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Your Dragon Age II Review *NO SPOILERS PLEASE*


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#2651
Lacan2

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Very enjoyable. Not Bioware's best, but not their worst. I liked it as much as Jade Empire, which is to say very much.

The good:
-Character designs
-Combat
-Voice casting
-Music
-Antagonists
-Moral dilemma
-Satisfaction of leveling up *looking at you Bethesda*
-10 year time span
-Voiced main character
-Dialogue wheel

The bad:
-Act 3 felt a bit rushed. *_____very vague spoiler_______* There is one particular incident with Merrill that receives no follow up talk like it never happened.
-A few too many fetch quests
-Mobs were repetitive
-Too high volume of inventory and too few unique items. Rather than placing 15 ornate rings or demonic rods in the game, I'd rather get just 1 or 2 unique items.

The ugly:
-Repeating maps
-Collecting useless inventory literally labeled "junk"

Overall: 8.8 out of 10
Very satisfying and very solid. Could have used more development time.

I was expecting something not enjoyable or satisfying after reading the reviews. Even though there are areas of criticism for me, the heavy criticism of the game overall is a bit misleading. DA2 is not bad like the firestorm leads you to believe.

Modifié par Lacan2, 08 avril 2011 - 04:37 .


#2652
Azinge

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daymz wrote...

Azinge wrote...

-The silent hero was not working in Orgins. So it's great that Hawke has a voice.


I just don't see a problem with the silent hero. You read the many responses and you choose one, why do you need to have your character repeat what you've already read? Or in Hawke's case, probably say somethin completely different. Which isn't a good thing!
I enjoyed KotOR and DAO immensely, both without lead character dialogue, and I don't think either experience was diminished without it or would've been bettered with it.

I too really enjoyed Orgins. The silent hero did not ruin my play at all. I just said it's nice that Hawke has a voice.

#2653
Wivvix

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I've completed DA2 twice, once as Mage and once as Warrior. My lengthy review is below.

Tedious, linear, repetitive level/environment/dungeon design.
The re-use of dungeons absolutely destroys all immersion. It is the main reason I really struggled with a second play through; the environments are just so boring.

You can be in chapter 1 or 3, and the dungeon will be exactly the same. You can be in totally different zones/areas on the "outside city of Kirkwall" map, and encounter the exact same dungeon. The dungeons themselves are boring. There are less than 10 items of interest in a given dungeon, and at most two routes of exploration, which invariably means one becomes redundant or becomes a dead end, occasionally even with nothing at the end.

The actual dungeons themselves are aesthetically bland. Walls are uniformally textured, almost all of the dungeons are very well lit, and generally they lack atmosphere, character, and defining features.

Outdoors environmental design suffers from the same issues as dungeon design. The re-use of the same environments throughout the chapters all but destroys any sense of progression. The environments are bland, lack atmosphere, and are almost always very well lit. As with dungeons, in a given outdoors environment there are at most, less than 10 interactive items of interest. Outdoors environments also suffer with regards to linearity of level design. At most there are 3 routes you can choose in a given outdoors environment, and all roads lead to Rome, apparently.  The environments almost completely lack signs of life apart from humanoids. You don't see or hear any other animals or even insects in the environment. Immersive...... definitely not. Exploration? Non-existent.

The city of Kirkwall is cold and poorly populated. A city which by all rights should be bustling with activity even at night, is all but dead save for encounters with vagabonds. The trip to the deep roads lacked any significantly dwarven architecture, one of the major atmospheric contributors to Origins. The Dalish camp offered very little to do at all, and really might as well have only consisted of two individuals.

There were no puzzles, no riddles, and no mini-games employed in the level design. It lacked variety and the kind of depth you'd expect from a Bioware title.


Minimal, homogenous enemies.
This is one of my other major complaints with DA2.
There were no Genlock's.
Hurlock's, Skeletons, Shades, Abominations and Dragons all look identical.
There were no new fauna/enemies indigenous to the Free Marches encountered, except for "varterral" and "pride demons".
The only variation in enemy strength was arbitrarily greater health, occasional elite units, and boss units. In most cases however, elite and boss units were merely scaled up versions of the other units with some unique abilities.

Characterisation, companions and story.
Most of the characters in DA2 lack polish. Most are cookie cutter archetypes; rival sibling Carver, passive and reserved Bethany, smarmy and occasionally witty Varric, overly zealous anders, s-l-u-t-t-y mc-s-l-u-t isabela, prudish butch aveline and the socially awkward Merrill. None of the characters are quirky or interesting, they merely try very hard to represent a wide audience. There is little or no intrigue, no real development of character, hardly even much real exploration of character, from beginning to end.

I won't even broach the issue of romances. They were so comprehensively poor, they genuinely appear to have been a complete afterthought.

The story is sadly much the same. The story is merely an interwoven series of loosely or altogether unrelated events, which limp along sluggishly in anticipation of core storyline development, which actually only entails about 20% of the story. The framed narrative is employed desperately to try and give connectedness to the disjointed combobulation of quests, but ultimately is used far too predictably and limitedly to achieve this. The short scenes of framed narrative between Varric and his host all but gloss over the details of almost an entire chapter in mere seconds, before quickly settling back into another tedious round of grinding through the same 5 maps and dungeons again for, purportedly, different reasons.

Combat, animations, skills, attributes and itemisation.
Combat in DA2 is a mixed bag. On the one hand, certain spell effects have been improved and cross-class combo's make for more intricate strategies. I would however like to see the return of combinable spell effects for mages as in Dragon Age Origins. The pace of combat in DA2 is fine. The issue is really with the animations. The warrior and rogue animations, at least for some abilities are, sadly, laughable. I'm referring to scythe and rush. Combat is otherwise very repetitive however, and the wave mechanics, dropping enemies out of the sky onto the field...... really? The only way this could have been less immersive, is if they warped in sci-fi style, or materialised out of thin air. oh wait....... The difficulty of combat seems to have been dialed back also, making it virtually mandatory to play on Hard to encounter any sort of challenge.

At first glance the skills available in DA2 seem extensive and varied. Unfortunately this proves to be false as you progress half way through the game. Certainly as a mage, it is inevitable that one will invest in multiple skill trees, which unfortunately means having to diversify into two types of spell damage, and thereby reducing the efficacy in one spec or the other by virtue of limited itemisation. The depth, or rather lack thereof, of skill trees, is therein prohibitive to developing a character sub-class, which greatly erodes the replayability of a given class.

Derived statistics from attributes in DA2 left me scratching my head somewhat. A weapon and shield warrior must invest in Cunning in order to improve their defense stat. In my opinion, Dexterity is a more appropriate attribute to tie defense or armor to, as the ability to manouvre quickly could make the difference between a blow received to the head, or a blow received square on a shield. Whereas Cunning makes more sense as an attribute that enables one to identify a weak point on enemy armor, and thus attack that point, dealing more damage.

Itemisation was a major issue for me in DA2. Gear was homogenous, with very little diversity of stats or derivatives. The limitations of party itemisation significantly reduced the player's ability to influence derived statistics, damage spec customisation, and the appearance of companions. Also disappointing was the lack of variety and exotic weapons.

Dialogue, morality, friends & rivals, and the conversation wheel.
I'm impartial to a voiced protagonist. Personally I prefer the main character is not voiced, as this character can then assume whatever voice I give them, which invariably is more attuned to my perception of the character than a voice actor interpreting script.
I otherwise can't complain about dialogue per se.

Morality in DA2 is shambolic. Far too often it is born out of a dialogue option, somewhat confused with the horrible conversation wheel, further still by ambiguous paraphrasing, and then turned into a wedge issue between two or more companions competing to be your "friend" or "rival". /golfclap
Where is the option to tell all 3 of your party companions to ****** off? No really.....

The problem with morality, friends and rivals, is in so much that rivals and friends tend not to party or group together, certainly not in the circumstances presented in this particular tale. This leads to the abomination of morality which presents in DA2, which is really actually the moral consequence of actions on relationships, rather than actually being accountable for moral decisions. One way or another, in DA2 the companions will still either be a friend or rival, and that's just not how morality or relationships work. Not even close.

The conversation wheel really has no place in a fantasy RPG. I hope if Bioware resolves only 1 other thing apart from the horrendous re-use of maps in this game, it's that they get rid of the conversation wheel from Dragon Age. I literally lost count of the number of times I chose a paraphrased option based on what it said, rather than the icon, and heard the protagonist deliver a line completely at odds with the tone of the paraphrasing. I don't think i've ever quick-loaded more times in a single game play-through in my entire life, and it could have so easily been avoided.

