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DA2 review 12/20


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#76
ChipSet

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BIO18 wrote...

ChipSet wrote...

BIO18 wrote...

ChipSet wrote...

BIO18 wrote...

Yeah sorry I did not put the link before . I was just not expecting this . If JV say its 12 out of 20 then It is 12 out of 20 for me .


Please tell me you're trolling.....


I have been using jeuxvideo.com for 15 years now , and not ounce was I not 100% with what they where saying . Please do not use the "troll" expression to much . A troll is someone that INSULTS on internet ... Did I insult ? No ... So I wasnt trolling ... ^_^


So for fifteen years you made your own opinion out of something you read on web. Wow, now i understand why  you always agree with them. I mean, if JV.om  say it’s bad you don’t try the game lol! . Anyway, sorry if I’m blunt, but you’re a sheep….


And your not to clever are you ? I have alwaise made my own opinion ,




Really?

 

BIO18 wrote...

If JV say its 12 out of 20 then It is 12 out of 20 for me

 


I’m sorry, but you’re either a troll or a sheep. And for the record I don’t intent to ppologize.

Modifié par ChipSet, 08 mars 2011 - 08:03 .


#77
Aidunno

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Sylvianus wrote...
 JV. / Now DA2 : 12/20
Canard pc : 5/10
Jvn 14/20

The common negative point: the dubbing and translation.

I'm english but live in germany. Dubbing and translation is something which many native english speakers don't really know about having never experienced it. Dubbing of foreign language films into english for instance (Brotherhood of Wolves, Vidoq, Water Margin if you're older) is generally attrocious. I actually watch Brotherhood of Wolves either in french with english subtitles or german, despite the fact my german is not that good. For foriegn "viewers" there's a lot of variation. Sometimes the dubbing is actually an improvement over the original. This is still rare however. I know most of my german friends also speak english very well and prefer watching things in the original version where possible.

It is my impression however that the french, are very protective of their language, some would say rightfully so and are subsequently not as open when it comes to poor dubbing.

Modifié par Aidunno, 08 mars 2011 - 08:19 .


#78
EynonPower

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captain.subtle wrote...

EynonPower wrote...



Just a crazy idea here.....but maybe, instead of listening to someone and taking their word as 100% concrete fact, maybe you can play the game yourself and form your own opinion?  Again, I know its crazy!  Just give it a try!  I only played 2 hours so far, and i'm having a lot of fun with it.  I'm sure i'll continue to do so.


Then what's the point of reading a review? According to your crazy argument reviews should only mentally prepare me to play or not to play. They wouldn't dictate my choice!! 


The point of reading a review is to see if you would be interested in a game or not.  If you went to the midnight release, bought the game and are playing it now, then, in all honestly there is no point in reading the review.  The OP literally said he takes that web site to heart and would trust it with his/her life.  I am saying that if he/she was really looking forward to this game, and is soooo exited to play it, maybe he/she should play it and form his/her own opinion about it. 

You know in the Olympics how scoring events dont count the highest score and lowest score, and they'll take the average of the rest?  I'm pretty sure the 12/20 would be a score that is lobbed off.

#79
Mashiki

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Leonick91 wrote...
But you think DAO was good i presume? Yea, EA behind them at that time too...
Seriously it's not like DAO and other Bioware games have never got any bad reviews, the metecritic scores for DA2 are still good

No they weren't.  DAO was done before they were bought out by EA.  EA then made bioware push back the release date so they could shovel out a console version.  DAO was PC centric, an done nearly 9mo before it's final release date.

#80
psychobudgie

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ap101 wrote...

Just what happened to Bioware?


EA happened to Bioware. The drive for profits over substance always wins with companies the size of EA. Dead Space II is a great example of this.

#81
Sylvianus

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I'm english but live in germany. Dubbing and translation is something which many native english speakers don't really know about having never experienced it. Dubbing of foreign language films into englsh for instance (Brotherhood of Wolves, Vidoq, Water Margin if you're older) is generally attrocious. I actually watch Brotherhood of Wolves either in french with english with subtitles or german, despite the fact my german is not that good rather than the english. For foriegn "viewers" there's a lot of variation. Sometimes the dubbing is actually an improvement over the original. This is still rare however. I know most of my german friends also speak english very well and prefer watching things in the original version where possible.

