219 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

crapmonster13 wrote...

The quest was sort of a shocker. For seemingly being part of the main story, it didn't feel fitting narrative-wise. The whole serial killer element seems so out of the blue and unconnected to the rest of the game.

The DA II story is the conflict between mages and... everything. Mostly Templars/the Chantry, however.

Leandra is killed by a blood mage who then uses his magic to stitch her body into a moving corpse. If you read the notes in his house, Orsino has been helping him evade capture and supports his necromantic research.

Now imagine if this was a regular, non-mage serial killer. He wouldn't be able to murder a Templar. He could not conjure a small army of demons to slow down pursuit. He wouldn't be able to use blood magic to track his victims.

[AlexXIV]

Maria Caliban wrote...

crapmonster13 wrote...

The quest was sort of a shocker. For seemingly being part of the main story, it didn't feel fitting narrative-wise. The whole serial killer element seems so out of the blue and unconnected to the rest of the game.

The DA II story is the conflict between mages and... everything. Mostly Templars/the Chantry, however.

Leandra is killed by a blood mage who then uses his magic to stitch her body into a moving corpse. If you read the notes in his house, Orsino has been helping him evade capture and supports his necromantic research.

Now imagine if this was a regular, non-mage serial killer. He wouldn't be able to murder a Templar. He could not conjure a small army of demons to slow down pursuit. He wouldn't be able to use blood magic to track his victims.

And you just made that up? It is not possible for non mages to kill templars? It is not possible for non mages to abduct and kill people? Demons are the only means you could keep others from persueing you? This could be a story in every movie without any magic. And it does not have anything to do with the mage/templar conflict. There is no morale and nothing in it. Such things happen for the sole reason that it is impossible to protect from it. In dragon age as well as in our world.

Come on, first they lose their home in lothering, her son dies in the escape, then they come to Kirkwall finding out that all their family fortune is lost and they live in some rund down shack, then Hawke struggles to get something back and just the moment she succeeds the templars take away Bethany and mom Hawke is in tears again, and to crown all that she dies like that? Serioulsy, drama back and forth, there is a point you should not go. Bioware crossed a line and lost a lot of respect from me and probably other people who are as disgusted.

And again, it is not good story telling or anything. It's about being cheap, sadistic and simply having lost it. If that's how they want to keep the DA franchise attactive, then they surely target a different audience than in the last years. I play Bioware games since Baldur's Gate, but I have never been as appalled as I am now. I don't know if it is popular now that to make stories like that but I always liked that you can make things turn out well, that there is a sort of good ending. Who really needs a stupid serial killer plot that makes you feel helpless in a game? You can have that by watching the news or something. This was just unneccessary and I really hope Bioware regret it.

[ToJKa1]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The DA II story is the conflict between mages and... everything. Mostly Templars/the Chantry, however.

Leandra is killed by a blood mage who then uses his magic to stitch her body into a moving corpse.

Good point, didn't think of it like that. Losing the last family member to an apostate (or maleficarum was it?) could well alter the way Hawke sees the templar/apostate conflict. Especially (in case of rogue/warrior) since the apostate sister is out of the equation, one way or the other.

Modifié par ToJKa1, 13 mars 2011 - 01:48 .

[OniRogue]

I was emotionally involved as I saw Leandra there, no question. Heck I even liked the way the "bad outcome" was presented.

What I hate is the lack of options here. It does feel more like I failed the Game and not my mother; as if I did do everything right and still couldn't save her. My party found body parts, they connected it to lillies the victims received and talk about that but noone in my house even acts suspicious? And no the "Wasn't there something?" comment from Hawke seemed rather awkward after I he went through prior to that..

(Sidenote: I would like a family DLC that adds a few more options to conversations and interactions with the family members. I could stomach the death in the prologue but locking the other sibling away for atleast the rest of the whole game and then this whole questline. Would really like some deeper relationships here^^)

[White_Buffalo94]

Alex475 wrote...

I love all games I played from BioWare, ME series and the DA but now... Only up to that part. To be honest I didn't care much for my in-game brother but the sister and now a mother? This part of the game sucked HUGE time. Bethany I was able to go back a huge chunck of the game just leave her behind and not bring her to the deep roads, only to lose her to the circle anyway WTH. Than the death of Hawk's mother with no option to save her?WTH. I came to the forums to see how I could fix this but from what I read, the game is just messed up (I used mess for trying not to use a bad word).

