219 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord of Mu]

I'm going to point my finger at my idiot brother who ran off to join the Templars. It was sad seeing Hawk's mother die in such a bad way. And I really feel that the closest person Hawk has right now is his Gray Warden Uncle. (At least in my current play through).

I really have to do another mage play through after I finish this round. So many things I need to change to improve the outcome of the story.

[LPPrince]

I wish I could hear from Bioware that it was a glitch that would be patched. Unfortunately, I doubt that's the case.

It just DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. How does anyone creating the game MISS THAT OPPORTUNITY!?

First outcome(Don't go to DuPuis and take the long way)-

Refusing to partake in Blood Magic causes your mom to die from blood magic. Hawke has to deal with the fact that her refusal to partake in a horrible magic caused her mom to die from said magic, giving her thoughts on whether magic is really all that good or bad.

Second outcome(Go to DuPuis and get to Leandra faster)-

Taking part in DuPuis' ritual gets you to Leandra faster and saves her life, thus the use of blood magic saved someone FROM blood magic. This causes Hawke to wonder if all blood mages are inherently evil while Leandra gets into debates with Hawke over what she saw while there and if the magic that saved her was really worth doing.

It could've been MUCH better handled than it was. I'm disappointed.

Modifié par LPPrince, 11 mars 2011 - 01:57 .

[LPPrince]

At the very least, I want to hear someone who worked on Leandra tell us what made them feel that no matter what she HAD to die and why a route like the one I suggested earlier wasn't taken.

[cactusberry]

Mommy. It made me sad, really. Now all I have is my idiot uncle and my backstabbing Templar brother. I really like the scene with uncle, if you're a Mage, in the house after Mother dies when you're sitting on the chair in front of the fire and he comes In, you chat and then he says mages should be locked up forever in his fury, and you can say, "Do you think I should be locked up, uncle?" and he gets all soft.

[Ocedic]

LPPrince wrote...

At the very least, I want to hear someone who worked on Leandra tell us what made them feel that no matter what she HAD to die and why a route like the one I suggested earlier wasn't taken.

What does it matter?  You can take many segments of DA:O and DA2 and say "What if you had given the player a choice here?  The game would be better" and be right.  I don't disagree with you, but I don't see the point of 'demanding an answer' from Bioware.  It's not like that will change anything.

Pretty sure they just thought (incorrectly) that most players would blame blood magic for the death of their mother, rather than just the killer being a derranged psycho.

[LPPrince]

Ocedic wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

At the very least, I want to hear someone who worked on Leandra tell us what made them feel that no matter what she HAD to die and why a route like the one I suggested earlier wasn't taken.

What does it matter?  You can take many segments of DA:O and DA2 and say "What if you had given the player a choice here?  The game would be better" and be right.  I don't disagree with you, but I don't see the point of 'demanding an answer' from Bioware.  It's not like that will change anything.

Pretty sure they just thought (incorrectly) that most players would blame blood magic for the death of their mother, rather than just the killer being a derranged psycho.

I'm in no way demanding anything, don't worry.

I just want to hear the reasoning behind the choice to leave out the player's choice in that segment and why the quicker way through with DuPuis wasn't taken advantage of.

[LPPrince]

TheDarkRats wrote...

Mommy. It made me sad, really. Now all I have is my idiot uncle and my backstabbing Templar brother. I really like the scene with uncle, if you're a Mage, in the house after Mother dies when you're sitting on the chair in front of the fire and he comes In, you chat and then he says mages should be locked up forever in his fury, and you can say, "Do you think I should be locked up, uncle?" and he gets all soft.

Since I'm playing a rogue, when Gamlen says that, my Hawke said that she was glad Bethany wasn't alive to hear Gamlen say that.

That really struck me. Of course, every time Bethany is brought up it strikes me. Varric's nickname for her "Sunshine", all the joking and teasing she had with Isabella, Varric saying he needed to get revenge on Bartrand for Bethany's sake as well as his own.

Damn.

[Annarl]

LPPrince wrote...


I wish I could hear from Bioware that it was a glitch that would be patched. Unfortunately, I doubt that's the case.

It just DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. How does anyone creating the game MISS THAT OPPORTUNITY!?

First outcome(Don't go to DuPuis and take the long way)-

Refusing to partake in Blood Magic causes your mom to die from blood magic. Hawke has to deal with the fact that her refusal to partake in a horrible magic caused her mom to die from said magic, giving her thoughts on whether magic is really all that good or bad.

