830 réponses à ce sujet

[SlurpinTaxt]

I can't wait for the inevitable gaming crash coming this decade, and of course subsequent rebirth. It'll force gaming big shots like EA and BIOWARE to reassess their passion-devoid business strategies. Bioware drank the corporate kool-aid of death unfortunately, the dev-cycles for DA2 and ME2 were inadmissably short in this era of gaming. As a ME1 FANATIC, I was blinded to this fact. I went out and purchased ME2 day one, drooling over the cover art, spasmodically holding the disc as I popped it into the system, waiting in glorious anticipation with bated breaths. Then i played the game.

The first couple hours i can only describe with one word, meh. I should say that the only class i never bothered to play in ME1 was the soldier, because I figured why would I ever want to limit myself to shooting guns pew pew when its the most overdone archetype in possibly all of media ever? Apparently 63% of people disagree. http://www.gamasutra...Protagonist.php

So i get further and further into the game and I realize something, this game is too clean, and not in a good way. Its formulaic in the simplest possible way. [Intro], [Filler missions having nothing to do with the story], [end]. There is no natural story progression. Its like an essay written by a 12 year old. I had to make myself finish this game, which is something that should never happen in a BIOWARE RPG of all things. The thing that ticks me off the most is that ME1 was already light on the rp elements. Fanboys who claim ME2 was all innovation? Where are the new classes? Thats innovation there, not *shudders* the "streamlining" (read dumbification) of your orginal ips.

I am willing to bet that anyone who says the liked ME or DA sequels better than the originals either; A) Never played the originals, or Aren't old enough to appreciate the finer, and often more subtle things in life

[Nozybidaj]

InvaderErl wrote...

And Shepard's entire victory depends on Saren being a colossal idiot.

And ME2's entire premise and story depends on everyone in the galaxy, Shepard included, being a colossal idiot.  I'll take the lesser of 2 evils there.

[Zulu_DFA]

I've come to conclusion under which circumstances I'm not buying ME3.

If they put "M" rating on the box, it'll be an outright fraud, so... no deal.

[Tamahome560]

Not at all.

I will be getting a Collectors Edition as soon as it is announced.

[Rekkampum]

Tamahome560 wrote...

Not at all.

I will be getting a Collectors Edition as soon as it is announced.

I will be purchasing the "Sovereign" edition.

[Il Divo]

SlurpinTaxt wrote...

I am willing to bet that anyone who says the liked ME or DA sequels better than the originals either; A) Never played the originals, or Aren't old enough to appreciate the finer, and often more subtle things in life

I've played every Bioware RPG currently out, excluding DA2 which I have not had a chance to play. I also enjoyed them all, excluding Neverwinter Nights. I consider Mass Effect 2 to be my second favorite Bioware game, following Kotor. But despite all that, somehow I guess I'm not old enough to appreciate all the subtle aspects of gaming.

Modifié par Il Divo, 10 mars 2011 - 07:50 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Il Divo wrote...

SlurpinTaxt wrote...

I am willing to bet that anyone who says the liked ME or DA sequels better than the originals either; A) Never played the originals, or Aren't old enough to appreciate the finer, and often more subtle things in life

I've played every Bioware RPG currently out, excluding DA2 which I have not had a chance to play. I also enjoyed them all, excluding Neverwinter Nights. I consider Mass Effect 2 to be my second favorite Bioware game, following Kotor. But despite all that, somehow I guess I'm not old enough to appreciate all the subtle aspects of gaming.

or C) they look like a power rangers villain.

[Jaesun999]

Not really, no.

[OSUfan12121]

Day 1 buy for me. Loved ME2 and DA2(so far almost done with my first playthrough).

[SlurpinTaxt]

Il Divo wrote...


I've played every Bioware RPG currently out, excluding DA2 which I have not had a chance to play. I also enjoyed them all, excluding Neverwinter Nights. I consider Mass Effect 2 to be my second favorite Bioware game, following Kotor. But despite all that, somehow I guess I'm not old enough to appreciate all the subtle aspects of gaming.