Next time, just bring Bethany into the Deep Roads with you. Make sure you bring Anders though

[LoveAsThouWilt]

I like how they did this. It shows how, even in a world where choices can be made and different outcomes came come out of them, some things just can't be prevented. Some deaths will happen and you cannot prevent them from occurring.

Still. No one will tell me how to get the Varric scene.... the guy is NEVER at Darktown if I let him go.

[bambooxfox]

I want to praise the setup for this quest. I didn't think too much about the serial killer until the white lilies show up at your house - and even then I treated it as a minor "uh oh" because I assumed, hero that you are, you'd swoop down just in the nick of time to save your mother from the crazy killer. But as the quest progressed, I started to have doubts.. Listening to my Hawke's increasingly frantic comments as I went through the killer's hideout made me frantic in turn, but I held onto that last sliver of hope right up to the point the cinematics cut to that shot of the stitches in Leandra's throat. It was pretty much "oh, sh*t" from there. And then fighting the desire demons and seeing the last one as "Possession of Leandra" ... Phew, what an emotional ride.

Yes, it's frustrating that you can't save Hawke's mother no matter what you try, but I absolutely love the opportunity for Hawke to express raw regret for failing, especially in a game with a voiced main protagonist. Also sweet is how your LI drops by to comfort you.

And now I can't listen to the Hawke Family Theme without feeling melancholy.

[Taxistorm]

I think is was more disguised then anything. It reminded me of the Dark Brotherhood from Oblivion for some reason.

Also I was pissed that Orsino inadvertently killed your mother.

GOD DAMMIT MAGES. I love you all and I side with you and I fight millions of templars for your freedom...

And Anders does something stupid
and my mother turns into a freak zombie thing
and when I set the mages free 90% the time they go and do something terrible.

What is this?!

[LoveAsThouWilt]

I kinda have to agree with the Mages bit. I symphathize again and again and what do the ones I help end up doing? Bad things. Sometimes, not always. Haven't seen the result of the Elf/Human kid that went to Tevinter to learn. Watch and see that he becomes an evil magistrate with my luck lol

[Bachmors]

This was the best quest in the entire game, hands down! I was so shocked and furious ... the sight of this "Frankenstein's Monster" with Leandra's head is just gruesome :-D

But she shouldn't have been conscious at the end ... that was just cheap -.-

Modifié par Bachmors, 13 mars 2011 - 07:01 .

[AlexXIV]

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

Alex475 wrote...

I love all games I played from BioWare, ME series and the DA but now... Only up to that part. To be honest I didn't care much for my in-game brother but the sister and now a mother? This part of the game sucked HUGE time. Bethany I was able to go back a huge chunck of the game just leave her behind and not bring her to the deep roads, only to lose her to the circle anyway WTH. Than the death of Hawk's mother with no option to save her?WTH. I came to the forums to see how I could fix this but from what I read, the game is just messed up (I used mess for trying not to use a bad word).

Next time, just bring Bethany into the Deep Roads with you. Make sure you bring Anders though

Her becomming a Warden isn't much better imo. Sure she will have more freedom, but the Wardens pay a heavy price. So I decided to let her go to the circle and at the end of game I get her back.

[Centuries Past]

AlexXIV wrote...

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

Alex475 wrote...

I love all games I played from BioWare, ME series and the DA but now... Only up to that part. To be honest I didn't care much for my in-game brother but the sister and now a mother? This part of the game sucked HUGE time. Bethany I was able to go back a huge chunck of the game just leave her behind and not bring her to the deep roads, only to lose her to the circle anyway WTH. Than the death of Hawk's mother with no option to save her?WTH. I came to the forums to see how I could fix this but from what I read, the game is just messed up (I used mess for trying not to use a bad word).

Next time, just bring Bethany into the Deep Roads with you. Make sure you bring Anders though

Her becomming a Warden isn't much better imo. Sure she will have more freedom, but the Wardens pay a heavy price. So I decided to let her go to the circle and at the end of game I get her back.

I completely agree with Alex475, MESSED UP. Every option available sucked. Now I commend BioWare for drawing me in like they did with the intense story options of saving family members. But when I arrived to try and save my mother, only to get a cut scene of me throwing a butter knife at one of his level 1 grunts is preposterous. Where the <mess up words> is me replicating the scene from Punisher when he kills the ****** that killed his father??????? Or the 300 scene when we see the father go blood drunk over his sons death?

Something?!?

