27 réponses à ce sujet

[Nikator]

As some of you may have read in the news, next week is a big step for physics, seeing as the CERN LHC-project (The Large Hadron Collider) will start. This was supposed to have happened last year, but did not due to technical errors. While many discoveries are surely going to take place due to this, many are voicing a concern regarding the safety of the LHC-project. There are those that claim that the experiment might create a black hole that will literally be the end of humanity and Earth.

What are your thoughts about this? I am not a physicist myself so my knowledge on this matter is limited at best. I have to rely on what other people more well versed in this subject tell me. Will the world end? Is the LHC-project safe? If the world will end, what will you do? Etc. Discuss!

(Educated answers from people who know alot about physics are ofcourse welcome, but please keep it civil!)

[Testlund]

Is it going to take us out of The Fade?

[Vortun]

No, the world wont end, what kind of scientist team would be stupid enough to use this without nessecary safety, and if it was a possibility, the approval of every single world leader because they just might destroy the earth? They are intelligent pros and aint stupid enough to risk something like that.

[Nikator]

The title was supposed to be a bit humorous. I am not saying that it definately will end. I am however concerned, since to my knowledge, it is not 100% certain that it wont create a black hole to suck us all in. Then again, as I said, I am not much of a physicist, so who am I to tell?

[DigitalOrigami]

They better get it right this time. I was so disappointed when the world didn't blow up on schedule last time. The Earth is still obstructing my view of Venus....

[Vortun]

DigitalOrigami wrote...

They better get it right this time. I was so disappointed when the world didn't blow up on schedule last time. The Earth is still obstructing my view of Venus....

Yeah, you should've seen my face when I woke up an hour late! Thought I missed the end of the earth, buds told me that it didnt happen later, but THAT would have been embarrasing, oversleeping the end of the world.

[Jonp382]

Vortun wrote...

what kind of scientist team would be stupid enough to use this without nessecary safety

Never underestimate the stupidity any individual is capable of.

[Lord Thing]

Nikator wrote...

The title was supposed to be a bit humorous. I am not saying that it definately will end. I am however concerned, since to my knowledge, it is not 100% certain that it wont create a black hole to suck us all in. Then again, as I said, I am not much of a physicist, so who am I to tell?

Meh, it's not 100% certain that my submitting this post won't create a black hole either 

If it does though, sorry about that...

[Blindandbloody]

Testlund wrote...

Is it going to take us out of The Fade?

That would be AWESOME!

[Default137]

No.



It will do no such thing.



Thing is, there are already many many Colliders already set up and working around the globe, they have been going nonstop for the past 10-15 years, some of them colliding things much larger then what the LHC will be, even though they are older, and in some cases not in that great of condition.



The chances of a Black Hole being formed by the LHC is around the same chances of you forming a Black Hole next time you shut down your computer, its never going to happen, or if it did, then they are doing stuff in the LHC they are not telling us ( Hello Mr. Freeman. )

[Inarai]

No previous collider has done so. Now, if there were a legitimate chance, I suppose it would increase with the involvement of a greater amount of energy, but...



This is not how black holes form, ye daft sod! It actually requires an incredible mass, like a star, to be compressed into, essentially, a point. There's no way for the LHC to do this.

[Davitto]

Nikator wrote...

As some of you may have read in the news, next week is a big step for physics, seeing as the CERN LHC-project (The Large Hadron Collider) will start. This was supposed to have happened last year, but did not due to technical errors.

technical errors?....there was a piece of biscuit in it! >.<

Oh and I like to laugh at the 'scientists' who the Sun hires (which I think is Pete from accounts in a white coat lol) who says that the hadron collider will create a black hole.....completely ignoring everything about black holes and how they are created ie the collapsing of a star, creating a pinpoint of extreme gravity 

But perhaps it's going to be like Star Trek and being able to create the Higgs Bosen particle/God Particle/Omega Particle. Sends out some kind of signal and aliens land and give us warp drive and stuff 

[CaptainMorgan1994]

I'd rather be sucked into a black hole then some of the **** that is surposable happening on 2012 right? gigantic solar flares tidal waves caused by climate change ETC atleast we will die without knowing of it.. man we must really ****** the rest of the earths inhabitants "What are those humans up to now?! atom smashing ? again?.."

