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[smjones23]

wojciec wrote...

And you know that you are the reason they release a half assed untested and dumbed down product because they know it's going to sell well.

...they made a game that was better than most games that hit the market and they did it in a very short amount of time. I don't think anyone would say that they didn't take any shortcuts. However, in my humble opinion, the improvements to combat, skill progression, story, and design make up for it. This game was not Bioware at their strongest, but this game is still worthy of a 9 in my view. Especially when compared with most of the crap on the market. I loved it, but I would say the first one wsa a bit better and Mass Effect 2 was better. I would say I think I enjoyed DAII more than Mass Effect 1 though.

[AAHook2]

The game was brilliant in spots. I was thoroughly absorbed into the world, though really this wasn't hard to do to someone who loved Origins with a near religious fervor. The look and the style were great improvements, operating from a newer color aesthetic and a decidedly more Asian design scheme. There is something to be said about the way people took to the original's more homely line and light style, but overall I thought the newer game was quite pretty. Many have complained about the reuse of layout design for levels, but I was willing to overlook the sameness because it lent a feeling of familiarity to what you were doing, which I think was a big point being made about the experience. You were meant to feel like you knew your way around Kirkwall quite intimately and by the end you really did. That said, I do think that this is what makes Origins feel much more epic in the traditional RPG sense of traveling and exploring multiple lands and environments. In Origins, I really liked being able to immerse myself in Denerim, but I had an equal enjoyment of the rich world of Orzammar and the Deep Roads. Perhaps Dragon Age 2 failed to deliver the scope that the original did.
The Gameplay was more fluid especially for console users. I did get the feeling at times though, that I was missing something in the crafting department and lacked something when it came to detailing my NPCs. It just felt like I was wearing and outfitting a bunch of equipment which was just a naturally predestined set to obtain. I mean, there was no choice really. I either slapped on outmoded junk or put on the next best thing before I finally obtained my Champion gear. While I liked that my companions had their own distinct design and style, I was saddened that I had little to say about customizing them.
In the end, although the game was supposed to span a period of ten years, it felt very fast and a little thin at that. In Origins, by the end I felt exhausted and satisfied as you feel at the end of a job well done and an experience of an alternate lifetime. Dragon Age 2 gave me some thrills and definitely some emotional turns, but I couldn't help but compare and find a lack between the installments. 8.0 out of 10.

[FubarCFSnafu]

I just wished they improved the plot more or quests, I mean here are some possiblities:

I though the main plot idea was a good idea. However, the story seemd to be a bit hollow and full of holes which left your story and your companions a bit hollow. This is especially true after supposedly knowing them for 10 years.

Hawke's Family:
I am not sure what our history was or of my background. We are running from Ferelden (Lothering) but I am not sureif I was a farmer, merchant, etc. It may be possible that I missed this, but it is hard to pin down. This could have been done so much better then what we received. You do get some bits and drabs through some conversation though.

1. Finding out the business that the Hawkes used to do. This could have been tied to the Bone Pit whose owner isHubert. A sub-plot could be getting it back either civilly (buyng it out or partnering) or underhanded (killing himor forcing hm to sell.

2. Going into the basement of the Hawke Estate: This was a good start but there was not much else to be found, it would have been nice to find other things of the past other than a portrait. The slavers used it, then there could have been secret rooms built into it for the use of slaves, etc. This would allow further explorations or other quests to find out the family history since apparently they live in Kirkwall.


3. Leandra. As you are aware of what happens to her, there is not much to go on with your character's mother. This could have been explored alot more and opened new insight in regards to your family. After you come back, she is now in the Hawke estate, saying a few things, but not much else. How about a quest to find a a possible husband for your mom. Your companions could have even helped, by keeping any eye out for one during their travels and they could talk to you about in a conversation cut scene. Picture each of the personalities involved, Aveline, Fenris, Merill, it could ahve provided foe some humorous moments. Afterwards, a wedding could take place where it would allow thecompanions to talk to one another during the reception and have the character dance or flirt during this time. Again, it allows immersion and story telling. The plot could still be followed and allow what happens to her in the end, but it would have been even more of an impact because you could now connect with her.

The Bone Pit:
This could ahve been a good jumping off point to provide some solid quests and reasoning behind it. Clearing the area of bandits, establishing a supply route, clearing out the monsters. And guess what, you now have a meaningful reason to go there on quests because you now have a motive to do so. You can also receive income from it once this has been done. You could receive several letters from Hubert with money in it.
This could also be taken a step further, you get it from Hubert, you now have a say on the merchant's guild because this mine supplies Kirkwall (with what, I ahve no idea what they are mining though). Now oyu ahve a further stake in Kirkwall and some quests or interaction can be done in regards to this, you can hire the Ferelden's this was touched upon, but nothing else was really done with it, instead it was left flat and empty. I mean, you could have a mining town grow around it where you ahve to protect it from bandits/darkspawn in another act or year.

Character Growth:
There isn't any other than by saying you are a noble with an estate or champion after Act II. How about the character eanring his nobility and be knighted in a ceremony after doing important work, such as the following:

1. Mage: Creating a new magic item that helps the city somehow, you ahve to do quests and move up the ranks next to the First Enchanter and the city recognizes this. Or you help try yo keep the peace by rooting out Blood Mages and abominations, finding lost texts of magic in the undercity when it was part of Tevinter. Create a new office in the Circle called First Artificer or something. Once completed you could have Merill or Anders could assist you or be your second in command. Afterwards You are part of a cermeony where you are recognized for your efforts. Again, allows for more party interaction. After a few years the office becomes larger and more people work there. this would pit you against Meredith and the Templars.