It is my impression however that the french, are very protective of their language, some would say rightfully so and are subsequently not as open when it comes to poor dubbing.

It's true. I will not say otherwise. :D

But this is the first time that several reviews meet it. And I can assure you that even before the reviews, I was shocked about the bad job of voice in the French version of demo.

I never responded to any dubbing or translation. M1 and M2, and DAO were worked perfectly. I've never had to complain.

That's why I look a little anxiety the final version. Of course, in a set of voice, with a wheel throughout the game, it could seriously break the immersion.

Many frightened already pre-ordered the English version. Unfortunately the majority will not be satisfied that the French.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 08 mars 2011 - 08:14 .


#82
dragon_83

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LOL at the people who are ****ing about the french gaming site. The
world of journalism is not just about Gamespot, IGN and the like. The
JXV site in France is just as prominent as Gamespot in the states, the
only difference is that they haven't sold out yet, and dare to give an
appropriate score to this dumbed down hack&slash game.


Just to let you know, they didn't give it a low score because the ****ed
up french dubbing and translation. Those things were not good
obviously, but the main factors for the low score were the bad combat
design, and the recycled maps.

It is ridiculous that whenever a bad review comes out, the Biofanboys
are starting to **** about the site/magazine, discrediting their
article. Don't believe to the reviews. Let's see how the gamers vote:

www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dragon-age-ii

User score: 5,2. Ouch, it looks like the game is still not welcoming
enough. Maybe Bioware should have removed the stats and combat abilities
from the game.

Andhaira wrote...


I just wonder what Mister Gaider has to say regarding these scores, specifically where the reviewers are according to his own "denial chart":

Posted Image

I'm not sure what stage these people would fit at?

I think the disappointed people fit into an alternative Stage 5: Acceptance - You realize that Bioware managed to fail in RPG game design, because when you press a button, Awesome is not happening.

Modifié par dragon_83, 08 mars 2011 - 09:09 .


#83
Loc'n'lol

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Here's a full translation of the review. Probably includes a ton of minor spelling mistakes and typos but I will go through it again to fix what I can. The original review is available here for anyone who can read it, I am not the author of the original text.

In a few places I have included remarks between [square brackets] where I was unsure how to translate. Round brackets are part of the original review.

*VERY MINOR SPOILERS*

Late 2009, DAO came to thrill fans of epic tales and tactical combat. Its success gave birth to a trail of DLC, each more insignificant than the other, as well as an extension, Awakening, solid but not unforgettable. All of this content came in 2010, so that we wonder where Bioware found time to develop this Dragon Age 2.

Dragon Age 2 will have caused fans distrust as soon as it was announced officially last summer. Trailers and information spread set expectations for an action-oriented RPG, amputated of a number of functionalities that made the success of its predecessor, starting with the origins system and the tactical aspect of combats. Reduced development time (a little over one year) reinforced those fears. Still, we didn't want to believe it : From Baldur's Gate to Mass Effect through NWN and KOTOR, Bioware's journey is marked with titles of an undisputable quality. So, even if it was likely that the direction of this title wouldn't please everyone, we expected to be stunned once more by the quality of the Canadian studio's work. This is why we're shocked : The problem with Dragon Age 2 is not one of opinions, it's simply one of quality.

The story is narrated in the form of flashbacks, during a rather heated discussion between Varric Tethras, an adventuring and bantering dwarf, and Cassandra Pentaghast, a Seeker of the Chantry. The later would like to evaluate the involvement of one of Varric's companions - a fellow named Hawke - in the events that led to the political instability of Thedas. This Hawke is none other than your character, whose background you cannot escape. We find him fleeing Lothering, his hometown, sacked during the assault of the Darkspawn you could experience in DAO. Hawke, who can be male or female, is followed by his mother Leandra, his brother Carver and his sister Bethany. In order to balance your small group, a first consequence will rapidly result from your initial choice : if Hawke is a rogue or warrior, his brother will die during the prologue, slain by an orge (yes, again...) ; but if he's a mage, his sister will die instead. Creation of your avatar is unfortunately limited to this choice of class and physical appearance ; We wouldn't want to scare off the neophytes with RPG elements ! From here on, where the first title took time to present context through different prologues, this sequel dives directly into the action, to make sure it displays clearly its new direction while teaching you how to play. Still, take time to import your final DAO save if you want to find the world in the state you left it ; repercussions are anecdotal, but at least they exist.