The other noticeably lacking aspect of dialogue in DA2 was the often dark, dry, mature, double-entendre rich, witty banter that ensued from companion interaction, as in Dragon Age Origins. In stead it has been replaced with cheap jabs between two companions, very occasionally humourous and far short of witty, and sometimes of questionable intent. No, even frolicking elves can't redeem a conversation between Varric and Isabela.

Summary.
DA2 had the potential to be a good game, even a great one. Unfortunately it missed the mark by a lot. It wasn't due to sequel expectations, but a significant drop in the quality of product. I'm certain even Bioware is not so far removed from reality, as to have been aware they were not releasing an AAA sequel to Dragon Age Origins. It's unfortunate that they did, because they could have extended the release cycle by 2-3 years and actually delivered a quality product.

I gave Dragon Age Origins 9.4/10
I gave Dragon Age Awakening 8.8/10
I give Dragon Age 2 7.5/10

Modifié par Wivvix, 08 avril 2011 - 07:22 .


#2654
daymz

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@ Wivvix

Great review, I think you're a bit generous with your score tho.

#2655
wojciec

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daymz wrote...

@ Wivvix

Great review, I think you're a bit generous with your score tho.


I agree, you list far too many negatives for a 7.5. The review makes for a good reading though.

Modifié par wojciec, 08 avril 2011 - 07:39 .


#2656
am_victory

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I'm really enjoying Dragon Age 2. I'm almost finished with my second
play-through right now, and that's a first for me. The story is
compelling, the characters have excellent voice-acting, and I'm honestly
just having a blast with it.



That said, the community seems pretty polarized about it. You have
one camp saying the love it, the other side is saying it's the worst
game ever. Obviously, I don't agree with the "worst ever" group.
That's not to say that it's without faults, it's not; but a lot of the
faults are subjective.



Here are the complaints I've seen / heard most frequently, along with my take on each:



* Recycled areas - this is the most irritating thing in the whole
game for me. I actually wouldn't mind if the mini-map didn't show
non-functional areas of a cave or whatever, but it does, so you're left
wondering if you've explored everything or not. I'm really hoping that
in the next game they either have more original maps or at least change
the mini-map to reflect which areas are actually being used.



* Can't control companion armor - I actually like this aspect. It
lets me play the game instead of having to micromanage the equipment of
seven people in addition to Hawke (the main character). Eight, if you
count his sibling. I guess I'm not a huge number cruncher, but I really
find nothing fun about digging through piles of armor and trinkets like
I'm at a consignment shop, then comparing each piece six ways to Sunday
to make sure this one isn't incrementally better than that one. *yawn*



* The "junk" category of inventory - ie. things you can't use so
must sell - Apparently the gripe is that they should just have armor
drop that's for your class since you can't use armor on any other
characters. This doesn't bother me at all. I've yet to play an RPG that
didn't have you picking up tons of useless crap, whether it's diamond
fragments in DA2 or blue widgets in another game.



* Combat - I enjoy the combat. The "wave" formula gets a bit
tedious, but overall I still like it. Lots of people don't, though, so
it's definitely a YMMV thing. I'd recommend downloading the demo - it
gives you a good feel for how the combat plays throughout the game.  The waves would be more palatable to me if they weren't employed with just about every single encounter.


* Side quests - Some people don't like the fact that you
occasionally find some gizmo and automatically get a quest that says Joe
Bloe lost said gizmo, please take it back to him. You do, and you get
paid. I don't have a problem with this. Why must everything have an
in-depth dialogue / story to go with it? Sure, it takes a bit of
Suspension of Disbelief to go with the idea that you just magically know
ol' Joe lost his favorite beer mug, but honestly... it's a SIDE QUEST.
I'm not losing sleep over a side quest. (Quests are categorized in DA2 -
Main Plot, Secondary, Companion and Side quests - side quests are at
the bottom of the hierarchy, and every other quest level has full story
and voice acting to go with it.).



* Kirkwall, the city - again, I like it. Some people think it's too
small, or you should be able to explore the Free Marches. Not a
problem for me. The architecture and history are great - the first
time you walk into the gallows and see the gigantic statues it's just
breath-taking. I've also seen people gripe that the city is too static
over the years. That really doesn't bother me, either, even though the
critics have a point with that. As a for instance, whenever you visit
the Viscount's Keep there's a guy that says "I've been here all day."
Even ten years later. Personally, I kind of go with the idea that it's a
different guy. I mean, heck, I hear the same thing every time I go to
the DMV ;-)



* Bugs - Personally, I only encountered one. There's a secondary
quest in Act 3 which is broken. Irritating, but not game-breaking.
Other people have experienced glitches, but since I haven't, I can't
comment to that.

Edited:  I originally wrote this after my first play.  During this game, I've stumbled across a few other issues.  Still nothing game-breaking, but I'm hoping the issues get fixed in the upcoming patch.  Specifically, I've also come across the gravitic ring bug and the Skating Danger or whatever it's called quest bug.


A lot of people are RAGING because they say this game is not as good
as Origins. I think it's a matter of taste. For Origins I did one full
play-through, and then did a partial play-through with each of the other
origin stories. Once I got a character to Lothering, though, I'd lose
interest. I also played Awakenings (once). I purchased the Witch Hunt
DLC but just couldn't muster up the enthusiasm to play it. DA2, on the
other hand - as I said, I've completed one play-through, I'm at Act III
with my second play-through, and I have plans to do a third play-through
and possibly a fourth. Based on that, I think DA2 is the better game -
I'm certainly enjoying it more.



Also of interest, for those who have played Origins: somewhat
interestingly, most of the people who had similar experiences to mine
with Origins (ie. played it once and that was it) are saying they love
DA2. Those who adored Origins and did multiple play-throughs in the
game are more dissatisfied. Not sure if this helps you make a decision,
but hopefully it will.



Final score:  9 / 10

#2657
Aaleel

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Dragon Age 2 Review

Setting and Enviornments

I play these type of RPGs for immersion and this category is where the game let me down the most and just completely turned me off.  The recycled areas were just done to a ridiculous extreme, which is made worse by the fact that you're already running around the same city most of the game.  So to see the same areas when you leave just ruins the game experience completely.

Kirkwall: The game takes place over years, but the city never changes one stitch, even when damage was done to it.  It was not interactive, you never became part of the city and did things that you could look at in Act 1 that grew into Act 3.  Not enough people in the city either.  Aside from Varric telling you years had passed you wouldn't know it from anything in the actual game.

Combat

I liked the dash feature to close ground and engage, the side stepping when you got near enemies in Origins was one of my few complaints with the game.  But the enemy wave system gets tedious and boring after a while, no rhyme nor reason to it, and enemies just literally falling out the sky was bad.  Also the exploding bodies or legs still standing by themselves while the rest of the body was gone just seemed cheesy and cartoonish to me.

Customization

I didn't like the 2 stat system for armor it pretty much funneled you down a path you had to build your characters.  I also would have preferred to equip my companions, as well as them having access to specializations like in Origins. 

Missions & Quests

The quests where you got items in loot and it just flagged a quest, then you just follow a marker back to NPC and get money just seemed lazy to me.  That is not a quest, a quest is where you get a task and go do it.  Not enter into the process after the task is already done, then just collect the reward.  But the whole questing thing just wore on me since i had to keep going to the exact same areas over and over and over again.

As far as storyline missions, I prefer longer missions in well laid out areas, but I can do mulitple shorter quests as well, the difference is not that big for me.

Character Choices

Just let me know the rules ahead of time.  If you want to make a linear game, just do it and don't even give me a choice.  I would much prefer to have a choice, but I can live with a linear game if done well.  But don't give me choices A & B, and then have both A & B lead to the same outcome.

Story

I didn't think the game was paced well, or had any kind of flow.  Since they're no spoilers I can't really go into detail, but the 3rd Act just felt rushed, when it should have been the most fleshed out of all the acts.

Overall

I managed one playthrough of this game but the lack of immersion in the city as well as the recycled areas just killed any motivation I had to play it again.  Everything about Origins from the UI, the codex notes on the pages, the map, the art desgin which was darker and grittier.  It all immersed you into the game, whereas this game did not in any way.

The game failed to accomplish what it intended as far as telling a story over a decade because nothing about the city, the main character growth, the companions growth, or anything else gave the impression the game took place over a period of years.

I was disappointed in this game, I thought it felt rushed, and it feels like the time wasn't taken to produce the best quality product.  Also I'll never understand why any company would make such drastic changes to something that was widely successful.  You take those steps when something is unsuccessful, and not accepted.

Overall I give this game 5.5/10

Modifié par Aaleel, 08 avril 2011 - 11:13 .