2. Warrior: You do work for the guards and Aveline or purchase yourself a comission in the Guards (this was done in Medieval times) and you use your party to do this. Such sub-plots could be the clearing of bandits of supply routes to Kirkwall. Creating a fort to protect the cleared area, howrever, this would involve speaking to the Dalish, finding a suitable site, creating a supply route, exploring/mapping the area, fend it off from attack. You can rise through the ranks and be knighted in a ceremony attended by your friends. Fenris and Aveline could take over the command of the new fort. After a few years, it becomes bigger and better. Again, allows for more party interaction. This could pit you agianst the Seneschal.

3. Rogue: You can find out a note in your basement which leads to a slaver guild within the city, you can fight totake it over or destroy it, if you take it over, you can get added income from it, but now you have to contend with your companions who are against slavery. This would allow for interesting dialog or once it is destroyed you then have to ake out other rival gangs and become the spymater of Kirkwall. Isabella and Varric could take this over.

Companions:
There are some that are done well, but again, you are suppsoed to be friends for seven years and not much is actually known about them.

1. Aveline was done well enough, but it was not really tied to anything, by making her a part of you character growth, it could be taken to a new level.

2. Merill: Other than the mirror and some dialog not much else is found, you can romance her but if this si someone you cared about, how about embarking on another quest to find out more about her such as finding out about her family.

As you can see much could have been added to tie everything together but unformatuntely this was not done. These were just some ideas I ahd in my head for about an hour and decided to write them down. I am not saying this is the best but if I could ahve come up with these ideas, surely DA2 could ahve had something similar. In addition, it would allow a better flow of meaningful quests that make sense to do instead of the current ones.

[Xaenn]

smjones23 wrote...

wojciec wrote...

And you know that you are the reason they release a half assed untested and dumbed down product because they know it's going to sell well.

...they made a game that was better than most games that hit the market and they did it in a very short amount of time. I don't think anyone would say that they didn't take any shortcuts. However, in my humble opinion, the improvements to combat, skill progression, story, and design make up for it. This game was not Bioware at their strongest, but this game is still worthy of a 9 in my view. Especially when compared with most of the crap on the market. I loved it, but I would say the first one wsa a bit better and Mass Effect 2 was better. I would say I think I enjoyed DAII more than Mass Effect 1 though.

Problem being is not everyone agree's they are 'improvements' people (myself at times) get their opinions mistaken with facts and truths.  Most people just assume what they think is truth and everyone else has some jaded opinon that is just mistaken. Like I like ME1 and DA:O more then ME2 and DA2.  Does that make 1 & 2 less of a game? No.  Means I may like Bioware less or their products and maybe in the future wont purchase from them because of my dislike for the direction they are going. 

You like them however and see previous versions as inferior.  Reasons for that as well, I can only surmize you are either a console player or you enjoy yourself action games quite a bit as well and tend to see them together as more suitable to your foundness of gaming, rather than seperate genre's.

Modifié par Xaenn, 30 mars 2011 - 03:06 .

[BIGMIKE4444]

great game thank you again bioware always coming out with good stuff cant wait till me3 gonna be sick

[smjones23]

Xaenn wrote...

smjones23 wrote...

wojciec wrote...

And you know that you are the reason they release a half assed untested and dumbed down product because they know it's going to sell well.

...they made a game that was better than most games that hit the market and they did it in a very short amount of time. I don't think anyone would say that they didn't take any shortcuts. However, in my humble opinion, the improvements to combat, skill progression, story, and design make up for it. This game was not Bioware at their strongest, but this game is still worthy of a 9 in my view. Especially when compared with most of the crap on the market. I loved it, but I would say the first one wsa a bit better and Mass Effect 2 was better. I would say I think I enjoyed DAII more than Mass Effect 1 though.

Problem being is not everyone agree's they are 'improvements' people (myself at times) get their opinions mistaken with facts and truths.  Most people just assume what they think is truth and everyone else has some jaded opinon that is just mistaken. Like I like ME1 and DA:O more then ME2 and DA2.  Does that make 1 & 2 less of a game? No.  Means I may like Bioware less or their products and maybe in the future wont purchase from them because of my dislike for the direction they are going. 

You like them however and see previous versions as inferior.  Reasons for that as well, I can only surmize you are either a console player or you enjoy yourself action games quite a bit as well and tend to see them together as more suitable to your foundness of gaming, rather than seperate genre's.

I don't dare claim my word as fact, at least not in this matter I am someone who is fond of games in general but I lean toward rpg's, action, and FPS.

As far as Mass Effect goes, the gameplay seemed merely refine in the second one. They are both very action based games. I played DAII on the pc and I essentially played it the same way I did the second. I paused and planned and then launched my players into action. Same thing I did when I played BG II or Knights of the Old Republic. Apparently, on the console you pushed the button every time you attacked, which I thought was strange.

Let's face it. Bioware's fundamental rpg gameplay has really only gone through visual changes. The basic, core gameplay has stayed the same. Its the great stories that have pushed it ahead of others. It was nice to have a more action approach with Mass Effect after years and years of the same setup. 

DAII's gameplay was essentailly the same with a much faster pace. Unless you played it on console which in that case your experience may have been slightly different.

[smjones23]

Oh, and I did forget to mention Jade Empire also had a very action based approach and that was a good game. Though, not as quite as good as DAII.

[Xaenn]

smjones23 wrote...