However it is not in the kingdom of Ferelden that the story takes place, but further north, in the former mining city of Kirkwall, with a past history of slavery. We find our little family one year later, trying like many other Fereldan refugees to make a place for themselves in the city. The plot is divided in 3 acts. In the first, Hawke tries to amass enough money to set for an expedition in the Deep Roads with Varric and his brother Bartrand, promise of untold riches. To do that, you will benefit from a lot of secondary quests, which are as many occasions to meet your first companions : an apostate mage possessed by a demon, an exiled dalish who will join the local [elvenage ?], a slave on the run... We are in known territory. Dragon Age 2's background is still dark, but we wouldn't have been against a little bit of renewal in the thematics. There are 7 possible recruits (excluding DLCs). Although we appreciate that the role and behaviour of some of them evolves over time (noteworthy: Aveline's responsibilities), overall they lack personality. It is regrettable to see that Anders, coming from Awakening, is now devoid of his usual vanity and arrogance (even though this change is explained), or that the busty Isabela, seen in Origins, eventually proves to be less sulphurous than expected. Dragon Age 2 is also an opportunity to meet other old acquaintances (Flemeth, Leliana...), although those who hoped to find out Morrigan's fate will probably be mildly disappointed.

Generally speaking, this sequel lacks the epic inspiration that carried the first game. The stakes, at first intimate, grow during the game's progression, but the main story, suffering from a relatively sober staging, hardly takes off and eventually turns out to be quite boring to follow. The French localization is no stranger to this feeling. The problem is in part due to dubbing, way too flat, but especially the translations filled with aproximations, where the previous game was beyond reproach. Sometimes we find consecutive replies without logical link, to the point where we have a hard time understanding some quests. The problem is that this affects what should have been one of the strong points of the game : the dialog system, borrowed from ME2. It systematically proposes several choices of reply, each based on a given attitude (friendly, hostile, sarcastic or cupid). But the short description of possible replies does not shed enough light ; the choices are not clearly delimited. It is especially grave given that, although they never result in dice throws as in Drakensang or Fallout New Vegas, behaviour options sometimes have large consequences, such as the appreciation of your own companions. These will not always react verbally to your actions, but you will at least see the evolution of their approval gauge, and initiating romance or conflict with one of them still has consequences, including the possibility to unlock specific abilities (and this is new !).

Quest resolution is another cause of disappointment. Whatever the nature of your mission, you can be sure that it will result in a succession of fights since it is extremely rare to get out of tricky situations with subtlety. Little persuasion, little thinking, but a lot of fighting : such is Dragon Age 2's motto. Most quests take place in different parts of Kirkwall, which comes with its lot of problems. In fact, they involve quite a lot of NPCs and often have follow-ups, which would be perfectly fine if the quest book [journal ?] wasn't reduced to its simplest form : sometimes we wonder who we are talking to and what we are doing here, not remembering the purpose of the mission. Others will take you outside the walls of the city and it's no better. You then move around very generic corridor-areas where your goal is to eliminate all opposition to reach you goal. Already lacking in the first game, exploration is totally left out here. If we dared quantify gameplay components, we could say that DA2 is approximately 80% combat, 15% dialogue, and 5% exploration. Missions consisting of bringing to their owner relics found here and there don't have the slightest interest, and quests linked to your companions are largely uneven, some can be summed up as leading a simple dialogue. Furthermore, the few irreverent humourous bits that characterized DAO have disappeared. Even visting a ****house turns out to be plain boring.