Second outcome(Go to DuPuis and get to Leandra faster)-

Taking part in DuPuis' ritual gets you to Leandra faster and saves her life, thus the use of blood magic saved someone FROM blood magic. This causes Hawke to wonder if all blood mages are inherently evil while Leandra gets into debates with Hawke over what she saw while there and if the magic that saved her was really worth doing.

It could've been MUCH better handled than it was. I'm disappointed.

I total agree.  This is instance where letting DuPuis live should have helped solve this quest in a positive outcome for Hawke.

[LPPrince]

omearaee wrote...

LPPrince wrote...


I wish I could hear from Bioware that it was a glitch that would be patched. Unfortunately, I doubt that's the case.

It just DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. How does anyone creating the game MISS THAT OPPORTUNITY!?

First outcome(Don't go to DuPuis and take the long way)-

Refusing to partake in Blood Magic causes your mom to die from blood magic. Hawke has to deal with the fact that her refusal to partake in a horrible magic caused her mom to die from said magic, giving her thoughts on whether magic is really all that good or bad.

Second outcome(Go to DuPuis and get to Leandra faster)-

Taking part in DuPuis' ritual gets you to Leandra faster and saves her life, thus the use of blood magic saved someone FROM blood magic. This causes Hawke to wonder if all blood mages are inherently evil while Leandra gets into debates with Hawke over what she saw while there and if the magic that saved her was really worth doing.

It could've been MUCH better handled than it was. I'm disappointed.

I total agree.  This is instance where letting DuPuis live should have helped solve this quest in a positive outcome for Hawke.

Exactly, you read my mind.

I just.......don't understand.

I refuse to chalk this up to a rush job of a game(I hate when people say that, whether its true or not), so I'm all for a developer coming in here on their free time if they so choose to tell us what inspired their choice.

[Heretic]

Spoliers:

In my game play , DuPuis revealed that he was Quentin's (the "suitor") student. DuPuis was also very interested in seeing and stealing Quentin's necromancy so it was possible that he deliberately let things come to pass so he could see the successful "artwork" for himself. I would've preferred a different outcome though.

I had Varric in my party and he struck an arrow in DuPuis' neck after he revealed his three year long secret.

Modifié par Heretic, 11 mars 2011 - 02:48 .

[Fatrobo]

If one talks to du puis and utilize him to find the killer, he turns out to be the bastard's former apprentice. MF. FML, and such. I'm wondering if it's possible for Leandra to survive if you fine out about the killings in act 1, tell emmeric that he's full an old washed up templar in act 2 and do not meet du puis after hearing about him from emerus? In that way, theoretically, emmeric should live, du puis should have the shades to kill the crazy killer before your mother ever gets too serious with her suitor? I'm unsure, but it's worth a try.


edit:

I think, that the fact that I've seen multiple threads with regards to Leandra's death, says something about how powerful and meaningful such an event was. This speaks to the power of making this a directorial choice for the story and player, and increases the stakes of every action throughout the game.

At first, after reaching quinton's scene, and seeing thte scars on Leandra's neck, I restarted. This was the first time that I was so uncomfortable with a result that I had to see if there was a way to change her fate.I restarted from before the quest three seperate times, trying to find a way. With the choices I had made in the previous acts, my Hawke was locked into this path.

I'm playing again to see if I can save her.

Modifié par Fatrobo, 11 mars 2011 - 03:05 .

[LPPrince]

I hope you don't go back making every little choice in the series of quests different just to see if she survives.

I really hope someone just comes in and says "She has to die" or "There's a way for her to survive"

[LPPrince]

This was all the confirmation I needed. In a PM from Mr. Gaider. 

David Gaider wrote...

No, her death occurs no matter what. We actually tried putting in a "save your mother" version in that quest-- the problem we found, however, was that people treated that version as the *only* possible outcome. Everything else was a fail condition, even if it was a more dramatic ending that added to the main plot. Tying that version to things you did earlier also didn't work, as anyone who didn't then do that felt like they either had to start all over again or just didn't know about it, period. 

It was something we went around on for a while, but in the end decided to stick with the dramatic version. It's not about saving your mother, it's about showing what the dark side of magic can mean to someone when it's personal and not some abstract concept. 

When he puts it that way, its not so bad. I still feel GRR about losing Leandra, but that's what makes the game GREAT.

Modifié par LPPrince, 11 mars 2011 - 03:27 .

[Melra]

Yeah, it's great. But it really rubs you the wrong way after you've already lost both of your siblings. It was my own fault, but it made me drop everything else and rush to the end, because I didn't really care at that point. I Just wanted to start new one and hope for at least bit happier things.

[LPPrince]

Yeah, I still think that losing your ENTIRE direct family was too much(even if one doesn't have to die, they still disappear).