Oh, and I did forget to mention Jade Empire also had a very action based approach and that was a good game. Though, not as quite as good as DAII.

I enjoy all titles myself, although in the direction games are going currently I may stop purchasing games in general, majority and being streamlined for a new audience and ignoring the old.  Have high hopes for Witcher 2 though!

[Lobato]

savagesparrow wrote...


I disagree. I =like= that the characters are kinda fixed into their roles, because it makes so much more sense in relation to their characters. In Origins, for instance, you could make Wynn a blood mage and she'd STILL rant about how evil blood mages are and all that jazz. Likewise, while it's nice from a gameplay perspective, it doesn't make any sense story-wise for Morrigan to be a healer. I like that all of the characters this time are fixed into roles that relate to their personality--Avaline's a guardian shield, Fenris is an avenging blade, Merrill's very much a blood mage, Anders is a healer, Varric 's his crossbow, etc. Like, in origins, I would be forced by the game to make Varric get rid of Bianca because inevitably something would come along that was just much better gear-wise. By making him keep it, you get all those awesome scenes with him chatting with his crossbow, taunting enemies about how "she's" going to taste their blood, etc.

And the classes were pretty unbalanced in Origins as well. I like that this game, you don't necessarily NEED to have a mage with you at all times, whereas Origins kinda forced you to have at =least= one, if not two mages with you at all times. Rogues got a super power-up, but not as ridiculous as Awakening. It was pretty cool.

just because morrigan is a **** dosent mean she cant have a spell that can cure, and fenris cant use a sword with a shield -.- thats just stupid, if i am a warrior i can use every weapon if dont that means i am not a warrior i am just an idiot.

Maybe the only thing you can actually be right its when the blood mage and reaper specialisations because those are very controversial, BUT IN THE STUPID DA2 THAT DOSENT MATTER YOU CAN JUST BE ANY OF THEM WITH NO CONCECUENCUES, YOU DONT NEED TO DO NOTHING TO GET THOSE SPECS... so hell it was dumbed.

Generally the game was very dumbed, the combat has no litle strategie, the rougues became robotic techno acrobats, the warriors come from final fantasy universe and the mages have a rifle staff and can shot betwen their legs (piu piu piu)... very fancy... very stupid.

[SystemAdmin]

None of the DA games have any replay value, or any real exploration.  There's no comparison between a few small sandbox towns like Denerim or Kirkwall, and the vast cities, mountains, caves, and sewers of Elder Scrolls Oblivion (go anywhere, do whatever).  Ever since Oblivion, I haven't enjoyed an immersive rpg.  Just the amount of "stuff" you can do in Oblivion, and the amount of time you can spend exploring, is jaw-dropping. Talk about replay value.

Bioware's version of a rpg is a linear, narrow-path experience where they focus more on companion character development at the expense of exploration and value, the essential elements that define an rpg.  DA2 is the ultimate anti-exploration, anti-immersive experience.  Sorry, but having the choice of which companion to sleep with, doesn't quite cover the basis of an rpg.  That's just decoration.  Also, having one small town and a few caves in Kirkwall, most of which look the same, makes for a boring run.

The combat system in DAO was at least clearly defined - it was a tactical, command-based, over-the-head / 3rd person system.  The overhead view was probably the most important angle for issuing orders (and I bet the most used by gamers).  At first sight, the DA2 combat system seemed to be taken half-way between tactical and action rpg, where both "halves" don't reallly make a working "whole", but simply two half-a,ssed halves.  However, as you progress you realize that the "action" feel is merely cosmetic and superficial, and not really changing the core system in a sifnificant way.  On harder difficulties it's actually almost entirely a tactical rpg, same as DAO (try playing on Hard or Nightmare without pausing, issuing orders, and not using zoomed out view... good luck).  Keeping the whole tactical system would have been totally fine, if they had kept its most essential element - the OVERHEAD VIEW.  That's probably my biggest frustration about the combat in DA2 - not being able to aim, or issue an order, because something is blocking the (narrow and limited) view, and you can't tell what's what in a big messy fight (especiialy if you're in a corner trying to look away, the camera is stuck between you and the walls).  Now you have Mr Mike Laid-low making excuses that they weren't able to add the overhead view, because the tall buildings were in the way. LOL.  That says alot about their competence.  "Yea, it was kinda difficult to do it, so we decided to leave a half-a,ssed combat system." 

So, the "tactical" part of the system is half-functional at best.  The fluent and responsive action which they added would've been a nice addition to a WORKING combat system.

There's almost no point mentioning the other issues with the game, like recycled dungeons with "LAZY" written all over them, too much useless junk food... uhm.... loot, non-rewarding fights, oversimplified gear and level system, non-responsive NPCs and environment.  Remember Oblivion, where you could provoke an entire town and get raided by the villagers?  That game is 4 years old!  This DA crap fades in comparison. 

Modifié par SystemAdmin, 30 mars 2011 - 08:30 .

[wojciec]

smjones23 wrote...

wojciec wrote...

And you know that you are the reason they release a half assed untested and dumbed down product because they know it's going to sell well.

...they made a game that was better than most games that hit the market and they did it in a very short amount of time. I don't think anyone would say that they didn't take any shortcuts. However, in my humble opinion, the improvements to combat, skill progression, story, and design make up for it. This game was not Bioware at their strongest, but this game is still worthy of a 9 in my view. Especially when compared with most of the crap on the market. I loved it, but I would say the first one wsa a bit better and Mass Effect 2 was better. I would say I think I enjoyed DAII more than Mass Effect 1 though.