If you've played the entire catalog like you say, and have ME2 as your number 2, then indeed you have come to the correct conclusion.

Age is not a constant for maturity. There are 45 year old women wearing bootylicious ass prints, who plaster their rooms with twilight and justin bieber paraphernalia, and there are 16 year old wine conoisseurs in Europe.

ME2 is not in and of itself a terrible game, but with Bioware's pedigree, the game for me is unplayable. I look at the familiar characters from ME1, and can't help but remember the amazing dialogue and, keyword here, FUN gameplay from the first game. And with that in mind, ME2 just doesnt stack up. The gameplay is a grind. There is no reason to play this game when the original is superior in every meanigful way. For me, the Mass effect universe ended with the first game. I have no hope for ME3 or DA3 with EA calling the shots. People like Christine Norman are a detriment to everything i love about the interactive medium.

[Whatever42]

SlurpinTaxt wrote...

Il Divo wrote...


I've played every Bioware RPG currently out, excluding DA2 which I have not had a chance to play. I also enjoyed them all, excluding Neverwinter Nights. I consider Mass Effect 2 to be my second favorite Bioware game, following Kotor. But despite all that, somehow I guess I'm not old enough to appreciate all the subtle aspects of gaming.

If you've played the entire catalog like you say, and have ME2 as your number 2, then indeed you have come to the correct conclusion.

Age is not a constant for maturity. There are 45 year old women wearing bootylicious ass prints, who plaster their rooms with twilight and justin bieber paraphernalia, and there are 16 year old wine conoisseurs in Europe.

ME2 is not in and of itself a terrible game, but with Bioware's pedigree, the game for me is unplayable. I look at the familiar characters from ME1, and can't help but remember the amazing dialogue and, keyword here, FUN gameplay from the first game. And with that in mind, ME2 just doesnt stack up. The gameplay is a grind. There is no reason to play this game when the original is superior in every meanigful way. For me, the Mass effect universe ended with the first game. I have no hope for ME3 or DA3 with EA calling the shots. People like Christine Norman are a detriment to everything i love about the interactive medium.

You're trying too hard. To be a good troll you can't be so over-the-top stupid and insulting. But keep practicing. Skill only comes with practice.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 10 mars 2011 - 08:54 .

[Thompson family]

SlurpinTaxt wrote...

Il Divo wrote...


...  I guess I'm not old enough to appreciate all the subtle aspects of gaming.

If you've played the entire catalog like you say, and have ME2 as your number 2, then indeed you have come to the correct conclusion.

Look, after the news about DA2, I had no particular desire to kick the RPG elitists while they were down. However, replies like this are exactly why they get no sympathy from me anymore.

[InvaderErl]

Nozybidaj wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

And Shepard's entire victory depends on Saren being a colossal idiot.

And ME2's entire premise and story depends on everyone in the galaxy, Shepard included, being a colossal idiot.  I'll take the lesser of 2 evils there.

Meh, the only group that really gets hit with the idiot train is the Council who play a supporting role. I think Saren making stupid decision after stupid decision hurts the piece far more than the moronic politicans who were moronic the first time around as well continuing to be moronic.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 10 mars 2011 - 09:03 .

[theSteeeeels]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
With grammar like that, you are in no position to belittle my intellect.

Besides, the original Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was great.  Mostly because it had Gene Wilder.  Not one of my favorites, but honestly, you can't go wrong with Gene Wilder.

lol dont into the grammar arguement its a forum not a school test.

AdmiralCheez wrote...
I prefer to play games and watch movies that I enjoy.  Seriously, if you had three hours to kill before going to work, what would you rather watch?  Hot Fuzz or Schindler's List?

this is the problem with your arguement. Movies like Lawrence of Arabia arent meant to be something you 'pop in ur dvd player before work'. youre meant to take your time with them, absorb it all in, let the content be the only focus on ur mind.

however lawrence of arabia is one of those films where u really do need to be in the mood to watch it, i do see what u mean. But the point is Mass Effect is more like Lawrence of Arabia than it is Mrs. Doubtfire, you have to take ur time with it, absorb everything its giving you. its not a game to just "pop in ur dvd player before work" (altho i have because its hella fun) youre meant to take ur time with it. I actually enjoyed running around the citadel, talking to different aliens and learning b ackgrounds of this world i was in, to me that was entertaining.