#2658
corkey sweet

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over all disappointing game.
Good

+ voiced character
+ graphics are a small step up

Bad
- dumbed down combat
- dumbed down customization
- unorganized mess of a story
- recycled dungens and maps
- game takes place mostly (90%) in one place
as i said before, overall disappointing. Origins was way better
-

#2659
bigraym0nd2

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I know lots of whinning must have been made about DA:2 already but i insist on adding my critic too... Personnally, the second i heard about DA:O like 3-4 years ago, i was thrilled hoping it would be as epic as Baldur's Gates, so i bought it as soon as it came out and i have to say its one of the best role-playing game ive played (and ive played a looooot of em :)...

So goes without saying i bought DA:2 without even having to wonder if it would be good or not. Im even lucky enough to find one of the rare signature edition. Im rushing home, install it, make a character (whatever class, im thinking ill just play em all anyway in the 5 years coming) then start. Whoa !! Lots of changes... this feels less epic but hell, lets go and kill kill kill, this is faster, kinda cool... hmmm wheres that feeling ? is it the absence of music ? the ambiance isnt quite there, only ramblings and people shouting around... anyway, lets get through this...

nice! new skills and equip system, feels great to upgrade the skills you like to use the most really!! Ok, hmmm have not i been to this dungeon already ?! anyway, cant wait til the map develops... aight lets go see the dwarf with my 50 coins. Wow nice boss there and quite challenging, so much i thought this was a fight i had to lose to keep the story going... lets peek at a walkthrough for hints, and there i am stumbling upon massive dislike comments about the game...

well, thats it, putting this DVD back into its box and putting back my DA:O dvd back in my drive... anyway, seems like im not the only one, this is really garbage money maker software... anyway, wheres the epicness ? dont bother releasing games like that... really... take 2-3 more years to develop it or something then sell it at a higher price if you really need money THAT bad...

#2660
bigraym0nd2

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i just wanna add one thing : why couldnt DA:2 be a sequel ? Upload your DA:O character, get more available skills/spells, more challenging opponents, deeper characters development, etc. I really wouldnt have minded the same exact engine really... DA:2 has just NOTHING to do with DA:O...

So to anyone who loved DA:O, just dont expect to love the ''sequel'', because its not what it is...

#2661
Benevolent

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First impresions was yawn yet another console game passed off as being made for pc... well at least they removed the press X for this and O for that etc... well further along i kinda got used to the feel of the new fighting system. its okay but i do miss the overview that u had in DAO.

1: if u make a game with 3 zones excluding the city then for gods sake make them huge... talking about the coast, the mountain and the mine.... they were small and uninteresting and u had to go there 100 times with no change at all to the scenery....

2: inside zones like caves and wharehouses... common again u made 1 cave with 3 doors shifitng around to give the illusion of being a new dungeon uncesesfull i might add.... 2 wharehouses with 2-3 rooms each.... again no change to the scenery...

3: argh how do i do this with no spoilers... ahh Sidequest / Secondary quest that had a huge potential to have an impact on ur economy and social standing in the city ended out in talk and nothing more...

4: conversation choices... i mean u have the option to respond "there there its gonna be allright" then it gets translated to speech and it comes out something like this "i hate u and i hope u die" then u sit there and think what the hell thats not what i said.... then u get trapped in a fight u dident mean to start... and im sorry but saving before evry conversation is not my idear of fun.

5: crafting system ahh or lack of same... okay good idear to bring in outside crafters but what about ur own set of skills... i can make poisens and my friend can make traps for free if we have the mats... if we cant make runes then a merchant crafter can do it for me for a prize... and that brings me to the resources... sorry but that just dont make sence as it is... argh its hard not telling spoilers :S over the coarse of the game can u expect that the flower u found as a lvl 1 grows the same place as lvl 20 ??? just because u found it first...cause i never seen a game where a flower had a sign that set hands off i was here first...

in my humble opinion DA2 had to many quest that had no impact on the story of the main char at all and it just got to a point where u got fed up doing theese silly quest in yet another area u have seen 50 times before...  so basically if u removed half the quest from the game u would have a perfect DLC for DAO but as a stand alone game u should really be ashamed of urselfs...

now if u went out next week and said that DA2 is only a proluge for the real DA2 i would be a happy dolphin

#2662
Mysterygent

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Wivvix wrote...

I've completed DA2 twice, once as Mage and once as Warrior. My lengthy review is below.

Tedious, linear, repetitive level/environment/dungeon design.
The re-use of dungeons absolutely destroys all immersion. It is the main reason I really struggled with a second play through; the environments are just so boring.

You can be in chapter 1 or 3, and the dungeon will be exactly the same. You can be in totally different zones/areas on the "outside city of Kirkwall" map, and encounter the exact same dungeon. The dungeons themselves are boring. There are less than 10 items of interest in a given dungeon, and at most two routes of exploration, which invariably means one becomes redundant or becomes a dead end, occasionally even with nothing at the end.

The actual dungeons themselves are aesthetically bland. Walls are uniformally textured, almost all of the dungeons are very well lit, and generally they lack atmosphere, character, and defining features.

Outdoors environmental design suffers from the same issues as dungeon design. The re-use of the same environments throughout the chapters all but destroys any sense of progression. The environments are bland, lack atmosphere, and are almost always very well lit. As with dungeons, in a given outdoors environment there are at most, less than 10 interactive items of interest. Outdoors environments also suffer with regards to linearity of level design. At most there are 3 routes you can choose in a given outdoors environment, and all roads lead to Rome, apparently.  The environments almost completely lack signs of life apart from humanoids. You don't see or hear any other animals or even insects in the environment. Immersive...... definitely not. Exploration? Non-existent.

The city of Kirkwall is cold and poorly populated. A city which by all rights should be bustling with activity even at night, is all but dead save for encounters with vagabonds. The trip to the deep roads lacked any significantly dwarven architecture, one of the major atmospheric contributors to Origins. The Dalish camp offered very little to do at all, and really might as well have only consisted of two individuals.

There were no puzzles, no riddles, and no mini-games employed in the level design. It lacked variety and the kind of depth you'd expect from a Bioware title.


Minimal, homogenous enemies.
This is one of my other major complaints with DA2.
There were no Genlock's.
Hurlock's, Skeletons, Shades, Abominations and Dragons all look identical.
There were no new fauna/enemies indigenous to the Free Marches encountered, except for "varterral" and "pride demons".
The only variation in enemy strength was arbitrarily greater health, occasional elite units, and boss units. In most cases however, elite and boss units were merely scaled up versions of the other units with some unique abilities.

Characterisation, companions and story.
Most of the characters in DA2 lack polish. Most are cookie cutter archetypes; rival sibling Carver, passive and reserved Bethany, smarmy and occasionally witty Varric, overly zealous anders, s-l-u-t-t-y mc-s-l-u-t isabela, prudish butch aveline and the socially awkward Merrill. None of the characters are quirky or interesting, they merely try very hard to represent a wide audience. There is little or no intrigue, no real development of character, hardly even much real exploration of character, from beginning to end.

I won't even broach the issue of romances. They were so comprehensively poor, they genuinely appear to have been a complete afterthought.

The story is sadly much the same. The story is merely an interwoven series of loosely or altogether unrelated events, which limp along sluggishly in anticipation of core storyline development, which actually only entails about 20% of the story. The framed narrative is employed desperately to try and give connectedness to the disjointed combobulation of quests, but ultimately is used far too predictably and limitedly to achieve this. The short scenes of framed narrative between Varric and his host all but gloss over the details of almost an entire chapter in mere seconds, before quickly settling back into another tedious round of grinding through the same 5 maps and dungeons again for, purportedly, different reasons.

Combat, animations, skills, attributes and itemisation.
Combat in DA2 is a mixed bag. On the one hand, certain spell effects have been improved and cross-class combo's make for more intricate strategies. I would however like to see the return of combinable spell effects for mages as in Dragon Age Origins. The pace of combat in DA2 is fine. The issue is really with the animations. The warrior and rogue animations, at least for some abilities are, sadly, laughable. I'm referring to scythe and rush. Combat is otherwise very repetitive however, and the wave mechanics, dropping enemies out of the sky onto the field...... really? The only way this could have been less immersive, is if they warped in sci-fi style, or materialised out of thin air. oh wait....... The difficulty of combat seems to have been dialed back also, making it virtually mandatory to play on Hard to encounter any sort of challenge.

At first glance the skills available in DA2 seem extensive and varied. Unfortunately this proves to be false as you progress half way through the game. Certainly as a mage, it is inevitable that one will invest in multiple skill trees, which unfortunately means having to diversify into two types of spell damage, and thereby reducing the efficacy in one spec or the other by virtue of limited itemisation. The depth, or rather lack thereof, of skill trees, is therein prohibitive to developing a character sub-class, which greatly erodes the replayability of a given class.