My opinion still stands. A dumbed down, grossly oversimplified and hardly tested product is being greeted with thunderous applause. Bioware knows they can continue such a process because people will buy this crap ans ask for more. Moreover people love the idea ov cutting out more and more rpg elements form an rpg game in order to make it more action oriented.

[Alikante12]

When playing DA2 i felt Hawke was in the shadow of the hero of feraldan all the time, what legend?İ didnt get the feeling of champion or powerfull the whole game which bioware pointed that will be the feeling u get after playing DA2.One slays a dragon with a whole army at his back the other kills a templer with a lyrium enchanted sword at her hand(she jumps high).One slays the mother of darkspawn the other one a rockwraith(skull face)=no reason why we slay him aside from the fact that he guards that place.Up until act 3 i was having fun be it arishok or companion quests.But when i killed the arishok i felt like was that it?U slay a very grown qunari and u are the champion now...i was expecting slaying whole armys of qunari in large scale battles like the end of da1 origins.And what do we get same old story of mages and templars.DA 2 needed a better and more unknown story then the same old one.There should have been an involment from flemeth like she was leading the qunari or something.And the biggest dissapointment is how small the game is.Orzammar, Denerim, Brecilian Forest, Deep Roads each one of the then huge and satisfying.I dont know what where they thinking when they made the same pattern in every damn place.Denying acces with a stonewall was pissing me off so much.DA2 pales in comparison against the original bioware really failed this one. Excuse my bad English.The bigger the hope the bigger the dissapointment.

[smjones23]

wojciec wrote...

smjones23 wrote...

wojciec wrote...

And you know that you are the reason they release a half assed untested and dumbed down product because they know it's going to sell well.

...they made a game that was better than most games that hit the market and they did it in a very short amount of time. I don't think anyone would say that they didn't take any shortcuts. However, in my humble opinion, the improvements to combat, skill progression, story, and design make up for it. This game was not Bioware at their strongest, but this game is still worthy of a 9 in my view. Especially when compared with most of the crap on the market. I loved it, but I would say the first one wsa a bit better and Mass Effect 2 was better. I would say I think I enjoyed DAII more than Mass Effect 1 though.

My opinion still stands. A dumbed down, grossly oversimplified and hardly tested product is being greeted with thunderous applause. Bioware knows they can continue such a process because people will buy this crap ans ask for more. Moreover people love the idea ov cutting out more and more rpg elements form an rpg game in order to make it more action oriented.

1. I played DA:O and the gameplay is NEARLY IDENTICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Granted everything moves at a faster pace, no isometric view, and there is no way to damage your own party, it is essentially the same on the PC.

2. I love how you continue to call it dumbed down as if to imply that anyone who likes it is dumb. What has been dumbed down so much from the last game? It is slightly more linear, but that doesn't translate to dumbed down, but maybe it does for you.

3. Your assertion that it is being met with a thunderous applause is true...ON THE BIOWARE FORUMS!!!! Of course fans who get on here are more likely to just love the type of gameplay that bioware offers. If you look at reviews many have been giving the game between an 8 and a 9.

[wojciec]

smjones23 wrote...

wojciec wrote...

smjones23 wrote...

wojciec wrote...

And you know that you are the reason they release a half assed untested and dumbed down product because they know it's going to sell well.

...they made a game that was better than most games that hit the market and they did it in a very short amount of time. I don't think anyone would say that they didn't take any shortcuts. However, in my humble opinion, the improvements to combat, skill progression, story, and design make up for it. This game was not Bioware at their strongest, but this game is still worthy of a 9 in my view. Especially when compared with most of the crap on the market. I loved it, but I would say the first one wsa a bit better and Mass Effect 2 was better. I would say I think I enjoyed DAII more than Mass Effect 1 though.

My opinion still stands. A dumbed down, grossly oversimplified and hardly tested product is being greeted with thunderous applause. Bioware knows they can continue such a process because people will buy this crap ans ask for more. Moreover people love the idea ov cutting out more and more rpg elements form an rpg game in order to make it more action oriented.

1. I played DA:O and the gameplay is NEARLY IDENTICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Granted everything moves at a faster pace, no isometric view, and there is no way to damage your own party, it is essentially the same on the PC.

2. I love how you continue to call it dumbed down as if to imply that anyone who likes it is dumb. What has been dumbed down so much from the last game? It is slightly more linear, but that doesn't translate to dumbed down, but maybe it does for you.

3. Your assertion that it is being met with a thunderous applause is true...ON THE BIOWARE FORUMS!!!! Of course fans who get on here are more likely to just love the type of gameplay that bioware offers. If you look at reviews many have been giving the game between an 8 and a 9.

1. No it's not. It's simple and meant to get you through the story as fast as possible. The sidequests are boring and focused on one thing: You hero, mage/templar bad, go kill.
2. I never called anyone dumb, just because it's dumbed down does not make you dumb, you just like lower standards and don't pay attention when something is  stripped to a bare minimum of an rpg. And don't even start making Mass Effect references, those were never meant to be similar, and now presto, they are. And coming back to the dumbed down thing, just read any of the previous posts that people made, they describe it in great detail.
3. What difference does it make that this is the Bioware forum? People can express their opinions just the same, again take a look at how many people here hate this dumbed down mess of a game. And as far as other reviews are concerned all I can say is that I can think for myself and I do not like this product at all and the fancy graphics won't cover up what I don't like about it. Polish a turd, it's still a turd.

As a sidenote, stop using so many "!" I can read the text fine without a million of those. Only people who do it are kids raging over some dumbed down... oh wait.