Evidently, immersion wasn't a priority. Where the first game allowed you to travel on a world map, with random encounters to create a link between the diferent areas of the game, the sequel goes to the essential by proposing only a simple menu on which possible destinations are displayed (quest markers included). And instead of giving their game an actual day/night cycle (a fan request), Bioware preferred to let you trigger the desired time of the day yourself. The whole severly lacks homogeneity : we feel like we're navigating between disconnected places rather than a coherent world. In terms of ambience, DA2 inherits the failings of the first game : areas are often empty, with little interactions (a few chests and many codex entries, but that's it really), while NPCs are too static and are just there for show : with the exception of merchants, it's generally impossible to speak to anyone who does not have a mission to give or to get into a building that isn't linked to a quest. It's sad to see such a lack of ambition, which sometimes ends up in lack of care when we find ourselves going for the third time through the same dungeon, recycled at will. With little variety, the environments are not particularly pretty : if urban areas and indoors aren't too bad, outsides show off without modesty their angular polygons, disgracious textures and plastic vegetation.

But the form matters little if the matter is here, especially when it comes to character evolution. On that matter, DA2 gives off mixed feelings. First we are relieved to find a progression system that hasn't changed much : for each level, you still have to apply your attribute points and pick your talents yourself. As numerous and varied as in the first game, the abilities have been carefully reorganized (the effect of some can now be maximized [refers to upgrades I suppose]) and your character can still specialize starting from level 7. Each companion even has a specific tree (Varric, for example, possesses a tree dedicated to Bianca, his crossbow). However, everything else is gone, starting with skills, which allowed refining the role of a character : theft, coercion and survival are no more, disarming and lockpicking are now based on cunning and crafting now consists of ordering consumables in dedicated stores, provided you own the receipe and components. More troubling, looted armor parts are now reserved for your character : your companions have a default outfit they cannot change, but which can be upgraded. They are therefore less customizable than in the past. Also gone are : the fatigue system which marked the end of munchkins, the party camp (which made the charm of the first game) and the possibility to offer gifts to your companions. In short, if the whole is not too badly roughed, we lose a lot of little details which made DAO a great RPG.

Bioware's objective was clearly to focus on the action and make sure it is the most spectacular it could be. In a way, it is a success : movements are more dynamic, hits pack more punch and fighters are thrown or blown apart in streams of blood. Furthermore, synergy between the party members is reinforced (some can fragilize a target so that others may exploit it). But if you happen to play in easy or normal, combat has little interest given how much it feels like a simple hack'n'slash. Even if the principle of wounds has been maintained, the game is way too easy. To get a semblance of challenge, you need to move to nightmare mode, because even hard does not include friendly fire (you can shower your companions with fireballs without consequences). Problem : although the fights do become much more demanding, with the requirement to give orders and pause, the "wanderings" of playability do not allow for tactical play, which does not forgive at a level where the slightest mistake is fatal. For a start, the aerial camera, way too close, does not make targetting easier. Furthermore, even though it is technically possible to deactivate predefined tactics of your characters to control each of their moves, this is not without problems, proof that the game was not designed for this : they attack on sight even though they shouldn't, do not hold position or wander the battlefield striking at empty spaces. Edifying !

And that's not all : characters frequently lose the target you assigned them to, either because they were interrupted by an enemy attack, or because they suffer a bug which happens sometimes when using an ability (excruciating when it is a sneak attack intended to take out a target). Fights turn out to be a nightmare for he who wishes to play in the mode of the same name. To make things worse, they suffer from very repetitive patterns : you walk into a room, and as soon as you get in the middle, creatures spawn all around you ; as their numbers dwindle, a new wave of monsters appears, with no regards to realism, preventing you from planifying your actions. Fortunately, it is often possible to exploit AI mistakes to triumph. Long story short, combat has lost all its salt. By the way, as said above, they represent the largest part of the playtime. Is it necessary to say more ?

EDIT: there are grades below that with a short explanation, already translated and discussed in this thread.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 08 mars 2011 - 10:22 .


#84
patocerda

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@dragon_83: you know, i just want to point out that the metacritic user review's are only 50, from about the tens of thousands of people that are going to actually play the game, and also, it's on the first day it's been out, so probably all they are doing is give their first impression, being closed and not letting themselves to think that BioWare never wanted to make a copy of DAO in a different setting, they ARE experimenting,after all..
So what happened? Maybe their formula wasn't that great... or maybe the reviews are complete trash from whiners... we'll see in the coming weeks, if not months.
Meanwhile, I'm going to save up for it...cya.