Derived statistics from attributes in DA2 left me scratching my head somewhat. A weapon and shield warrior must invest in Cunning in order to improve their defense stat. In my opinion, Dexterity is a more appropriate attribute to tie defense or armor to, as the ability to manouvre quickly could make the difference between a blow received to the head, or a blow received square on a shield. Whereas Cunning makes more sense as an attribute that enables one to identify a weak point on enemy armor, and thus attack that point, dealing more damage.

Itemisation was a major issue for me in DA2. Gear was homogenous, with very little diversity of stats or derivatives. The limitations of party itemisation significantly reduced the player's ability to influence derived statistics, damage spec customisation, and the appearance of companions. Also disappointing was the lack of variety and exotic weapons.

Dialogue, morality, friends & rivals, and the conversation wheel.
I'm impartial to a voiced protagonist. Personally I prefer the main character is not voiced, as this character can then assume whatever voice I give them, which invariably is more attuned to my perception of the character than a voice actor interpreting script.
I otherwise can't complain about dialogue per se.

Morality in DA2 is shambolic. Far too often it is born out of a dialogue option, somewhat confused with the horrible conversation wheel, further still by ambiguous paraphrasing, and then turned into a wedge issue between two or more companions competing to be your "friend" or "rival". /golfclap
Where is the option to tell all 3 of your party companions to ****** off? No really.....

The problem with morality, friends and rivals, is in so much that rivals and friends tend not to party or group together, certainly not in the circumstances presented in this particular tale. This leads to the abomination of morality which presents in DA2, which is really actually the moral consequence of actions on relationships, rather than actually being accountable for moral decisions. One way or another, in DA2 the companions will still either be a friend or rival, and that's just not how morality or relationships work. Not even close.

The conversation wheel really has no place in a fantasy RPG. I hope if Bioware resolves only 1 other thing apart from the horrendous re-use of maps in this game, it's that they get rid of the conversation wheel from Dragon Age. I literally lost count of the number of times I chose a paraphrased option based on what it said, rather than the icon, and heard the protagonist deliver a line completely at odds with the tone of the paraphrasing. I don't think i've ever quick-loaded more times in a single game play-through in my entire life, and it could have so easily been avoided.

The other noticeably lacking aspect of dialogue in DA2 was the often dark, dry, mature, double-entendre rich, witty banter that ensued from companion interaction, as in Dragon Age Origins. In stead it has been replaced with cheap jabs between two companions, very occasionally humourous and far short of witty, and sometimes of questionable intent. No, even frolicking elves can't redeem a conversation between Varric and Isabela.

Summary.
DA2 had the potential to be a good game, even a great one. Unfortunately it missed the mark by a lot. It wasn't due to sequel expectations, but a significant drop in the quality of product. I'm certain even Bioware is not so far removed from reality, as to have been aware they were not releasing an AAA sequel to Dragon Age Origins. It's unfortunate that they did, because they could have extended the release cycle by 2-3 years and actually delivered a quality product.

I gave Dragon Age Origins 9.4/10
I gave Dragon Age Awakening 8.8/10
I give Dragon Age 2 7.5/10


Very well said. Agree 100%. But would add that the combat system moves too fast and too violent for my taste.  Do we need exploding body parts?  The characters are moving too fast during combat that I have a hard time seeing where everyone is.

#2663
DrWoo

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Here's my review.

-Game is extremely linear.
- Un-customizable companions
-Everyone is bisexual not because Bioware wanted to profess their political views but because they were too lazy to -make individual characters have their own orientation. Ending is a cop out mess of nonsense.
-They promised us 10 years of timeline, we got 7 (did anybody say DLCs?).
-ME2 dialogue wheel replaced the mutiple choices, hard to know what exactly your character is going to say when you pick an answer.
-Inventory is terribad, little paper icons replaced the detailed icons of DA:O.
-Can't choose your race.
-Gotta mash the attack button to attack and wait for abilities to get off cooldown to do anything else.
-Enemies spawn out of nowhere.
-Reused environments...God if I see that cave one more time I'm gonna flinch.
-Choices have VERY little consequences.
+Hawke can have a cool beard.
+Eenemies get dismembered by arrows!
+The Arishok is pretty damn cool, I want him on my team. So is Varric but you can play him.
+Mages can smack people with their staff.
+Loved the voice acting for the most part,
+Got ME2 for free which is a much better game.

#2664
Mysterygent

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You can read a FANTASTIC review of DA2 below:

http://www.escapistm...Scandal-UPDATED



#2665
Rudger47

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DA2 ended up a being a disappointment to me.  Not terrible, but definitely a step backwards in many areas.  This is long winded and more for the developers to read (yeah, probably not going to happen).  I will put a TLDR version at the bottom, so you can skip to that if you don't want to fall asleep reading this crud.  So anyway, just going to list some of my likes and dislikes on DA2:

Likes:

1. Companions unique looks and skill trees:
  I like the idea behind giving companions unique outfits and skill trees to set them apart from each other.  It is something that should be expanded upon, however.  For the outfits, there either needs to be multiple outfits that you can switch between or entire sets of gear specifically made for each character.  If they refuse to change the direction they are going with this, at the very least they should allow you to equip the various armors you find during the game on your companions, even if their appearance doesn't change.

2.  Graphics (in certain aspects of the game):  So I like the look of some of the armor that you can get.  Played as a warrior during my play through, and I thought some of the gear was nice looking, but not a lot of variety.  The facial expressions during dialogue is also an improvement over DAO, but still not even in the same league as ME2.

3.  Voiced main character:
  It is nice in some ways to have a voiced character.  Now I have no problems with silent characters.  I grew up playing JRPGs with no voice acting, so silent main characters can be great as well.  The only reason I think voiced main characters can be a good thing is because these games are becoming so damn cutscene based nowadays.  Its just weird to have all these animated cutscenes with NPCs fully voiced meanwhile your character stands there blank faced staring back.  It just looks silly, but its not that big of a deal.  Either style can work.

4.  Varric:  Probably my favorite companion character in this game.  The voice actor did great and Varric ended up being the only companion that didn't annoy me at one point or another.  The others...well...can Merrill really be THAT dumb and naive?  The Arishok was the man, as well...but alas, we couldn't side with him to take over Kirkwall...shucks! 

5.  Cross class combos:  The ones in this game were pretty cool.  It would be nice if some of the companion specific abilities utilized this more.

Dislikes:

1.  Lack of companion customization:  Already explained above, need some sort of way to customize companions.  Its annoying because the characters don't change their appearance during their "ten year" journey and also because their stats become gimped because of the lack of gear upgrades.

2.  Dialogue wheel:  I prefer seeing what my character is going to say before I select an option.  I think it would be nice if you added a button (like maybe 'tab' on PCs and the trigger buttons on consoles) that when held down it would show you what your character is actually going to say.  This way if someone doesn't care, they don't need to use the option, but its there for those of us who prefer the more old school way of dialogue.

Also concerning the wheel, I think there needs to be more responses than 'Good, funny, mean'.  It just seems so limited.  I almost wish they would go back to D20 style skill points and have options like 'Knowledge: Chantry' or 'Knowledge: Fade' and other more obvious ones like intimidate, bluff, spot, etc. These would offer a whole slew of new dialogue options.  That way in different play throughs, you would have brand new options for dialogue if you focused your character in different areas.

3.  Look of the UI:  I still don't understand the need to revamp the looks of the UI from Origins.  It had a certain old school fantasy vibe about it, with the weathered page look.  Now it is replaced with a bland black background and ability symbols that look like stop signs and yield signs...not great, in my opinion.  Does it get the job done?  Yes.  Does it look completely out of place in a fantasy setting?  Yes!

4.  Deathblows:  In origins you had awesome looking fatality like animations.  I guess people complained about them and so they were removed and replaced with this body explosion nonsense.  I personally feel like they should bring back deathblows to how they were, but add a nice buff whenever one of your teammates gets one off (like a team wide stamina/mana regen).  You can even link it to the class skills, like give Reaver a 100% damage bonus for a few seconds following a deathblow (just throwing examples out there).

Also, if a enemy is about to finish off your last remaining character, they should also have the ability for deathblows.  This would allow you guys to create some awesome looking kills with your Ogres/dragons and other monsters.  Like if Anders was the last party member alive and an Ogre gets the final blow, he should have the chance to get some crazy looking kill move (I would be cheering him on, as Anders annoys the hell out of me).  Magic and Archery fatalities should be added as well.  If you need inspiration, check out Age of Conan.  The game might do a lot of things wrong, but fatalities aren't one of them.

5.  Enemies and Combat:  The wave mechanic was definitely annoying.  Would rather have less, but stronger enemies.  And by stronger I don't mean more health.  Some of the health levels on these enemies are ridiculous.  Why do almost all rogue enemies take damage like they are in full plate?  It doesn't necissarily make things difficult, just tedious and annoying.  