Modifié par wojciec, 30 mars 2011 - 09:39 .

[DragonAgeFanatiiic]

The game is a rushed, sloppy, disaster. I for one, am absolutely gutted =(
Origins stands tall as possibly the greatest RPG in history,, and THIS is it's sequel ?!

-No return of the Hero of Ferelden - super disappointing. (not even a miserable cameo?)
-Horrible environments.. No area had quite as much character as say; the Bracillian Forest or Orzammar, not to mention that Kirkwall feels like a freaking ghost town.
-Characters,, oh boy.. the characters.. =\\
BioWare, if you have any intention of continuing the Dragon Age saga.. you would want to re-introduce characters from Origins. Seriously.. the absences of Alister, Liliana, Morrigan are greatly missed and the void is unfortunately replaced with horribly dry potatoes. Merril and Varric being the only exceptions, but quite barely.

The game lacks heart and character. I'm a BioWare fan boy through and through.. never could I imagine myself complaining about a BioWare game just a couple of years ago but I'm afraid you have given me every right to. This game.. is a disappointment, I dislike it so much I feel it taints the DA universe..

What i do like is the music and the focus on cinematic cut scenes and conversations. But I'm afraid that. is. all. =|


2/10

Summery: We wanted a true sequel involving characters worth caring about. The return of the warden could have been possible as demonstrated in Awakening - but we are FORCED to play a human (Hawk - some douche with forced sarcasm to compensate for the absence Alister)

[Windhawk]

I'll give credit where it is due - I like the skill trees. Unfortunately, everything else is awful.

I played every Bioware game since Baldur's Gate, and I loved them all. Rich story, colourful characters, that used to be Bioware's strengths. And then this game comes along. I have never seen such lack of imagination; the story is dull, the characters bland, the environments constantly repeating, and the writing uninspired. "The Tranquil Solution"? Please, that is tasteless at best. Plactically every battle is the same. Even the loot is distinctly unimaginative. I lost count of all the different "ornate rings" I found.

The premises of a 10 year story and acting out a story in the past were quite original, but the game doesn't do them justice in the least, and just ends up frustrating the player with empty promises of being able to change the story.

Something horrible must have happened at Bioware to produce this one, and if it kills the Dragon Age franchise I won't be surprised. Since Baldur's Gate, I never checked the reviews of a Bioware game before purchase. I'm sorry to say I need to do that from now on. My money was completely wasted here.

[TheRaj]

I am an old fan of BG I&II, NWN I&II. Also KOTOR I and II. I loved DA I. I even read the books before buying it, thats how excited I was by the DA franchise.

I don't like the direction Bioware have taken in DA II. Its a decent game, even a good one, but a let down by the standards of Bioware, and by the standards of the DA franchise.

Cons:
1. Over reuse of areas. THE BIG ONE

The fact that you are constantly traversing the same space makes for a total lack of immersion. While I can understand this if it is, IC, the same space, it completely kills the immersion to visit the exact same warehouse 20 times, the exact same cave 20 times, while trying to believe its a new place. I understand that it might make for better aesthetics, but the aesthetics were not what made BG and DA I great - it was the immersion. This is most apparent when you see a tunnel marked on your map and you happen to see it blocked by a convenient 'impassable door of rock'. I mean, seriously? Do some randomisation or some prebuilt arrangement of tiles or... something...! Or just spend some more time making artwork. I'd rather wait another year for the game and have something decent.

2. Cartoon Like Aesthetics/Combat

I'm aware this is a matter of personal taste, but I really don't like the change from a more conventional medieval aesthetic to a weird, angular space age aesthetic. I know that you want the characters to look 'awesome', but I prefer them to have at least a slight sense of realism. This includes Hawke moving across the battlefield in an instantaneous blur. I didn't really want to play a comic book. I appreciate that some people might like this, perhaps the younger audience, but its not for me.

3. The Inventory/Equipment system

I really don't like that the companions have different armour sets. While I appreciate that it allows Bioware more flexibility to animate the companions uniquely, the fact that there is a strange artificial imposition that you can't 'swap helmets' is just another immersion killer. It just feels like the designers said 'I am conciously making a gameplay sacrifice on the altar of aesthetics'. This is like (1).

4. Its all about the fighting

You can almost never, from what I've seen, talk/stealth/plan your way out of fighting. Granted, fighting has always been a key element of this genre, but this has gone way too far. The stealth and lockpicking is so clinical. I don't want to know how hard a lock is to pick! I want to be able to turn invisible and stealth past an encounter, or ambush an enemy. I remember in BG2 there was an encounter you can avoid by planting some dog meat as bait somewhere - what happened to that? A bit of intelligence? Also there are a lot of niggling immersion killers here. I don't like that 'junk' is obviously 'junk'. If they occassionally had some use (like the dogmeat), then at least I would feel there is some reason for its existence. Otherwise, why not just extrapolate - everytime you pick up anything, 'junk' is automatically converted into coin. Actually, lets not bother even picking it up. Just have a regular flow of coin coming in to represent all the junk you could have picked up and sold... its like being able to order potions from your home. Convenient but non-immersive.

5. Plot (some spoilers here)

Look at DA I. You had dramatic origin stories. You had the politics and intrigue of Orzammar. You had the complex villain(?) in Logain. You had skin in the game against Howe (for human nobles). You had the dramatic fall of Duncan and Cailan. You had real choices, like killing Eamon's son, using blood magic and killing his wife, or going the long way round and trying to save them all. You had a mission.