AdmiralCheez wrote...
ME3 should be masterfully done, but not to the point that I avoid playing it.  The gameplay should provide enough challenge and customization that a player's mental facilities are intrigued, but not so much that they get overloaded and the player shuts it off before they can appreciate it.  This happened to me with DA:O, which I knew was phenomenal in respect to the characters and world it presented, but couldn't play because the combat was clunky and confusing.  They just dumped everything on you without explaining it first, and you were expected to figure everything out by yourself.  With all these variables and no clear point of entry, I was stumped and I gave up.

If a game has good mechanics, you should be able to pick it up and start playing immediately.  If its not fun or engaging within the first twenty minutes or so, if the player doesn't feel rewarded for overcoming challenges, most people won't bother to continue.  More complicated gameplay is perfectly fine if you introduce mechanics one or two at a time, giving the player time to adjust to each one, but the core must remain simple.  You know, "a minute to learn, a lifetime to master?"

i understand. but you could argue that the more time u have to invest in something, the bigger the reward. with mass effect 1 i almost gave up during the citadel because it took me hours to find the right sections, but after completing the game its now one of my favourites ever. Mass effect 2 just flat out sucked in my eyes, and if it wasnt for my love of the first game i wouldnt of spent time finishing it.

oh btw, it shouldnt matter if 'most people wont bother to continue", because great games will require a learning curve, thats the problem, Mass Effect 2 was pick up and play, so as 'most people' wont lose attention and so increase their fan base at the expense of making a good game

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And finally, would you rather finish a game feeling BETTER or WORSE off than when you began playing it?

what do you think ?

my mindset towards ME1 is that im in the galatic space community, 200 years in the future.

my mindset towards ME2, is im playing a dumbed down shooter

see the thing is, altho watching some stupid comedy like Knocked up (which i like) is fun and easy, they are shallow and meaningless, theyre made to give you a cheap thrill

But movies like There Will Be Blood or The Pianst, theyre meant to stick with you, because they hit you on all levels. And the thing, you probably wont appreciate them within the first hour, hell maybe itll even need repeat viewings.

and im not even saying mass effect 1 is the movie equilevant to There Will Be Blood (but it more like it than MRS DOUBTFIRE! lol)........ mass effect 1 is more like Fight Club or Children of Men, depth,meaning + kick ass entertainment.

Modifié par theSteeeeels, 10 mars 2011 - 09:16 .

[Mynoot]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

Raizo wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Mynoot wrote...

Bioware's story telling has gone done more than a notch. ME1 was good, not as good as Baldur's Gate or DA:O, but certainly good for this particular franchise.

ME2 was really more about the combat.

I have my doubts about thier biggest project to date because of this.

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

ME2 >>> ME1. Would preorder ME3 now if I could.

Only in game play. The holes and logic inconsistancies in the story really show BW is either getting lazy or cheap on hiring good writers.

I could not disagree more profoundedly. Overall, the writing in ME2 easily outshone ME1. The only area ME1 beat ME2 was in the main mission story telling and most of tthe problem there was editting and mission design, not writing.

I agree.

Then you weren't paying attention.

That's not meant as an insult.  My first time through the game I thought it was great too.  The glitz and flash and blatant manipulation of the adrenal glands got me wrapped up enough that my hindbrain was the primary location of my experience.

My first time through.

But if you sit back and actually think about the story in ME2, it falls apart like damp rice paper.

This is how it was for me too, but even on my first play through, I sat and wondered how they managed to resurrect a body subjected to the decompression of space, being turned to ash as it re-entered an atmosphere and went splat at 1000kph.

And Sheperd is a vegetable (a bamboo shoot to be precise) throughout the game.  He's flat and has no life.