[Oban Oktbar]

If the world will end, what will you do? Etc. Discuss!

Loot.

What else are you supposed to do when there is mass panic? 

[Vaern Sul]

Well, I've visited the Cern this summer, and Quantum Physic is my passion. I'll answer the question, then.

The LHC will indeed create nanoscopic blackholes, created by the amount of energy found in the LHC's "pipes". Such blackholes last for about 10^-15 seconds, and are nanoscopic (In fact, their existence in directly relative to their size). It's impossible for the LHC to create bigger blackholes. Mind that "dangerous" blackhole are created from a huge depense of energy, when Big stars (I do not have the number in mind, but it's at least 100 time the sun's weight) collapse. We, in Earth have currently no way to create and maintain such power.
So, as a conclusion, the theory that Earth might be "ate" by a "made in LHC" blackhole is, roughly, bull****.

PS:To answer the question of the LHC's technical problem, it's a welding between two pipes taht hadn't been done well. This hole enventually resulted as a liquid hydrogen leak (liquid hydrogen is 0,02 kelvin hotter that absolute zero, that's to say -287,14°C) which broke down the pipe. An entire area of the LHC's ring had also been frozen. It has taken two month before scientists could heat up the place enough to remove the two segments of the ring.

PPS: As you may have noticed, English's not my first language, so, feel free to ask some details about something you didn't understand.

Modifié par Vaern Sul, 16 novembre 2009 - 05:45 .

[Belevorn]

*ironic mode on*



I once got without internet for almost a week and survived, the end of the world is nothing compared to that



*ironic mode off*

[lv12medic]

I'm still waiting for the the Trinity test to cause the atmosphere to catch on fire myself.



*tick tock*

[Davitto]

Vaern Sul wrote...

Well, I've visited the Cern this summer, and Quantum Physic is my passion. I'll answer the question, then.

The LHC will indeed create nanoscopic blackholes, created by the amount of energy found in the LHC's "pipes". Such blackholes last for about 10^-15 seconds, and are nanoscopic (In fact, their existence in directly relative to their size). It's impossible for the LHC to create bigger blackholes. Mind that "dangerous" blackhole are created from a huge depense of energy, when Big stars (I do not have the number in mind, but it's at least 100 time the sun's weight) collapse. We, in Earth have currently no way to create and maintain such power.
So, as a conclusion, the theory that Earth might be "ate" by a "made in LHC" blackhole is, roughly, bull****.

PS:To answer the question of the LHC's technical problem, it's a welding between two pipes taht hadn't been done well. This hole enventually resulted as a liquid hydrogen leak (liquid hydrogen is 0,02 kelvin hotter that absolute zero, that's to say -287,14°C) which broke down the pipe. An entire area of the LHC's ring had also been frozen. It has taken two month before scientists could heat up the place enough to remove the two segments of the ring.

PPS: As you may have noticed, English's not my first language, so, feel free to ask some details about something you didn't understand.

I thought that the only way to create a black hole was to compress gravity at a single point. Like the implosion of a neutron star, where it compresses it's entire mass at it's core so much that it causes the singularity. I didn't think energy alone could create a blackhole of any size.

[Urgnu the Gnu]

DigitalOrigami wrote...

They better get it right this time. I was so disappointed when the world didn't blow up on schedule last time. The Earth is still obstructing my view of Venus....

DO, there's the internet for such purposes...

[Forumtroll]

I wondered what happened to the LHC.

[Monstruo696]

****, I BEST FIND GORDON FREEMAN AND STOP HIM!



Actually, never mind, bring on the head crabs.