Also, enemy variety is very limited.  Between the lack of new enemies to fight and that they all look identicle to one another.  Not sure why this was changed from Origins where a lot of the Darkspawn had different gear on.  

Another thing, why did you get rid of the grapple abilities of Ogres and Mabari?  Was it because it was considered cheap that once your character is grabbed a teammate had to help you out?  Personally, I liked it and think it shouldn't have been taken out.  I could see it being tweaked to make it easier to break out of, though.

6.  Graphics and Animation:  It just seems weird that this is the same company that makes the Mass Effect series.  Characters and environments are nowhere near as detailed as ME.  Even the simple walk/turn animations of ME are ages beyond this game's.  However, I hate the ragdoll crap from ME, so I am glad that didn't rear its ugly head here.

The environments are lacking as well.  Besides the obvious recycled environments, just the detail themselves isn't up to par.  I was just playing Mass Effect and was on the Omega station and looked out one of the windows and the detail they put into it was very impressive.  Not sure where all that detail is here.  Kirkwall seems very basic and uninspired.  I just can't believe they would stage the game in such repetitive and boring environments.

7.  No flavor text:  This is something that I always liked.  When you select an item, usually there would be an option to examine it.  And it would give you a little description on the item.  That is absent in DA2.  Would definitely be a good thing to have that back for DA3.

8.  Lack of a strong villain:  I know people like to say how refreshing this game's storyline is, with no "Big Bad" and no "Save the world" cliche.  However, I would argue that having a very strong and well developed antagonist can only help the story and give your character motivation.  I think they should have developed Meredith and Orsino much earlier in the game and gotten them involved in the earlier acts.

Conclusion:  If I had to place a number score on DA2, it would probably be in the 6.0 - 7.0 range.  I really hated it during Act 1 and if I would have reviewed it then it would have been more like a 2.5/10.  However, the game kind of grew on me and I ended up enjoying it.  Anyway, sorry for the ridiculously long post.

TLDR:
Likes
1.  Unique companion outfits and skill trees were cool.
2.  Graphics (some of the gear and facial expressions during dialogue).
3.  Voiced main character works well in some ways.
4.  Varric.
5.  Cross class combos were nice in this game.  More would be even better.

Dislikes
1.  Lack of multiple companion outfits and inability to upgrade gear/stats.
2.  Dialogue wheel is limiting.
3.  New look of the UI doesn't fit well with a fantasy setting.
4.  Deathblows replaced with exploding bodies.
5.  Enemies:  Wave mechanic, spawning from no where, health levels too high, lack of variety, etc
6.  Graphics and Animation:  Overall, not up to par with their other series, ME.
7.  No flavor text on inventory items.
8.  Lack of a strong antagonist diminishes motivation.

Modifié par Rudger47, 09 avril 2011 - 03:08 .


#2666
Guest_Champion_Max_*

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It was pleasant to me! Serious gloomy and a cruel game. But in comparison with the first part:
Poor system of dialogues
The short company
Romantic relations aren't opened completely
From tactics in fights doesn't remain also a trace
Итог:8.5/10

#2667
Wivvix

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wojciec wrote...

daymz wrote...

@ Wivvix

Great review, I think you're a bit generous with your score tho.


I agree, you list far too many negatives for a 7.5. The review makes for a good reading though.


The negatives are justification of the score of 7.5. I feel confident I could provide a list of positives, were I concerned with providing that feedback, to justify a score of 7.0-7.5. I'll admit I was somewhat generous, because as yet Bioware has not retracted the statement that DA2 is a sequel to DAO, and therefore is appropriated some latitude for the grandfather effect. Were Bioware to issue that retractment, judged on its own merits I imagine that score would be revised down to a round 7.

Mysterygent wrote...

Very well said. Agree 100%. But would add that the combat system moves too fast and too violent for my taste.  Do we need exploding body parts?  The characters are moving too fast during combat that I have a hard time seeing where everyone is.

I agree. At times the combat does move to fast, but to some extent I attribute that to animations more than the actual pace of combat. I also agree on exploding body parts, having raised that in my feedback on the DA2 demo. At times the screen is so distorted by blood smears, one must actually pause and turn the camera to an obtuse angle just to select a character, enemy or issue a move command.

Modifié par Wivvix, 09 avril 2011 - 09:24 .


#2668
Dostojevskij

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I'd like to make my final statement here (posted a review a page or two back)

I will NOT be finishing this game. I am a completionist and a stubborn one at that, I played for 100% on GTA: San Andreas recently (which is pretty hard, time consuming, and aggreviating considering the game isn't the best and is pretty rich on bugs). But this Bullcrap I cannot be arsed with, the final blow is that I just realised destroying one of Tahrones tomes from your inventory after having picked it up doesn't count as "destroying a tome" so now I cannot finish that quest and the tome I did this with was the first one I encountered, circa 15 gameplay hours and multiple ****ed up battles ago.

This is it, DA2 is not going to be played through for me.

#2669
destiny921

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Storyline
The fact that it has a set story is interesting, but I would've loved it if it had been a set story with free choices. Before you say I'm nuts or it's impossible, just hear me out.

So the story is set, but it should've more choices of class, more origins, more companions, more dialogue and stuff. In short, it should've more details and a variety of endings like DA:O. So instead you'd actually have a story with multiple endings. Yep, you read right. One story. But multiple endings, depending on what choices you make. Also, the time-span is a tad too much. Ten years? I'd say the duration of about three to five would've already been enough.

classes
The classes could've been more of a variety instead of just the usual Rogue, Warrior and Mage. There could've been entirely new classes, for example, Druid - a nature-based class with all-round nature related abilities; or Bard - a music-based class which uses songs and instruments as offense and defense; or Hunter - one who specializes in tracking, scouting and bows and arrows; or Seer - one who has the gift of foresight and uses abilities of the mind and specializes in psychology. Heck, you could even have a class which uses the weather for offense and defense attacks, which I give the name "Rain-Seer", a class which I personally devised for my story.

These classes could also come with their own origins, like Elf Noble, Human Ranger, Night Elf, Surface Dwarf, Magi Enchanter and so much more.

Companions
For companions, Velanna, Morrigan, Wynne, Nathaniel, Leliana and Oghren should've been put in seeing as it is a sequel to DA:O. Even Dog could've been included.

Dialogue
As for the dialogue, it's decent, but I miss having the option to talk to the companions whenever I want, wherever I want and hear them telling their stories as well as asking how are they after an event.etc. Basically, I miss having a conversation which I start myself with them. In short, the dialogue style in DA:O is definitely more preferable. And slight increase of cut-scenes with companions would be much appreciated. Now if I can start a conversation whenever and wherever I want with my companions and vice-versa, that would be brilliant.

Combat
Combat-wise, it's not bad, but I would've loved to see more attack combos instead of a cycle of repeated motions. Like having Aveline and Fenris ganging up on enemies filled with uppercuts, slashes.etc instead of just doing the same thing over and over again, even with abilities.

Graphics
Graphics-wise, the dungeons and caves look absolutely boring and do not make me scared at all. Instead, I just go "Oh, look. Dungeons. And caves." The darkspawn don't even look all that scary like they did before when they actually gave me goosebumps. And the warehouses? Don't even mention them. Yes, they're huge and spacious and whatnot, but sometimes go for "less with more" and maybe take a few pages out of DA:O with more traps and more enemies. And I know Sundermount is a mountain, but can you make the base of the mountain a little more...forest-ish? Cause it doesn't even look like one, and if I'm not mistaken, the Dalish Elves settle themselves in forests. I'd suggest taking a couple of pages from James Cameron's Avatar and the Lord of the Rings movie based on Tolkien's novel.

Enemies
For the enemies, can we please have more of a variety instead of the usual dragons, corpses, spiders, darkspawn emmisaries and stuff? Why not take a couple of pages out of mythical creatures, like Elemental Spirits, the Loch Ness monster, or even a hydra? Or even do some based on Japanese mythology creatures. They're seriously scary. Or you could even do a type based on mummies. That reminds me, the enemy mobs are too repetitive and gets boring after some time.

Maps/Places
As for maps and places, I have no problem with Kirkwall - Day or Night, but Outside of Kirkwall, the choices are a tad too limited cause it only has a few. The mini-map irks me a bit though, I prefer DA:O's one.

Others
The moral dillemas, the fast-paced combat, the music, the voice casting and antagonists I don't have problems with. The satisfaction of levelling up so much more than DA:O is also very nice. And the 3D feel due to no zoom button? Genius.