If I had written it, with the instructions they were making it a trilogy and wanted to restart the character from scratch in ME2, I would have killed him at the end of ME1, rezzed him at the start of ME2, no lead-in scene, with flashbacks to his prior life as he starts to remember what went before, with a memory of Miranda being there at the very end to ensure he's preserved through death. There could be a lot of RP dialog as he talks to Miranda, Tali, Garrus and Jacob that would fill in what he missed and perhaps provoke some introspection. Even the others could provide some RP about the experience of death that could do have the same effect.

At least then they would have a body to work with, not fine ash spread over 1/2 a planet. Then you could more seemlessly work in that Cerb recovered him from the Shadow Broker, Wilson was paid by the Shadow Broker to help re-recover the SB's investment, etc.

Modifié par Mynoot, 10 mars 2011 - 09:37 .

[SlurpinTaxt]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...


You're trying too hard. To be a good troll you can't be so over-the-top stupid and insulting. But keep practicing. Skill only comes with practice.

All im saying is, if you liked mass effect 2 over mass effect 1, then you liked call of duty better than mass effect 2. Nothing inherently wrong with that, just that your ruining it for the rest of us by telling bioware and ea that this is the crap you want.

The problem with ME2 is really something that is plaguing the entire industry, they are appealing to the new and emerging audience, the 5th 6th and 7th graders who want mommy to buy them a cool videogame thats not too hard, a videogame that will let them do cool things like go to a ****** bar and bang a talking gas mask. Its a giant middlefinger to the people who made bioware big in the first place.

Until bioware reasseses where their loyalties lie, they will not see another red cent from me. Maybe this is ok to them, so be it. Ill take my hard earned dollars elsewhere, to people who actually care about quality over quantity. Its sad really, Bioware used to be the little guy making quality games, now theyre a faceless corporation that couldnt care less.

I bet you ray and greg have never touched this game.

[Whatever42]

SlurpinTaxt wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...


You're trying too hard. To be a good troll you can't be so over-the-top stupid and insulting. But keep practicing. Skill only comes with practice.

All im saying is, if you liked mass effect 2 over mass effect 1, then you liked call of duty better than mass effect 2. Nothing inherently wrong with that, just that your ruining it for the rest of us by telling bioware and ea that this is the crap you want.

The problem with ME2 is really something that is plaguing the entire industry, they are appealing to the new and emerging audience, the 5th 6th and 7th graders who want mommy to buy them a cool videogame thats not too hard, a videogame that will let them do cool things like go to a ****** bar and bang a talking gas mask. Its a giant middlefinger to the people who made bioware big in the first place.

Until bioware reasseses where their loyalties lie, they will not see another red cent from me. Maybe this is ok to them, so be it. Ill take my hard earned dollars elsewhere, to people who actually care about quality over quantity. Its sad really, Bioware used to be the little guy making quality games, now theyre a faceless corporation that couldnt care less.

I bet you ray and greg have never touched this game.

yadda yadda... you're still trying too hard. You think that your transparent trolling is going to cover up your transparent trolling? There are few very good trolls on these boards. I suggest you take notes. You're only embarrassing yourself.

[BatarianBob]

DnVill wrote...

I've given up Blizzard after SC2.

  Starcraft 2 is damn near perfect except for the story.

That "except" would be a big deal in an RPG, not so much in an RTS.

[N7Infernox]

SlurpinTaxt wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...


You're trying too hard. To be a good troll you can't be so over-the-top stupid and insulting. But keep practicing. Skill only comes with practice.

All im saying is, if you liked mass effect 2 over mass effect 1, then you liked call of duty better than mass effect 2. Nothing inherently wrong with that, just that your ruining it for the rest of us by telling bioware and ea that this is the crap you want.

The problem with ME2 is really something that is plaguing the entire industry, they are appealing to the new and emerging audience, the 5th 6th and 7th graders who want mommy to buy them a cool videogame thats not too hard, a videogame that will let them do cool things like go to a ****** bar and bang a talking gas mask. Its a giant middlefinger to the people who made bioware big in the first place.