One dagger through both his hands pinning them behind his back, then another up through his jaw into his skull. And then we go to town on him. Maybe even a fist punch to the next person to open their mouth, including party members trying to comfort you. Seriously devs, this was his MOTHER were talking about, violated in the most insane gruesome way.

Granted I wailed on his ass in under 4 seconds for game combat. But a nice recap in epic cut scene payback would of been gold. !!!***Especially***!!!, sence it is now confirmed there being no way to aviod it. My character would of 'lost it' at this point. Either completely going dark, or selecting the dialog option "I'm leaving Kirkwall" the first chance they got.

Modifié par Centuries Past, 13 mars 2011 - 08:42 .

[AlexXIV]

FaintlyAlarmed wrote...

I can see why forcing the death might be something that Bioware might do, but going there via blood ritual should have gotten you there faster - maybe you make it just in time to see him decapitate Leandra or something, and you only get the 'zombie Leandra' version if you go through Lowtown.

What? I don't want to see her decaptiation either ...

[Raygereio]

I'm with the "it was dumb"-crowd. My main issue was with the fact that the fixed outcome made any player decision in the quest chain meaningless. Gee, way to make me feel invested in this character of mine and make me feel iike I have any sort of influence in whats going on around me, BioWare.

What I would have prefered is not a "perfect" solution without any downsides (such as going for the mages in Redcliffe), but have the outcome be dependent on the player's actions and no matter what have there be some sense of failure. You get there in time to save your mom, but she ends up as an invalid. Or you do save her, but you'll have to pay some price that'll come around to bite you in the behind later.

The way this quest is handled now it can have some impact the first time you play. But in subsequent playthroughs anyone with half a brain will have figured out any decision you make is meaningless and you realise that you the player didn't fail your character's mom; the writers decided to go for the George R.R. Martin aproach too writing and have bad things happen to the characters in the hope it'll create some drama , so you'll just end up playing though it for the XP and gold reward, yawning all the way.

[Alex475]

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

Alex475 wrote...

I love all games I played from BioWare, ME series and the DA but now... Only up to that part. To be honest I didn't care much for my in-game brother but the sister and now a mother? This part of the game sucked HUGE time. Bethany I was able to go back a huge chunck of the game just leave her behind and not bring her to the deep roads, only to lose her to the circle anyway WTH. Than the death of Hawk's mother with no option to save her?WTH. I came to the forums to see how I could fix this but from what I read, the game is just messed up (I used mess for trying not to use a bad word).

Next time, just bring Bethany into the Deep Roads with you. Make sure you bring Anders though

Will that avoid her death? I'm kind of feel like burnning the whole city down with all the "messed up" mages and templars with it, but having Bethany with those ****** mages leave me with my hands tied... (Specially with THIS game killing all of Hawk's family). It got really annoying, I tried to ignore the quest that lead to Leandra's death and guess what, it is a freaking main quest later in the second act if you didn't do it before. It's like BioWare's saying to me... Ha... You're trying to save your mother huh, guess what... YOU CAN'T she's dead from the start of the game, you just didn't know(and than an Evil BioWare laugh).
Another thing, my character is dead just as well, the game goes to lvl 50 but who will get there, what happen to new game +?
And why the map gets locked after finishing the game, one of the Greatest thing in ME2 is the option to continue the game after beating the collectors. But there's no option to continue in DA2, I'm hugely dissapointed with that. The first ME was cool but the second was better for me just because of that. It makes more sence to me to go after the highest threat first, than go help everyone else with their little crap. And just like ME, DA:O didn't have that option(which was the only let down for me) but I had hoped the second would, just like ME2 did... And?????

I also bought the Prince DLC thing but I can't play it because I already beat the game and so I have no access to the city anymore, plus no new game + either which means my warrior is pretty much dead since I have to start from scratch to play it... What just happen here???? 

I'm now really trying to figure it out what happen to DA2... What went so wrong BW?The game looks beautiful and the characters looks great but the things I pointed out, are killing the whole thing for me!

I really hope they can unlock the city and unfinished side quests after finishing the main game, and the new game + option with some patch because otherwise, what I think would never happen... Just did... (got let down by BW).

[Alex475]

AlexXIV wrote...

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

Alex475 wrote...

I love all games I played from BioWare, ME series and the DA but now... Only up to that part. To be honest I didn't care much for my in-game brother but the sister and now a mother? This part of the game sucked HUGE time. Bethany I was able to go back a huge chunck of the game just leave her behind and not bring her to the deep roads, only to lose her to the circle anyway WTH. Than the death of Hawk's mother with no option to save her?WTH. I came to the forums to see how I could fix this but from what I read, the game is just messed up (I used mess for trying not to use a bad word).