[Vaern Sul]

Davitto wrote...

Vaern Sul wrote...

Well, I've visited the Cern this summer, and Quantum Physic is my passion. I'll answer the question, then.

The LHC will indeed create nanoscopic blackholes, created by the amount of energy found in the LHC's "pipes". Such blackholes last for about 10^-15 seconds, and are nanoscopic (In fact, their existence in directly relative to their size). It's impossible for the LHC to create bigger blackholes. Mind that "dangerous" blackhole are created from a huge depense of energy, when Big stars (I do not have the number in mind, but it's at least 100 time the sun's weight) collapse. We, in Earth have currently no way to create and maintain such power.
So, as a conclusion, the theory that Earth might be "ate" by a "made in LHC" blackhole is, roughly, bull****.

PS:To answer the question of the LHC's technical problem, it's a welding between two pipes taht hadn't been done well. This hole enventually resulted as a liquid hydrogen leak (liquid hydrogen is 0,02 kelvin hotter that absolute zero, that's to say -287,14°C) which broke down the pipe. An entire area of the LHC's ring had also been frozen. It has taken two month before scientists could heat up the place enough to remove the two segments of the ring.

PPS: As you may have noticed, English's not my first language, so, feel free to ask some details about something you didn't understand.

I thought that the only way to create a black hole was to compress gravity at a single point. Like the implosion of a neutron star, where it compresses it's entire mass at it's core so much that it causes the singularity. I didn't think energy alone could create a blackhole of any size.

mass is related to energy, thanks to Einstein's E=mc^2. So Energy alone can create blackholes. LHC's collided particle are very light ones, their mass is 2,5*10^-23 g if I remember correct. Their mass, thus their energy, grows very fast inside of the LHC because of the acceleration, thus speed, given inside of the LHC's ring. Thanks to the supraconductives magnets (The very reason why they need to fill the pipes with liquid hydrogen), Protons and Antiprotons are guided to a circular and accelerated motion. Eventually they reach a speed very close to the light's (300.000 m/s) thus having a mass close to infinite. I assume this is why there's creation of black holes

[Davitto]

Vaern Sul wrote...

mass is related to energy, thanks to Einstein's E=mc^2. So Energy alone can create blackholes. LHC's collided particle are very light ones, their mass is 2,5*10^-23 g if I remember correct. Their mass, thus their energy, grows very fast inside of the LHC because of the acceleration, thus speed, given inside of the LHC's ring. Thanks to the supraconductives magnets (The very reason why they need to fill the pipes with liquid hydrogen), Protons and Antiprotons are guided to a circular and accelerated motion. Eventually they reach a speed very close to the light's (300.000 m/s) thus having a mass close to infinite. I assume this is why there's creation of black holes

But E=mc^2 is meerly a mathematical forumula that says that the most energy an object can produce is the mass of that object multiplied by the speed of light squared. Adding energy to something cannot increase it's mass. And mass cannot be increased by increasing it's acceleration. It's mass cannot be changed without adding or removing something.

Sure you can increase forces acting on the particle, giving it the illusions that is has gained weight, like with G-forces. but that is centrifugal force, it hasn't gained mass. I mean, you're not bigger if you're driving in a car at 100mph than if you were stood still.

Also...how did they get the antiproton in the first place? I thought antiprotons could only exist for a fraction of a second before being destroyed creating a matter/antimatter explosion. I thought they were colliding Hadrons, so either a meson (pion or kaon) or a baryon (proton or neutron), most likely two protons. When they collide they give off the antiparticles and what they hope to be the Higgs Bosen, God particle.

The way that black holes are made in the traditional way is by taking a Proton Star which is already super dense and causing it to implode. This crushes all it's mass into a single point under pressures inconcieveable, and thats what causes the singularity the size of a pin head, which can suck in entire stars and solar systems.

[Kalderis]

This is hopefully where insights into quantum mechanics are gained. Lets hope it's more of the open minded type conducting data collection.