#85
Marionetten

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Andhaira wrote...

I'm not sure what stage these people would fit at?

I'm more curious about where BioWare would be.

#86
Sergius64

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Well that's it then. I refuse to award Bioware/EA $60 for a poor job. Will wait till this thing is in a bargain bin somewhere.

#87
Siham

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_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

Here's a full translation of the review.
(...)


Thanks A LOT for your translation ! :)

#88
commiedex

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I wonder if the problem is that Bioware didn't go far enough. Why didn't they go all out to make a 'Dragon May Cry' or 'Hawke of War'? I think it's the remaining RPG elements that are holding this game back. I hope in DA3 they remove those and concentrate on combo moves as it would make for a more visceral experience. As it is, we are still getting confused negativity from mega nerds who think RPG's need stats and compelling tactical gameplay rather than being able to press a button and watch something awesome happen.

#89
Phonantiphon

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I wonder if they should just give you the moon on a stick, because that might be easier given the fact that every one of you seems to want everything.

#90
Late Lord Fuj

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commiedex wrote...

I wonder if the problem is that Bioware didn't go far enough. Why didn't they go all out to make a 'Dragon May Cry' or 'Hawke of War'? I think it's the remaining RPG elements that are holding this game back. I hope in DA3 they remove those and concentrate on combo moves as it would make for a more visceral experience. As it is, we are still getting confused negativity from mega nerds who think RPG's need stats and compelling tactical gameplay rather than being able to press a button and watch something awesome happen.


Dragon Age 2 is on the right track. Numbers and words hurt my head and my feelings, and seriously, they should go. If I wanted to read and calculate, I wouldn't have dropped out of the elementary school. I feel good because Bioware is on the right track, they stopped discriminating people like me, who need their games to be grimdark, visceral, immersive, action packed cinnematic experiences, with thrills of pressing a button and watching something awesome happen before my very eyes, instead of traumatizing experiences that remind me of school chores, like being forced to read a book or adding and subtracting numbers.

#91
Late Lord Fuj

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commiedex wrote...

I wonder if the problem is that Bioware didn't go far enough. Why didn't they go all out to make a 'Dragon May Cry' or 'Hawke of War'? I think it's the remaining RPG elements that are holding this game back. I hope in DA3 they remove those and concentrate on combo moves as it would make for a more visceral experience. As it is, we are still getting confused negativity from mega nerds who think RPG's need stats and compelling tactical gameplay rather than being able to press a button and watch something awesome happen.


Dragon
Age 2 is on the right track. Numbers and words hurt my head and my
feelings, and seriously, they should go. If I wanted to read and
calculate, I wouldn't have dropped out of the elementary school. I feel
good because Bioware is on the right track, they stopped discriminating
people like me, who need their games to be grimdark, visceral,
immersive, action packed cinnematic experiences, with thrills of
pressing a button and watching something awesome happen before my very
eyes, instead of traumatizing experiences that remind me of school
chores, like being forced to read a book or adding and subtracting
numbers.

#92
thatbwoyblu

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The French didnt retreat on this one right here bwoys and girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#93
ejoslin

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Grey21 wrote...

Iwasdrunkbro wrote...

The bad reviews keep pouring in. Good. Maybe Bioware will finally listen to someone because theyre obviously NOT listening to their fans and SUPPORTERS!


This is incredibly unfair towards Bioware. Last year they made the exact changes to Mass Effect 2 and were praised for it by the same reviewers. Hailed as the best RPG of the year and a revolution for the genre.

I didn't like the changes but that doesn't make this any less unfair. Naturally they will lissen to these reviews and change Dragon Age 2 as well. But now these reviewers are taking the popular vote and join in on the bashing. They are to blame for this as well, for praising ME2 into the heavens.

I don't want these changes but this bashing is going to far. People are now hating for the sake of hating.


DAO and ME1 were very different games.  DAO got pretty much unaminous praise.  Reviews that said, "It's buggy, but buy it anyways because it is THAT good."  Do you honestly think just because marketing went about saying how bad DAO was that that made users and reviewers enjoy it less?