Here you start with a generic arcade romp through some hills killing darkspawn. There is some drama here, but you just don't have enough time to get attached to the characters. Then you are sent to a city where you feel you just have to run around collecting herbs and doing a few odd jobs. There are some pieces of background plot information to pick up as you go, but it gets lost in the tedium of going back and forth through the same old places.

Now the pros, such as they are...

1) I like the fully voiced conversations. I would prefer to have the full response in text when I choose it (so I feel like I've got more control over it). I also would prefer it to actually make more of a difference to the game.

2) I like the game balance in terms of difficulty. I think the bosses are a bit too hard and the peons are a bit too easy, but overally 'Hard' is 'Hard' and 'Nightmare' is 'Nightmare'. DA1 was a bit too easy.

[FrozenDawn]

Ok so I just finished the game as a Rogue on nightmare. I'll try to write a (relatively) objective
review.
During the playthrough I tried to do every quest and kill every foe - the final savegames say over 120 hours
played.
Beforehand I want to say that I am an RPG fan and have been playing RPGs since Fallout 1.
And while I liked DA:O for the different Origins and the multiple choices offered to the player, it's not one of my top 5 RPGs. That's mostly due to the weak endbattles and the mostly weak DLC's.

Originally I thought I was going to write a detailed rerview about all the things that disappointed me in this game, now after finishing the game I changed my opinion.
Most of the real unarguable flaws of this game seem to stem from one source only - the lack of enough time for
development.
So I'll cut this part a bit short and will just say that I will not preorder a bioware game again until they prove to
be worthy of trust again.

The Review

Let's try to be positive and start with the Aspects that I liked.

The Positive

Presentation - The presentation seems much more "fluid" the characters fit well into the surroundings, the
city is very impressive, Faces of the characters are very detailed
and can express emotion in dialogues quite well.Cutscenes are well done, much like in ME2. Character design is mostly quite nice. Overall a pretty good job.

Combat - The Fighting system is for me the strongest point of the game, the three character classes are
well done and each have a number of really good skills, even if most of them were known from DA:O.
Playing a rogue in combar was a fun experience, vanishing in a puff of smoke then reappearing behing an
enemy, stabbing him, then vanishing again to appear beside a companion to lend aid... great Fun.

The great plus here are the different fight styles that are even possible inside one class and
the fact that warriors now can really block off strategic points. Letting Warriors regular attack have a small area effect is a superb idea, even more so with 2 handed warriors who can sweep whole groups
of enemies.
Also I mostly liked the boss fights, or at least the fact that there were boss fights with different phases and tactics
required.
For me the game's fun factor mostly relies on its combat.

Story - the Story in itself is not bad. The setting in the free marches, a country of multiple mighty citystates is pretty
nice. Especially since the city of kirkwall has a dark past and this  combined with the conflict between mages and templars promises a lot. Combine this with a group of stranded Qunari and u have a nice mix.

Especially the mage templar conflict has a lot of potential and even some of the sidequests were nice too. Overall not bad. And Varric telling the story is a great idea.

Dialogue - the Dialogues together with the nice camera action and the voice acting in the cutscenes are the second great plus of the game. Very stylish, very professional. And a damn lot of nicely written dialogues.

The Negative

The Presentation - So well, there are some obvious things I did not like. The soundtrack for
example is pretty boring and totally unremarkable, especially if compared with the great stuff that supported ME2's atmosphere so well.
And thats the second point - the whole presentation drifts far too much into the direction of ME2.
It's like they said:
"let's make it funky and flashy so everybody likes it!"
This does not seem right to me, especially not for a game that claims to be DA:O's successor.
It's ok to take some of ME2 strong points and merge them with DA:O strengths, but sadly that is not what
happened.
We now have a presentation in ME2's style, yet with more flaws and less quality than in ME2 and we about
DA:O strengths... well I would say: RIP DA:O.

Also the elves totally look like goblins combined with those ugly noses from the navi (from
Avatar).
And Flemeth was just ridiculous. The Qunari can be argued to have improved, since Sten really was very unremarkable.

But the elves - I cannot forgive you what you did to the elves...

The Combat - The respawn system. Enemies which appear out of nowhere just everywhere on the
battlefield, and this in multiple waves, in EVERY Battle.

That's simply bad and lazy game design (to save money probably).
Just imagine how cool it would have been if every battle was different: mobs of different strength,
mostly without waves. But in special places with multiple waves and some enemies like spiders and skeletons coming out of the ground.
And cool dangerous enemies like assassins used only where it was
appropriate - not waiting behind every second street corner.
Of course that would have required the will and development time to set up every battle by hand...
And we can't have that can we? - Not with one year development time.

The Story - Well despite the nice setting, the overall execution is pretty sloppy - the whole thing
with accompanying a character through multiple years of his life doesn't seem to have many advantages either.

A lot of things in the plot, especially concerning the players choices seem illogical. And many things that
happen, do so very abruptly and in total disregard of the player's actions and thus feel forced and unnatural.

And finally to me it is an affront to not be able to change ANY of the major events, NO MATTER what you do,
in a game that claims kinship to DA:O.

Controls - the controls when in combat are very unresponsive, the restricted camera angels
make it near impossible to properly aim AOE spells and companions suddenly change targets when u use skills. Just bad and buggy. Especially bad when you consider that the combar is this game's strong point.

Miscellaneous

Items
- Junk... JUNK - I mean... JUNK.
Come On. Are you serious?
It's not worth anythin, its labeled junk so we know we wont be able to start a quest with it or use it for crafting.
Why exactly is it in the game?