But hey, the game's supposed to be DARK, right?

[Mifune013]

Firstly, if a piece of fiction triggers an emotional reaction than the writers did their job! Secondly, you can't control everything in your life. **** happens!

Anyways, I liked it. My character was a sarcastic bastard like most people apparently went, but when that happened she just blamed herself. It also strengthen her resolve to protect what is left of her family no matter the cost. And damn it, if the Templars make her sister into a tranquil she'll tear the entire Gallows down brick by brick killing everyone in her path.

[LPPrince]

See, my character is a sarcastic sweetheart.

Her brother gets smashed by an ogre, her sister gets tainted and dies, and her mother gets turned into a sick.......thing. And dies.

Its an overload of horrible happening to someone who doesn't deserve it.

Stuff like this happens in the real world, which makes this AWESOME, but I still feel that at the same time its bad.

Either way, Bioware succeeded at making me CARE.

David really deserves that Isabella "I Win" cup.

[Nordic Warlord]

David Gaider wrote...

No, her death occurs no matter what. We actually tried putting in a "save your mother" version in that quest-- the problem we found, however, was that people treated that version as the *only* possible outcome. Everything else was a fail condition, even if it was a more dramatic ending that added to the main plot. Tying that version to things you did earlier also didn't work, as anyone who didn't then do that felt like they either had to start all over again or just didn't know about it, period. 

It was something we went around on for a while, but in the end decided to stick with the dramatic version. It's not about saving your mother, it's about showing what the dark side of magic can mean to someone when it's personal and not some abstract concept. 

The most sad thing about this quest is not that Hawke's mother is killed in an absolutely sick and disgusting manner. The most sad thing about this quest is that we have not been given any choice at all. And a good RPG is always about choice.
I disagree with David Gaider that most people in any case would treat the "save-your-mother" version as the only possible outcome should it be available in the game. Whether it's true or not depends on what else the writers throw into the scales besides Hawke's mother life. After all, in my opinion, a dramatic choice is always a better option for an RPG than the dramatic version Mr. Gaider spoke of.

[Hellosanta]

Hawke is a person who can have really sad history. He can lose all of his family depending on his choices. (Hawke's mom dies no matter what, but his one of sibling will leave or die depending on his choice... )

[LPPrince]

Yeah, my character(Aurora Hawke) is a sarcastic sweetheart.

And nothing but horrible horrible things happen to her. Her life has its positives, but God does it have its negatives.

The Warden has a much better life than her, even if his life is cut short thanks to becoming a Warden.

[AlexXIV]

Nordic Warlord wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

No, her death occurs no matter what. We actually tried putting in a "save your mother" version in that quest-- the problem we found, however, was that people treated that version as the *only* possible outcome. Everything else was a fail condition, even if it was a more dramatic ending that added to the main plot. Tying that version to things you did earlier also didn't work, as anyone who didn't then do that felt like they either had to start all over again or just didn't know about it, period. 

It was something we went around on for a while, but in the end decided to stick with the dramatic version. It's not about saving your mother, it's about showing what the dark side of magic can mean to someone when it's personal and not some abstract concept. 

The most sad thing about this quest is not that Hawke's mother is killed in an absolutely sick and disgusting manner. The most sad thing about this quest is that we have not been given any choice at all. And a good RPG is always about choice.
I disagree with David Gaider that most people in any case would treat the "save-your-mother" version as the only possible outcome should it be available in the game. Whether it's true or not depends on what else the writers throw into the scales besides Hawke's mother life. After all, in my opinion, a dramatic choice is always a better option for an RPG than the dramatic version Mr. Gaider spoke of.

I think it was a poor choice by Bioware. So many things in this game are forced. So that's pretty much a sell out to RPG. Not only the non combat skills got removed, but also real choices. Most 'choices' get streamlined later. Next time they should just write a book if they don't want us players to have a word in the story.

[Sonris89]

This was one of the most heartwrenching and twisted deaths in video game history in my opinion. I thought it was my fault for encouraging her to find a suiter, but it happens regardless of what you do. And the blood mage dosn't help the situation... trust me..

If you let him go, goto darktown to find him after your mother is first abducted and let him find her.. You will see what I mean..

Edit: I wish I could pick up that mages necromancery books and raise him and kill him as many times as I wanted. Hell I'd dedicate the Hawke estate study to it and do it every time I came in the check the mail.

That guy got off easy dieing in combat in my opinion...

Modifié par Sonris89, 12 mars 2011 - 04:59 .

[Nordic Warlord]

By the way, should it ever be released, I would gladly buy a DLC allowing Hawke to save the most part of his family (i.e. Leandra) at the cost of something important.