster included poop.
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