Until bioware reasseses where their loyalties lie, they will not see another red cent from me. Maybe this is ok to them, so be it. Ill take my hard earned dollars elsewhere, to people who actually care about quality over quantity. Its sad really, Bioware used to be the little guy making quality games, now theyre a faceless corporation that couldnt care less.

I bet you ray and greg have never touched this game.

uh... REALLY?
I was going to highlight some of the crazy stuff you just said, but then I realized I would have almost highlighted the whole thing.

[SlurpinTaxt]

Seeing what happened to Bioware after the ea takeover, Im scared for blizzard. However Sc2 is the perfect rts no doubt about it. I have reservations for the expansions however

[Mynoot]

SlurpinTaxt wrote...
The problem with ME2 is really something that is plaguing the entire industry, they are appealing to the new and emerging audience, the 5th 6th and 7th graders who want mommy to buy them a cool videogame thats not too hard, a videogame that will let them do cool things like go to a ****** bar and bang a talking gas mask. Its a giant middlefinger to the people who made bioware big in the first place.

I didn't find ME1 any harder than ME2. In fact, the hardest part was trying to keep my inventory space available to take on more stuff. Some of the fights in ME1 were hard, but so too were some of the fights in ME2.

However, some of the idiocy I hated in ME1 were having your tech skills averaged out over the team, affecting your decryption or electronic, instead of your top tech being the one that handled the task.  The merry-go-round of bars when decrypting was dumb.

My gripe is the story and character depth dropoff from ME1 to ME2.

I bet you ray and greg have never touched this game.

Probably not. They are running a business and only have time to see developers show the highlights.

[Thompson family]

SlurpinTaxt wrote...


All im saying is, if you liked mass effect 2 over mass effect 1, then you liked call of duty better than mass effect 2.

etc.

In any other context, this post would sound like bragging:

Have you ever played "Jutland," the World War I naval simulation by niche publisher Iron Eagle Studios — in campaign mode?

I have.

Have you every played "Medieval II: Total War" grand campaigns where you maximize the difficulty, turn off all automated management, set your own tax levels, pick your own town garrisons, order the construction of individual buildings throughout your "empire," built, upgraded AND micomanaged your armies in EVERY battle, even the little bandit killings — using horse archers, the most micormanagement-intensive units in the game, and written an extensive guide to their control and use? Well except for those times when you won the grand campaign playing as DENMARK?

I have.

Have you ever played either IL-2 Sturmovik on full difficulty, where you have to set your own prop pitch, or Rise of Flight, the World War I flight sim, where you have to watch how fast you dive because if you go too fast and your propeller spins too quickly, you burn up your engine?

I have.

Have you ever played a full campaign of Silent Hunter 4, the World War II submarine sim, on full difficulty, where you have to take a protractor and calculate your own torpedo firing solutions?

I have.

Have you ever played any games in the Call of Duty series?

I have NOT.

Here's a bulletin to RPG Elitists: Nobody's impressed.

You can make a wonderful character and equip him or her with all the right accessories. Well goody for you. I've got an aunt who does beautiful needlepoint. Guess which, of the two, takes more skill?

Go back to your knitting, old hens.

Modifié par Thompson family, 10 mars 2011 - 10:08 .

[SlurpinTaxt]

Mynoot wrote...

However, some of the idiocy I hated in ME1 were having your tech skills averaged out over the team, affecting your decryption or electronic, instead of your top tech being the one that handled the task.  The merry-go-round of bars when decrypting was dumb.

My gripe is the story and character depth dropoff from ME1 to ME2.

I had forgotten about that, definitely irksome, but a small issue in my eyes. The halfwit dialogue and plot inconsistencies are also my biggest problems with where the series went.

Talking about his hard coredness with medieval 2 etc etc.. I never claimed to be the most hardcore gamer on the planet. Its just that while playing ME2, i found myself doing the same routine time and again. Lift bad guy, shoot bad guy, shockwave, reload, rinse and repeat. In the first ME, i could at least lift cover. In me2 its all nailed down. Feels like a step back, as do several other things like shared cooldown timer for abilities, and physical ammo.