Overall, I rate this about 6/10. It's decent, but so much more could've been done. I hope that, if there is to be a DA:III, that it'll be as great as DA:O, or maybe even better, with nice touches of DA:II of course.

Modifié par destiny921, 09 avril 2011 - 01:00 .


#2670
bigraym0nd2

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Dostojevskij wrote...

I'd like to make my final statement here (posted a review a page or two back)

I will NOT be finishing this game. I am a completionist and a stubborn one at that, I played for 100% on GTA: San Andreas recently (which is pretty hard, time consuming, and aggreviating considering the game isn't the best and is pretty rich on bugs). But this Bullcrap I cannot be arsed with, the final blow is that I just realised destroying one of Tahrones tomes from your inventory after having picked it up doesn't count as "destroying a tome" so now I cannot finish that quest and the tome I did this with was the first one I encountered, circa 15 gameplay hours and multiple ****ed up battles ago.

This is it, DA2 is not going to be played through for me.


I quite feel the same here, im not even done with Act 1 and when i look at the game box, even though its a shiny signature edition, i want it to remain on the shelves. I probably will get back to it at some point, when my frustration cools down though, we'll see.

On a side note, weird that no one mentionned the poor camera system. In DA:O, when you wanted to throw a fireball, you could place it exactly where you wanted by just scrolling backward and get a real nice view from above. Now the zoom out is so limited, it is a massive pain to select a good spot and you eventually end up hitting 1-2 ennemies instead of 5-6. Had to go for spells like cone of cold instead, kinda lame...

#2671
Guest_Champion_Max_*

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Anyway in Origins there are more war and epos scales, and Dragon Age 2 more dramas, romanticism and bitterness of losses!

#2672
Chamber80

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Things I like
Voiced PC - yeah, I like it. It makes the game feel more cinematic.

Things I'm indifferent about or have mixed feelings about:
Companion armor - I don't think this is that big a deal. It's a trade-off. Some people enjoy the micromanagement and customization. Others are indifferent to it and find it to be a chore. I fall in the middle, this is a change I'm mostly apathetic about.

Taking place all in Kirkwall - BG2 was mostly in Athkatla, but you did venture pretty far out a few times elsewhere in the nation of Amn. I would have been totally okay with Kirkwall being the main area that you were in for a majority of the game, but the fact that you never even really leave its borders is kind of eh, especially with the lack of really interesting locales/environments...

Actioned up combat - I still felt like the combat was tactical enough to satisfy me, and the animations were pretty neat (though I miss the deathblow animations and think that some of the body explosion nonsense was a little silly).

Things I take issue with
Simplification/lack of customization- What is this? It's like you guys took 12 steps backward in this area, where customization is one of the #1 things for most RPG players. You have the same 3 basic classes, but removed a lot of the ways that you could customize each compared to DAO. Want to be an Arcane Warrior? Too bad, I guess I can just play a mage and equip a sword. Oh wait I can't do that either because the game forces mages to use staves and nothing else. I can only dual wield as a rogue, and even then I can only dual wield one type of weapon (when there is nothing at all unrealistic about dual-wielding 1 handed swords, axes, or maces). Each of the specializations for each of the classes are also extremely generic and not very flavorful - where are bards, rangers, arcane warriors, shapeshifters, and champions? I simply don't understand the thought process here. 

Companions- while many of them grew on me over time and I don't think the characters are bad, they do not seem anywhere near as creative or well fleshed out as the cast of the original.  They are fewer in number, and you get only humans, dwarves, and elves, where the original had a Quanari, a war hound, and a golem.   

Egotism - This is perhaps what bothers me most, and this is not unique to Bioware, it happens with virtually every game developer. They set a high bar with a high quality product that sells, then to cash in on it they rush out sequels that recycle excessive amounts of content from the original. Then, they're unapologetic and blame players for being reactionary when they've released an obviously inferior product on the coat-tails of a superior one. This is symptomatic of the way that many developers of popular franchises get egotistical and start to think of consumers as sheep (even if not consciously) that they can pull fast ones over on and no one will notice or care. A good example of this is Day 1 DLC for a $60 game. Sorry - more people notice this and get insulted by it than you seem to realize because of the tendency to think of your consumers as rabid fanboys. 

So, do I think Dragon Age 2 is bad? Obviously, it's not a bad game. But, it's clear that more time should have been spent on it - creating new environments and carefully analyzing the ramification of "Mass Effect-ifying" it when it has a different niche appeal than that series.

Modifié par Chamber80, 09 avril 2011 - 07:00 .


#2673
Shadowbanner

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Wivvix great review but your rating seems detached from your own criticisms! You slate the game, in a reasoned constructive manner, highlighting its uneneding weak points yet you still give it a stellar mark, 7.5/10 is very good. I'd say a 5/10 would be more coherent with what you've written.

#2674
TheTouch

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 So I finally got done with my first playthrough on the PC and here are my thoughts...

Firstly, I will say that I enjoyed the game.  But not as much as Origins.  There are some things that were improved upon, some that should have been improved but were left the same, and others that - for whatever reason - were made worse.  Then there were the things that were just different.  What I'm going to do is go through them in that order.

Things that were improved upon

Companion Quests

Really, the only companion quest in Origins that even comes close to comparing with DA2's was Morrigan's.  The rest of them were almost throwaway quests.  In DA2 they were all fairly involved and directly related to the story, and I loved that.

Pacing

Origins took forever to do anything.  The 'three trials' section simply dragged on forever.  What DA2 has done far better is to have individual quests take less time and advance that section of the story/side-story in a relatively quick fashion.  The game just flows a lot better as a result.  Arguably the pacing should have been a little slower, at least on the 

Act Structure

I felt that the timeflow of the game felt a lot better than with Origins.  Having some proper culminations at the end of each act (not going to spoiler them, but the end of Act 2 felt particularly epic to me) was much better than the way it was handled in Origins, where you pretty much limped from the end of one act to the beginning of the next.

Friend/Rival system

Not a lot to say.  The idea that some characters like what you do and others dislike it makes a lot of sense to me.  I used to love in Baldur's Gate where some companions would just leave your party if you were too good or evil.  It's great that the same can finally happen again.

Talents

The talent trees are just so much better.  The layout, the intuitiveness, the variety...  Everything about the talents is just better.  Which brings us to:

Cross class Combos

The addition of combos really enables you to customise how you play the game.  You want to run with a Sword-and-Board and do a ton of Stagger-based combos?  You can do that.  You'd prefer to go for a bunch of mages stunning and comboing off that?  You can do that too.  You want to run as many rogues as possible and goad/armistice kite while doing stun combos with Miasmic Flask?  Guess what, you can.

Diaglogue Wheel and the Non-Silent PC

OK so this is apparently one of those Marmite things, but I loved how Mass Effect's PC interacted with the world, so I was delighted when it was introduced to Origins in the DLC Leliana's Song, and even more so when it was fully implemented for DA2.  And for those who complain that the diaglogue wheel doesn't let you really know what you're saying, one of the main complaints about Origins' diaglogue system was that, even with the full text in the options, the other characters often reacted as if you'd said something completely different.  The diaglogue wheel lets you know in advance whether you're taking the 'nice guy' option, the 'dick' option, or something else.  It gives you far more control over your character's general approach, without having to interpret the text option (and having that come back to bite you in the ass) as was the case in Origins.

Mages

They're not overpowered anymore.  Yay.  I don't feel like a total idiot for taking a ranged rogue in my group instead.  Actually, rogues are very useful.

Initial Feel of Combat

The combat just feels so much more visceral.  It makes for a more exciting gaming experience.

Things that stayed the same

Actual Nature of Combat

OK, so one of my main gripes in Origins was that so much of the melee combat - especially for warriors - was just autoattacking until the enemy died.  The same is true of DA2.  You often charge in, do a few things at the start, get your sustained modes activated and then... sit there while the rest of your party kills the enemies.  Maybe you right click on a new enemy (or just hit R - I guess that's the PC equivalent of A or X), but mostly it's waiting for stamina to regen, then hitting one ability, maybe chugging a stamina potion and doing the same.

The scene at the beginning of the game was fun, because your stamina regenerated fast enough that you could genuinely exerience the button-awesome interface.  The combat during the rest of the game just did not live up to that.  At all.

Encounters - Sort of

Particularly non-boss encounters (because the bosses are good enough IMO).  I walk around a corner and, surprise surprise, there is a group of ~3 ranged and ~5melee, maybe a single caster, and the caster is easily the most deadly member of that group.  It just feels so repetitive.  We'll come to the waves later...

Things that were made worse

Encounters - Waves

Yeah, I get it for demons, ghouls, corpses and stuff, and even the 'assassin' or 'hunter' units but Templars leaping off the rooftops just shatters the illusion.  It feels lazy, and is also really irritating when things spawn next your squishies and 1-shot them on Nightmare.  I'd like a little more predictability without having to just die to the encounter a few times to figure out exactly where the next wave spawns from.