Just go back to DA:O's system, which was  more
RPG like and at least gave some potential vaue to items found. And
did not totally destroy any chance of game world immersion, by
automatically labeling everything not usable for combat as junk.
VERY VERY VERY WEAK. Also not logical.
Try as I might I can not see any sense in this.

Armor - No companion Armor? Lazy.
No good reason to do that (other than saving money of course).
And no reason at all for a Game that calls itself DA2.
On a side note: no Armor in the game looked even remotely as cool as the sentinel armor from awakening. There are some good rogue armors though.

Companions - Talks with companions are now Quests. No more idle chatting with ur friends when u walk by,
no more progressing slowly on the long road to romance... just wait till the quest appears and tells you to go and hit on the girl/ guy.
LOL
Gameworld immersion? Atmosphere?
LAZY.
Also the strange rivalry system, as far as I can tell it does not really matter if you have maxed rivalry or maxed friendship, I may be wrong here though. I definately does not change your chance for romance though, and generelly romance is not dependant on any dialogue choices, as long you pick the ones MARKED as romance. Lame?

Locations - A city with five districts and three outdoor areas, plus a small number of infinitely reused dungeons and one or two unique areas? And then we have to walk that **** up and down again at the beginning of each
act?
That's really cheap.
There can be no excuse for that.
Just cut the games length in half if you cant produce enough content for God's sake.

Choices - Which Choices?
Most things you say inevetably lead to the same outcome, excepting a few times when you can chose to kill or spare some guys life.
And who was the crazy mad guy who thought it was a good idea to replace the free incredibly deep dialogue system of DA:O - which really had you thinking about how you maneuver through a dialogue - with the totally
dumb wheel from ME2?
I mean up is good, down is bad, left side is irrelevant and middle is either bad or good depending on the
dialogue.  And to add insult to injury, you fixed icons to the choices, so we absolutely can't miss to notice how to initiate the combat fastest and how to hit on the girl/guy!
We dont even need to know how to read!

PLUS we don't even have the Paragon/Renegade System from ME2 so it DOES NOT matter at all if you
take the good or bad choice and will have NO aftereffects (unless u talk to a companion then it will affect friendship).

Gameworld Immersion - Hard to feel like you really are in the world of Thedas with all those repetetive areas, the permanently respawning enemies at every street corner, the limited choices and the linear areals and
maps everywhere. Plus the combat is much too flashy to feel realistic. Could be just a little bit slower and without the exploding enemies.
If you want tough serious dark medieval action, then add in some occasional limbs being cut off. It's much
more effective and realistic than bodies exploding from a hit...

Verdict
If you had called this game Dragon Age: A new Beginning or Dragon Age: Rise of the Champion and made clear that it was NOT DA:O's successor AND fixed all the bugs or at least the grave ones, then I would give this game a 7 out of 10. With a little bit more effort on the details, less shameless recycling and less lazy gamedesign decisions and it might have easily been a 9.

As it stands I say 5 out of 10.
This is an action RPG, no more and no less - it does not have the feeling of immersion the freedom of
choice and the richness of different experiences which RPGs have - BUT it does have a great number of bugs which action RPGs should NOT have.

Don't get me wrong I liked ME 1-2 and I will buy ME3(no preorder though) if it free of bugs and well done, but Dragon Age was not meant to be Mass Effect in a fantasy setting. Dragon Age was all about the different character origins and multiple profound choices in a deeply immersive gameworld.
For me Dragon Age is dead. I will probably not buy Dragon Age 3 if this course continues.

My Advice would be to go back to Dragon Age:Origin's strengths, just keep the nice graphics and cutscenes,
the good combat system from DA2.

So long and thanks for all the fish!

Modifié par FrozenDawn, 30 mars 2011 - 04:21 .

[daymz]

@TheRaj
Good review mate.
I would have to disagree on the fully voiced conversations being a pro though. I was quite happy for my Hero, or my Hawke, to have my face and also my voice (as in the voice in my head as I read the text reply), I don't need to have it repeated again after I click it. Or even worse, for him to go off on a completely different tangent altogether and say something I never intended him to say.

[SoR82]

TheRaj wrote...

I am an old fan of BG I&II, NWN I&II. Also KOTOR I and II. I loved DA I. I even read the books before buying it, thats how excited I was by the DA franchise.

I don't like the direction Bioware have taken in DA II. Its a decent game, even a good one, but a let down by the standards of Bioware, and by the standards of the DA franchise.

Cons:
1. Over reuse of areas. THE BIG ONE

The fact that you are constantly traversing the same space makes for a total lack of immersion. While I can understand this if it is, IC, the same space, it completely kills the immersion to visit the exact same warehouse 20 times, the exact same cave 20 times, while trying to believe its a new place. I understand that it might make for better aesthetics, but the aesthetics were not what made BG and DA I great - it was the immersion. This is most apparent when you see a tunnel marked on your map and you happen to see it blocked by a convenient 'impassable door of rock'. I mean, seriously? Do some randomisation or some prebuilt arrangement of tiles or... something...! Or just spend some more time making artwork. I'd rather wait another year for the game and have something decent.

2. Cartoon Like Aesthetics/Combat

I'm aware this is a matter of personal taste, but I really don't like the change from a more conventional medieval aesthetic to a weird, angular space age aesthetic. I know that you want the characters to look 'awesome', but I prefer them to have at least a slight sense of realism. This includes Hawke moving across the battlefield in an instantaneous blur. I didn't really want to play a comic book. I appreciate that some people might like this, perhaps the younger audience, but its not for me.