Next time, just bring Bethany into the Deep Roads with you. Make sure you bring Anders though

Her becomming a Warden isn't much better imo. Sure she will have more freedom, but the Wardens pay a heavy price. So I decided to let her go to the circle and at the end of game I get her back.

It kind of sucked either way, she was my doc and my sis. Deep Roads = death. Leave behind = dead sort of. Sure she will be back at the end but that's IT... The End

[AtreiyaN7]

LPPrince wrote...

omearaee wrote...

LPPrince wrote...


I wish I could hear from Bioware that it was a glitch that would be patched. Unfortunately, I doubt that's the case.

It just DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. How does anyone creating the game MISS THAT OPPORTUNITY!?

First outcome(Don't go to DuPuis and take the long way)-

Refusing to partake in Blood Magic causes your mom to die from blood magic. Hawke has to deal with the fact that her refusal to partake in a horrible magic caused her mom to die from said magic, giving her thoughts on whether magic is really all that good or bad.

Second outcome(Go to DuPuis and get to Leandra faster)-

Taking part in DuPuis' ritual gets you to Leandra faster and saves her life, thus the use of blood magic saved someone FROM blood magic. This causes Hawke to wonder if all blood mages are inherently evil while Leandra gets into debates with Hawke over what she saw while there and if the magic that saved her was really worth doing.

It could've been MUCH better handled than it was. I'm disappointed.

I total agree.  This is instance where letting DuPuis live should have helped solve this quest in a positive outcome for Hawke.

Exactly, you read my mind.

I just.......don't understand.

I refuse to chalk this up to a rush job of a game(I hate when people say that, whether its true or not), so I'm all for a developer coming in here on their free time if they so choose to tell us what inspired their choice.

I think the point of it was to show  that sometimes you can't save someone you love, no matter how much you want to and no matter what you do. Maybe it's meant to illustrate that life isn't fair. *shrug* 

[ReplicantZero]

Nasty and unnecessary (like the Saw movies).

Although somewhat implausible, I think the final words from mommy Hawke were there to soften the impact a bit (at least she knew that her daughter/son came for her in the end). The thought of her dying alone without any hope of rescue might be a bit too bleak for some.

[da0Xeffect2]

This one was creepy and was disturbing. I loved how they zoomed the camera in on Hawke's face as he saw his mother since it added a horror feeling to it. I freaked when I saw the gash on the neck and when he said he found her face. Horrible for Hawke and Mama Hawke lovers but great twist in the story. Now people can understand why Hawke would be troubled or make a drastic decision if you made him/her do so

[Alex475]

I just wanted to point it out that I still have a mage and a rogue I didn't finish yet, but as it's getting closer and closer to the crappy Leandra's death thing, I'm getting less and less interested in even continue to play the game, as it's the same annoying out come anyways. If at least I had the option to unleash Hawk's wrath, and go on a killing spree after that and burn the city to ashes and get a 1.000.000 renegade points, than it could be more intersting...

[Gibb_Shepard]

Bit of a necromance, but i wanted to throw my opinion out there.

When i saw Leandra, my reaction was "" for about 5 minutes. I didn't feel that sad, just was like "WTF" the entire time. I felt that zombie Leandra was a bit over the top, and how Hawke so casually delivered his lines given the situation, was a bit underwhelming.

And i don't mind that Leandra has to die, but i do mind when she has to die the exact same way every time. BW really should have made alternate death scenes for her, ones that could be related to different previous quests.

Also, after an event like this, there should be a lot more, not just going onto the next quest. Have an in-depth conversation with your companions (not the 2 dialogue choices you get with your LI), go see Bethany at the circle to break the news to her, something to expand on what has just happened and actually make it emotional.

[Evolution33]

The scene to me felt like something out of a dark comedy. They took a very serious moment and added something a bit out of left field. I think it was made to be emotional, dark, and a bit comedic on purpose. I still felt the emotional impact of it for Hawke and even after finishing the game I can't think of what character Hawke reminded me of in Act 3. In Act 1 he felt like Scarface, Act 2 Tony Stark, but in Act 3 I don't really know who he would be. He lost his entire family one way or another to magic if the Darkspawn count since they might be the product of mage hubris.

[CrashTagger]

Her death is unavoidable, either way... I wanted to rip the bastard's heart off when the camera let me have a glance at her neck, when she was sitting on the chair...