Tanking

Holding threat with a Sword-and-Board tank is just a pain in the neck, and then when you do manage it (through abilities like Goad and Armistice as well as stamina pots just for taunting), the tank can't do nearly enough dps to make it worthwhile.  That's why people are running through the game using a 2h warrior tank, even on nightmatre (like my dual wield tank in Origins).  Using a 'proper' tank just makes you feel like you're deliberately making things harder on yourself.  At one point in the game I was forced to take Aveline because I had no 2h warrior in the group, and that was the single most irritating part of the game for me because she couldn't hold aggro or do dps.  Sure she survived a lot, but that had as much to do with the fact that enemies were hitting everybody else as it did with her survivability skills.

Location, Location, Location

Or more to the point, the complete lack of different locations.  Let's head to generic warehouse 8, and afterwards we can head to Sundermount for the 16th time...

Companion Interactions - Particularly Romance

Flirt 1
Flirt 2
Flirt 3
Come to bed, baby...

Yeah, that sucked.  It worked so much better in Origins, where you had to actually get to know your love interest before they would sleep with you (even Zevran!).  I literally chatted to Merril a few times and then she was telling me she loved me.  That felt very VERY clunky.

I did like the writing desk though - knowing that my companions can contact me when they want to talk is better than checking in on them one by one every time I make camp.

Models

What the hell did Bioware do to the models?  Some of the comparison pics in the Motivational Posters thread really bring home how awful the NPCs look now.

Armour System

Most of the armour in the game completely useless because I can't even use it to build up my companions.  I hated that.  It was awful.  Awful awful awful.  Fair enough if you don't want them to change their appearance (actually no, not fair enough, it's a damn RPG - character customisation is kind of the point) but why isn't there at least armour that is specific to the characters (like Morrigan's multiple robes that looked the same)?

Overall Feel of the Game

My general feeling while playing the game was that I was slogging through the game to experience the story.  I didn't feel anywhere near as immersed in the world as I have in other games (notably other Bioware games such as Origins, KOTOR, and Baldur's Gate).  There very few moments that really made me give a damn (and those moments really brought home how little I gave a damn during the rest of the game).


Conclusion


Overall I felt the game was worse than Origins.  There were some improvements, but the things that got worse overshadowed the improvements.  The reuse of area maps was particularly jarring after the sumptuous and varied locations in Origins.  It felt like the lessons learned between Origins and Awakenings were almost completely ignored.

It was a fun enough game, but compared to Origins and Awakenings, DA2 was just not up to par.


6.5 / 10

Modifié par TheTouch, 09 avril 2011 - 10:28 .


#2675
Redcoat

Redcoat
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Like many others, I'm sure, I preordered Dragon Age 2 with the expectation that it would deliver more of the same that its predecessor, much like how I when I buy a bottle of Lagavulin Single Malt I know that I'm going to get good Scotch. But imagine that one day the Lagavulin decides that it wants to attract non-Scotch drinkers, so they water their product down and age it for only one-fifth the time. I don't believe I'm being presumptuous in believing that most Scotch would regard said product as an affront. So it is with Dragon Age 2. Don't get me wrong, judged on its own Dragon Age 2 isn't a "bad" game. Well, it's decent. Parts of it are entertaining. But compared to what BioWare has produced in the past it's painfully lacking. There's something with just about everything in this game, and it's usually a major thing.

Now, I've heard some defend this game by stating that RPGs evolve like any other genre and that time didn't freeze with the release of Baldur's Gate 2. There is truth to this; the worst thing a franchise can do is become a stale, formulaic rehash-of-a-rehash-of-a-rehash like The Legend of Zelda. But it's difficult to see Dragon Age 2 as an evolution. Rather, it's watered-down, gutted, and altogether unsatisfying take on the genre that discards or grossly simplifies the things that make RPGs enjoyable. It's like the game decided to transform itself from a tactical RPG to a hack-and-slash action adventure game, only to be interrupted mid-way through the transformation process. The result isn't so much a hybrid of the two genres as it is mutant abomination.

The Story, or, "I can hear the DM making "choo-choo" noises as he railroads the plot.":

To paraphrase Mark Twain, a tale should accomplish something and arrive somewhere. But Dragon Age 2's story accomplishes nothing and arrives in the air. The main setting of the game - the conflict between the mages and templars of Kirkwall - is certainly an interesting one, and unlike the typical save-the-world plot of an RPG the conflict isn't painted in shades of white and black. Some templars sympathise with the mages, others want to "solve" the issue by turning every mage into a Tranquil. Meanwhile some mages just want to be free, while others want to take more extreme measures against the templars and the Chantry.

Sadly, what I've written above is a setting, not a story, and there isn't much of one in Dragon Age 2. "Things happen" is the most apt description I can give. Fight some faceless goons, things happen. Fight some more, things happen. There's no overarching plot or goal save the initital "get rich or die trying." The game is presumably about Hawke's rise to power and how he/she became the Champion of Kirkwall, but at no point during the game did I feel a sense of accomplishment or that I had deserved the title of "Champion," mainly because my character did not seem to play an active role in shaping events, but merely reacted passively the things happening around him. In Dragon Age: Origins, you ended up deciding which allies would fight alongside you in the blight, who woul slay the archdemon, and who would rule Ferelden afterwards. In DA2, none of your choices matter in the end, and there's little you can do to change the outcome of events. I dare say that it feels very much like the events of the game would have taken place had Hawke not been present at all. Quite simply, the story never succeeds in involving the player in the way DA:O did, and in the end I simply did not care. Part of the problem is that the plot pushes so hard to be filled with "morally grey" characters which, when done badly, usually means that all the characters end up being utterly unlikable. This is quite true of Kirkwall, which is populated almost entirely by zealots, fanatics, murderers, psychopaths, thugs, and cutthroats. I sympathised with the Arishok; who wouldn't be pissed off and ready to go on a rampage after spending years in the wretched hive that is Kirkwall?

Worse, even though the conflict between the mages and templars plays a central role in the narrative, it never actually relates in any way to the gameplay. A mage Hawke can cast spells in the streets left and right (blood magic spells, no less), and no one bats an eye. An even more egregious example comes near the beginning of the game, where Wesley calls out Bethany on being an apostate, and doesn't even notice that Hawke is also an apostate mage. You don't have to make a bargain with a demon to learn blood magic, unlike in DA:O it's simply chosen as a specialisation, and there's never any consequence for dabbling in it, either.

It just struck me that DA2 very much follows the philosophy of the Qun: there are things you must do, and the only choice you have is to either do them or not do them. But if you don't do them, then the game goes nowhere. There's precious little actual "role-playing" for an RPG; I never once felt that Hawke was "my" character the way the Warden was "my" Warden. Since nothing you do in the game really matters in the end, I felt as if I was simply guiding a prefabricated character down a fixed, linear path. The dialog wheel does the game no favours. Instead of choosing replies, I got the impression that I was merely chosing the tenor of what was spoken (Nice/Jerk/LOL FUNNY) rather than the actual words, which isn't helped by the fact that what comes out of Hawke's mouth is often quite different from what the summary text reads.


Combat, or, "Na-na-na-na-na-na-na BATMAN!":

Combat in DA2 is an absolute farce. DA:O's combat displayed some measure of realism, in that characters weren't routinely performing physically impossible acts. Come DA2, and suddenly characters are leaping thirty feet in a single bound, teleporting behind enemies to deliver backstabs, or other comically absurd actions. Everything has been made so over-the-top in an effort to appear "cool" and "awesome" that it becomes very difficult to take battles seriously. The ludicrous gore is the worst offender; I laughed out loud when I saw Isabela backstab someone and he exploded in a shower of blood body parts, but I'm guessing that laughter wasn't the response the developers were going for. The fighting animations, being of the hyper-punctuated WHAM-WHAM-WHAM sort, are atrocious, looking more like a series of still frames than actual combat. I have a sneaking suspicion that the combat style was influenced by the rubbish that passes for "animation" in Japanese cartoons, which is rather appropriate given that "cartoonish" is a good description of how combat in DA2 plays out. As I watched the battles tkae place, with over-the-top theatrics and hordes of faceless goons rushing in to be slaughtered, it struck me that combat in DA2 is very much like an ultra-violent version of the Adam West-era Batman TV series. All that's missing are the BIFF! ZONK! and POW! flashing onscreen every time you kill someone.

And then there are times when the silly animations get in the way of fighting. Playing as a mage, I had to wait until my character stopping twirling her staff about like a bloody baton before I could use one of my spells, giving the enemy  enough time to get up in my face and hack me three quarters of the way to dead. Annoying.