3. The Inventory/Equipment system

I really don't like that the companions have different armour sets. While I appreciate that it allows Bioware more flexibility to animate the companions uniquely, the fact that there is a strange artificial imposition that you can't 'swap helmets' is just another immersion killer. It just feels like the designers said 'I am conciously making a gameplay sacrifice on the altar of aesthetics'. This is like (1).

4. Its all about the fighting

You can almost never, from what I've seen, talk/stealth/plan your way out of fighting. Granted, fighting has always been a key element of this genre, but this has gone way too far. The stealth and lockpicking is so clinical. I don't want to know how hard a lock is to pick! I want to be able to turn invisible and stealth past an encounter, or ambush an enemy. I remember in BG2 there was an encounter you can avoid by planting some dog meat as bait somewhere - what happened to that? A bit of intelligence? Also there are a lot of niggling immersion killers here. I don't like that 'junk' is obviously 'junk'. If they occassionally had some use (like the dogmeat), then at least I would feel there is some reason for its existence. Otherwise, why not just extrapolate - everytime you pick up anything, 'junk' is automatically converted into coin. Actually, lets not bother even picking it up. Just have a regular flow of coin coming in to represent all the junk you could have picked up and sold... its like being able to order potions from your home. Convenient but non-immersive.

5. Plot (some spoilers here)

Look at DA I. You had dramatic origin stories. You had the politics and intrigue of Orzammar. You had the complex villain(?) in Logain. You had skin in the game against Howe (for human nobles). You had the dramatic fall of Duncan and Cailan. You had real choices, like killing Eamon's son, using blood magic and killing his wife, or going the long way round and trying to save them all. You had a mission.

Here you start with a generic arcade romp through some hills killing darkspawn. There is some drama here, but you just don't have enough time to get attached to the characters. Then you are sent to a city where you feel you just have to run around collecting herbs and doing a few odd jobs. There are some pieces of background plot information to pick up as you go, but it gets lost in the tedium of going back and forth through the same old places.

Now the pros, such as they are...

1) I like the fully voiced conversations. I would prefer to have the full response in text when I choose it (so I feel like I've got more control over it). I also would prefer it to actually make more of a difference to the game.

2) I like the game balance in terms of difficulty. I think the bosses are a bit too hard and the peons are a bit too easy, but overally 'Hard' is 'Hard' and 'Nightmare' is 'Nightmare'. DA1 was a bit too easy.

You nailed pretty much everything for me mate... Ill just add something

Spikes are not coooool! The "champion of kirkwall" armour loks like he scavenged it from darkspawn.. call me crazy but I like my armour to be athestically pleasing not some but ugly collection of random metal spikes shoved willy nilly

[viennaconnect]

Dear Devs, Readers, Gamers

i have played the game for about 20 hours so far.

All i can add to the huge discussion about the disappointment  some might have experienced is that i cannot understand why Bioware has abandoned the aim of topping DA2's predecessor in terms of epicness, size, possibilities.

I understand that DA2 is a game with much potential and fun factor concerning the reduced development time.

But why not developing it to a state where there are many satisfied fans and newcomers to the universe of dragon age? Such strategical decisions, as to favour a system of DLCs and constantly delivered new content are highly understandable in terms of financially rewarding but also highly dangerous in losing the base of fans.

Maybe they don't need us fans of Origins and Awakening if they can have all them consoleros, the button smashing casuals?

To the game itself:

If you don't compare it to DA:O, it is a fun game for the casual action-loving soft-RPG-fan. If you don't care for logical flaws, bugs, immersion breakers, redesign and all the other things people have already mentioned in their criticism, then DA2 can be worth the money.

Regards,

a gamer

Modifié par viennaconnect, 30 mars 2011 - 07:04 .

[Lobato]

wojciec wrote...

My opinion still stands. A dumbed down,
grossly oversimplified and hardly tested product is being greeted with
thunderous applause. Bioware knows they can continue such a process
because people will buy this crap ans ask for more. Moreover people love
the idea ov cutting out more and more rpg elements form an rpg game in
order to make it more action oriented.

OH MY GOD LOOK AT THIS IDIOT! :

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

My only complaint thus far against this amazing game...

I Needz MOAR! More cities, more story (at least give me a decent freakin climax (nonsexual)), more DLC, just... MOAR plox!

Dragon Age for Dummies!

Modifié par Lobato, 30 mars 2011 - 10:02 .

[DragonAgeFanatiiic]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

My only complaint thus far against this amazing game...

I Needz MOAR! More cities, more story (at least give me a decent freakin climax (nonsexual)), more DLC, just... MOAR plox!

This.. BioWare.. is a result of your expanded audience.. hope your frickin happy.. I certainly am not.. 

Sten Disapproves  -1000000

[wojciec]

Lobato wrote...

wojciec wrote...

My opinion still stands. A dumbed down,
grossly oversimplified and hardly tested product is being greeted with
thunderous applause. Bioware knows they can continue such a process
because people will buy this crap ans ask for more. Moreover people love
the idea ov cutting out more and more rpg elements form an rpg game in
order to make it more action oriented.

OH MY GOD LOOK AT THIS IDIOT! :

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

My only complaint thus far against this amazing game...

I Needz MOAR! More cities, more story (at least give me a decent freakin climax (nonsexual)), more DLC, just... MOAR plox!

Dragon Age for Dummies!

Dialogue wheel options for Dragon Age 3:
-Yes
-No