There was very little indication in the gaming press that people wanted DAO to take on more elements of ME2.  The only thing that surpriese me is that anyone is surprised at how mixed the reviews are for DA2.

#94
Dorian the Monk of Sune

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Teknor wrote...

It's stupid to whine about the lack of tactics when you play the game on normal.


No its not. Difficulty is not depth. A lack of difficulty can be an issue but that wasnt the problem with DA:O.

Also how can this game have too much combat compared to DA:O? Thats pretty bad. 

#95
Dorian the Monk of Sune

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commiedex wrote...

I wonder if the problem is that Bioware didn't go far enough. Why didn't they go all out to make a 'Dragon May Cry' or 'Hawke of War'? I think it's the remaining RPG elements that are holding this game back. I hope in DA3 they remove those and concentrate on combo moves as it would make for a more visceral experience. As it is, we are still getting confused negativity from mega nerds who think RPG's need stats and compelling tactical gameplay rather than being able to press a button and watch something awesome happen.


The would have never come close to Devil may Cry or God of War in such a short time even if they used Jade Empire's engine. The thing is DA:O was never a really tactical game on consoles because you couldnt issue movement commands when paused.

#96
Dorian the Monk of Sune

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iNixiRir wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Iwasdrunkbro wrote...

The bad reviews keep pouring in. Good. Maybe Bioware will finally listen to someone because theyre obviously NOT listening to their fans and SUPPORTERS!


Oh rly? Last time I checked anything above an 80% score was a damn good game... and by far the reviews are falling into the 80-95% range.


Don't you know... Bioware games need to have a >95% score to be considered good.


Nah EA games need those type of scores to make up for the payola

#97
Purgatious

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If bioware could release the mega-hit Mass effect 3, the most expensive MMO ever made and another 9/10 dragon age, well I would be impressed.

Though not even blizzard or activsion could do that, so its no surprise dragon age 2 didn't get the time and money.

Does that mean its not a good game by any stretch of the imagination? Hardly.

If you were expecting them take money from mass effects production or SW:TOR( aka EAs last attempt at getting a of slice of blizzards cake), well now that is a stretch of a very wild imagination.

#98
Anathemic

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Yes a little clarification on EA with DA:O.

DA:O was already done before EA bought BioWare out, they forced back the release date to do a console port.

#99
pompom500

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i've read tons of bull**** on this thread....

i'm french, and i can trustfully say that the bad DA 2 dubbing is the least of the (numerous) failures...

i've enjoyed the witcher, and the french dub was AWFUL (in fact i've more enjoyed the english/américan voice of géralt rather than polish one)

if DA 2 is a bad game it's because of itself : too simple, of it Jrpg like combat animation, of it lack of exploration, of it too weak dialog system for a so-called fantasy rpg , ect ...

no immersion, no depth, only fight, fight, fight ....

okay the majority of modern "rpg" are combat-oriented, but at least in games like the witcher or drakensang there is some room for ROLE PLAYING (you know, R P g ....)

if this game was badly rated in france it's because it was tested by true old-rpgers, in fact if the game have been tested by more "neutral" peoples i think it would be rated like 14/20 or so...

BUT we, true RPG players, we see (or SAW, for people like me) bioware like some RPG religious icon ... so we are uncompromising !

it's ok, bioware need money to survive, every companys does, and they need a wider audience, so they need streamlined games.... but i know i take 1000x more pleasure on planescape torment !

no voice ? uninportant, text dialog allow WAY more lines of text and with it WAY more complex dialog

no flashy combat ? unimportant , it's killing immersion anyway

and exploration, great depth of the caracter, no tons of blood to please teenage audience, rich universe (but the background was mainly pre-established by ADD&D, i'll give you that)

anyway this game will meet a great success because bioware know WHO will buy it, and who will not; and to be honest people like me, who regret old rpg mechanic (and black isle , and origin system, and of course old bioware) are a minority.

ITE MISSA EST

Modifié par pompom500, 11 mars 2011 - 05:47 .


#100
Mycrus Ironfist

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hehehe, i'm happy i didn't pre-order...

i actually had a feeling that the game was not really good with all the pre-marketing tactics going on..

discount bin this is..