But at least the tactical nature of combat has been retained, right? Well, no. By "tactical" I mean "trying to play the game like a hack-and-slash will get you killed." Sadly, that is not the case with DA2. Not only has combat been wound up to a much faster pace, you now have to deal with enemies spawning in waves. Sometimes the enemies leap down from the roofs and whatnot, but more often they simply appear out of thin air. You can try to position your party members strategically, with your tank and DPSer in the front and your mage and archer in the back, but all your "tactics" will be rent to shivers when you discover that your mage and archer are now dead because a horde of goons just spawned atop them. If the waves or respawning enemies were limited to one or two encounters it would not be so bad, but it happens with EVERY SINGLE BATTLE. Even if your quest is to kill a single person standing in a tiny room rest assured at least ten more goons will suddenly appear out of nowhere when battle commences. Combine this with with the blinding pace of battle, most encounters will quickly degenerate into a furball, with your character hacking and slashing while you wait for your talents' cooldowns (which are now interminably long) to reset. I never once had to think strategically about which talents or spells I used, either, other than remembering not to waste them before the next wave arrived. Playing as a rogue, I can't even try to get into position for backstabs anymore, because backstabs are now just another talent you push a button to activate. Having to manoeuvre yourself into position was just too complicated for players, it seems.

Battles themselves aren't overly difficult, but when they are, it's usually in a cheap and infuriating way. Most often it happens due to the aforementioned zerg-rushing of your party member by the magically-appearing mobs of goons. If not that, then it will be the absurd amount of hitpoints that enemies possess. I know this is game and all, but it struck me as a tad unbelievable that an unarmoured mage could take numerous blows from a two-handed sword and several fireballs to the face and still be standing. Boss-level enemies are even worse, as you'll spending literally several minutes just beating on them whilst their lifebars ever so slowly decrease. In DA2, DPS is king. In fact, tanking is useless in this game, as there's no way your tank will be able to get the aggro of all the spawning enemies

Occasionally, though, the game will decide that it has to be, you know, challenging, and throw a few enemies into the mix with rather, shall we say, "cheap" abilities. Say hello to assassins that can turn invisible in broad daylight, then backstab your mage for half their health. Say hello to blood mages with an AOE attack that can turn your party from full health to dead in a matter of seconds, all the while your busy trying to fight off the mobs of enemies zerg-rushing your party. Combined with how easy most other encounters are, these sudden spikes in difficulty are more than a little jarring. Say hello to traps that your rogue won't detect on your character is right on top of them. Say hello to ridiculous long cooldowns on healing potions, leaving you to bang your head against your desk in frustration as mobs tear apart your characters who cannot because the game won't let you. DA:O suffered from difficulty balancing issues, but DA2 is positively bipolar. It's like a series of boxing matches against a string of wimpish lightweights, only every so often you end up fighting a heavyweight armed with an AK-47.

The most aggravating aspect of combat, however, is that there's so damn much of it! Violence is the only solution in Kirkwall, it seems, because with a few exceptions every quest involves you fighting off waves of faceless grunts. Several times I was tempted to lower the difficulty to "Casual," not because the game was overly difficult, but simply to get through the tedious encounters and on to the next plot point.

Then there's level scaling. While not as bad as in unmodded Oblivion, it still creates the feeling that you aren't getting stronger with each level up. As a matter of fact you aren't, really, instead all you gain are new skills. Your attribute increases are only there is keep you on par with enemies, which apparently include all the random thugs hanging around Kirkwall who hate you specifically and have nothing better to do than pick fights with Hawke. Now in DA:O and other RPGs likr Fallout New Vegas, there were limits as to how far enemies could level up, so level-low enemies were always going to weak no matter what level you were at. Or there's even the Baldur's Gate 2 approach, where a higher-level character would encounter high-level monsters. Either way is MUCH better than the level scaling in DA2, where the bloody champion of Kirkwall can still be menaced by random street thugs. It completely defeats the purpose of levelling up and removes any sense of progression, accomplishment, or immersion.

The Item System, or "You can have my sword when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. Too bad it'll be obsolete after you level up.":

Not only do enemies scale up with you, items do so as well, effectively turning management of your party's equipment into a chore. One of the joys of playing an RPG is defeating a particularly difficult foe (such as Firkraag in BG2) and then swiping their loot. That's not the case in DA2, where your Infinity Plus One longsword will be eclipsed by the local merchants' offerings after a level up or two. That means that every time you level up you'll end up having to go around to the local merchants to trade in your now-obsolete gear lest you find yourself out-equipped by the local thugs. If that sounds like busywork and padding, well, it is.

Gone are the item descriptions of DA:O that gave you some description of what an item was and its history. Here the game is filled with generic "Rings," "Amulets," and "Belts" which just somehow magically provide the wearer with certain benefits. This is admitedly a minor thing, but such "flavouring text" adds colour to the world and a sense of immersion, something DA2 is in desperate want of.

The Environment, or "Here in the Free Marches, we use prefab caves!"

As many others have already pointed out, the world of DA2 is very small indeed. You are limited to a handful of districts of Kirkwall along with a few outdoor locales and the Deep Roads. All of these are extremely basic in design, consisting of little more than narrow passageways connecting large, open areas. Now, being confined to a single town wouldn't be so bad if Kirkwall had some life to it. In Oblivion, for example, NPCs had a set routine that they would go through during the day, and they had the ability to react to things happening around them. Granted, this system was rather limited, but at least it created the impression that the world wasn't entirely static. Kirkwall, on the other hand, is filled with lifeless NPCs that cannot be interacted with and that never go anywhere. The game supposedly spans tens year, yet nother ever changes. The one NPC who complains about not being able to see the viscount will still be there, complaining, YEARS later.

The recycled dungeons are the worst of it. The only variation is that there will be areas you cannot enter, lazily blocked off with debris. Sometimes there won't even be that, and you'll find an invisible wall blocking your progress. The same criticism was levelled at Mass Effect, where it could at least be excused as the use of prefabricated structures and spaceships. Here in DA2 it's simply inexcusable, and a clear sign that the game was allowed far less time in development than it needed.

The Characters, or "Bad Fenris! Go back to JRPG hell!":

Characters are always BioWare's strength, and DA2's cast is easily the best part of the game. But even then, they aren't given the depth and development they deserve. Your conversations with them are much more limited and abbreviated, and you can only speak to them in their homes at certain points during the story (necessary, because otherwise you'd blow through all their dialog in less than three minutes). There's none of DA:O's party camp where you could "check in" with your companions after a major quest (or, more pratically, level up and equipment all of them at once). This creates the unfortunate feeling that your party is less a group dedicated to a certain objective and more just a gang of people who hang around Hawke because, I don't know, he's a cool chap and all that.

In terms of actual gameplay, each character is so firmly slotted into a particular role that it's intensely frustrating. If you want a tank, you MUST use Aveline, because she's the only one specced to that role. If you want a healer, there's no option besides Anders, because Merrill has no access to healing abilities at all. In DA:O, Morrigan could have healing spells, or Wynne could have offensive spells. Leliana and Zevran could be built either as melee or ranged combatants. Shale could be either a tank, a DPSer, and buffer. You don't have such flexibility in DA2, which is exacerbated by the lack of an option to equipment armour on your companions. If you're playing as a mage, get ready to sell each piece of armour you come across, because it is useless. You can't even say that this was done to simplify things, since you still have to equip your companions' weapons, amulets, belts, and rings, so why can't we change their armour? If BioWare wanted each character to retain their unique look, then why not allow a "hide armour" option, much like the "hide helmet" option?

The romance arcs for each love interest are likewise shallow and under-developed. You have maybe three of four flirty banters and suddenly you and your chosen LI are shagging (in their underwear, natch). You don't even have to think about what you'll say, just pick the heart icon and away you go. There's no real sense of relationship building between the two characters, nor does the romance lead to any recognisable character development. In Baldur's Gate 2, for example, you can turn Viconia away from the evil ways of the drow, resulting in a change in her alignment. You could help Aerie to stop pitying herself and learn to stand on her own two feet. Morever, relationships in BG2 (and DA:O) felt serious; that they might be something that could last. In DA2 they come across as being little more than flings and one-night-stands.

Conclusion: A forgettable followup to a great RPG:

I really wanted to like Dragon Age 2, I really did. I preordered it as soon as it was available and purchased the release-day DLC in spite of disdain for such a practice. What I got was a shallow, unmemorable, and watered-down RPG that I'll likely give one more play-through and then never touch again. Calling it "Dragon Age 2" was a mistake, as it created the expectation that the sequel would offer more of the same. Instead what we got was a game that was developed in one-fifth the time of its predecessor, and is one-fifth the game.